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In article >,
Joseph Littleshoes > wrote: > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote: > > > I, for one, am entertained by thread drift, but the original topic is > > fascinating enough to follow up on IMHO! There are more than just > > "moral" issues at stake. > > -- > > Om. > > Ever read the novel 'The Sheep Look Up"? it is speculation on a possible > result of centralizing the processing and distribution of food by giant > multi national corporations. > > As late as the 1960' the French experienced a negative result of trying > to centralize bread production, resulting in rye poisoning. Now days > French bread is made locally from local grains. > > In the novel mentioned above, the poisoning is probly deliberate but it > might have been accidental, not quite 'solyent green'; but that only > cause the population had not reached the levels of the fiction of > 'solyent green' however in the novel the powers that be felt threatened > enough to allow or cause to happen a devastating poisoning of the > population all the while keeping there own food sources separate from > that of the masses. > > While it is fiction it seems plausible to me. > --- > JL I'll have to check that book at the Library. ;-) Sounds interesting. Fortunately, I'm not that paranoid....... -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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In article . com>,
"Max Hollywood Harris" > wrote: > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote: > > Rib eye... ;-d > > > > Half raw in the middle, well seared on the outside. > > With pink sea salt (from Hawaii), three color pepper, and some very > expensive olive oil. I use a product called "real salt" that is a sort of raw salt heavy in trace minerals, and I LOVE the three color pepper! It's all I use. :-) I recently switched to Grapeseed oil tho' for frying steaks as I can get the oil hotter without smoking up the house. Olive oil tho' is what I use for nearly all other cooking. > > Else, dusted with Chipotle, cumin, garlic, cilantro, and mexican > oregano, pre searing. Ooh that sounds good! I have a live Mexican Oregano plant in the herb garden! It blooms all year long and I prefer to use the flowers over the leaves. Slightly milder flavor. > > Or with a generous chunk of maitre d'hotel butter. > > Few cuts beat the Rib Eye, rare. No doubt. Indeedy! ;-d Serve with a good Merlot. > > -Hollywood, who is having one tonight, with my Chili Fixin Butter Cheers! > -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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On 2005-08-18, Joseph Littleshoes > wrote:
> Legislation exists in most countries requiring canned foods to be > 'fortified' with various vitamins and minerals and often times chemical > preservatives. You are so full of it. Now vitamins and minerals and chemicals are "live food"? You can't even keep your own argument on track. Besides, no preservatives are needed in canning. Canning *IS* a preservative. > Home canning can be done at temperatures & times that do not render the > food dead & sterile to begin with.... It's obvious you know zip about canning. Home canning has the same temp/time requirements as commercial canning. > The type of person that would reject any source no matter how > respectable if it disagreed with their opinion. So far, opinions is all you've given us. nb |
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:22:01 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote: >> DH claimed his tastebuds >> had an orgasm. Ah...er... naw, too easy. TBR "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956) "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent, but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption." |
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In article >,
Joseph Littleshoes > wrote: >How long can you keep limes fresh on a 2 year voyage? I do not know >where you are getting your "facts" but i suggset you re check your >sources. No, you're the one who needs to recheck sources. I suggest you do so. Hint: Start with the etymology of "limey." >It takes years to suffer from lead poisoning, the early canned foods Wrong again. You really need to educate yourself, bucko. The researchers who found the skeletons fron this expedition and performed tests showed conclusively that they died of lead poisoning. Sorry if the facts get in the way of your preconceptions, but there you are. -A |
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Arri London wrote: > Meat from a petri dish? > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html That is really cool. They can control the nutritional content and the viruses it is exposed to, as well - much more healthy alternative! -L. |
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Arri London wrote:
> >Meat from a petri dish? >http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html Pretty well anytime that you aren't dining with cannibals. Of course for those strange, reality challenged, totally delusional people who equate killing an animal with murder, perhaps the answer for them is to avoid eating anywhere except for the "Restaurant At The End Of The Universe". After all, if your dinner willingly commits suicide it can hardly be regarded as murder.<g> Regards David -- To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line. All other mail is automatically deleted. |
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Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
> notbob wrote: > > >>On 2005-08-17, Joseph Littleshoes > wrote: >> >> >>>The 'c rations' and 'astronaut' foods are processed and then have added >>>nutriants combined to make them life supporting. Same with any canned >>>food you buy in a market. >> >>Bullshit! Canned food in supermarkets usually has only salt added to >>it. > > > Legislation exists in most countries requiring canned foods to be > 'fortified' with various vitamins and minerals and often times chemical > preservatives. Nope. Canned foods need only to be processed appropriately to become sterile. >>I know, I've worked in a cannery. The only thing in a can of >>green beans is beans, water, and salt. According to your "dead food" >>cronies, food that has been cooked as long as properly canned foods >>are cooked is "dead food". > > Essentially it is, that is why it must be fortified. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FORTIFIED. The vast preponderance of canned foods have only the liquids to process and a minimum seasoning unless deliberately spiced heavily. > Back in the Early > 1800' when it was first being done by people such as Nicolas Appert the > chemical composition of foods and nutrients were not known and is why > many explorers and armies as well as individuals suffered from > malnutrition from trying to live on them. Many important nutrients are > water soluble and merely cooking them in water reduces their nutritional > value. Your history is simply wrong, and you don't understand what actually happened and why. > Now a days if you can get past the taste of them they will keep you > alive, but if you lived only and exclusively on commercially preserved > fruits and veggies you would eventually waste away. And the evidence for this opinion comes from...? > Home canning can be done at temperatures & times that do not render the > food dead & sterile to begin with and thus no added fortification is > necessary. Bullshit. Home canning in boiling water is at the temperature of, well boiling water just like the temperature of boiling water is in a cannery. Pressure canning happens at pressures and times comparable (but generally shorter) than home canning. >>>But even then, a steady diet of canned foods >>>without any fresh veggies or meats or grains would result in a slow >>>deterioration of health. Repeating it won't transform an opinion into fact. >>More health food nutbag propaganda. You can prove none of it. > > Look up malnutrition, food preservation, vitamins, additives, > fortification, canning, lyophilization etc. etc. I wrote the additives section in the Oxford Encyclopedia. Littleshoes is flat wrong. > Since you are the one deciding "I" can not prove it do your own > research. > > You remind me of the quote of Francois de La Rochefoucauld "There are > few people who are more often in the wrong than those who cannot endure > to be so." > > The type of person that would reject any source no matter how > respectable if it disagreed with their opinion. Yep. Pastorio |
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zxcvbob wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote: > >> Joseph Littleshoes wrote: >> >>> Mr Libido Incognito wrote: >>> >>>> Arri London wrote on 16 Aug 2005 in rec.food.cooking >>>> >>>>> Meat from a petri dish? >>>>> >>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html >>>>> >>>> Murder? The act of killing somebody?....I prefer Cows that I haven't >>>> met... >>>> >>> A person can not survive on dead food, Whether its animal flesh or >>> vegetable matter it must have a degree of "life" left in it to be >>> nutritious. >> >> I'm glad you put quotes around "life" in that sentence. Do, please, >> define what this new kind of "life" is that falls outside the normal >> one that includes metabolizing, growing and reproducing. What kind of >> "life" does a rib roast have? >> >> What is "dead" food? How does one remove this mysterious "life" if one >> would like to? >> >>> Of course one can cook vegetable dead and then reinsert >>> vitamins and minerals into them but then just try to live off that. >> >> What can this actually mean? Obviously the next thing below about >> water and air doesn't apply because the references here are to >> vitamins and minerals, not bacteria. >> >>> Even the water we drink and the air we breath have microscopic life >>> forms in it that are assimilated (murdered) by us "resistance is >>> futile". >> >> It appears as though you're saying that whatever we eat has to be >> contaminated with microbes of some sort. Everything we eat is. >> >> What are you talking about here with this "live" and "dead" food? >> >> Pastorio > > He's making up new terminology as he goes along. It's impossible to > lose an argument when you get to define all the words; well, I guess one > could still lose if they were stupid enough. I'm sorry, I can't see exactly who that finger is pointing at. I'm still waiting with bated breath for LittleWit to detail all this cool now information so I can be modern and up to date in my nutritional knowledge. No, seriously... Pastorio |
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OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article .com>, > wrote: > > > None Given wrote: > > > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message > > > ... > > > > Rib eye... ;-d > > > > > > > > Half raw in the middle, well seared on the outside. > > > > > > > > > Last night we had Rib eye steak that was so good DH claimed his > tastebuds > > > had an orgasm. > > > > > > -- > > > No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > > > > I think I will grill one up tonight. With mushrooms and onions > sauteed > > in butter on top and a side of Ceasar Salad with tons of garlic and > > parmasan cheese. Man, I love the low-carb lifestyle. > > > > TC > > > > Lordy. You just got me drooling. ;-d > > I've finally learned how to use dried Shitake mushrooms. > They are only $6.00 per lb. at the asian market and the weight ratio > of > dry to fresh is 10 to 1 so it's equal to 10 lbs. of fresh shitake! > Fresh > ones run about $8.00 per lb. so the dried are FAR more affordable! > > I have an old 1930 English language Chinese cook book by a woman named Dolly Chow that goes on and on about the dried 'black mushrooms' to the degree that i am thinking about trying to use some. They are sold very inexpensively in 10 - 50 pound bags at a local "China town" as well as in any smaller quantity one might want. I like the idea of dried mushrooms but have never used them, im wondering just how different the 'black' mushrooms are from ordinary European - American mushrooms. > > > I take the dried ones, toss them into a ziplock and fill it with > water, > then leave that in the 'frige for a couple of days. I have heard of an hour or so in hot water and then using the water as well as the mushroom but i would be a bit nervous about leaving them for 'a couple of days'. > > > Shitake IMHO REALLY compliments the taste of steaks! I like them sauted with other veggies, good in omelets, have not had them specifically with steak but adore 'oyster' mushrooms with a pot roast. --- JL > > > Take they rehydrated mushrooms, remove the stem and discard. The stem > is > WAY too tough to be of any use. Slice the caps about 1/4" thick then > sautee in butter and olive oil along with the onions. > > Top the steak with that........ > > I know what you mean about low carbing. :-) > -- > Om. > > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack > Nicholson |
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OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> I recently switched to Grapeseed oil tho' for frying steaks as I can > get > the oil hotter without smoking up the house. Olive oil tho' is what I > use for nearly all other cooking. > I only use grape seed oil for beef these days. IMO it adds a flavor to the beef no other oil comes close to. Of course i do not care for olive oil so i expect others may not be quite so enthusiastic about grape seed oil as i am. --- JL > > > > Else, dusted with Chipotle, cumin, garlic, cilantro, and mexican > > oregano, pre searing. > > Ooh that sounds good! I have a live Mexican Oregano plant in the herb > > garden! It blooms all year long and I prefer to use the flowers over > the > leaves. Slightly milder flavor. > > > > > Or with a generous chunk of maitre d'hotel butter. > > > > Few cuts beat the Rib Eye, rare. No doubt. > > Indeedy! ;-d > > Serve with a good Merlot. > > > > > -Hollywood, who is having one tonight, with my Chili Fixin Butter > > Cheers! > > > > -- > Om. > > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack > Nicholson |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:51:49 GMT, Joseph Littleshoes
> wrote: >> Shitake With a name like that, it's bound to be a big hit with this bunch. TBR "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956) "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent, but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption." |
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Bob (this one) wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote: > >> Bob (this one) wrote: >> >>> Joseph Littleshoes wrote: >>> >>>> Mr Libido Incognito wrote: >>>> >>>>> Arri London wrote on 16 Aug 2005 in rec.food.cooking >>>>> >>>>>> Meat from a petri dish? >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html >>>>>> >>>>> Murder? The act of killing somebody?....I prefer Cows that I haven't >>>>> met... >>>>> >>>> A person can not survive on dead food, Whether its animal flesh or >>>> vegetable matter it must have a degree of "life" left in it to be >>>> nutritious. >>> >>> >>> I'm glad you put quotes around "life" in that sentence. Do, please, >>> define what this new kind of "life" is that falls outside the normal >>> one that includes metabolizing, growing and reproducing. What kind of >>> "life" does a rib roast have? >>> >>> What is "dead" food? How does one remove this mysterious "life" if >>> one would like to? >>> >>>> Of course one can cook vegetable dead and then reinsert >>>> vitamins and minerals into them but then just try to live off that. >>> >>> >>> What can this actually mean? Obviously the next thing below about >>> water and air doesn't apply because the references here are to >>> vitamins and minerals, not bacteria. >>> >>>> Even the water we drink and the air we breath have microscopic life >>>> forms in it that are assimilated (murdered) by us "resistance is >>>> futile". >>> >>> >>> It appears as though you're saying that whatever we eat has to be >>> contaminated with microbes of some sort. Everything we eat is. >>> >>> What are you talking about here with this "live" and "dead" food? >>> >>> Pastorio >> >> >> He's making up new terminology as he goes along. It's impossible to >> lose an argument when you get to define all the words; well, I guess >> one could still lose if they were stupid enough. > > > I'm sorry, I can't see exactly who that finger is pointing at. I'm still > waiting with bated breath for LittleWit to detail all this cool now > information so I can be modern and up to date in my nutritional knowledge. > > No, seriously... > > Pastorio The part about making up terminology was pointed at Joseph Littleshoes. The part about still losing the argument if one was stupid enough wasn't referring to anybody in particular; it was just a standard disclaimer so people wouldn't beat me up for stating an absolute. Best regards, Bob |
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"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
... > A.C. wrote: >> notbob wrote: >> >> >>>It's complete and utter nonsense propagated by organic/natural food >>>zealots. US military forces survived just fine on "dead food" >>>(C-rats) for months on end, busting their hump every day. The >>>astronauts on the space station are living just fine on "dead food". >>>Dead food, live food ...its all just more silliness from the lunatic >>>fringe. >> >> >> no doubt, i wonder how all of those american civil war soldiers survived >> on hard >> tack. oh wait, it must've been the live weevils in the hard tack that >> kept them >> alive... nevermind :-P >> >> > > > There's more truth to that than you would like to know. Where do you > think Vegans and other strict vegetarians get their vitamin B12? > Vegetarians get it from eggs and dairy products. And what is a "strict" vegetarian? You either do not eat animal flesh (including fish) at all, in which case you are a vegetarian, or you do eat it, in which case you are not. Vegans are likely to need B12 supplements. -- Peter Aitken |
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"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
... > In article .com>, > wrote: > >> None Given wrote: >> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message >> > ... >> > > Rib eye... ;-d >> > > >> > > Half raw in the middle, well seared on the outside. >> > >> > >> > Last night we had Rib eye steak that was so good DH claimed his >> > tastebuds >> > had an orgasm. >> > >> > -- >> > No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes >> >> I think I will grill one up tonight. With mushrooms and onions sauteed >> in butter on top and a side of Ceasar Salad with tons of garlic and >> parmasan cheese. Man, I love the low-carb lifestyle. >> >> TC >> > > Lordy. You just got me drooling. ;-d > > I've finally learned how to use dried Shitake mushrooms. > They are only $6.00 per lb. at the asian market and the weight ratio of > dry to fresh is 10 to 1 so it's equal to 10 lbs. of fresh shitake! Fresh > ones run about $8.00 per lb. so the dried are FAR more affordable! > > I take the dried ones, toss them into a ziplock and fill it with water, > then leave that in the 'frige for a couple of days. > > Shitake IMHO REALLY compliments the taste of steaks! > > Take they rehydrated mushrooms, remove the stem and discard. The stem is > WAY too tough to be of any use. Slice the caps about 1/4" thick then > sautee in butter and olive oil along with the onions. > > Top the steak with that........ > > I know what you mean about low carbing. :-) > -- Dried shitake are indeed great, but they taste quite different from the fresh. -- Peter Aitken Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm |
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In article >,
Joseph Littleshoes > wrote: > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote: > > > In article .com>, > > wrote: > > > > > None Given wrote: > > > > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message > > > > ... > > > > > Rib eye... ;-d > > > > > > > > > > Half raw in the middle, well seared on the outside. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last night we had Rib eye steak that was so good DH claimed his > > tastebuds > > > > had an orgasm. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > > > > > > I think I will grill one up tonight. With mushrooms and onions > > sauteed > > > in butter on top and a side of Ceasar Salad with tons of garlic and > > > parmasan cheese. Man, I love the low-carb lifestyle. > > > > > > TC > > > > > > > Lordy. You just got me drooling. ;-d > > > > I've finally learned how to use dried Shitake mushrooms. > > They are only $6.00 per lb. at the asian market and the weight ratio > > of > > dry to fresh is 10 to 1 so it's equal to 10 lbs. of fresh shitake! > > Fresh > > ones run about $8.00 per lb. so the dried are FAR more affordable! > > > > > I have an old 1930 English language Chinese cook book by a woman named > Dolly Chow that goes on and on about the dried 'black mushrooms' to the > degree that i am thinking about trying to use some. They are sold very > inexpensively in 10 - 50 pound bags at a local "China town" as well as > in any smaller quantity one might want. I could not swear to it, but they may be shitakes. > > I like the idea of dried mushrooms but have never used them, im > wondering just how different the 'black' mushrooms are from ordinary > European - American mushrooms. The flavor is nowhere near the same. The common mushrooms you get at the supermarket are not the same species. There is a WORLD of flavor using different mushrooms! If you have an opportunity to get fresh oyster mushrooms, give those a shot some time. > > > > > > > I take the dried ones, toss them into a ziplock and fill it with > > water, > > then leave that in the 'frige for a couple of days. > > I have heard of an hour or so in hot water and then using the water as > well as the mushroom but i would be a bit nervous about leaving them for > 'a couple of days'. It's at 40 degrees. :-) Not a problem. At all. > > > > > > > Shitake IMHO REALLY compliments the taste of steaks! > > I like them sauted with other veggies, good in omelets, have not had > them specifically with steak but adore 'oyster' mushrooms with a pot > roast. > --- > JL Ah! I want to try growing some oyster mushrooms here at home as soon as I make some indoor space. It's too hot outside to try them there. -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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In article >,
Joseph Littleshoes > wrote: > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote: > > > I recently switched to Grapeseed oil tho' for frying steaks as I can > > get > > the oil hotter without smoking up the house. Olive oil tho' is what I > > use for nearly all other cooking. > > > > I only use grape seed oil for beef these days. IMO it adds a flavor to > the beef no other oil comes close to. Of course i do not care for olive > oil so i expect others may not be quite so enthusiastic about grape seed > oil as i am. > --- > JL I'm getting to be enthusiastic about it as I believe that beef should be cooked hot and fast! :-) It's nice to not have to air out the house when I'm done just to get a good steak the way I like it. I've also found an affordable source. -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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In article >,
"Peter Aitken" > wrote: > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message > ... > > In article .com>, > > wrote: > > > >> None Given wrote: > >> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message > >> > ... > >> > > Rib eye... ;-d > >> > > > >> > > Half raw in the middle, well seared on the outside. > >> > > >> > > >> > Last night we had Rib eye steak that was so good DH claimed his > >> > tastebuds > >> > had an orgasm. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes > >> > >> I think I will grill one up tonight. With mushrooms and onions sauteed > >> in butter on top and a side of Ceasar Salad with tons of garlic and > >> parmasan cheese. Man, I love the low-carb lifestyle. > >> > >> TC > >> > > > > Lordy. You just got me drooling. ;-d > > > > I've finally learned how to use dried Shitake mushrooms. > > They are only $6.00 per lb. at the asian market and the weight ratio of > > dry to fresh is 10 to 1 so it's equal to 10 lbs. of fresh shitake! Fresh > > ones run about $8.00 per lb. so the dried are FAR more affordable! > > > > I take the dried ones, toss them into a ziplock and fill it with water, > > then leave that in the 'frige for a couple of days. > > > > Shitake IMHO REALLY compliments the taste of steaks! > > > > Take they rehydrated mushrooms, remove the stem and discard. The stem is > > WAY too tough to be of any use. Slice the caps about 1/4" thick then > > sautee in butter and olive oil along with the onions. > > > > Top the steak with that........ > > > > I know what you mean about low carbing. :-) > > -- > > Dried shitake are indeed great, but they taste quite different from the > fresh. Oh I dunno, I've had the fresh. To me, the flavor is pretty much the same with a 2 day rehydration. It's the texture that suffers... I prefer the fresh, just cannot really afford them often. Another good application for dried shitake is to powder them and put them in a shaker, then use as a flavoring. It's _fabulous_ on poultry!!!!!! Powdered also makes a good low carb and flavorful soup thickener. -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:20:31 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote: >I could not swear to it, but they may be shitakes. I make some wonderfuly shaped shitcakes every morning. Jpg's available. I fail to see this (well, I understand completely in this bunch) level of popularity for a bodily excrement. TBR "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956) "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent, but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption." |
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wrote: > wrote: > > I will dumb it down for you then. > > > > People who don't eat meat will eventually become frail and sick, > > physically and mentally. If they eat grains, they will become frail and > > sick faster. > > > > People who eat/ate mostly meat and fats are/were inherently healthy. > > The Inuits and Eskimos were extremely healthy before their diets > > changed to include European foods like grains. > > > > Malnutrition (ie. veganism, vegetarianism) leads to ill health. Ill > > health leads to chronic illness and susceptibility to infectious > > agents. It could not be simpler than that. If you still don't get it, > > send me your address and I'll get my 10 year old to explain it to you > > in words you can understand. > > > > TC > > Whooa.... here TC goes again. When he begins to lose a debate, he > simply picks up and heads over to another discussion and spews the same > dribble. Not really. I can recognize when the other debater is attached to a concept to a point beyond reasonableness and will never be convinced otherwise. They live in denial. > > To bring the rest of you up to speed, I had informed TC that I know > many vegans and vegetarians (30 or so friends, acquantances, and family > members. Myself included) They range in age from 10 to 59, with a few > having practiced veganism for 20 - 30 years. These folks, compared to > other people I know, are far more fit, energetic and generally > healthier than any other demographic I've had experience with. Sure, right, uh huh, of course. Vegans are supermen and superwomen. They live forever and never have any health problems. Someone should have told Jim Fixx about that. > > According to TC, we should all be sickly, fuzzy-minded weaklings. Yep. > Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm in my mid-forties, have a > muscular build with a flat stomach, and never get colds. I have a ton > of energy and get compliments on my skin all the time. I've been > vegetarian for 20+ years. How are we to know this for a fact. You are obviously extremely biased. The above assertations are very dubious. > > So, TC, I ask you... our reality certainly seems to confilct with your > theories. Assuming you're not going to run off to another forum, you > should probably explain your sources, and your obvious bias against > vegas/vegetarins. Your biased version of what you want your reality to be conflicts with the reality. > > You are constantly turning your nose up at scientific studies for one > reason or another, but when a study happens to agree with your > preconceived notions, you latch onto it like it's the gospel. I can > assure you that life is much better when you have an open mind. There is no *valid* science that shows veganism to be anything other than a multiple-nutrient deficient diet. That is the simple truth. Unfortunately we are surrounded by marketer-scientists who have no qualms about fudging their numbers to support their pet money-making projects. Ornish immediately comes to mind. He stands to profit directly from his "science". It is laughable that you would accuse me of latching on to studies that happen to agree with my POV. Cherry picking science has been the very backbone and foundation of the vegan (read PETA) activists modus operandi. Jim Fixx thought he was the healthiest man in the world right up to the time he took his last breath. Amazing how wrong he was in contrast to how right he thought he was. TC |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:17:41 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
> wrote: >"zxcvbob" > wrote in message ... >> A.C. wrote: >>> notbob wrote: >>> >>> >>>>It's complete and utter nonsense propagated by organic/natural food >>>>zealots. US military forces survived just fine on "dead food" >>>>(C-rats) for months on end, busting their hump every day. The >>>>astronauts on the space station are living just fine on "dead food". >>>>Dead food, live food ...its all just more silliness from the lunatic >>>>fringe. >>> >>> >>> no doubt, i wonder how all of those american civil war soldiers survived >>> on hard >>> tack. oh wait, it must've been the live weevils in the hard tack that >>> kept them >>> alive... nevermind :-P >>> >>> >> >> >> There's more truth to that than you would like to know. Where do you >> think Vegans and other strict vegetarians get their vitamin B12? >> > >Vegetarians get it from eggs and dairy products. And what is a "strict" >vegetarian? You either do not eat animal flesh (including fish) at all, in >which case you are a vegetarian, or you do eat it, in which case you are >not. This is an issue that perplexes me too. I have a co-worker who has always pointedly stated that she's a vegetarian. Then she tells me that she sometimes eats fish. And organic chicken. WTF? If she'd said eggs/cheese/butter/milk, I wouldn't have batted an eyelash, just thought "right, vegetarian but not vegan." Ah well. Takes all kinds I guess. TammyM, persnickety old thing |
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TammyM wrote: > >Vegetarians get it from eggs and dairy products. And what is a "strict" > >vegetarian? You either do not eat animal flesh (including fish) at all, in > >which case you are a vegetarian, or you do eat it, in which case you are > >not. > > This is an issue that perplexes me too. I have a co-worker who has > always pointedly stated that she's a vegetarian. Then she tells me > that she sometimes eats fish. And organic chicken. WTF? If she'd > said eggs/cheese/butter/milk, I wouldn't have batted an eyelash, just > thought "right, vegetarian but not vegan." > > Ah well. Takes all kinds I guess. > > TammyM, persnickety old thing She's a vegetarian wannabe.  One of my biggest pet peeves.-L. |
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wrote: > wrote: > > > > > > Whooa.... here TC goes again. When he begins to lose a debate, he > > > simply picks up and heads over to another discussion and spews the same > > > dribble. > > > > Not really. I can recognize when the other debater is attached to a > > concept to a point beyond reasonableness and will never be convinced > > otherwise. They live in denial. > > > > You've yet to provide any reasonable explanation why myself (and > millions of other people) are living heathly lives as > vegans/vegetarians. You are the one in denial. > > > > > > Sure, right, uh huh, of course. Vegans are supermen and superwomen. > > They live forever and never have any health problems. > > > > You are the one who claims low-carbers are superhuman. You are also > the one who is chubby and takes antidepressants. (your posts in other > forums prove me right) Now you are resorting to unverified and false accusations as part of your defense of the indefensible. So much for your argument. I am 5'11' at 185 with a muscular build and I've not taken any anti-depressants in 7 years, since I changed to a low-carb woe, and I took them for about 4 months. Long enough to find out that anti-depressants do not work, they are expensive and the side effects are atrocious. And btw, I resolve my anxiety/dysthymia by eating low-carb and supplementing with a b vitamin complex which contains an appreciable amount of, guess what, B12. You might want to try that, yourself. Suffice it to say that I fully cured and resolved my anxiety/disthymia, which is one more cure to my credit than any MD can claim. > > > > > > Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm in my mid-forties, have a > > > muscular build with a flat stomach, and never get colds. I have a ton > > > of energy and get compliments on my skin all the time. I've been > > > vegetarian for 20+ years. > > > > How are we to know this for a fact. You are obviously extremely biased. > > The above assertations are very dubious. > > > > And you're not biased? I may have no proof that I 'personally' am > telling the truth. But you habitually avoid the fact that there are > millions of healthy vegans/vegetarians out there. Any vegans/vegetarians out there are is inferior health to any meat eater. > > > > > Your biased version of what you want your reality to be conflicts with > > the reality. > > > > You can't stand the fact that there are millions of vegetarians out > there who prove your theories wrong on a daily basis. Unless the "millions" are documented somewhere as actually being studied and confirmed to be in good health, you are just pulling this number out of your butt and it means nothing. > > > > > There is no *valid* science that shows veganism to be anything other > > than a multiple-nutrient deficient diet. That is the simple truth. > > Unfortunately we are surrounded by marketer-scientists who have no > > qualms about fudging their numbers to support their pet money-making > > projects. Ornish immediately comes to mind. He stands to profit > > directly from his "science". > > > > There's plenty of valid science out there. Are you stupid or just in > denial? What you say is merely your opinion... calling it "the simple > truth" does not make it so. I am living proof that your opinions are > "simple", and certainly not "truth" The "science" that is currently used to support a vegan diet is very dubious in many, many ways. Of course you think it is gold standard, I would expect that from you. You are no proof other than someone who will not let go of an argument you have lost before you started. Take a B12 and relax. You're not going to win the argument with anecdotes. > > > It is laughable that you would accuse me of latching on to studies that > > happen to agree with my POV. Cherry picking science has been the very > > backbone and foundation of the vegan (read PETA) activists modus > > operandi. > > > > Now you are venturing into crazy-old-man territory. I'm wrong because > PETA has some nuts in their midst?? Even though I am not part of that > organization, and in no way an animal rights sympathizer? Your ad > hominem arguments are hilarious, and very telling. > > > Jim Fixx thought he was the healthiest man in the world right up to the > > time he took his last breath. Amazing how wrong he was in contrast to > > how right he thought he was. > > > > TC > > Sorta like Dr. Fatkins, right? > > I've seen many of your posts here.... I've read enough about you to > know that I am currently living the life that you've been trying to > acheive through fad diets and biased science. That must drive you up > the wall. > > Cheers. Low-carb fad. That always cracks me up. I guess you've never heard what Hippocrates: Everything in excess is opposed to nature. Hippocrates If we could give every individual the right amount of nourishment and exercise, not too little and not too much, we would have found the safest way to health. Hippocrates Natural forces within us are the true healers of disease. Hippocrates TC |
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It's like talking to a wall....
TC: If you can't even agree with the fact that there are millions of vegetarians, then you are not only stubborn, but agonizingly stupid. There is no way to have a debate with someone who is incapable of learning. > Any vegans/vegetarians out there are is inferior health to any meat eater. Proof? Evidence? You're an idiot. What's hilarious is that you would rather make yourself look even more stupid than admit even the possibility of being wrong. > I am 5'11' at 185 with a muscular build... What a ****ing liar. You are not muscular. You are chubby with man-boobs. Just give me a reason to post your picture... let the world see who has been providing this "advice" all along. |
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OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
|| In article || >, || WillBrink > wrote: || ||| In article ||| .com>, ||| "JMW" > wrote: ||| |||| Donovan Rebbechi wrote: ||||| > wrote: |||||| OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote: ||||||| Arri London > wrote: ||||||| |||||||| Meat from a petri dish? |||||||| |||||||| http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html ||||||| ||||||| Sounds fascinating. :-) ||||||| "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a ||||||| son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |||||| |||||| Solyent Red? |||||| |||||| This is just another example of man's silly attempt at |||||| (poorly) re-inventing natures' wheel. |||||| |||||| Look, the good lord (or mother nature, or evolution, or |||||| fate, you pick your philosophy) placed us on this world |||||| of abundance so that we could partake in that very |||||| abundance and be healthy and hearty doing so. And ||||| ||||| Whether or not "fate" permits something to happen has ||||| nothing to do with morality or justice. Fate is not in any ||||| way directed by such notions. ||||| |||||| that, as far as the human species go, most definitely |||||| includes eating meat which involves raising or hunting, |||||| butchering and eating animals. We all need to simply |||||| accept that reality and deal with it. ||||| ||||| Those of us who walk on two legs are concerned not only ||||| with emulating what ||||| others are doing, but also with questions of morality and ||||| justice. |||| |||| Morality and justice are relative to circumstances. Always |||| have been; always will be. There are no absolutes. ||| ||| Burgers and beer is great, and that's an absolute! :-) ||| |||| || || || I thought Absolute was Vodka??????? No that's 'Absolut' :-) -- -- "When you're arguing with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing." -- Unknown |
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In article >,
"BJ in Texas" > wrote: > OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote: > || In article > || > >, > || WillBrink > wrote: > || > ||| In article > ||| .com>, > ||| "JMW" > wrote: > ||| > |||| Donovan Rebbechi wrote: > ||||| > wrote: > |||||| OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote: > ||||||| Arri London > wrote: > ||||||| > |||||||| Meat from a petri dish? > |||||||| > |||||||| > http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html > ||||||| > ||||||| Sounds fascinating. :-) > ||||||| "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a > ||||||| son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson > |||||| > |||||| Solyent Red? > |||||| > |||||| This is just another example of man's silly attempt at > |||||| (poorly) re-inventing natures' wheel. > |||||| > |||||| Look, the good lord (or mother nature, or evolution, or > |||||| fate, you pick your philosophy) placed us on this world > |||||| of abundance so that we could partake in that very > |||||| abundance and be healthy and hearty doing so. And > ||||| > ||||| Whether or not "fate" permits something to happen has > ||||| nothing to do with morality or justice. Fate is not in any > ||||| way directed by such notions. > ||||| > |||||| that, as far as the human species go, most definitely > |||||| includes eating meat which involves raising or hunting, > |||||| butchering and eating animals. We all need to simply > |||||| accept that reality and deal with it. > ||||| > ||||| Those of us who walk on two legs are concerned not only > ||||| with emulating what > ||||| others are doing, but also with questions of morality and > ||||| justice. > |||| > |||| Morality and justice are relative to circumstances. Always > |||| have been; always will be. There are no absolutes. > ||| > ||| Burgers and beer is great, and that's an absolute! :-) > ||| > |||| > || > || > || I thought Absolute was Vodka??????? > > No that's 'Absolut' :-) > Cheers! ;-D -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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In article >,
DZ > wrote: > Preacher > wrote: > > there are some absolutes - morality and justice are not purely > > relative. > > But we're very good at rationalizing. Gladiator fights are now > replaced by pro wrestling. You forgot football..... > Similarly, 22 century omelet preparation > would look like this - http://home.nc.rr.com/netsink/eggs4649.jpg High protein genetically altered tomatoes? ;-o -- Om. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson |
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wrote: > **** you. Post the picture, arsehole. > > TC The next time I see you blatantly lying, I will. It's quite obvious that you have no interest in mature dialogue. These forums are for people interested in learning and helping eachother. You show no such interest, and are very much the troll in these forums. You never talk with people... you talk AT people. If you continue to hijack discussions and argue for the sake of arguing, I'll inform the moderators. (though, I'm sure I won't be the first) JJ |
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wrote: > wrote: > > **** you. Post the picture, arsehole. > > > > TC > > The next time I see you blatantly lying, I will. > > It's quite obvious that you have no interest in mature dialogue. These > forums are for people interested in learning and helping eachother. > You show no such interest, and are very much the troll in these forums. > You never talk with people... you talk AT people. If you continue to > hijack discussions and argue for the sake of arguing, I'll inform the > moderators. (though, I'm sure I won't be the first) > > JJ You are heterosexual and intelligent. Is that a big enough lie for you? You would not dare post a picture and claim it is me. TC |
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Hmmm.... I'm not ***, but it's satisfying to know that, on top of
everything, you're a bigot, too. I'll let you off the hook, I'll only post this one: http://www.gimpcity.com/how/why-fat-guy.jpg |
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On 2005-08-18, > wrote:
> Not really. I can recognize when the other debater is attached to a > concept to a point beyond reasonableness and will never be convinced > otherwise. They live in denial. You mean like yourself and low carb diets ? > Sure, right, uh huh, of course. Vegans are supermen and superwomen. > They live forever and never have any health problems. That's a straw man. What the research about this topic says is that health conscious vegetarians have comparable mortality rates to health conscious omnivores. > Someone should have told Jim Fixx about that. Someone should have told Jim Fixx that his arteries were blocked. He had a family history of heart trouble, and no symptoms, so his condition was undiagnosed. His fathers life was 10 years shorter (age 42) I didn't even know Jim Fixx was vegetarian, I've seen the same bogus argument trotted out when some idiot is trying to argue that running is dangerous. >> Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm in my mid-forties, have a >> muscular build with a flat stomach, and never get colds. I have a ton >> of energy and get compliments on my skin all the time. I've been >> vegetarian for 20+ years. > > How are we to know this for a fact. You are obviously extremely biased. > The above assertations are very dubious. Bwahahahaha ... now you're just being silly. Anyway, I'm also pretty fit. You can verify my PRs: 4:48 mile, 17:25 5k, 1:19 half-marathon, 2:58 marathon. Here's a picture of me running a mile: http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elfl.../armory_04.jpg >> You are constantly turning your nose up at scientific studies for one >> reason or another, but when a study happens to agree with your >> preconceived notions, you latch onto it like it's the gospel. I can >> assure you that life is much better when you have an open mind. > > There is no *valid* science that shows veganism to be anything other > than a multiple-nutrient deficient diet. That is the simple truth. Nonsense. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2005 Apr;14(4):963-8 Lifestyle determinants and mortality in German vegetarians and health-conscious persons: results of a 21-year follow-up. Chang-Claude J, Hermann S, Eilber U, Steindorf K. sight into the relative effects of a vegetarian diet and lifestyle factors on mortality. METHODS: A cohort study of vegetarians and health-conscious persons in Germany was followed-up prospectively for 21 years, including 1,225 vegetarians and 679 health-conscious nonvegetarians RESULTS: Standardized mortality ratios for all-cause mortality was significantly below 100: 59 [95% confidence interval (95% CI), 54-64], predominantly due to a deficit of deaths from circulatory diseases. Within the cohort, vegetarian compared with nonvegetarian diet had no effect on overall mortality ...... CONCLUSIONS: Both vegetarians and nonvegetarian health-conscious persons in this study have reduced mortality compared with the general population. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):526S-532S. Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans? Singh PN, Sabate J, Fraser GE. CONCLUSION: Current prospective cohort data from adults in North America and Europe raise the possibility that a lifestyle pattern that includes a very low meat intake is associated with greater longevity. Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):533S-538S. Mortality in British vegetarians: review and preliminary results from EPIC-Oxford. Key TJ, Appleby PN, Davey GK, Allen NE, Spencer EA, Travis RC. CONCLUSIONS: .... Within the studies, mortality for major causes of death was not significantly different between vegetarians and nonvegetarians, but the nonsignificant reduction in mortality from ischemic heart disease among vegetarians was compatible with the significant reduction previously reported in a pooled analysis of mortality in Western vegetarians. > Unfortunately we are surrounded by marketer-scientists who have no > qualms about fudging their numbers to support their pet money-making > projects. Ornish immediately comes to mind. He stands to profit > directly from his "science". No. You're the one who's out of the mainstream. Ornish has nothing to do with this. Mainstream science says that vegetarian diets are just fine. > Jim Fixx thought he was the healthiest man in the world If you were to study more than one data point, as the studies I cited do, you would reach a different conclusion. Cheers, -- Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ |
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On 2005-08-18, > wrote:
> I am 5'11' at 185 with a muscular build and I've not taken any > anti-depressants in 7 years, since I changed to a low-carb woe, and I Sounds very dubious to me, as you're very biased (-; Fatass. > Any vegans/vegetarians out there are is inferior health to any meat > eater. You're delusional. Maybe you need to get on some meds again. >> You can't stand the fact that there are millions of vegetarians out >> there who prove your theories wrong on a daily basis. > > Unless the "millions" are documented somewhere as actually being > studied and confirmed to be in good health, you are just pulling this > number out of your butt and it means nothing. [yawn] look at the abstracts I posted > The "science" that is currently used to support a vegan diet is very > dubious in many, many ways. How so ? What is wrong with the methods used in those publications I posted ? The articles were accepted by peer-reviewed journals. Perhaps you know something the reviewers don't ? Or perhaps you're just making it up. > You are no proof other than someone who will not let go of an argument > you have lost before you started. Take a B12 and relax. You're not > going to win the argument with anecdotes. Hey, you were the one who posted the BS about Jim Fixx, whereas I posted mortality studies. So who's winning ? (-; Cheers, -- Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ |
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"jmcquown" > wrote in message .. . > Dog3 wrote: >> Arri London > wrote in >> : >> >>> Meat from a petri dish? >>> >>> >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/arti...548451,00.html >> >> Hmmmm... I can see substituting it for hospital meat, school >> cafeteria >> meat, fast food meat etc. I doubt the taste would be much different >> than it already is. >> >> Fast Forward to the year 2020 ----->>>>> >> >> News Headline From the Dead Meat Press: >> >> The entire group of RFCers was taken into custody Saturday evening at >> the notorious ring leader's residence. Ring Leader, Barb Schaller, >> allegedly threw what is known as a cook-in using contraband meat. >> The group allegedly grilled 'murdered' pork chops and chicken >> breasts. Served along with the grilled 'murdered' meat were sides of >> corn on the cob, grilled vegetables and a fabulous wild rice mix. >> Dessert was 'murdered' fruit topped with imitation whipping cream. >> >> Michael > > You forgot her murdering many types of fruit in order to make jams and > jellys, and she killed several cucumbers to make pickles. She even > had the > audacity to have "pickle hats", as if to poke fun at the murdered > cukes! > For shame! That Barb even made me wear one once.. and she even had a photo of me in it!!!!!!!!!! |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:14:31 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> wrote: >Here's a picture of me running a mile: > >http://www.pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elfl.../armory_04.jpg HEY! That's me, you picture thief. TBR "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956) "Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent, but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption." |
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