I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken properly -
can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
Thanks.
Teri

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 03:14:42p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Teri?

> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
> large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If
> you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
> directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
> properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
> thicken?). Thanks.
> Teri

My experience with this recipe is that the pan juices caramelized and thicken
during the long cooking. I just spoon them over the meat. No need to
thicken.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Teri wrote:

> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
> quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
> suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
> directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken properly -
> can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
> Thanks.

Stir.
There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with liquid,
like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you can add flour
to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a roux, then add liquid
slowly, and stirring constantly until it is mixed smoothly. Do not season it
until it is cooked to the proper consistency, because if you season it to taste
too early and then cook the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Teri wrote:
>
>
> Stir.
> There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with
> liquid,
> like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you can add
> flour
> to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a roux, then add
> liquid
> slowly, and stirring constantly until it is mixed smoothly. Do not season
> it
> until it is cooked to the proper consistency, because if you season it to
> taste
> too early and then cook the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.

Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed with
the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a certain amount
of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i know most people do
this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get it right)

When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if i
didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.
Thanks.
Teri
>
>

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 03:50:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Teri?

>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Teri wrote:
>>
>>
>> Stir.
>> There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with
>> liquid, like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you
>> can add flour to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a
>> roux, then add liquid slowly, and stirring constantly until it is
>> mixed smoothly. Do not season it until it is cooked to the proper
>> consistency, because if you season it to taste too early and then cook
>> the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.
>
> Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed
> with the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a
> certain amount of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i
> know most people do this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get
> it right)
>
> When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil?
> If you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i
> wonder if i didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added
> flour. Thanks.
> Teri

The usual rule of thumb is 2 tablespoons of flour per cup of finished
gravy. I like it a little thinner, 1-1/2 tablespoons. If you don't want
to add additional liquid to the gravy, allow a portion of the pan juices to
cool, then whisk the liquid with the flour to make the slurry. The slurry
can be fairly thick, but should be pourable. You want to be able to mix it
in easily. One the slurry is fully incorporated into the pan juices, it
should be brought to a boil, then simmered a few minutes to fully thicken
and lose the raw taste of the flour.

HTH

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...
> On Thu 02 Mar 2006 03:50:26p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Teri?
>
>>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Teri wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Stir.
>>> There are different ways to make gravy. You can deglace the pan with
>>> liquid, like broth or wine, and add a slurry of flour and water, or you
>>> can add flour to the pan juices, put on the heat and stir to make a
>>> roux, then add liquid slowly, and stirring constantly until it is
>>> mixed smoothly. Do not season it until it is cooked to the proper
>>> consistency, because if you season it to taste too early and then cook
>>> the liquid out it is going to be over seasoned.
>>
>> Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed
>> with the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a
>> certain amount of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i
>> know most people do this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get
>> it right)
>>
>> When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil?
>> If you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i
>> wonder if i didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added
>> flour. Thanks.
>> Teri
>
> The usual rule of thumb is 2 tablespoons of flour per cup of finished
> gravy. I like it a little thinner, 1-1/2 tablespoons. If you don't want
> to add additional liquid to the gravy, allow a portion of the pan juices
> to
> cool, then whisk the liquid with the flour to make the slurry. The slurry
> can be fairly thick, but should be pourable. You want to be able to mix
> it
> in easily. One the slurry is fully incorporated into the pan juices, it
> should be brought to a boil, then simmered a few minutes to fully thicken
> and lose the raw taste of the flour.
>
> HTH

Very helpful, Thanks.
Teri
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright o¿o
> ____________________
>
> BIOYA

On 3 Mar 2006 00:10:14 +0100, Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> The usual rule of thumb is 2 tablespoons of flour per cup of finished
> gravy. I like it a little thinner, 1-1/2 tablespoons. If you don't want
> to add additional liquid to the gravy, allow a portion of the pan juices to
> cool, then whisk the liquid with the flour to make the slurry. The slurry
> can be fairly thick, but should be pourable. You want to be able to mix it
> in easily. One the slurry is fully incorporated into the pan juices, it
> should be brought to a boil, then simmered a few minutes to fully thicken
> and lose the raw taste of the flour.

Also, if the gravy thickens too much... there is no rule against
adding some extra water to thin it down.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

The taste is wonderful if you brown the flour. Put the dry flour in a
cake pan in the oven at about 300, or in a frying pan on the stove on
medium-low heat. It takes a while to get started but once it starts to
brown you have to watch it because it can burn fast. The smell is also
great.

I never have any trouble making gravy, either with a slurry or just
mixing in the flour. It helps to whisk. Bringing the mixture to a light
boil is okay.

Yappa
http://yappadingding.blogspot.com/

wrote:

> The taste is wonderful if you brown the flour. Put the dry flour in a
> cake pan in the oven at about 300, or in a frying pan on the stove on
> medium-low heat. It takes a while to get started but once it starts to
> brown you have to watch it because it can burn fast. The smell is also
> great.
>
> I never have any trouble making gravy, either with a slurry or just
> mixing in the flour. It helps to whisk. Bringing the mixture to a light
> boil is okay.

Yep. Either way tends to work just as well. Sometimes I do it one way and
sometimes I do it the other.

Teri wrote:

> Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed with
> the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a certain amount
> of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i know most people do
> this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get it right)

Probably about three parts cold water to one part flour. The idea is to mix it
cold and then pop it into the hot liquid so that it won't get lumpy. If you add
flour directly to hot liquid, or if you add a thick slurry, it is likely to be
go lumpy.

> When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
> you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if i
> didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.

What you should so is to poor off the juices leaving enough fat to mix with the
flour to make the roux. Then return the pan juices.... minus the extra fat....
and add liquid as required. You can use vegetable water, broth, wine....

It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister in law
taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool, add
the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the there
were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to deglace
with wine, and then use the slurry.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Teri wrote:
>
>> Slurry question: I assume this is a mixture where the flour gets mixed
>> with
>> the water - what's the ratio? equal amounts? - do you need a certain
>> amount
>> of slurry to thicken a certain amount of liquid? (i know most people do
>> this by feel or sight, but I can never seem to get it right)
>
> Probably about three parts cold water to one part flour. The idea is to
> mix it
> cold and then pop it into the hot liquid so that it won't get lumpy. If
> you add
> flour directly to hot liquid, or if you add a thick slurry, it is likely
> to be
> go lumpy.
>
>> When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
>> you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if
>> i
>> didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.
>
> What you should so is to poor off the juices leaving enough fat to mix
> with the
> flour to make the roux. Then return the pan juices.... minus the extra
> fat....
> and add liquid as required. You can use vegetable water, broth, wine....
>
> It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister
> in law
> taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool,
> add
> the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the
> there
> were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to
> deglace
> with wine, and then use the slurry.

I never understood why sometimes it got so lumpy! Thanks!
Teri

>
>
>
>
>

Teri wrote:

>
> > It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister
> > in law
> > taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool,
> > add
> > the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the
> > there
> > were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to
> > deglace
> > with wine, and then use the slurry.
>
> I never understood why sometimes it got so lumpy! Thanks!
> Teri

There are two reasons for that. One is that it wasn't well mixed when it was
brought to heat, the other is that it went in to hot liquid and and cooked
instantly. It's similar to tempering eggs. If you add the beaten egg to hot
liquid it cooks instantly and hardens into little bits. If you add the hot
liquid to the egg a bit at a time it warms it up gently until the egg is well
incorporated into the liquid.

Dave Smith wrote:

>Teri wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>When you add flour to pan juices - do you need to bring it to a boil? If
>>you stir long enough, will it definitely thicken (sometimes - i wonder if i
>>didn't give it enough time to thicken up) if you've added flour.
>>
>>
>
>What you should so is to poor off the juices leaving enough fat to mix with the
>flour to make the roux. Then return the pan juices.... minus the extra fat....
>and add liquid as required. You can use vegetable water, broth, wine....
>
>It depends on the type and cut of the meat, the type of pan. My sister in law
>taught me to make gravy by pouring off most of the fat, let the pan cool, add
>the flour and stirring it in and then heating it up. I found that if the there
>were lots of nice little brown bits stuck to the pan it was better to deglace
>with wine, and then use the slurry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Spot on, but Teri should know that it helps if you use a wooden spoon
with a straight edge on the bottom to make it easy to scrape up all the
little brown bits. When I'm roasting I always have veggies in the pan to
ensure that there are little brown bits. What happens is that they
dissolve into the gravy, which improves the flavour no end.

Christine

Teri wrote:

> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
> quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
> suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
> directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
properly -
> can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
> Thanks.
> Teri
>


here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error

1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux is
equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
drippings.
a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
component
when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat, the
result
will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
you can add the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require
some
stirring to smooth.
3. it's better to cook the roux for several minutes to toast the flour.
(be sure to stir constantly and coat all of the flour with fat)
this removes the raw flour taste and adds considerable flavor depending
on how long you cook the roux. just don't burn it. burnt roux is ruined.
a roux thickened gravy/sauce must be brought to a boil to obtain the
maximum thickening capacity
4. it takes about 2 teaspoons of corn starch to thicken 1 cup of liquid
( a slurry of corn starch and water in a 2:1 ratio works well.)
5. corn starch thickened gravies/sauces aren't quite as durable as flour
gravies. all thickeners lose thickening power the more you cook them.
6. arrowroot is also a popular thickener, IMO there's really no reason to
use it unless you have issues with flour or corn starch

"AC" > wrote in message
...
>
> Teri wrote:
>
>> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
>> large
>> quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
>> suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
>> directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
> properly -
>> can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
>> Thanks.
>> Teri
>>
>
>
> here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error
>
> 1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
> 2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux is
> equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
> try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
> drippings.
> a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
> component
> when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat, the
> result
> will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
> you can add the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require
> some
> stirring to smooth.
> 3. it's better to cook the roux for several minutes to toast the flour.
> (be sure to stir constantly and coat all of the flour with fat)
> this removes the raw flour taste and adds considerable flavor depending
> on how long you cook the roux. just don't burn it. burnt roux is ruined.
> a roux thickened gravy/sauce must be brought to a boil to obtain the
> maximum thickening capacity
> 4. it takes about 2 teaspoons of corn starch to thicken 1 cup of liquid
> ( a slurry of corn starch and water in a 2:1 ratio works well.)
> 5. corn starch thickened gravies/sauces aren't quite as durable as flour
> gravies. all thickeners lose thickening power the more you cook them.
> 6. arrowroot is also a popular thickener, IMO there's really no reason to
> use it unless you have issues with flour or corn starch

Wow! Sent to 'print'! Thanks!
Teri

>
>

at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in >,
(AC) wrote :

>
>Teri wrote:
>
>> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
>> large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices?
>> (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe
>> and directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
>properly -
>> can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
>> Thanks.
>> Teri
>>
>
>
>here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error
>
>1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
>2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux
>is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
>try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
>drippings.
>a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
>component
>when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat,
>the result
>will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
>you can add the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require
>some
>stirring to smooth.

Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is
the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
doing improperly?

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Alex Rast wrote:
>
> But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth, occasionally
> hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
> it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps
> against the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in,
> but this is insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid
> is added, the result is the same, it would seem, every time.
> Can anyone speculate what I might be doing improperly?

Do you add the liquid all at once, or a little
at a time (called "tempering", however the process
is not at all like the tempering of chocolate)?

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in >,

>>>
>>
>>
>>2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux
>>is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
>>try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
>>drippings.
>>a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in the fat
>>component
>>when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat,
>>the result
>>will be smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted,
>>you can add the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require
>>some
>>stirring to smooth.
>
> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
> seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
> don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
> problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
> the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
> occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
> it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
> the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
> insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result
> is
> the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
> doing improperly?

If I understand these response correctly, according to Dave - the liquid you
add should be cool.
Teri


>
> --
> Alex Rast
>
> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex Rast?

> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in >,
> (AC) wrote :
>
>>
>>Teri wrote:
>>
>>> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
>>> large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices?
>>> (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe
>>> and directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
>>> properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
>>> thicken?). Thanks.
>>> Teri
>>>
>>
>>
>>here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error
>>
>>1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of liquid.
>>2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other thickeners (roux
>>is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux from pan drippings,
>>try to ensure that there is no or very little water component to the
>>drippings. a gravy seperator works well for this. if there is water in
>>the fat component when your start the roux, the flour will clump. if
>>there is only fat, the result will be smooth. once all of the flour is
>>well coated and cooked/toasted, you can add the liquid/ju willy nilly
>>and it won't clump. it may require some stirring to smooth.
>
> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
> seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
> don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
> problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can
> brown the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot
> broth, occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can
> declump it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the
> clumps against the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in,
> but this is insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is
> added, the result is the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone
> speculate what I might be doing improperly?

You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too roux. I
find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool slightly, and
only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while whisking briskly.
Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a boil. That never lumps for
me.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote on 02 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex
> Rast?
>
> > at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in
> > >, (AC) wrote :
> >
> >>
> >>Teri wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite
> >>> a large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan
> >>> juices? (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would
> >>> appreciate a recipe and directions - i seem to have a problem
> >>> getting gravies to thicken properly - can anyone explain the
> >>> 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?). Thanks.
> >>> Teri
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and
> >>error
> >>
> >>1. it takes about 1.5 tablespoons of flour to thicken 1 cup of
> >>liquid. 2. IMO a roux thickened gravy tastes better than other
> >>thickeners (roux is equal parts fat and flour) when making the roux
> >>from pan drippings, try to ensure that there is no or very little
> >>water component to the drippings. a gravy seperator works well for
> >>this. if there is water in the fat component when your start the
> >>roux, the flour will clump. if there is only fat, the result will be
> >>smooth. once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted, you
> >>can add the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require
> >>some stirring to smooth.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact,
> > there seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to
> > clump that I don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe.
> > There's never any problem with making it smooth during the roux
> > stage. And then I can brown the roux as desired. But then, when I
> > add liquid - usually hot broth, occasionally hot water - invariably,
> > the roux clumps badly. I can declump it, by stirring for about 1/2
> > hour, carefully pressing the clumps against the side and spreading
> > them out, then stirring back in, but this is insanely tedious. It
> > doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is the same, it
> > would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be doing
> > improperly?
>
> You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too
> roux. I find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool
> slightly, and only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while
> whisking briskly. Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a
> boil. That never lumps for me.
>

I find that the pan juices usually have enough fat in them. I mix up some
water and the flour in a jar with a lid...Shake it well to eliminate
lumps and add that to the pan juices.

--
-Alan

at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:37:13 GMT in
9>,
wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com (Wayne Boatwright) wrote :

>On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex
>Rast?
>
>> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in >,
>> (AC) wrote :
>>
....
>>>here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error
>>>
>>>...if there is only fat, the result will be smooth.
>>>once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted, you can add
>>>the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require some
>>>stirring to smooth.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact,
>> there seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump
>> that I don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's
>> never any problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And
>> then I can brown the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid -
>> usually hot broth, occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux
>> clumps badly. ...
>
>You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too roux.

Deciphering, am I to understand that your concern is my liquid is too hot
and my roux too cold? If so, interesting. I'd always assumed that hot
liquid was best (after years of watching my dad, an accomplished gravy-
master, use liquid that had been boiling moments ago). Perhaps this has
been an issue.

>I find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool
>slightly, and only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while
>whisking briskly. Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a boil.
> That never lumps for me.

With beef gravy, I like to brown the roux a lot, so it should be pretty
hot. Chicken and turkey, however, I brown minimally.

On adding gradually - yes, I do this. I pretty much assumed that would be
the way to go.

I've generally used a spoon instead of a whisk, in part because of the
practical issue I've faced (flattening and spreading lumps against the side
of the pan)

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

On Fri 03 Mar 2006 03:47:30a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex Rast?

> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:37:13 GMT in
> 9>,
> wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com (Wayne Boatwright) wrote :
>
>>On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex
>>Rast?
>>
>>> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in >,
>>> (AC) wrote :
>>>
> ...
>>>>here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and error
>>>>
>>>>...if there is only fat, the result will be smooth.
>>>>once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted, you can add
>>>>the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require some
>>>>stirring to smooth.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact,
>>> there seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump
>>> that I don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's
>>> never any problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And
>>> then I can brown the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid -
>>> usually hot broth, occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux
>>> clumps badly. ...
>>
>>You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too roux.
>
> Deciphering, am I to understand that your concern is my liquid is too
> hot and my roux too cold? If so, interesting. I'd always assumed that
> hot liquid was best (after years of watching my dad, an accomplished
> gravy- master, use liquid that had been boiling moments ago). Perhaps
> this has been an issue.
>
>>I find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool
>>slightly, and only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while
>>whisking briskly. Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a boil.
>> That never lumps for me.
>
> With beef gravy, I like to brown the roux a lot, so it should be pretty
> hot. Chicken and turkey, however, I brown minimally.
>
> On adding gradually - yes, I do this. I pretty much assumed that would
> be the way to go.
>
> I've generally used a spoon instead of a whisk, in part because of the
> practical issue I've faced (flattening and spreading lumps against the
> side of the pan)
>

Alex, I guess I wasn't clear. IME, neither the cooked roux (very brown or
not) nor the liquid should be very hot. If anything, just warm. The
culprit causing the clumping and lumpiness is heat. Flour in any form will
"sieze" almost instantly when liquid is added to it if there's too much
heat. If you allow the roux to cool off (not cold) and you add liquid
that's just tepid, you can add the liquid gradually while whisking it
together (off the heat) and have a smooth blended mixture. You can then
apply the heat, whisking constantly, and bring to a boil as it thickens.
Use a whisk, not a spoon. At this point there should be no flattening or
spreading required.

HTH

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Alex Rast wrote on 03 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:37:13 GMT in
> 9>,
> wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com (Wayne Boatwright) wrote :
>
> >On Thu 02 Mar 2006 06:20:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Alex
> >Rast?
> >
> >> at Fri, 03 Mar 2006 00:04:15 GMT in
> >> >, (AC) wrote :
> >>
> ...
> >>>here are some basic gravy tips that i've learned from trial and
> >>>error
> >>>
> >>>...if there is only fat, the result will be smooth.
> >>>once all of the flour is well coated and cooked/toasted, you can
> >>>add the liquid/ju willy nilly and it won't clump. it may require
> >>>some stirring to smooth.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact,
> >> there seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to
> >> clump that I don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe.
> >> There's never any problem with making it smooth during the roux
> >> stage. And then I can brown the roux as desired. But then, when I
> >> add liquid - usually hot broth, occasionally hot water -
> >> invariably, the roux clumps badly. ...
> >
> >You are possibly adding the a too hot liquid too quickly to a too
> >roux.
>
> Deciphering, am I to understand that your concern is my liquid is too
> hot and my roux too cold? If so, interesting. I'd always assumed that
> hot liquid was best (after years of watching my dad, an accomplished
> gravy- master, use liquid that had been boiling moments ago). Perhaps
> this has been an issue.
>
> >I find it easier to avoid lumps by letting the cooked roux cool
> >slightly, and only gradually adding warm (not hot) liquid to it while
> >whisking briskly. Once it is all added, bringing up the heat to a
> >boil.
> > That never lumps for me.
>
> With beef gravy, I like to brown the roux a lot, so it should be
> pretty hot. Chicken and turkey, however, I brown minimally.
>
> On adding gradually - yes, I do this. I pretty much assumed that would
> be the way to go.
>
> I've generally used a spoon instead of a whisk, in part because of the
> practical issue I've faced (flattening and spreading lumps against the
> side of the pan)
>

A wand or stick blender really does away with lumps.

--
-Alan

Alex Rast wrote:

>
> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
> seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
> don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
> problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
> the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
> occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly.

Add the liquid slowly and stir vigorously. The idea is to keep the flour
spread sparsely through the liquid and not giving it s chance to cook together
in a glob. I have a sort of wire whisk that is great for sauces. It is flat
rather than rounded on the action end.




> I can declump
> it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
> the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
> insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is
> the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
> doing improperly?
>
> --
> Alex Rast
>
> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 01:20:23 -0000, Alex Rast wrote:

> Unfortunately, I've not found the last point to be true. In fact, there
> seems to be to me some "magic" behind getting gravy not to clump that I
> don't understand. I do a roux just as you describe. There's never any
> problem with making it smooth during the roux stage. And then I can brown
> the roux as desired. But then, when I add liquid - usually hot broth,
> occasionally hot water - invariably, the roux clumps badly. I can declump
> it, by stirring for about 1/2 hour, carefully pressing the clumps against
> the side and spreading them out, then stirring back in, but this is
> insanely tedious. It doesn't matter how much liquid is added, the result is
> the same, it would seem, every time. Can anyone speculate what I might be
> doing improperly?

My epiphany was to use a flat whisk to stir gravy. It comes out lump
free every time.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:14:42 -0500, Teri wrote:

> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
> quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
> suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
> directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken properly -
> can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?).
> Thanks.

I have no idea what Mimi's "sticky" chicken is.... but if it's really
sticky (is honey an ingredient?), I don't think a flour based gravy
would be appropriate. So, unlike all the suggestions I see below, I'd
go with arrowroot as a thickener - cornstarch if you don't have
arrowroot on hand and if you have a lot of juice, just reduce it a bit
and go with that.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

"Teri" > wrote in message
...
> I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
> quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
> suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
> directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
> properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
> thicken?). Thanks.
> Teri

I've never made this recipe, but I do make gravy.
Gravy is really simple, just takes practice. For pan gravy from roasted meat
drippings I usually use a slurry. Combine your pan juices with whatever
stock you want to make enough liquid. Combine 1/4 c flour with 1/2 cup of
stock or water in a small jar and shake the heck out of it until it is
smooth. Bring juices to a boil and whisk in the slurry. Allow to boil 1
minute. It should be enough slurry for 2 cups of gravy.

kimberly

Nexis wrote:
> "Teri" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a large
> > quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices? (If you
> > suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe and
> > directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
> > properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
> > thicken?). Thanks.
> > Teri
>
> I've never made this recipe, but I do make gravy.
> Gravy is really simple, just takes practice. For pan gravy from roasted meat
> drippings I usually use a slurry. Combine your pan juices with whatever
> stock you want to make enough liquid. Combine 1/4 c flour with 1/2 cup of
> stock or water in a small jar and shake the heck out of it until it is
> smooth. Bring juices to a boil and whisk in the slurry. Allow to boil 1
> minute. It should be enough slurry for 2 cups of gravy.

Slurries are underrated. I almost never waste pan juices. I consider
them the most precious product. Esp. turkey drippings. I often say
that if I won the lottery I would have a dozen turkeys roasted a week.
I'd give 11 of the to a homeless shelter, but reserve all the drippings
from all.
>
> kimberly

--Bryan

On Thu 02 Mar 2006 10:22:20p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Food Snob?

>
> Nexis wrote:
>> "Teri" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released quite a
>> > large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the pan juices?
>> > (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would appreciate a recipe
>> > and directions - i seem to have a problem getting gravies to thicken
>> > properly - can anyone explain the 'science' behind getting gravies to
>> > thicken?). Thanks.
>> > Teri
>>
>> I've never made this recipe, but I do make gravy.
>> Gravy is really simple, just takes practice. For pan gravy from roasted
>> meat drippings I usually use a slurry. Combine your pan juices with
>> whatever stock you want to make enough liquid. Combine 1/4 c flour with
>> 1/2 cup of stock or water in a small jar and shake the heck out of it
>> until it is smooth. Bring juices to a boil and whisk in the slurry.
>> Allow to boil 1 minute. It should be enough slurry for 2 cups of gravy.
>
> Slurries are underrated. I almost never waste pan juices. I consider
> them the most precious product. Esp. turkey drippings. I often say
> that if I won the lottery I would have a dozen turkeys roasted a week.
> I'd give 11 of the to a homeless shelter, but reserve all the drippings
> from all.
>>
>> kimberly
>
> --Bryan

hehehe! I'm not overly fond of turkey, but I love using the drippings/

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote on 02 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> On Thu 02 Mar 2006 10:22:20p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Food
> Snob?
>
> >
> > Nexis wrote:
> >> "Teri" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released
> >> > quite a large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the
> >> > pan juices? (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would
> >> > appreciate a recipe and directions - i seem to have a problem
> >> > getting gravies to thicken properly - can anyone explain the
> >> > 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?). Thanks.
> >> > Teri
> >>
> >> I've never made this recipe, but I do make gravy.
> >> Gravy is really simple, just takes practice. For pan gravy from
> >> roasted meat drippings I usually use a slurry. Combine your pan
> >> juices with whatever stock you want to make enough liquid. Combine
> >> 1/4 c flour with 1/2 cup of stock or water in a small jar and shake
> >> the heck out of it until it is smooth. Bring juices to a boil and
> >> whisk in the slurry. Allow to boil 1 minute. It should be enough
> >> slurry for 2 cups of gravy.
> >
> > Slurries are underrated. I almost never waste pan juices. I
> > consider them the most precious product. Esp. turkey drippings. I
> > often say that if I won the lottery I would have a dozen turkeys
> > roasted a week. I'd give 11 of the to a homeless shelter, but
> > reserve all the drippings from all.
> >>
> >> kimberly
> >
> > --Bryan
>
> hehehe! I'm not overly fond of turkey, but I love using the
> drippings/
>

I add brandy (about 1 oz.) to the turkey gravy...Makes it even nicer.

--
-Alan

On Fri 03 Mar 2006 07:27:08p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Mr Libido
Incognito?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 02 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>
>> On Thu 02 Mar 2006 10:22:20p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Food
>> Snob?
>>
>> >
>> > Nexis wrote:
>> >> "Teri" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > I'm cooking Mimi's sticky chicken and see that it's released
>> >> > quite a large quantity of pan juices. What do you do with the
>> >> > pan juices? (If you suggest making a gravy of sorts, i would
>> >> > appreciate a recipe and directions - i seem to have a problem
>> >> > getting gravies to thicken properly - can anyone explain the
>> >> > 'science' behind getting gravies to thicken?). Thanks.
>> >> > Teri
>> >>
>> >> I've never made this recipe, but I do make gravy.
>> >> Gravy is really simple, just takes practice. For pan gravy from
>> >> roasted meat drippings I usually use a slurry. Combine your pan
>> >> juices with whatever stock you want to make enough liquid. Combine
>> >> 1/4 c flour with 1/2 cup of stock or water in a small jar and shake
>> >> the heck out of it until it is smooth. Bring juices to a boil and
>> >> whisk in the slurry. Allow to boil 1 minute. It should be enough
>> >> slurry for 2 cups of gravy.
>> >
>> > Slurries are underrated. I almost never waste pan juices. I
>> > consider them the most precious product. Esp. turkey drippings. I
>> > often say that if I won the lottery I would have a dozen turkeys
>> > roasted a week. I'd give 11 of the to a homeless shelter, but
>> > reserve all the drippings from all.
>> >>
>> >> kimberly
>> >
>> > --Bryan
>>
>> hehehe! I'm not overly fond of turkey, but I love using the
>> drippings/
>>
>
> I add brandy (about 1 oz.) to the turkey gravy...Makes it even nicer.
>

Yes, I bet it does!

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

In article >,
Mr Libido Incognito > wrote:

> I add brandy (about 1 oz.) to the turkey gravy...Makes it even nicer.

Or bourbon.

Regards,
Ranee (who has a turkey in the freezer and is now thinking of thawing
it and cooking it sometime this week)

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

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