Hi,

I've a number of cast iron pieces on hand - mostly Lodge, one
(heart-shaped) Le Creuscet Dutch oven. I'd like to make regular old
fondue in the pots because they retain heat so well. I have a few
questions, though.

1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore my
first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping. Will
the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage the
seasoning on the Lodge?

2 - What's the best way to maintain heat? Is the pot, itself, enough?
Should I heat a trivet? Perhaps a candle under a supporting rack could
maintain some heat?

3 - Any other advice, especially for replicating this when camping?

Thanks!
Phil

(East Bay) Phil wrote:

> 2 - What's the best way to maintain heat? Is the pot, itself, enough?
> Should I heat a trivet? Perhaps a candle under a supporting rack could
> maintain some heat?
>

The pot itself will hold heat for a short period of time, maybe
a half hour or so. Anything beyond that and you'll need a heat
source to keep it warm. Maybe you could keep it close to, but
not directly over, the campfire.

I wouldn't use a candle on anything other than camping gear
as they leave all sorts of nasty carbon deposits. I'd use
sterno instead.

--
Reg

(East Bay) Phil wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've a number of cast iron pieces on hand - mostly Lodge, one
> (heart-shaped) Le Creuscet Dutch oven. I'd like to make regular old
> fondue in the pots because they retain heat so well. I have a few
> questions, though.
>
> 1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore my
> first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
> serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping. Will
> the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage the
> seasoning on the Lodge?

What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping and aren't
cooked. You've never done this, have you?

> 2 - What's the best way to maintain heat? Is the pot, itself, enough?
> Should I heat a trivet? Perhaps a candle under a supporting rack could
> maintain some heat?

The pot isn't enough. A trivet isn't enough. We used cast iron pots in
my restaurants. Always either an alcohol burner or a Sterno. Nothing
else portable like that will do.

> 3 - Any other advice, especially for replicating this when camping?

Go find a recipe rather than going off half-cocked. Find out what you're
really discussing.

Pastorio

"East Bay Phil" > wrote in
message news:20060330122841.32bdcef7@localhost...
> Hi,
>
> I've a number of cast iron pieces on hand - mostly Lodge, one
> (heart-shaped) Le Creuscet Dutch oven. I'd like to make regular old
> fondue in the pots because they retain heat so well. I have a few
> questions, though.
>
> 1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore my
> first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
> serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping. Will
> the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage the
> seasoning on the Lodge?
>
> 2 - What's the best way to maintain heat? Is the pot, itself, enough?
> Should I heat a trivet? Perhaps a candle under a supporting rack could
> maintain some heat?
>
> 3 - Any other advice, especially for replicating this when camping?
>
> Thanks!
> Phil

If your CI is well seasoned the food acids should not hurt it. I tried
straight Hydrochloric acid on a well seasoned skillet to see if there was an
effect --there wasn't.
--
Lefty

Life is for learning
The worst I ever had was wonderful

> > 1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore
> > my first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
> > serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping.
> > Will the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage
> > the seasoning on the Lodge?
>
> What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping and aren't
> cooked. You've never done this, have you?

Wine, lemon juice....

> > 2 - What's the best way to maintain heat? Is the pot, itself,
> > enough? Should I heat a trivet? Perhaps a candle under a
> > supporting rack could maintain some heat?
>
> The pot isn't enough. A trivet isn't enough. We used cast iron pots
> in my restaurants. Always either an alcohol burner or a Sterno.
> Nothing else portable like that will do.

OK

> > 3 - Any other advice, especially for replicating this when camping?
>
> Go find a recipe rather than going off half-cocked. Find out what
> you're really discussing.

Wow. Who ****ed in your coffee?

(East Bay) Phil wrote:

>>>1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore
>>>my first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
>>>serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping.
>>>Will the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage
>>>the seasoning on the Lodge?
>>
>>What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping and aren't
>>cooked. You've never done this, have you?
>
> Wine, lemon juice....

Nice non-answer. So you haven't done this. I thought not.

The pot contains hot oil. One cooks plain cubes of meat in it. Period.

No wine. No lemon juice. No acid ingredients. Just oil in the pot. Just
meat cooked in it.

>>>2 - What's the best way to maintain heat? Is the pot, itself,
>>>enough? Should I heat a trivet? Perhaps a candle under a
>>>supporting rack could maintain some heat?
>>
>>The pot isn't enough. A trivet isn't enough. We used cast iron pots
>>in my restaurants. Always either an alcohol burner or a Sterno.
>>Nothing else portable like that will do.
>
> OK
>
>>>3 - Any other advice, especially for replicating this when camping?
>>
>>Go find a recipe rather than going off half-cocked. Find out what
>>you're really discussing.
>
> Wow. Who ****ed in your coffee?

Almost any fool who asks stupid questions about things they know nothing
about rather than taking a moment to do even the most fleeting research.

Questions...?

Pastorio

On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:59:12 -0500, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:

>(East Bay) Phil wrote:
>
>>>>1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore
>>>>my first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
>>>>serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping.
>>>>Will the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage
>>>>the seasoning on the Lodge?
>>>
>>>What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping and aren't
>>>cooked. You've never done this, have you?
>>
>> Wine, lemon juice....
>
>Nice non-answer. So you haven't done this. I thought not.
>
>The pot contains hot oil. One cooks plain cubes of meat in it. Period.
>
>No wine. No lemon juice. No acid ingredients. Just oil in the pot. Just
>meat cooked in it.

Are you sure he isn't thinking of *cheese fondue*, which indeed
contains wine and sometimes lemon juice?

Nathalie in Switzerland (being Swiss, when I read "fondue" I
immediately thought of cheese fondue)

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:59:12 -0500, "Bob (this one)" >
> wrote:
>
>>(East Bay) Phil wrote:
>
>>>>>1 - Which dutch oven to use? The LC oven is enameled and therefore
>>>>>my first choice. However, I'd like the flexibility to use the Lodge
>>>>>serving pot (mini dutch oven) as well - especially when camping.
>>>>>Will the acidic elements of a fondue recipe be sufficient to damage
>>>>>the seasoning on the Lodge?
>>>>
>>>>What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping and aren't
>>>>cooked. You've never done this, have you?
>>>
>>>Wine, lemon juice....
>>
>>Nice non-answer. So you haven't done this. I thought not.
>>
>>The pot contains hot oil. One cooks plain cubes of meat in it. Period.
>>
>>No wine. No lemon juice. No acid ingredients. Just oil in the pot. Just
>>meat cooked in it.
>
> Are you sure he isn't thinking of *cheese fondue*, which indeed
> contains wine and sometimes lemon juice?

No, I'm not. But the OP missed the several chances to say that it was
cheese, if it is. I wrote "oil and meat" which should have given a clue
that the OP wasn't exactly clear if cheese was the subject.

Using a cast iron cook/serving pot for cheese fondue is not a good idea.
The temperature control necessary to assemble and create the homogeneous
mixture of a cheese fondue is very difficult to maintain with cast iron
- very easy to make too hot or not hot enough and it takes a fair amount
of time to correct. Any but the smoothest cast iron will cause cheese to
adhere to the irregularities. Perhaps that's why a glazed caquelon has
been the preferred cheese fondue pot. Not much chance for successfully
getting "la religieuse" to develop with cast iron.

> Nathalie in Switzerland (being Swiss, when I read "fondue" I
> immediately thought of cheese fondue)

<LOL> Not chocolate...?

Pastorio

This will be my last post on this topic.

Here's where he asks for the *acidic* elements:

> >>>>What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping and
> >>>>aren't cooked. You've never done this, have you?

And here's where I give the common *acidic* elements of a cheese fondue.
Note that all ingredients are not listed because they are not all
acidic. Note also that I wouldn't be posting the question if I *had*
don't this before. That's just common sense.

> >>>Wine, lemon juice....
>
> >>Nice non-answer. So you haven't done this. I thought not.

See above. It really didn't make much sense for me to handhold you after your initial reply was so rude. This time, I'm doing it out of shear hope that you'll see how unproductive your style of response is.

> >>The pot contains hot oil. One cooks plain cubes of meat in it.
> >>Period.

Hrmmm. Apparently he hasn't done it either. I wonder if he's even
heard of cheese fondue?

> >>No wine. No lemon juice. No acid ingredients. Just oil in the pot.
> >>Just meat cooked in it.

I guess not. Try it! :-) It's something people do socially.

> > Are you sure he isn't thinking of *cheese fondue*, which indeed
> > contains wine and sometimes lemon juice?

My God. In mere seconds this new poster deduces what the other
responder just can't grasp - somewhere in the world, they make *cheese*
fondue. Perhaps I've inspired him to look outside himself for
information. Is he intelligent enough to consider these options and
maybe look into a cookbook?

> No, I'm not. But the OP missed the several chances to say that it was
> cheese, if it is.

I guess I thought that the wine and lemon juice reference would've made that clear. For kicks, let's visit dictionary.com:

*snip*

2 entries found for fondue.

fon·due also fon·du Audio pronunciation of "fondue" ( P )
Pronunciation Key (fn-d, -dy) n.

1.
a. A hot dish made of melted cheese and wine and eaten with
bread.
b. A similar dish, especially one consisting of a melted sauce
in which pieces of food, such as bread, meat, or fruit, are dipped or
cooked: chocolate fondue.

2. A soufflé usually made with cheese and bread crumbs.

*/snip*

> I wrote "oil and meat" which should have given a clue that the OP
> wasn't exactly clear if cheese was the subject.

A clue that the *I* wasn't clear on the subject or that *you* weren't
clear? Your lack of clarity is not the world's problem. If you don't
know, it's your responsibility to ask. It's poor netiquette to respond
in such a critical manner when you don't even understand the subject
matter of the post.

> Using a cast iron cook/serving pot for cheese fondue is not a good
> idea. The temperature control necessary to assemble and create the
> homogeneous mixture of a cheese fondue is very difficult to maintain
> with cast iron

Holy crap! An answer. Was that so hard?

> - very easy to make too hot or not hot enough and it takes a fair
> amount of time to correct. Any but the smoothest cast iron will cause
> cheese to adhere to the irregularities. Perhaps that's why a glazed
> caquelon has been the preferred cheese fondue pot. Not much chance
> for successfully getting "la religieuse" to develop with cast iron.

And he helps me to choose the right pot, too. Oh, what a glorious
initial response this would have been.

> > Nathalie in Switzerland (being Swiss, when I read "fondue" I
> > immediately thought of cheese fondue)

You're not alone Nathalie. Considering fondue's origins, I thought it a
reasonable assumption as well.

> <LOL> Not chocolate...?

And he tops it off with an ethnic cliche. That's nice.

Nathalie, I appreciate your comments.
Pastorio, thanks to the wonders of filtering, I won't see yours anymore.

Cheers,
Phil

(East Bay) Phil wrote:
> This will be my last post on this topic.
>
> Here's where he asks for the *acidic* elements:
>
>>>>>> What acidic elements? Oil and meat. Sauces are for dipping
>>>>>> and aren't cooked. You've never done this, have you?
>
> And here's where I give the common *acidic* elements of a cheese
> fondue. Note that all ingredients are not listed because they are not
> all acidic. Note also that I wouldn't be posting the question if I
> *had* don't this before. That's just common sense.

Um, so you say. But did you forget your header up there at the top? It
says, "How should I cook fondue in a cast iron dutch oven?"

Except that cheese fondue is virtually impossible to pull off
successfully in a cast iron pot, but that's not what you asked about.
You wanted to know if acidic ingredients would harm the seasoning. Your
not mentioning *cheese* until now might say something to your capacities
for clarity and fullness of expression. When you want information, ask
the whole question.

> See above. It really didn't make much sense for me to handhold you
> after your initial reply was so rude. This time, I'm doing it out
> of shear hope that you'll see how unproductive your style of response
> is.

My "shear hope" is that your definition of "handholding" doesn't really
include being unable to state the nature of the information you're
trying to get.

>>>> The pot contains hot oil. One cooks plain cubes of meat in it.
>>>> Period.
>
> Hrmmm. Apparently he hasn't done it either. I wonder if he's even
> heard of cheese fondue?

*Never* in a cast iron pot. And *never* without the word *cheese* - your
late addition to the subject.

>>> Are you sure he isn't thinking of *cheese fondue*, which indeed
>>> contains wine and sometimes lemon juice?
>
> My God. In mere seconds this new poster deduces what the other
> responder just can't grasp - somewhere in the world, they make
> *cheese* fondue. Perhaps I've inspired him to look outside himself
> for information. Is he intelligent enough to consider these options
> and maybe look into a cookbook?

<LOL> The problem, Scooter, is that you don't know enough to ask the
question you really want the answer to.

We served fondues in all my restaurants. Cheese in crockery caquelons
because they either burn or don't stay warm enough in anything else.
Beef (and other meats and seafoods) in either copper or cast iron pots.
Chocolate (and dulce de leche, peanut butter, etc.) in glass or ceramic.
Firepots in brass and copper pots. Bagna caoda in crocks... We did
others that are usually lumped in with fondues, like raclette, sukiyaki,
flambees, Korean barbecue, etc.

My problem with your missing word *cheese* is that I know a bit too much
about the subject. I know that cheese fondue won't work in unglazed cast
iron, assumed you would know that as well, and so dismissed it immediately.

>> No, I'm not. But the OP missed the several chances to say that it
>> was cheese, if it is.
>
> I guess I thought that the wine and lemon juice reference would've
> made that clear.

Funny how the salient ingredient is utterly absent. That would be *cheese*

And it wouldn't be amiss to think that someone asking such a vague
question doesn't know that the dips aren't cooked with the meats in oil
fondues.

> For kicks, let's visit dictionary.com:
>
> *snip*
>
> 2 entries found for fondue.

Very useful definitions and, if I may point it out, a bit self-serving.
I note that the word "Bourguignonne" is missing from it. Do you like the
completeness of it? It's nearly as full and clear as your question.

> fon·due also fon·du Audio pronunciation of "fondue" ( P )
> Pronunciation Key (fn-d, -dy) n.
>
> 1. a. A hot dish made of melted cheese and wine and eaten with bread.
> b. A similar dish, especially one consisting of a melted sauce in
> which pieces of food, such as bread, meat, or fruit, are dipped or
> cooked: chocolate fondue.
>
> 2. A soufflé usually made with cheese and bread crumbs.
>
> */snip*
>
>> I wrote "oil and meat" which should have given a clue that the OP
>> wasn't exactly clear if cheese was the subject.
>
> A clue that the *I* wasn't clear on the subject or that *you* weren't
> clear? Your lack of clarity is not the world's problem.

But you want to make yours the world's problem. Want to know about
cheese fondues? Ask about cheese fondues, not about seasoning in cast
iron or "how [to] cook fondue."

> If you
> don't know, it's your responsibility to ask. It's poor netiquette to
> respond in such a critical manner when you don't even understand the
> subject matter of the post.

"Don't write it so they can understand it, write it so they can't
misunderstand it."

Your question was so vaguely formed that presuming your ignorance was a
much shorter stretch than assuming that you were actually going to try
to use an rough and unglazed pot for cheese fondue. The assumption that
you have had little or no experience proceeded directly and immediately
from that. A moment's consideration of the nature of the surface and the
heat-retaining qualities of cast iron should have made the question
moot. Didn't know about those things? Oh. That makes it *my* problem? Right.

>> Using a cast iron cook/serving pot for cheese fondue is not a good
>> idea. The temperature control necessary to assemble and create the
>> homogeneous mixture of a cheese fondue is very difficult to
>> maintain with cast iron
>
> Holy crap! An answer. Was that so hard?

Based on the gossamer and misguided original question, yes. And not a
logical reply to the off-the-mark, partial-question posed.

>> - very easy to make too hot or not hot enough and it takes a fair
>> amount of time to correct. Any but the smoothest cast iron will
>> cause cheese to adhere to the irregularities. Perhaps that's why a
>> glazed caquelon has been the preferred cheese fondue pot. Not much
>> chance for successfully getting "la religieuse" to develop with
>> cast iron.
>
> And he helps me to choose the right pot, too. Oh, what a glorious
> initial response this would have been.

What a glorious thing it would have been to ask "How will a cast iron
pot work with cheese fondue?" That's what you were actually asking but
were too obtuse to form the question so it dealt with the crux of your
issues.

>>> Nathalie in Switzerland (being Swiss, when I read "fondue" I
>>> immediately thought of cheese fondue)
>
> You're not alone Nathalie. Considering fondue's origins, I thought
> it a reasonable assumption as well.

Statements like this make it rather clear that you don't really know
much about the subject. Like I posited.

>> <LOL> Not chocolate...?
>
> And he tops it off with an ethnic cliche. That's nice.

Don't demonstrate your ignorance too much further. Chocolate fondue was
first presented publicly in New York in the 1950's by Tobler.

> Nathalie, I appreciate your comments. Pastorio, thanks to the wonders
> of filtering, I won't see yours anymore.

Toss those curls as you flounce out of the room shouting
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-I-CAN'T-HEAR-YOU...

Pastorio

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 06:06:38 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:


>Except that cheese fondue is virtually impossible to pull off
>successfully in a cast iron pot

Huh? I'm Swiss, I've been cooking cheese fondue for the last 10 years
in a cast iron fondue pot, bought here in Switzerland, and it's the
best fondue pot I ever used! It's nicely seasoned now, getting the
"religieuse" is easy and cleaning it is a dream.

>We served fondues in all my restaurants. Cheese in crockery caquelons
>because they either burn or don't stay warm enough in anything else.

Tsk tsk. Again, come to Switzerland, visit a cooking implement store,
and look at all the crockery *and* cast iron caquelons...

Nathalie in Switzerland

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 06:06:38 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
> wrote:
>
>>Except that cheese fondue is virtually impossible to pull off
>>successfully in a cast iron pot

The pot the OP was talking about was not glazed or coated. It had an
exposed cast iron surface on its interior.

"Fondue Set: An elegant way to serve your favorite meat, fish,
vegetable, or bread fondue. Cast iron fondue pot keeps the contents hot
and is very easy to work with; measures 6.75" diameter x 3.5" deep.
Wooden handles are detachable for easy cleaning and do not get warm
during usage. Cast iron is not recommended for cheese or chocolate
fondue, as these liquids will stick to the sides."
<http://www.epinions.com/pr-Cookware-Cast_Iron_Fondue_Set>

> Huh? I'm Swiss, I've been cooking cheese fondue for the last 10 years
> in a cast iron fondue pot, bought here in Switzerland, and it's the
> best fondue pot I ever used! It's nicely seasoned now, getting the
> "religieuse" is easy and cleaning it is a dream.

Nathalie, Is it enamelled? If not, is the interior smoothed/machined?
Are the walls thinner than skillets usually are? All the cast iron pots
I've seen for cheese had these features.

The ones we tried it with - plain cast iron - in our restaurants were
apparently not sufficiently smooth for the cheese to come away from the
sides and bottom. The cheese stuck and required scrubbing to get it off.
We found some Chinese cast iron pots that were milled smooth, but they
were rather expensive and still posed the problems of uneven heating. We
used full-open alcohol burners under cast iron for meat fondues, and
closed-down ones under ceramic caquelons for cheese. Chocolate we did in
ceramic cups over a candle.

For style, menu and decor reasons, we didn't want to use enamelware in
the restaurant.

>>We served fondues in all my restaurants. Cheese in crockery caquelons
>>because they either burn or don't stay warm enough in anything else.
>
> Tsk tsk. Again, come to Switzerland, visit a cooking implement store,
> and look at all the crockery *and* cast iron caquelons...

Pots like these aren't what the reference was to.
<http://www.time.com/time/techtime/200412/webshopping/foodie.html>
<http://tinyurl.com/l7qge>
<http://tinyurl.com/s3rtt>

It was to this:
"2-Quart Serving Pot, 8 inches across, 2-7/8 inches deep, with lid"
<http://tinyurl.com/kp9vv>

I thought for a minute I'd found a plain cast iron pot usable for cheese...
<http://shopping.msn.com/prices/shp/?itemId=21080015>
....nope. Fuller explanation.
<http://tinyurl.com/onubs>

I like the dancing crockery...
<http://www.lacfi.upcsites.com/Cuisine.html>

Pastorio

On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 22:48:30 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:

>Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>> Huh? I'm Swiss, I've been cooking cheese fondue for the last 10 years
>> in a cast iron fondue pot, bought here in Switzerland, and it's the
>> best fondue pot I ever used! It's nicely seasoned now, getting the
>> "religieuse" is easy and cleaning it is a dream.
>
>Nathalie, Is it enamelled? If not, is the interior smoothed/machined?

Enameled, no. Smoothed, yes

>Are the walls thinner than skillets usually are? All the cast iron pots
>I've seen for cheese had these features.

No, no thin walls. And it's *heavy*.
I googled "caquelon fonte" (in French), many many refs to cast iron
cheese fondue caquelons.

Nathalie in switzerland

Nathalie Chiva wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 22:48:30 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
> wrote:
>
>>Nathalie Chiva wrote:
>>
>>>Huh? I'm Swiss, I've been cooking cheese fondue for the last 10 years
>>>in a cast iron fondue pot, bought here in Switzerland, and it's the
>>>best fondue pot I ever used! It's nicely seasoned now, getting the
>>>"religieuse" is easy and cleaning it is a dream.
>>
>>Nathalie, Is it enamelled? If not, is the interior smoothed/machined?
>
> Enameled, no. Smoothed, yes

But that's exactly what the OP *isn't* using.

>>Are the walls thinner than skillets usually are? All the cast iron pots
>>I've seen for cheese had these features.
>
> No, no thin walls. And it's *heavy*.

Heavy is a relative term.

> I googled "caquelon fonte" (in French), many many refs to cast iron
> cheese fondue caquelons.

....and all enameled or non-stick interiors. Not plain cast iron.

Here's the Google page I got for "caquelon fonte> <http://tinyurl.com/kwaa4>

Pastorio