That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or North
African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in Morocco,
sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than used because it
is so precious, like a very special wine.

Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all. Then
there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of storing:
with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.

What I wound up doing:
- no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
- preclarification
- 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter

My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee and
tried fermenting that.)

After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
like. But then smen is used in small quantities.

it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The pungent
smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't wait, I am
highly intrigued.

PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can tell.

In article >,
jake > wrote:

> That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or North
> African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in Morocco,
> sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than used because it
> is so precious, like a very special wine.
>
> Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
> clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
> none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all. Then
> there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of storing:
> with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
>
> What I wound up doing:
> - no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
> - preclarification
> - 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>
> My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
> strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee and
> tried fermenting that.)
>
> After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
> like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>
> it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The pungent
> smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't wait, I am
> highly intrigued.
>
> PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can tell.

I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> jake > wrote:
>
>
>>That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or North
>>African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in Morocco,
>>sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than used because it
>>is so precious, like a very special wine.
>>
>>Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
>>clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
>>none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all. Then
>>there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of storing:
>>with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
>>
>>What I wound up doing:
>>- no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
>>- preclarification
>>- 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>>
>>My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
>>strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee and
>>tried fermenting that.)
>>
>>After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
>>like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>>
>>it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The pungent
>>smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't wait, I am
>>highly intrigued.
>>
>>PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can tell.
>
>
> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???

That sounds like a completetly differnet thing. I've never herard of it.
I am fascinated. But I am afraid I have no clue as what the answer to
your question is.

In article >,
jake > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > jake > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or North
> >>African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in Morocco,
> >>sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than used because it
> >>is so precious, like a very special wine.
> >>
> >>Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
> >>clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
> >>none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all. Then
> >>there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of storing:
> >>with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
> >>
> >>What I wound up doing:
> >>- no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
> >>- preclarification
> >>- 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
> >>
> >>My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
> >>strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee and
> >>tried fermenting that.)
> >>
> >>After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
> >>like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
> >>
> >>it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The pungent
> >>smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't wait, I am
> >>highly intrigued.
> >>
> >>PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can tell.
> >
> >
> > I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
> > Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>
> That sounds like a completetly differnet thing. I've never herard of it.
> I am fascinated. But I am afraid I have no clue as what the answer to
> your question is.

It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
home made yogurt.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> jake > wrote:
>
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> jake > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or North
>>>>African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in Morocco,
>>>>sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than used because it
>>>>is so precious, like a very special wine.
>>>>
>>>>Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
>>>>clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
>>>>none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all. Then
>>>>there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of storing:
>>>>with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
>>>>
>>>>What I wound up doing:
>>>>- no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
>>>>- preclarification
>>>>- 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>>>>
>>>>My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
>>>>strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee and
>>>>tried fermenting that.)
>>>>
>>>>After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
>>>>like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>>>>
>>>>it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The pungent
>>>>smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't wait, I am
>>>>highly intrigued.
>>>>
>>>>PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>>
>>>I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>>Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>>
>>That sounds like a completetly differnet thing. I've never herard of it.
>>I am fascinated. But I am afraid I have no clue as what the answer to
>>your question is.
>
>
> It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
> I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
> home made yogurt.

You rang...?

Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.

The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will get
to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal, oral
moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar will
transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

My Grandmother is from Sweden and I think she said the word for butter
was smir or smur so I did a quick search for Swedish butter and I found


Swedish butter for Morocco??
http://www.arlafoods.com/APPL/HJ/HJ2...257068003EC647

-Steven B
The World's Tastiest Database
http://www.iamfood.com

wrote:
> My Grandmother is from Sweden and I think she said the word for butter
> was smir or smur so I did a quick search for Swedish butter and I found
>
>
> Swedish butter for Morocco??
> http://www.arlafoods.com/APPL/HJ/HJ2...257068003EC647
>
> -Steven B
> The World's Tastiest Database
> http://www.iamfood.com
>
That's funny, that an expensive Northern European is successful in a
poorer country. Smor might be the Swedish spelling. But it is not the
same product as smen.

Bob (this one) wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> jake > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> jake > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or
>>>>> North African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in
>>>>> Morocco, sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than
>>>>> used because it is so precious, like a very special wine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
>>>>> clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
>>>>> none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all.
>>>>> Then there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of
>>>>> storing: with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I wound up doing:
>>>>> - no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
>>>>> - preclarification
>>>>> - 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>>>>>
>>>>> My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
>>>>> strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee
>>>>> and tried fermenting that.)
>>>>>
>>>>> After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect
>>>>> to like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>>>>>
>>>>> it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The
>>>>> pungent smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't
>>>>> wait, I am highly intrigued.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can
>>>>> tell.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>>> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>>>
>>>
>>> That sounds like a completetly differnet thing. I've never herard of
>>> it. I am fascinated. But I am afraid I have no clue as what the
>>> answer to your question is.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
>> I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
>> home made yogurt.
>
>
> You rang...?
>
> Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.
>
> The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
> with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will get
> to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal, oral
> moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar will
> transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.
>
> No, seriously...
>
> Pastorio

So we are talking very very rich yogurt? Similar to Greek yogurt?

Bob, I did some more reading up on smen and then discovered that the
factory butter I used may not ferment because it's been sterilized.
Would you happen to know if this is correct? And if it is, is there some
sort of thing I could add to make it ferment after all?

I am kind of puzzled that factory butter wouldn't work, because
sourdough starters can pick up thingies from air. So I don't see why my
butter shouldn't pick up things from the air and then ferment. It's hard
to tell whether the jar is sterile/closed 100%.

jake wrote:
> That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or North
> African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in Morocco,
> sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than used because it
> is so precious, like a very special wine.
>
> Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
> clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others wanted
> none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none at all. Then
> there were various amounts of salt, and different methods of storing:
> with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
>
> What I wound up doing:
> - no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
> - preclarification
> - 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>
> My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh to
> strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought ghee and
> tried fermenting that.)
>
> After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
> like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>
> it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The pungent
> smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I can't wait, I am
> highly intrigued.
>
> PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I can tell.

Wow I would love to try that.. maybe I have and didn't realise it?
Does it have a distinct flavour once cooked with other ingredients?
Found a good link:
http://webexhibits.org/butter/countr...rthafrica.html

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:


> > It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
> > I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
> > home made yogurt.
>
> You rang...?
>
> Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.
>
> The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
> with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will get
> to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal, oral
> moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar will
> transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.

I'd use Splenda. ;-)

>
> No, seriously...
>
> Pastorio

<grins>

Was just wondering if a certain amout of Lactose was required for
fermentation reactions with the lactobacillus. :-) Was not sure if pure
cream would "feed" the fermentation process.

Danke! :-)
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
>
>
>>>It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
>>>I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
>>>home made yogurt.
>>
>>You rang...?
>>
>>Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.
>>
>>The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
>>with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will get
>>to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal, oral
>>moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar will
>>transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.
>
> I'd use Splenda. ;-)

I've done that and it works just fine.

>>No, seriously...
>>
>>Pastorio
>
> <grins>
>
> Was just wondering if a certain amout of Lactose was required for
> fermentation reactions with the lactobacillus. :-) Was not sure if pure
> cream would "feed" the fermentation process.

"Pure" cream is, like, um, butter...?

I routinely make yogurt with 40% cream. Lovely. I did it once with a
cream that was tested at 54%. Not as lovely. Had an almost greasy mouthfeel.

Pastorio

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
> >>>I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
> >>>home made yogurt.
> >>
> >>You rang...?
> >>
> >>Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.
> >>
> >>The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
> >>with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will get
> >>to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal, oral
> >>moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar will
> >>transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.
> >
> > I'd use Splenda. ;-)
>
> I've done that and it works just fine.
>
> >>No, seriously...
> >>
> >>Pastorio
> >
> > <grins>
> >
> > Was just wondering if a certain amout of Lactose was required for
> > fermentation reactions with the lactobacillus. :-) Was not sure if pure
> > cream would "feed" the fermentation process.
>
> "Pure" cream is, like, um, butter...?

Ok, the whipping cream that is available at the store.
I don't have a carton handy, but it's pretty thick stuff. I sometimes
have to spoon it out of the carton. If not opened and used, it sets up
in a matter of days. I'm mean. I'll defeat their product rotation and
dig cartons from the back of the row. ;-)

>
> I routinely make yogurt with 40% cream. Lovely. I did it once with a
> cream that was tested at 54%. Not as lovely. Had an almost greasy mouthfeel.

I'll have to check the percentage.

What do you think about using 1/2 and 1/2? (commercial)

>
> Pastorio
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

jake wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> jake > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> jake > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or
>>>>>> North African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in
>>>>>> Morocco, sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than
>>>>>> used because it is so precious, like a very special wine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
>>>>>> clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others
>>>>>> wanted none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or none
>>>>>> at all. Then there were various amounts of salt, and different
>>>>>> methods of storing: with a muslin cover or with a tight fitting lid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I wound up doing:
>>>>>> - no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
>>>>>> - preclarification
>>>>>> - 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh
>>>>>> to strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought
>>>>>> ghee and tried fermenting that.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I
>>>>>> expect to like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The
>>>>>> pungent smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I
>>>>>> can't wait, I am highly intrigued.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I
>>>>>> can tell.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>>>> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That sounds like a completetly differnet thing. I've never herard of
>>>> it. I am fascinated. But I am afraid I have no clue as what the
>>>> answer to your question is.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try it.
>>> I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for making
>>> home made yogurt.
>>
>>
>>
>> You rang...?
>>
>> Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.
>>
>> The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
>> with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will get
>> to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal, oral
>> moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar will
>> transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.
>>
>> No, seriously...
>>
>> Pastorio
>
>
> So we are talking very very rich yogurt? Similar to Greek yogurt?

Much smoother and richer than Greek yogurt.

> Bob, I did some more reading up on smen and then discovered that the
> factory butter I used may not ferment because it's been sterilized.

Most likely, the cream it was made from was pasteurized. Butter is
churned from it and washed and, usually, salted. There's rarely any
further sterilization done. Butter doesn't support much microbiological
life. Home made butters can mold, largely because they haven't been
handled as precisely as the commercial stuff.

> Would you happen to know if this is correct? And if it is, is there some
> sort of thing I could add to make it ferment after all?

I went looking too. I didn't find anything that talked about fermenting
the butter. The various sources said, in many words, to clarify some
butter and season it with herbs and salt. Strain out the solids and
bottle the rest. Traditionally, it was put into jars and buried, for
months and even years.

Essentially, it's flavored and aged ghee.

> I am kind of puzzled that factory butter wouldn't work, because
> sourdough starters can pick up thingies from air. So I don't see why my
> butter shouldn't pick up things from the air and then ferment. It's hard
> to tell whether the jar is sterile/closed 100%.

Those "thingies" are wild strains of yeast. And other "thingies" that
are competitive, but soon overwhelmed by the yeasts. They won't ferment
butter. I went looking to see what would and couldn't find anything that
had even the remotest connection with culinaria.

But that whole business about sterilization - ultra-pasteurization - is
why milk in store-bought packages nowadays won't naturally sour as it
did when I was a kid. Now, it just spoils.

Pastorio

jake a écrit :

> After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
> like. But then smen is used in small quantities.

Did you sweet or salted butter? I don't recall seeing that. In
Morocco, they sell sweet butter in the market. It comes from Holland.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
>>I routinely make yogurt with 40% cream. Lovely. I did it once with a
>>cream that was tested at 54%. Not as lovely. Had an almost greasy mouthfeel.
>
> I'll have to check the percentage.
>
> What do you think about using 1/2 and 1/2? (commercial)

10% milkfat. Not bad, but not like heavy cream.

Pastorio

>
> Wow I would love to try that..

Me too!


maybe I have and didn't realise it?

Do you? It is very hard to find here. An expert here in The Netherlands
says the only way is to make your own.

> Does it have a distinct flavour once cooked with other ingredients?

I don't know, I've never had it. It is supposed to be pungent . I am
tempted to think it would be sort of rancid-pungent, with rich hues that
fermented things have. A buttery, salty miso or a very strong very old
cheese. It is used as flavoring, not for baking/frying where you would
use large quantities of fat.

> Found a good link:
> http://webexhibits.org/butter/countr...rthafrica.html
>
That is an excellent link! It answers the questions and doubts I have re
my method. It seems I happen to have done everything right. Unless
sterilized butter is unsuitable. Will find out in a couple of weeks.

>>After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I expect to
>>like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>
>
> Did you sweet or salted butter? I don't recall seeing that. In
> Morocco, they sell sweet butter in the market. It comes from Holland.
>

I used sweet butter and added salt myself. Butter here is always sweet.
It is almost impossible to find salted butter here in Holland (which I
love, BTW - I had it in Denmark).

Bob (this one) wrote:

> jake wrote:
>
>> Bob (this one) wrote:
>>
>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> jake > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>> jake > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen is Moroccan (or
>>>>>>> North African, maybe) fermented butter. It is highly regarded in
>>>>>>> Morocco, sometimes buried for years and only smelled rather than
>>>>>>> used because it is so precious, like a very special wine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recipes weren't easy to find and varied a lot. Some called for
>>>>>>> clarifying before fermentation, some wanted it after, others
>>>>>>> wanted none. Then there were various spices, and/or herbs, or
>>>>>>> none at all. Then there were various amounts of salt, and
>>>>>>> different methods of storing: with a muslin cover or with a tight
>>>>>>> fitting lid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I wound up doing:
>>>>>>> - no spices to discover wait the purest flavor is like
>>>>>>> - preclarification
>>>>>>> - 7 ml (almost 1,5 tsp) of salt for 250 g of butter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My clarification was imperfect, I didn't have a fine enough mesh
>>>>>>> to strain the melted butter through.( I geuss I could have bought
>>>>>>> ghee and tried fermenting that.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After clarification, I tasted the butter,. more salty then I
>>>>>>> expect to like. But then smen is used in small quantities.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it is now sitting in a cool dark room, in a marmalade jar. The
>>>>>>> pungent smell should develop over the next couple of weeks. I
>>>>>>> can't wait, I am highly intrigued.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS Sometimes smen is spelled smin. It is NOT samna, as far as I
>>>>>>> can tell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>>>>> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That sounds like a completetly differnet thing. I've never herard
>>>>> of it. I am fascinated. But I am afraid I have no clue as what the
>>>>> answer to your question is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's ok, Pastorio would know and I'll ping him when I'm ready to try
>>>> it.
>>>> I have a large incubator I need to clean out and get ready for
>>>> making home made yogurt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You rang...?
>>>
>>> Any milk/cream will ferment with yogurt culture.
>>>
>>> The more milkfat, the less acid taste. The smoother adn richer. And,
>>> with a 36% or more cream, as it ferments, it will thicken. It will
>>> get to the point where a spoon will stand in it. It's a personal,
>>> oral moment to eat some of it. Strawberries and a sprinkle of sugar
>>> will transport you to a kind of milk-mustache nirvana.
>>>
>>> No, seriously...
>>>
>>> Pastorio
>>
>>
>>
>> So we are talking very very rich yogurt? Similar to Greek yogurt?
>
>
> Much smoother and richer than Greek yogurt.
>
All I can say is: OMG. It sounds like heaven on earth. I notice good
strawberries are starting to be sold again, at very decent prices. The
combination must be fantastic.

>> Bob, I did some more reading up on smen and then discovered that the
>> factory butter I used may not ferment because it's been sterilized.
>
>
> Most likely, the cream it was made from was pasteurized. Butter is
> churned from it and washed and, usually, salted. There's rarely any
> further sterilization done. Butter doesn't support much microbiological
> life. Home made butters can mold, largely because they haven't been
> handled as precisely as the commercial stuff.
>
>> Would you happen to know if this is correct? And if it is, is there
>> some sort of thing I could add to make it ferment after all?
>
>
> I went looking too. I didn't find anything that talked about fermenting
> the butter. The various sources said, in many words, to clarify some
> butter and season it with herbs and salt. Strain out the solids and
> bottle the rest. Traditionally, it was put into jars and buried, for
> months and even years.
>
> Essentially, it's flavored and aged ghee.
>
Yeah. Although one source I cam across said ghee is darker because it is
heated to a higher temperature.

>> I am kind of puzzled that factory butter wouldn't work, because
>> sourdough starters can pick up thingies from air. So I don't see why
>> my butter shouldn't pick up things from the air and then ferment. It's
>> hard to tell whether the jar is sterile/closed 100%.
>
>
> Those "thingies" are wild strains of yeast. And other "thingies" that
> are competitive, but soon overwhelmed by the yeasts. They won't ferment
> butter. I went looking to see what would and couldn't find anything that
> had even the remotest connection with culinaria.
>
Very educational. I also want to start working with sourdough,. but it's
on a long list of things I want to try. So I don't know when I'll get
around to ti. But I am doing preliminary reading in the sourdough ng.

> But that whole business about sterilization - ultra-pasteurization - is
> why milk in store-bought packages nowadays won't naturally sour as it
> did when I was a kid. Now, it just spoils.
>

Maybe that explains why home made cottage cheese was something
completely natural to my mother (who is about 70) but I've never heard
it mentioned buy anyone of my generation (I'm 34). No sour milk, so no
reason for making something out of sour milk.

> Pastorio

Wow, you have done lots of research. Thank you so much. Isn't smen
highly interesting? Your answers help me along. I'll be patient and hope
for the best. i have taken a picture of the jar today and will take some
more in the following weeks. To show here in RFC, If it works, I'd love
for others to be able to try it. Feel like coming over?

jake wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>> jake wrote:
>>
>>> Bob (this one) wrote:
>>>
>> is why milk in store-bought packages nowadays won't naturally sour as
>> it did when I was a kid. Now, it just spoils.
>>
> Maybe that explains why home made cottage cheese was something
> completely natural to my mother (who is about 70) but I've never heard
> it mentioned buy anyone of my generation (I'm 34). No sour milk, so no
> reason for making something out of sour milk.

Making cottage cheese is very easy, even with today's milk. There are
many variations on that kind of fresh cheese. Every country and culture
has a variation.

Lots of recipes online.

> Wow, you have done lots of research. Thank you so much. Isn't smen
> highly interesting? Your answers help me along. I'll be patient and hope
> for the best. i have taken a picture of the jar today and will take some
> more in the following weeks. To show here in RFC, If it works, I'd love
> for others to be able to try it. Feel like coming over?

A little research... Smen is interesting. Preserving butter in an
environment not hospitable to that.

Coming over...? May be in France and Italy this summer. I lived in
Brussels for a good while in the last century and behaved badly in big
cities like Amsterdam and small ones like Bunnik. <G>

I'd love to come over, but it doesn't seem likely that I'll be able to
hit the Netherlands...

Pastorio

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
> >
> >>I routinely make yogurt with 40% cream. Lovely. I did it once with a
> >>cream that was tested at 54%. Not as lovely. Had an almost greasy mouthfeel.
> >
> > I'll have to check the percentage.
> >
> > What do you think about using 1/2 and 1/2? (commercial)
>
> 10% milkfat. Not bad, but not like heavy cream.
>
> Pastorio

Ok, I am so going to have to try it. ;-)

Thanks!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Steve Wertz wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:12:48 +0100, jake >
> wrote:
>
>
>>That doesn't sound very appealing, does it?
>
>
> I figured you were just a troll who left an E out of semen.
>
> -sw

I can't judge whtehr I might be a troll to others, but I know I'm not
making semen. Unless you mean the seeds from the herbs growing on my
balcony

Bob (this one) wrote:

> jake wrote:
>
>> Bob (this one) wrote:
>>
>>> jake wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob (this one) wrote:
>>>>
>>> is why milk in store-bought packages nowadays won't naturally sour as
>>> it did when I was a kid. Now, it just spoils.
>>>
>> Maybe that explains why home made cottage cheese was something
>> completely natural to my mother (who is about 70) but I've never heard
>> it mentioned buy anyone of my generation (I'm 34). No sour milk, so no
>> reason for making something out of sour milk.
>
>
> Making cottage cheese is very easy, even with today's milk. There are
> many variations on that kind of fresh cheese. Every country and culture
> has a variation.
>
> Lots of recipes online.
>
>> Wow, you have done lots of research. Thank you so much. Isn't smen
>> highly interesting? Your answers help me along. I'll be patient and
>> hope for the best. i have taken a picture of the jar today and will
>> take some more in the following weeks. To show here in RFC, If it
>> works, I'd love for others to be able to try it. Feel like coming
>> over?
>
>
> A little research... Smen is interesting. Preserving butter in an
> environment not hospitable to that.
>

It's odd, isn't it. I am hoping i will work. Since I've never tasted it,
I might not even be able to judge whether it ahs worked

> Coming over...? May be in France and Italy this summer. I lived in
> Brussels for a good while in the last century and behaved badly in big
> cities like Amsterdam and small ones like Bunnik. <G>

Wow. Bunnik! I spent an hour there once. It seemed tranquil.

>
> I'd love to come over, but it doesn't seem likely that I'll be able to
> hit the Netherlands...
>
It was a long shot.- I'll keep you posted on the smen results through
Usenet instead.

"projectile vomit chick" > wrote in message
...
> On 20 Mar 2006 15:40:56 -0800, in rec.food.cooking, "Sheldon"
> > hit the crackpipe and declared:
>>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>> > jake wrote:
>>>
>>> > That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen
>>>
>>> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>>
>>Nah, it's easier, quicker, and more fun to make semen.
>>
>>Sheldon
>
> The proof is in the pudding <g>


ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Wed 22 Mar 2006 07:43:38a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it projectile
vomit chick?

> On 20 Mar 2006 15:40:56 -0800, in rec.food.cooking, "Sheldon"
> > hit the crackpipe and declared:
>>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>> > jake wrote:
>>>
>>> > That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? Smen
>>>
>>> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>>
>>Nah, it's easier, quicker, and more fun to make semen.
>>
>>Sheldon
>
> The proof is in the pudding <g>
>

Would that be instant pudding?

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

In article >,
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:


> I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
> Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???

They call this "sour cream". You can buy it at any grocery store.

I did a Google on "sour cream homemade" and got several hits.

Directions mostly called for heavy cream with a little added cultured
buttermilk. Leave at room temperature for 24 hours and then refrigerate.

My father made this when I was a kid. He would buy heavy cream at the
dairy store, and leave it on the stove (turned off) for a day. It was
really thick.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

Dan Abel wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
>>I want to try making fermented cream with yogurt culture. :-)
>>Would I have to use 1/2 and 1/2 or would pure cream work???
>
> They call this "sour cream".

Sour cream is made differently with different culture bacteria or none
at all.

"Sour Cream Sour cream is made by adding a special bacterial culture to
light cream. The bacteria produce lactic acid, which sours the cream.
Sometimes manufacturers use food-grade acid instead of bacteria to make
sour cream. The product must be labeled "acidified sour cream" if this
process is used. Acidified sour cream has the same wholesomeness as sour
cream; the only difference is in the manufacturing process. Both sour
cream and acidified sour cream are smooth and thick, and meet the
milkfat requirements for light cream."
<http://www.ams.usda.gov/kidsweb/dairygrading.htm>

"SOUR CREAM is produced by the same bacteria as buttermilk, but the
starting milk product is pasteurized light cream. Bacteria are less
numerous than in buttermilk."
<http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/MLK_FERM99.HTM>

> You can buy it at any grocery store.
>
> I did a Google on "sour cream homemade" and got several hits.
>
> Directions mostly called for heavy cream with a little added cultured
> buttermilk. Leave at room temperature for 24 hours and then refrigerate.

Yogurt Cultu
Lactococcus thermophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus

DL-Culture (Buttermilk starter):
Lactococcus lactis, Lactococcus cremoris, Lactococcus diacetylactis and
Leuconostoc cremoris (Lactobacillus casei is added in some newer types
of this culture to improve the ripening)
<http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese_course/Cheese_starter_culture.html>

> My father made this when I was a kid. He would buy heavy cream at the
> dairy store, and leave it on the stove (turned off) for a day. It was
> really thick.

That was the action of naturally occurring lactose-digesting bacteria
that are now killed by ultra-pasteurization. Milk now will simply spoil
and get all nice and chunky. Yum...

Pastorio

>>I can't judge whtehr I might be a troll to others, but I know I'm not
>>making semen. Unless you mean the seeds from the herbs growing on my
>>balcony
>
>
> We get those posts here every few weeks. "How do you serve
> sperm", or "I'm cooking fetus", etc... They're all the same
> mentality, obviously from the same idiot. Your subject fit the
> pattern.
>

Ive been around for longer for a few weeks, and I ahdn't notived such a
paattern,. But then i am quick to forget irrelevant posts.

> But no, you're not a troll. At least not until we all gang up on
> you and you get upset and announce you're leaving because we're
> all picking on you. Then you'll return as a troll. Happens all
> the time.
>