On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
wrote:

>I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
>They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
>
>Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
>Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
>etc.etc.

Not to forget the turkey.

>I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
>
>Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
>Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....

>What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?

I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!

fkoe

Hayabusa wrote: ,

> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> wrote:
>
>> I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
>> They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
>>
>> Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
>> Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
>> etc.etc.
>
> Not to forget the turkey.
>
>> I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
>>
>> Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
>> Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
>
>> What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
>
> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!

Or better: soc.history.medieval

Peter Alaca wrote:
> Hayabusa wrote: ,
>
> > On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
> >> They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
> >>
> >> Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
> >> Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
> >> etc.etc.
> >
> > Not to forget the turkey.
> >
> >> I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
> >>
> >> Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
> >> Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
> >
> >> What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
> >
> > I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!
>
> Or better: soc.history.medieval

Much of what is left that we eat today eg bread, porridge, fish, meat,
beans, lettuce, tomatoes, peas, radishes, carrots, various fruits and
nuts, berries, butter, cheese, milk, beer etc etc etc

Try this site.

http://www.godecookery.com/godeboke/godeboke.htm

Much of these dishs as are most foods today, were developed and eaten
mainly for the rich!

Hayabusa wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> wrote:
>
> >I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
> >They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
> >
> >Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
> >Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
> >etc.etc.
>
> Not to forget the turkey.
>
> >I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
> >
> >Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
> >Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
>
> >What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
>
> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!
>
> fkoe

Parsnips were used in much the same way as potatoes to day. A stew
would consist of whatever ingredients were available preferably with
herbs or spices .The stew was poured on to bread on a plate.

Water was undrinkable and tea, coffee and soda water were still in the
future.. Vast amounts of beer were consumed in Northern Europe and wine
where available.

There was no shortage of wine in Southern Europe.

B C.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Hayabusa wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
>> >They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
>> >
>> >Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
>> >Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
>> >etc.etc.
>>
>> Not to forget the turkey.
>>
>> >I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
>> >
>> >Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
>> >Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
>>
>> >What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
>>
>> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!
>>
>> fkoe
>
> Parsnips were used in much the same way as potatoes to day. A stew
> would consist of whatever ingredients were available preferably with
> herbs or spices .The stew was poured on to bread on a plate.
>
> Water was undrinkable and tea, coffee and soda water were still in the
> future.. Vast amounts of beer were consumed in Northern Europe and wine
> where available.
>
> There was no shortage of wine in Southern Europe.
>
> B C.
>

The poor people used to eat food made from rye, and a lot of them got ergot
poisoning. The richer people didn't seem to get it because their diet didn't
consist so much or any rye.

Dyl.

Dylan Sung wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Hayabusa wrote:
> >> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
> >> >They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
> >> >
> >> >Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
> >> >Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
> >> >etc.etc.
> >>
> >> Not to forget the turkey.
> >>
> >> >I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
> >> >
> >> >Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
> >> >Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
> >>
> >> >What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
> >>
> >> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!
> >>
> >> fkoe
> >
> > Parsnips were used in much the same way as potatoes to day. A stew
> > would consist of whatever ingredients were available preferably with
> > herbs or spices .The stew was poured on to bread on a plate.
> >
> > Water was undrinkable and tea, coffee and soda water were still in the
> > future.. Vast amounts of beer were consumed in Northern Europe and wine
> > where available.
> >
> > There was no shortage of wine in Southern Europe.
> >
> > B C.
> >
>
> The poor people used to eat food made from rye, and a lot of them got ergot
> poisoning. The richer people didn't seem to get it because their diet didn't
> consist so much or any rye.
>
> Dyl.

Ergot poisoning was one of the many hazards of being poor. Rye was
mixed with whatever other cereal might have been available and brewed
to form gruel or porridge.

Round the world, the poor largely subsisted on a monotonous diet of the
cheapest crop available. Corn-meal was basic for the American slaves.
Corn(maize) was exported to Africa and the poor African diet is also
corn meal, more usually known as mealie meal.

Further East, rice was and is the essential source of food for the
poor.

Italians developed pasta and pizza from their cereals. Spaghetti
neapolitane is one of the cheapest forms of pasta as its only other
essential ingredient is tomato juice. Pastas in the richer northern
part of Italy usually contain meat e.g., spaghetti carbonara.

B C.

> skrev i meddelandet
oups.com...
>
> Dylan Sung wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > >
> > > Hayabusa wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
> > >> >They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
> > >> >
> > >> >Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
> > >> >Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
> > >> >etc.etc.
> > >>
> > >> Not to forget the turkey.
> > >>
> > >> >I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
> > >> >
> > >> >Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
> > >> >Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
> > >>
> > >> >What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
> > >>
> > >> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!

The person writing that definitely were wrong.
The differences in meals, herbs and type of food, between the countries that
had contact with NA in Pre-Columbian days and the others strongly suggest
that this IS inside topic for sci.archaeology.
Take for example a closer look at the way the dried cod from Greenland were
cooked and served in Sweden, Norway, Basqian and north Portugal areas from
those days up to modern age and compare it with the way dried cod was served
in France, England, Germany and Italy.....
> > >>
> > >> fkoe
> > >
> > > Parsnips were used in much the same way as potatoes to day. A stew
> > > would consist of whatever ingredients were available preferably with
> > > herbs or spices .The stew was poured on to bread on a plate.
> > >
> > > Water was undrinkable and tea, coffee and soda water were still in the
> > > future.. Vast amounts of beer were consumed in Northern Europe and
wine
> > > where available.
> > >
> > > There was no shortage of wine in Southern Europe.
> > >
> > > B C.
> > >
> >
> > The poor people used to eat food made from rye, and a lot of them got
ergot
> > poisoning. The richer people didn't seem to get it because their diet
didn't
> > consist so much or any rye.
> >
> > Dyl.
>
> Ergot poisoning was one of the many hazards of being poor. Rye was
> mixed with whatever other cereal might have been available and brewed
> to form gruel or porridge.
>
> Round the world, the poor largely subsisted on a monotonous diet of the
> cheapest crop available. Corn-meal was basic for the American slaves.
> Corn(maize) was exported to Africa and the poor African diet is also
> corn meal, more usually known as mealie meal.
>
> Further East, rice was and is the essential source of food for the
> poor.

How far back in history can the rice be traced as the most essential source
for food by the poor?


>neapolitane is one of the cheapest forms of pasta as its only other
> essential ingredient is tomato juice. Pastas in the richer northern
> part of Italy usually contain meat e.g., spaghetti carbonara.
>
> B C.

Inger E

I E_Johansson wrote:
> > skrev i meddelandet
> oups.com...
> >
> > Dylan Sung wrote:
> > > > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > > >
> > > > Hayabusa wrote:
> > > >> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
> > > >> >They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
> > > >> >Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
> > > >> >etc.etc.
> > > >>
> > > >> Not to forget the turkey.
> > > >>
> > > >> >I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
> > > >> >Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
> > > >>
> > > >> >What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
> > > >>
> > > >> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!
>
> The person writing that definitely were wrong.
> The differences in meals, herbs and type of food, between the countries that
> had contact with NA in Pre-Columbian days and the others strongly suggest
> that this IS inside topic for sci.archaeology.
> Take for example a closer look at the way the dried cod from Greenland were
> cooked and served in Sweden, Norway, Basqian and north Portugal areas from
> those days up to modern age and compare it with the way dried cod was served
> in France, England, Germany and Italy.....
> > > >>
> > > >> fkoe
> > > >
> > > > Parsnips were used in much the same way as potatoes to day. A stew
> > > > would consist of whatever ingredients were available preferably with
> > > > herbs or spices .The stew was poured on to bread on a plate.
> > > >
> > > > Water was undrinkable and tea, coffee and soda water were still in the
> > > > future.. Vast amounts of beer were consumed in Northern Europe and
> wine
> > > > where available.
> > > >
> > > > There was no shortage of wine in Southern Europe.
> > > >
> > > > B C.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The poor people used to eat food made from rye, and a lot of them got
> ergot
> > > poisoning. The richer people didn't seem to get it because their diet
> didn't
> > > consist so much or any rye.
> > >
> > > Dyl.
> >
> > Ergot poisoning was one of the many hazards of being poor. Rye was
> > mixed with whatever other cereal might have been available and brewed
> > to form gruel or porridge.
> >
> > Round the world, the poor largely subsisted on a monotonous diet of the
> > cheapest crop available. Corn-meal was basic for the American slaves.
> > Corn(maize) was exported to Africa and the poor African diet is also
> > corn meal, more usually known as mealie meal.
> >
> > Further East, rice was and is the essential source of food for the
> > poor.
>
> How far back in history can the rice be traced as the most essential source
> for food by the poor?
>
>
> >neapolitane is one of the cheapest forms of pasta as its only other
> > essential ingredient is tomato juice. Pastas in the richer northern
> > part of Italy usually contain meat e.g., spaghetti carbonara.
> >
> > B C.
>
> Inger E

I cannot say how far back in history, rice became the staple diet of
the poor in East and South East Asia.

By analogy with the porridge/gruel of Northern Europe, the pasta of
Southern Europe and the maize/corn of America, it is likely that the
poor began to consume rice as their basic diet as soon as it became
widely available.

I consider that this is an appropriate topic for an Archaeology Group
as conventional history was traditionally more interested in the
affairs of monarchs and aristocrats than food.

Archaeological excavations and analysis of the contents of
stomachs,intestines, turds and ashes helps provide information about
diets.

B C.

I E_Johansson wrote: ,
>>>> Hayabusa wrote:

>>>>> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!

> The person writing that definitely were wrong.
> The differences in meals, herbs and type of food, between the
> countries that had contact with NA in Pre-Columbian days and the
> others strongly suggest that this IS inside topic for sci.archaeology.

That "person" was Hayabusa , and what did he write?
" I think it is a good idea to cross-post
this to sci.archaeology! "

Learn how to read English.

--
º°º°º°º < Peter Alaca > º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°º°

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:35:24 GMT, in sci.archaeology, "I E_Johansson"
<inger > wrote:

>
> skrev i meddelandet
roups.com...
>>
>> Dylan Sung wrote:
>> > > wrote in message
>> > oups.com...
>> > >
>> > > Hayabusa wrote:
>> > >> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
>> > >> >They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
>> > >> >Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
>> > >> >etc.etc.
>> > >>
>> > >> Not to forget the turkey.
>> > >>
>> > >> >I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
>> > >> >Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
>> > >>
>> > >> >What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
>> > >>
>> > >> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!
>
>The person writing that definitely were wrong.
>The differences in meals, herbs and type of food, between the countries that
>had contact with NA in Pre-Columbian days and the others strongly suggest
>that this IS inside topic for sci.archaeology.

That's not the relevant issue. The issue is whether the evidence is text
based on material based.

>Take for example a closer look at the way the dried cod from Greenland were
>cooked and served in Sweden, Norway, Basqian and north Portugal areas from
>those days up to modern age and compare it with the way dried cod was served
>in France, England, Germany and Italy.....
>> > >>
>> > >> fkoe
>> > >
>> > > Parsnips were used in much the same way as potatoes to day. A stew
>> > > would consist of whatever ingredients were available preferably with
>> > > herbs or spices .The stew was poured on to bread on a plate.
>> > >
>> > > Water was undrinkable and tea, coffee and soda water were still in the
>> > > future.. Vast amounts of beer were consumed in Northern Europe and
>wine
>> > > where available.
>> > >
>> > > There was no shortage of wine in Southern Europe.
>> > >
>> > > B C.
>> > >
>> >
>> > The poor people used to eat food made from rye, and a lot of them got
>ergot
>> > poisoning. The richer people didn't seem to get it because their diet
>didn't
>> > consist so much or any rye.
>> >
>> > Dyl.
>>
>> Ergot poisoning was one of the many hazards of being poor. Rye was
>> mixed with whatever other cereal might have been available and brewed
>> to form gruel or porridge.
>>
>> Round the world, the poor largely subsisted on a monotonous diet of the
>> cheapest crop available. Corn-meal was basic for the American slaves.
>> Corn(maize) was exported to Africa and the poor African diet is also
>> corn meal, more usually known as mealie meal.
>>
>> Further East, rice was and is the essential source of food for the
>> poor.
>
>How far back in history can the rice be traced as the most essential source
>for food by the poor?
>
>
>>neapolitane is one of the cheapest forms of pasta as its only other
>> essential ingredient is tomato juice. Pastas in the richer northern
>> part of Italy usually contain meat e.g., spaghetti carbonara.
>>
>> B C.
>
>Inger E
>
>
--
Doug Weller --
Doug & Helen's Dogs http://www.dougandhelen.com
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:09:23 -0000, "Dylan Sung"
> wrote:

>

>
>The poor people used to eat food made from rye, and a lot of them got ergot
>poisoning. The richer people didn't seem to get it because their diet didn't
>consist so much or any rye.
>

What was the staple food in the Roman era? Wheat?

I know of one experiment - from one of the 2000yo bodies that was
found in a north European bog, and which was exceptionally well
preserved, they reconstructed his last meal from the content of his
stomach. It was all vegetarian, some of the seeds are even
domesticated today, but back then they only had the wild form. The
researchers took care to use only those ingredients that they had been
able to identify, and cooked a meal as close as possible to the
original. In the end, they were fairly sure they had arrived at the
real thing, but to modern noses it stank so badly that not one of them
made an attempt to taste it.

I read someplace that most of the modern legumes (several forms of
cabbage - red, China, Brussels, other), lettuce, spinach, plus the
modern garden fruit (raspberry, currants) were generated or
domesticated in monastery gardens during the early medieval age. That
reduces the Roman grocery list quite a bit. But what was then
available?

fkoe

Hayabusa wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 20:19:00 -0700, "<RJ>" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I've been reading a book about "Latin American Cuisine".
>>They started to list the foods that came from the New World;
>>
>>Corn Potatoes Yams Chili Peppers
>>Beans Squash Tomatoes Chocolate,
>>etc.etc.
>
>
> Not to forget the turkey.
>
>
>>I can't imagine a meal without one of these ingredients.
>>
>>Pre-Columbian European cooking must've been pretty dull.
>>Cabbage, beets, pork, grain-based starches.....
>
>
>>What made up a common meal in 14th century Europe ?
>
>
> I think it is a good idea to cross-post this to sci.archaeology!

And <rec.food.historic>

Pastorio