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Kathi Jones

15-02-2005 08:27 PM

BWB procedure

I made the orange marmalade recipe (using seville oranges) the other day
from the Bernardin website www.homecanning.com and the following is taken
from the instructions:

"Cover canner; bring water to a boil. At altitudes up to 1000 ft (305 m),
process -boil filled jars - 10 minutes.* When processing time is complete,
turn heat off and remove canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer
rise to surface (3 to 5 minutes) - remove jars without tilting. Cool jars
upright, undisturbed 24 hours. DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"

The part in italics is new to me. I can't say I've ever seen instructions
that say to leave the jar in the water until the boil stops. Usually I
remove the jars as soon as the 10 minutes is up. But anyway, I did as
directed and was really disappointed - the jars were sealed but there was no
'plink' ! I guess it happened under water and I didn't get to hear it. Why
would I want take all the fun out of making jam by leaving the jars in the
water and missing out on the plink?! ;-)

The marmalade turned out beautifully by the way - all the peel is perfectly
suspended, which is new for me, usually it floats to the top.

Kathi

The Joneses

15-02-2005 09:42 PM

Kathi Jones wrote:

> I made the orange marmalade recipe (using seville oranges) the other day
> from the Bernardin website www.homecanning.com and the following is taken
> from the instructions:
> "Cover canner; bring water to a boil. At altitudes up to 1000 ft (305 m),
> process -boil filled jars - 10 minutes.* When processing time is complete,
> turn heat off and remove canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer
> rise to surface (3 to 5 minutes) - remove jars without tilting. Cool jars
> upright, undisturbed 24 hours. DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
> The part in italics is new to me. I can't say I've ever seen instructions
> that say to leave the jar in the water until the boil stops. Usually I
> remove the jars as soon as the 10 minutes is up. But anyway, I did as
> directed and was really disappointed - the jars were sealed but there was no
> 'plink' ! I guess it happened under water and I didn't get to hear it. Why
> would I want take all the fun out of making jam by leaving the jars in the
> water and missing out on the plink?! ;-)
> The marmalade turned out beautifully by the way - all the peel is perfectly
> suspended, which is new for me, usually it floats to the top.

Great news on your marmelade. What they are saying is just basic good sense to
me. Turn off the boiling water, then lift out the jars. If one tries to take out
jars with the water boiling like the devil you could burn yourself and fog up
your glasses. Did you wait for the water to *cool* ? Sometimes I get a quiet
plink too. No worries as long as the lid seals, but not emotionally satisfying.
Edrena

Kathi Jones

15-02-2005 09:57 PM

"The Joneses" > wrote in message
...
> Kathi Jones wrote:
>
> > I made the orange marmalade recipe (using seville oranges) the other day
> > from the Bernardin website www.homecanning.com and the following is
taken
> > from the instructions:
> > "Cover canner; bring water to a boil. At altitudes up to 1000 ft (305
m),
> > process -boil filled jars - 10 minutes.* When processing time is
complete,
> > turn heat off and remove canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no
longer
> > rise to surface (3 to 5 minutes) - remove jars without tilting. Cool
jars
> > upright, undisturbed 24 hours. DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
> > The part in italics is new to me. I can't say I've ever seen
instructions
> > that say to leave the jar in the water until the boil stops. Usually I
> > remove the jars as soon as the 10 minutes is up. But anyway, I did as
> > directed and was really disappointed - the jars were sealed but there
was no
> > 'plink' ! I guess it happened under water and I didn't get to hear it.
Why
> > would I want take all the fun out of making jam by leaving the jars in
the
> > water and missing out on the plink?! ;-)
> > The marmalade turned out beautifully by the way - all the peel is
perfectly
> > suspended, which is new for me, usually it floats to the top.
>
> Great news on your marmelade. What they are saying is just basic good
sense to
> me. Turn off the boiling water, then lift out the jars. If one tries to
take out
> jars with the water boiling like the devil you could burn yourself and fog
up
> your glasses. Did you wait for the water to *cool* ? Sometimes I get a
quiet
> plink too. No worries as long as the lid seals, but not emotionally
satisfying.
> Edrena
>
>

Hi Edrena,

Yes, I thought that perhaps that little extra instruction may have been
there for 'safety purposes'. I usually risk serious burning and lift the
lid off a rapid boil, blow the steam away and extract jars. So yes, it
could be there so I wont get burned. But to see it say wait until all boil
has stopped before removing jars, means that the 10 minute BWB is alot
longer than 10 minutes, don't you think? Perhaps it's Bernardin's way to
make sure that even a novice will BWB long enough.

See, this whole thing was quite an experience...and a good one for my dog.
When I do it the usual way, I pull the jars out of a rapid boil and they
plink on the counter - at which point my wimpy dog runs for cover because
she's afraid of the noise. This time around there was no plink, an the dog
stayed put, snoozing on the couch as usual.

I just really missed the plink....

Kathi

The Joneses

15-02-2005 10:05 PM

Kathi Jones wrote:

>
> Hi Edrena,
>
> Yes, I thought that perhaps that little extra instruction may have been
> there for 'safety purposes'. I usually risk serious burning and lift the
> lid off a rapid boil, blow the steam away and extract jars. So yes, it
> could be there so I wont get burned. But to see it say wait until all boil
> has stopped before removing jars, means that the 10 minute BWB is alot
> longer than 10 minutes, don't you think? Perhaps it's Bernardin's way to
> make sure that even a novice will BWB long enough.
> See, this whole thing was quite an experience...and a good one for my dog.
> When I do it the usual way, I pull the jars out of a rapid boil and they
> plink on the counter - at which point my wimpy dog runs for cover because
> she's afraid of the noise. This time around there was no plink, an the dog
> stayed put, snoozing on the couch as usual.
> I just really missed the plink....

It's a safety thing for sure. If you BWB things too long ya might ruin them.
Just wait a min or two for the boiling to subside so you won't burn your fingers
and splash on your precious self. I have cats that can't figger out why I bother
cooking stuff anyway. I plop jars on a wooden board with a ridge to catch water
drips, out of draft of air conditioner or fan. George puts his on folded towels.
Newspapers work good. Don't want the jars to cool too quickly, might break or
ruin seal. If set on very cool surface like marble or granite or steel, might
break, scare dog to peeing in the house.
Edrena

Kathi Jones

15-02-2005 10:38 PM

"The Joneses" > wrote in message
...
> Kathi Jones wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Edrena,
> >
> > Yes, I thought that perhaps that little extra instruction may have been
> > there for 'safety purposes'. I usually risk serious burning and lift
the
> > lid off a rapid boil, blow the steam away and extract jars. So yes, it
> > could be there so I wont get burned. But to see it say wait until all
boil
> > has stopped before removing jars, means that the 10 minute BWB is alot
> > longer than 10 minutes, don't you think? Perhaps it's Bernardin's way
to
> > make sure that even a novice will BWB long enough.
> > See, this whole thing was quite an experience...and a good one for my
dog.
> > When I do it the usual way, I pull the jars out of a rapid boil and they
> > plink on the counter - at which point my wimpy dog runs for cover
because
> > she's afraid of the noise. This time around there was no plink, an the
dog
> > stayed put, snoozing on the couch as usual.
> > I just really missed the plink....
>
> It's a safety thing for sure. If you BWB things too long ya might ruin
them.
> Just wait a min or two for the boiling to subside so you won't burn your
fingers
> and splash on your precious self. I have cats that can't figger out why I
bother
> cooking stuff anyway. I plop jars on a wooden board with a ridge to catch
water
> drips, out of draft of air conditioner or fan. George puts his on folded
towels.
> Newspapers work good. Don't want the jars to cool too quickly, might break
or
> ruin seal. If set on very cool surface like marble or granite or steel,
might
> break, scare dog to peeing in the house.
> Edrena
>
>

LOL - she's not peed in the house - yet!

Yep, I'm gonna stick to my usual - BWB 10 minutes, risk serious burning to
gain satisfying plink, remove jars to folded towel on counter and freak the
dog out!

After all, we're supposed to be having fun, right?

Kathi

Melba's Jammin'

17-02-2005 01:55 PM

In article >, "Kathi Jones"
> wrote:

> I made the orange marmalade recipe (using seville oranges) the other
> day from the Bernardin website www.homecanning.com and the following
> is taken from the instructions:
>
> "Cover canner; bring water to a boil. At altitudes up to 1000 ft (305
> m), process -boil filled jars - 10 minutes.* When processing time is
> complete, turn heat off and remove canner lid. When boil subsides -
> bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to 5 minutes) - remove jars
> without tilting. Cool jars upright, undisturbed 24 hours. DO NOT
> RETIGHTEN screw bands"

Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
--
-Barb
<www.jamlady.eboard.com>; Sam pics added 2-7-05
"I got the motive, which is money; and the body, which is dead!" - Rod
Steiger as Sheriff Gillespie, "In the Heat of the Night," 1967.

Melba's Jammin'

17-02-2005 01:55 PM

Loki	17-02-2005 08:45 PM

il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:55:06 -0600, Melba's Jammin' ha scritto:

> In article >, "Kathi Jones"
> > wrote:
>
> > I made the orange marmalade recipe (using seville oranges) the other
> > day from the Bernardin website www.homecanning.com and the following
> > is taken from the instructions:
> >
> > "Cover canner; bring water to a boil. At altitudes up to 1000 ft (305
> > m), process -boil filled jars - 10 minutes.* When processing time is
> > complete, turn heat off and remove canner lid. When boil subsides -
> > bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to 5 minutes) - remove jars
> > without tilting. Cool jars upright, undisturbed 24 hours. DO NOT
> > RETIGHTEN screw bands"
>
> Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.

Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
overtightened would crack the jars.
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

Loki	17-02-2005 08:45 PM

Loki	17-02-2005 08:45 PM

Kathi Jones

17-02-2005 09:44 PM

"Loki" > wrote in message
...
> il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 07:55:06 -0600, Melba's Jammin' ha scritto:
>
> > In article >, "Kathi Jones"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > I made the orange marmalade recipe (using seville oranges) the other
> > > day from the Bernardin website www.homecanning.com and the following
> > > is taken from the instructions:
> > >
> > > "Cover canner; bring water to a boil. At altitudes up to 1000 ft (305
> > > m), process -boil filled jars - 10 minutes.* When processing time is
> > > complete, turn heat off and remove canner lid. When boil subsides -
> > > bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to 5 minutes) - remove jars
> > > without tilting. Cool jars upright, undisturbed 24 hours. DO NOT
> > > RETIGHTEN screw bands"
> >
> > Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
>
> Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
> overtightened would crack the jars.
> --
> Cheers,
> Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]
>

Hi Loki,

no, it was the "When processing time is complete, turn heat off and remove
canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to 5
minutes) - remove jars " part that was new to me. I usually lift the lid
and pull the jars out while boiling water and steam fill the kitchen. Like
Barb suggested, it's prolly there for safety's (idiot's) sake.

Kathi

Kathi Jones

17-02-2005 09:44 PM

Kathi Jones

17-02-2005 09:44 PM

Loki	24-02-2005 10:19 PM

il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:44:54 -0500, "Kathi Jones" ha scritto:

>
> "Loki" > wrote in messag
> > > > DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
> > >
> > > Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
> >
> > Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
> > overtightened would crack the jars.
>
> Hi Loki,
>
> no, it was the "When processing time is complete, turn heat off and remove
> canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to 5
> minutes) - remove jars " part that was new to me. I usually lift the lid
> and pull the jars out while boiling water and steam fill the kitchen. Like
> Barb suggested, it's prolly there for safety's (idiot's) sake.

Well, you must like tempting a steam scald, which has waay more
latent heat in it than mere boiling water. Dare I say safety is not
an idiot thing but sensible thing... With my glasses, steam is a
problem purely for it blinding factor. And why stew my hands if I can
watch tv and do it later in comfort. :-)

--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

George Shirley

24-02-2005 10:57 PM

Loki wrote:
> il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:44:54 -0500, "Kathi Jones" ha scritto:
>
>
>>"Loki" > wrote in messag
>>
>>>>>DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
>>>>
>>>>Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
>>>
>>>Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
>>>overtightened would crack the jars.
>>
>>Hi Loki,
>>
>>no, it was the "When processing time is complete, turn heat off and remove
>>canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to 5
>>minutes) - remove jars " part that was new to me. I usually lift the lid
>>and pull the jars out while boiling water and steam fill the kitchen. Like
>>Barb suggested, it's prolly there for safety's (idiot's) sake.
>
>
> Well, you must like tempting a steam scald, which has waay more
> latent heat in it than mere boiling water. Dare I say safety is not
> an idiot thing but sensible thing... With my glasses, steam is a
> problem purely for it blinding factor. And why stew my hands if I can
> watch tv and do it later in comfort. :-)
>
I've been doing it this way for nearly fifty years and never been burned
or blinded by steam. When timer goes off, turn off the heat, lift the
lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
immediately. Leave there for 24 hours, test the seal, mark the jars as
to content and date, wipe down with a damp cloth and store in a dark,
cool place. Seldom ever have a broken jar and the jars always seal good.

George

Kathi Jones

25-02-2005 12:38 AM

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
. ..
> Loki wrote:
> > il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:44:54 -0500, "Kathi Jones" ha scritto:
> >
> >
> >>"Loki" > wrote in messag
> >>
> >>>>>DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
> >>>>
> >>>>Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
> >>>
> >>>Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
> >>>overtightened would crack the jars.
> >>
> >>Hi Loki,
> >>
> >>no, it was the "When processing time is complete, turn heat off and
remove
> >>canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to
5
> >>minutes) - remove jars " part that was new to me. I usually lift the
lid
> >>and pull the jars out while boiling water and steam fill the kitchen.
Like
> >>Barb suggested, it's prolly there for safety's (idiot's) sake.
> >
> >
> > Well, you must like tempting a steam scald, which has waay more
> > latent heat in it than mere boiling water. Dare I say safety is not
> > an idiot thing but sensible thing... With my glasses, steam is a
> > problem purely for it blinding factor. And why stew my hands if I can
> > watch tv and do it later in comfort. :-)
> >
> I've been doing it this way for nearly fifty years and never been burned
> or blinded by steam. When timer goes off, turn off the heat, lift the
> lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
> (I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
> tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
> immediately. Leave there for 24 hours, test the seal, mark the jars as
> to content and date, wipe down with a damp cloth and store in a dark,
> cool place. Seldom ever have a broken jar and the jars always seal good.
>
> George

yep George, me too. That's just how I do it. I just wondered what all the
"When processing time is complete....." part was about. I figure it is
there for dewbies and for safety's sake. And doing it this way means you
get no ping - which is very disappointing! And I've never had a scald

Kathi

zxcvbob

25-02-2005 12:47 AM

Kathi Jones wrote:
> "George Shirley" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Loki wrote:
>>
>>>il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:44:54 -0500, "Kathi Jones" ha scritto:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Loki" > wrote in messag
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
>>>>>overtightened would crack the jars.
>>>>
>>>>Hi Loki,
>>>>
>>>>no, it was the "When processing time is complete, turn heat off and
>
> remove
>
>>>>canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to
>
> 5
>
>>>>minutes) - remove jars " part that was new to me. I usually lift the
>
> lid
>
>>>>and pull the jars out while boiling water and steam fill the kitchen.
>
> Like
>
>>>>Barb suggested, it's prolly there for safety's (idiot's) sake.
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, you must like tempting a steam scald, which has waay more
>>>latent heat in it than mere boiling water. Dare I say safety is not
>>>an idiot thing but sensible thing... With my glasses, steam is a
>>>problem purely for it blinding factor. And why stew my hands if I can
>>>watch tv and do it later in comfort. :-)
>>>
>>
>>I've been doing it this way for nearly fifty years and never been burned
>>or blinded by steam. When timer goes off, turn off the heat, lift the
>>lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
>>(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
>>tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
>>immediately. Leave there for 24 hours, test the seal, mark the jars as
>>to content and date, wipe down with a damp cloth and store in a dark,
>>cool place. Seldom ever have a broken jar and the jars always seal good.
>>
>>George
>
>
> yep George, me too. That's just how I do it. I just wondered what all the
> "When processing time is complete....." part was about. I figure it is
> there for dewbies and for safety's sake. And doing it this way means you
> get no ping - which is very disappointing! And I've never had a scald
>
> Kathi
>
>

I turn the fire off, remove the lid slowly (tipping it away from me),
and wait just a few seconds for the steam to clear. Then lift the jars
out one-at-a-time and set them on the countertop on a towel, and I blot
the water off the top so it doesn't leave a white film on top.

Bob

George Shirley

25-02-2005 02:56 AM

Kathi Jones wrote:
> "George Shirley" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Loki wrote:
>>
>>>il Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:44:54 -0500, "Kathi Jones" ha scritto:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Loki" > wrote in messag
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>DO NOT RETIGHTEN screw bands"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sounds like CYA and The Idiot Factor to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe some people don't know that metal contracts when cooling and if
>>>>>overtightened would crack the jars.
>>>>
>>>>Hi Loki,
>>>>
>>>>no, it was the "When processing time is complete, turn heat off and
>
> remove
>
>>>>canner lid. When boil subsides - bubbles no longer rise to surface (3 to
>
> 5
>
>>>>minutes) - remove jars " part that was new to me. I usually lift the
>
> lid
>
>>>>and pull the jars out while boiling water and steam fill the kitchen.
>
> Like
>
>>>>Barb suggested, it's prolly there for safety's (idiot's) sake.
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, you must like tempting a steam scald, which has waay more
>>>latent heat in it than mere boiling water. Dare I say safety is not
>>>an idiot thing but sensible thing... With my glasses, steam is a
>>>problem purely for it blinding factor. And why stew my hands if I can
>>>watch tv and do it later in comfort. :-)
>>>
>>
>>I've been doing it this way for nearly fifty years and never been burned
>>or blinded by steam. When timer goes off, turn off the heat, lift the
>>lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
>>(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
>>tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
>>immediately. Leave there for 24 hours, test the seal, mark the jars as
>>to content and date, wipe down with a damp cloth and store in a dark,
>>cool place. Seldom ever have a broken jar and the jars always seal good.
>>
>>George
>
>
> yep George, me too. That's just how I do it. I just wondered what all the
> "When processing time is complete....." part was about. I figure it is
> there for dewbies and for safety's sake. And doing it this way means you
> get no ping - which is very disappointing! And I've never had a scald
>
> Kathi
>
>
Naw, it's CYA for the publisher and author of the books/pamphlets. They
don't want to be sued when some dumbass drops a jar back into the
boiling water and gets a big burn. I make my living as a safety
consultant and have been an expert witness too many times on consumer
safety lawsuits. I finally quit taking them on, it isn't worth the money
to me.

George

George

David J. Braunegg

25-02-2005 05:58 PM

Am I the only one who puts the jars on a large cake rack to drain and cool
instead of on a towel?

Dave

>>>lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
>>>(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
>>>tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping

>>>George

> and wait just a few seconds for the steam to clear. Then lift the jars
> out one-at-a-time and set them on the countertop on a towel, and I blot

> Bob

The Joneses

25-02-2005 10:13 PM

> >>>lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
> >>>(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
> >>>tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
>
> >>>George
>
> > and wait just a few seconds for the steam to clear. Then lift the jars
> > out one-at-a-time and set them on the countertop on a towel, and I blot
>
> > Bob

"David J. Braunegg" wrote:

> Am I the only one who puts the jars on a large cake rack to drain and cool
> instead of on a towel?
>
> Dave
>

Yes, and I've called the authorities to put your unamerican self away; ;). I
put mine on a big wooden carving board with a drip rail.
Edrena

George Shirley

25-02-2005 10:43 PM

The Joneses wrote:
>>>>>lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
>>>>>(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
>>>>>tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
>>
>>>>>George
>>
>>>and wait just a few seconds for the steam to clear. Then lift the jars
>>>out one-at-a-time and set them on the countertop on a towel, and I blot
>>
>>>Bob
>
>
> "David J. Braunegg" wrote:
>
>
>>Am I the only one who puts the jars on a large cake rack to drain and cool
>>instead of on a towel?
>>
>>Dave
>>
>
>
> Yes, and I've called the authorities to put your unamerican self away; ;). I
> put mine on a big wooden carving board with a drip rail.
> Edrena
>
>
>
You just a heathern Edrena, just a heathern.

George

ellen wickberg

26-02-2005 12:44 AM

David J. Braunegg wrote:
> Am I the only one who puts the jars on a large cake rack to drain and cool
> instead of on a towel?
>
> Dave
>
>
>>>>lid and set aside. Use the jar lifter and lift out the jars one by one
>>>>(I can't handle the rack full of full jars anymore) and set on a folded
>>>>tea towel, carefully separated, to cool. You should hear the lids ping
>
>
>>>>George
>
>
>
>>and wait just a few seconds for the steam to clear. Then lift the jars
>>out one-at-a-time and set them on the countertop on a towel, and I blot
>
>
>>Bob
>
>
>
I do both, not at the same time of course. The whole point, in my
view, is to prevent the jars from coming into contact with a solid
material that transfers heat rapidly and therefore might crack the glass
Ellen

The Joneses

26-02-2005 01:24 AM

George Shirley wrote:

> > Yes, and I've called the authorities to put your unamerican self away; ;). I
> > put mine on a big wooden carving board with a drip rail.
> > Edrena
> >
> You just a heathern Edrena, just a heathern.
> George

You jist wait 'til I start burnin' them oakleaves...
My mesclun salad is up, the dill is up, the tarragon looks good and the oregano is
gangbusters. The weeds mostly vansquished and it ain't frosted tho it did get right
cold last night. I measure my farm in inches. The Bay Tree is is bloom.
Edrena

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