For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<snip>
> I wouldn't recommend any of those... those Wolf and Viking units are
> commercial STYLE, which means they only LOOK like a commercial range
> but perform more like a LOW-END residential unit. Garland is a true
> commercial product but why does anyone need to rehab their kitchen to
> accomodate infernal temps when they essentially do only family coozine,
> probably only occasionally, when they ain't doing take-out. Some
> people... such egotistical self-absorbed phonys, makes ya wanna puke.
>

Try not to hold back your true feelings. Go ahead and tell us how you really
feel.

"Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
> Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
> two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...
>

I wouldn't purchase either. I would recommend Garland. Much better repair
record and a better machine.

Charlie

Charles Gifford wrote:
> "Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you
recomend
> > Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option
with
> > two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...
> >
>
> I wouldn't purchase either. I would recommend Garland. Much better
repair
> record and a better machine.
>
> Charlie

I wouldn't recommend any of those... those Wolf and Viking units are
commercial STYLE, which means they only LOOK like a commercial range
but perform more like a LOW-END residential unit. Garland is a true
commercial product but why does anyone need to rehab their kitchen to
accomodate infernal temps when they essentially do only family coozine,
probably only occasionally, when they ain't doing take-out. Some
people... such egotistical self-absorbed phonys, makes ya wanna puke.

Sheldon wrote:
> Charles Gifford wrote:
>
>>"Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>>>For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you
>
> recomend
>
>>>Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option
>
> with
>
>>>two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...
>>>
>>
>>I wouldn't purchase either. I would recommend Garland. Much better
>
> repair
>
>>record and a better machine.
>>
>>Charlie
>
>
> I wouldn't recommend any of those... those Wolf and Viking units are
> commercial STYLE, which means they only LOOK like a commercial range
> but perform more like a LOW-END residential unit. Garland is a true
> commercial product but why does anyone need to rehab their kitchen to
> accomodate infernal temps when they essentially do only family coozine,
> probably only occasionally, when they ain't doing take-out. Some
> people... such egotistical self-absorbed phonys, makes ya wanna puke.
>

Bragging rights and the "oooooh" factor.


jim

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> > "Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > > For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you
> recomend
> > > Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option
> with
> > > two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...
> > >
> >
> > I wouldn't purchase either. I would recommend Garland. Much better
> repair
> > record and a better machine.
> >
> > Charlie
>
> I wouldn't recommend any of those... those Wolf and Viking units are
> commercial STYLE, which means they only LOOK like a commercial range
> but perform more like a LOW-END residential unit. Garland is a true
> commercial product but why does anyone need to rehab their kitchen to
> accomodate infernal temps when they essentially do only family coozine,
> probably only occasionally, when they ain't doing take-out. Some
> people... such egotistical self-absorbed phonys, makes ya wanna puke.
>
Don't go giving good puke a bad name.
For the money you'll spend on any of those you could
probably eat out for the rest of your life.

"Sheldon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I wouldn't recommend any of those... those Wolf and Viking units are
> commercial STYLE, which means they only LOOK like a commercial range
> but perform more like a LOW-END residential unit. Garland is a true
> commercial product but why does anyone need to rehab their kitchen to
> accomodate infernal temps when they essentially do only family coozine,
> probably only occasionally, when they ain't doing take-out. Some
> people... such egotistical self-absorbed phonys, makes ya wanna puke.

You are in the right of it, of course. But surely it is a matter of
individual choce and financial ability. As in the matter of cookware, if a
person can afford the expensive suff why not enjoy it. Sure, Farberware
Classic is the best cookware available in the low to low-upper price
cookware. Still, I enjoy the few pieces of All-Clad stainless steel cookware
that I have and think it very much superior to any other cookware I have
used (leaving enameled iron out of the equasion). The same thing with
cookers. If I could afford a Garland I would be thrilled to have it. Not
only because it is the best cooker available, but because of the pleasure it
would bring to me to have something that works so well. This does not
include Wolf and Viking which ARE as you describe. There are many ways to
waste money. Many of them are much more reprehensible than spending funds on
the finest cooking equipment available. Of course, I am a foodie a decent
cook, so I am not necessarily one of the people you are talking about. I
agree with you that people who outfit a kitchen with the most expensive
appliances yet who have no idea of how to make use of it, are "egotistical
self-absorbed phoneys".

In conclusion, I agree with your post my friend. I do see some shades of
gray in there though. Nonetheless, Viking and Wolf are a waste of money in
the same manner that spending funds on Calphalon or even Revere Ware Copper
Bottom cookware is.

Charlie

Charles Gifford wrote:
> You are in the right of it, of course. But surely it is a matter of
> individual choce and financial ability. As in the matter of cookware, if a
> person can afford the expensive suff why not enjoy it.

Why not enjoy it, indeed! The problem is that many of the folks buying these
high-end models don't enjoy them. Some will cook on them but rarely/never
use the bells and whistles they paid so much for, while others never touch
their coveted acquisition.

The point is that the OP was focusing on heavily advertised high-end names.
To you, it implied that he was ignoring or had no awareness of other
preferred manufacturers. To Sheldon, it seemed to mean that the OP was a
dildo head with no real knowledge of the necessities of the home cook and
only after a status symbol.

My opinion is that the OP just one more member of the population that
suffers from More Money Than Brains. This population has the money to spend
on whatever it wants regardless of need and/or ability, unaware the effect
it may have on others (indeed, to a point unaware of the existence of
others). However, there is another, similar malady to MMTB called More Money
Than Brainsian Syndrome. Unlike MMTB victims, Syndrome sufferers don't
really have the money at all but show most of the other characteristics of
true MMTB victims. Syndrome sufferers differ further in that they are
acutely aware of the impact their actions have on others and may target
acquaintances and family members on whom to inflict the results of their
behavior.

It can be difficult to distinguish between the two illnesses. Statistical
tracking of either group is almost always skewed because except for the
primary differences noted above, the two groups are identical in every way.
Time is the researcher's best tool for accurate observation and separation
of true MMTB and Syndrome victims, as the differences between the illnesses
appear after a period of evolution. Over time, MMTB victims continue to show
little or no concern about where the funds for acquisition come from, while
Syndrome sufferers obsess about "things" increasingly, demonstrate the need
to wheel and deal with escalating desperation, will make purchases wantonly
while saying something like "I've always wanted to learn how to use one of
these," are well-versed in home loans, equity loans, reverse mortgages,
multiple mortgages and other means of access to "disposable income," and so
on.

In terms of the effect of their behavior on others, again it is time that
best reveals who belongs to what group. After a long observation period,
researchers see that true MMTB victims care very little about how their
purchases influence the people around them but if pressed for an opinion
will admit that it's nobody elses business what they as a group do. Syndrome
sufferers, on the other hand, are tremendously concerned about this effect
and, as mentioned previously, may be found targeting particular members of
their circles to receive the full impact. What other people think of them is
paramount to Syndrome sufferers, and most of the labors of Syndrome
sufferers is dedicated to shaping the perceptions and attitudes of their
targets.

Both groups do share a "let them eat cake" attitude toward others who may
indicate desire for things held by group members. In the case of true MMTB,
it is a genuinely thoughtless point of view tossed about in true Marie
Antoinette fashion whereas for Syndrome sufferers it is acknowlegement of a
mission accomplished.

<It would be interesting to survey the people who buy the very latest and
most expensive of appliances and see how many use their prizes or have read
the manuals. Would the results be commensurate with, say, the numbers of
people who bought the very very very finest (expensive) stainless steel
cookware and gripe bitterly that it burns/it gets dirty/it discolors/it's
heavy/the handles get hot/food sticks to it? >

pennyaline wrote:
>[snip]
> The point is that the OP was focusing on heavily advertised high-end
> names. To you, it implied that he was ignoring or had no awareness
> of other preferred manufacturers. To Sheldon, it seemed to mean that
> the OP was a dildo head with no real knowledge of the necessities of
> the home cook and only after a status symbol.
>
> My opinion is that the OP just one more member of the population that
> suffers from More Money Than Brains.

Surely this is too harsh. Here's a person who wants, for reasons not
stated, to upgrade his cooking machinery. He quickly discovers which
are the "heavily advertised high-end names." Perfectly normal, since
that's the purpose of heavy advertising. Does he run out and buy them?
No, he finds a newsgroup devoted to cooking -- not to high-end
consumerism -- and asks questions, trying to gather information from
people who might have experience or knowledge.

What do you give him? Gratuitous insults and self-promoting
pseudosociology. Unfortunately, I myself don't have any experience or
knowledge about any of these units, but I hope somebody posts something
more helpful.

-aem

"Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
> Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
> two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...
>

Try asking your question here
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/

you can search the appliance forum for Viking and Wolf also

pennyaline wrote:
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> > You are in the right of it, of course. But surely it is a matter of
> > individual choce and financial ability. As in the matter of
cookware, if a
> > person can afford the expensive suff why not enjoy it.
>
> The point is that the OP was focusing on heavily advertised high-end
names.
> To you, it implied that he was ignoring or had no awareness of other
> preferred manufacturers. To Sheldon, it seemed to mean that the OP
was a
> dildo head with no real knowledge of the necessities of the home cook
and
> only after a status symbol.

Actually what I said is that folks don't realize how those units are
commercial-STYLE stoves, NOT commercial stoves... and in fact perform
no better than bottom to middle of the line residential stoves. Except
for slightly higher BTU output no commercial-style stove performs
better and has more features (bells and whistles) than any of the big
name brand top of the line residential stoves. With Commercial-Style
you pay tripple the price of a top of the line residential unit, with
better than 2/3 of your money going strictly towards it's retro
appearance and beefier chassis, with little to nothing related to
modern technology. Choosing commercial STYLE has not a whit to do with
culinary knowledge (obviously those have none), has to do with being a
"dildo-head" only.

> My opinion is that the OP just one more member of the population that
> suffers from More Money Than Brains.

The correct phrase is "More dollars than brain cells."

<tons of inane psycho babble snipped>

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote:
> > My opinion is that the OP just one more member of the population that
> > suffers from More Money Than Brains.
>
> The correct phrase is "More dollars than brain cells."
>
> <tons of inane psycho babble snipped>

If my sense of humor offends thee, block my posts.

<unless they quote you, of course>

"aem" wrote:
> pennyaline wrote:
> [snip]
> >> The point is that the OP was focusing on heavily advertised high-end
> >> names. To you, it implied that he was ignoring or had no awareness
> >> of other preferred manufacturers. To Sheldon, it seemed to mean that
> >> the OP was a dildo head with no real knowledge of the necessities of
> >> the home cook and only after a status symbol.

> > My opinion is that the OP just one more member of the population that
> > suffers from More Money Than Brains.

> Surely this is too harsh. Here's a person who wants, for reasons not
> stated, to upgrade his cooking machinery. He quickly discovers which
> are the "heavily advertised high-end names." Perfectly normal, since
> that's the purpose of heavy advertising. Does he run out and buy them?
> No, he finds a newsgroup devoted to cooking -- not to high-end
> consumerism -- and asks questions, trying to gather information from
> people who might have experience or knowledge.

> What do you give him? Gratuitous insults and self-promoting
> pseudosociology. Unfortunately, I myself don't have any experience or
> knowledge about any of these units, but I hope somebody posts something
> more helpful.

You guys sure are grim this fine Sunday. Get over it, okay? Lighten up.

pennyaline wrote:
[snip preceding
>
> You guys sure are grim this fine Sunday. Get over it, okay? Lighten
up.

You post seven paragraphs of negative blather with nary of word of help
for the OP, and then say *we* are grim?

-aem

My! My! All these negative posts! Is this jealousy? Viking and Wolf
can't be any good cuz they can't afford them themselves?

But these folks do have a points or two. Neither Viking or Wolf really are
commercial units, nor would you want a real commercial unit in your house
anyway, unless you do one hell of allot of entertaining or really big
crouds. Commercial units are not "better" units. They're different.
Thy're meant for continuous use, not starting and stopping like home units,
and they usually have higher BTU burners to handle the bigger pots and pans
restaurants use. But this also means their low heat settings are often too
high for every day home use.

Which brings up another point. Real commercial units and for that matter
the pseudo-commercial units like Viking / Wolf are required by building
codes to have different venting than home units and you could be getting
into serious costs on that front.

I entertain allot and have two kitchens. I use a Jenn Air and a long out of
production cast iron burner style Kitchen Aid. But both are plain old
residential units. And they both do anything I ask them to. I see no
reason for bigger units in a home, even one that does lots of entertaining.

In my opinion, the only real justification for Wolf / Viking is the
"eyewash" .. they LOOK important. And take a hint from the kind of reaction
you see in other posts. You're throwing your money in other people's face.
If that appeals to you, and I can kind of understand the appeal, then pick
the one that looks best to you. Then hang on to your wallet for the
commercial vent system you're going to need.

Rod


"Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
> Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
> two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...
>

"aem" > wrote in message
oups.com...
<SNIP>
> Unfortunately, I myself don't have any experience or
> knowledge about any of these units, but I hope somebody posts something
> more helpful.
>
> -aem

Hey! I tried to be helpful! <grin>

Charlie

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> Hey! I tried to be helpful! <grin>

You're always helpful and relevant even after you're well into the
Guinness. I was (probably over-)reacting to the others....

-aem

"Rod Keys" > wrote in message
...
> My! My! All these negative posts! Is this jealousy? Viking and Wolf
> can't be any good cuz they can't afford them themselves?
>
> But these folks do have a points or two. Neither Viking or Wolf really
> are commercial units, nor would you want a real commercial unit in your
> house anyway, unless you do one hell of allot of entertaining or really
> big crouds. Commercial units are not "better" units. They're different.
> Thy're meant for continuous use, not starting and stopping like home
> units, and they usually have higher BTU burners to handle the bigger pots
> and pans restaurants use. But this also means their low heat settings are
> often too high for every day home use.
>
> Which brings up another point. Real commercial units and for that matter
> the pseudo-commercial units like Viking / Wolf are required by building
> codes to have different venting than home units and you could be getting
> into serious costs on that front.
>
> I entertain allot and have two kitchens. I use a Jenn Air and a long out
> of production cast iron burner style Kitchen Aid. But both are plain old
> residential units. And they both do anything I ask them to. I see no
> reason for bigger units in a home, even one that does lots of
> entertaining.
>
> In my opinion, the only real justification for Wolf / Viking is the
> "eyewash" .. they LOOK important. And take a hint from the kind of
> reaction you see in other posts. You're throwing your money in other
> people's face. If that appeals to you, and I can kind of understand the
> appeal, then pick the one that looks best to you. Then hang on to your
> wallet for the commercial vent system you're going to need.
>
> Rod
>
>
> "Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
>> Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
>> two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...

LOL. I totally agree with you. When it comes to appliances, I buy what
fulfills my needs. I put quality over brand. Now sometimes quality, or
lack thereof, tends to wash out a particular brand.

Due to the circumstances at the time when I moved to Nebraska, I was forced
to buy a free standing oven/range in a hurry. Well, 3 weeks was about how
long it took. LOL, during those 3 weeks, we practiced camp cooking! AFAIK,
I'm the only person that can claim to have made spaghetti and tacos (not at
the same time) using his bbq grill and coleman 3-burner propane stove in his
garage! Top that!

Anyways, we purchased a regular 4-burner range with non-self cleaning oven.
Without running upstairs, I couldn't save my life by telling you the brand
of it. The BTU output sucks for using a wok. Apparently, the low-BTU
special simmer burner is pretty good though since anytime someone opens a
door to the outside, the damn flame goes out. Also, the controls for the
time and oven are on the riser in back. For me that's not a problem but the
wife is 4'11" with hair almost to her waist. I don't know how many times
she's managed to singe her hair turning the timer off!

Now that I have no pressing need, I've been reading the threads here and in
RFE and have found that I want a free standing unit that meets the following
criteria:

1. 30" width.
2. Ideally 6 burners but not likely due to #1
3. A decent simmer burner on the back left side of the unit.
4. At -least- one 15k BTU burner for wokking.
5. A selectable convection option in the oven.
6. A broiler.
7. All controls on the front; not on the riser in the back. In fact, I
don't care if the unit even has a timer or clock.

Here's the fun part. I don't care about brand name. I -do- care about
price though. So if I can find something that will meet my needs and spare
my bank account, I could give a hoot about brand.

Any idea's?

TIA,
Bret

(If anyone is interested in my garage-cooking stories just shout and I'll
start a thread!) <BEG>



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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Rod Keys" > wrote in message
...
> My! My! All these negative posts! Is this jealousy? Viking and Wolf
> can't be any good cuz they can't afford them themselves?
>
> But these folks do have a points or two. Neither Viking or Wolf really
> are commercial units, nor would you want a real commercial unit in your
> house anyway, unless you do one hell of allot of entertaining or really
> big crowds. Commercial units are not "better" units. They're different.
> They're meant for continuous use, not starting and stopping like home
> units, and they usually have higher BTU burners to handle the bigger pots
> and pans restaurants use. But this also means their low heat settings are
> often too high for every day home use.
>
> Which brings up another point. Real commercial units and for that matter
> the pseudo-commercial units like Viking / Wolf are required by building
> codes to have different venting than home units and you could be getting
> into serious costs on that front.
>
> I entertain allot and have two kitchens. I use a Jenn Air and a long out
> of production cast iron burner style Kitchen Aid. But both are plain old
> residential units. And they both do anything I ask them to. I see no
> reason for bigger units in a home, even one that does lots of
> entertaining.
>
> In my opinion, the only real justification for Wolf / Viking is the
> "eyewash" .. they LOOK important. And take a hint from the kind of
> reaction you see in other posts. You're throwing your money in other
> people's face. If that appeals to you, and I can kind of understand the
> appeal, then pick the one that looks best to you. Then hang on to your
> wallet for the commercial vent system you're going to need.
>
> Rod
>
>
> "Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
>> Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
>> two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...

LOL. I totally agree with you. When it comes to appliances, I buy what
fulfills my needs. I put quality over brand. Now sometimes quality, or
lack thereof, tends to wash out a particular brand.

Due to the circumstances at the time when I moved to Nebraska, I was forced
to buy a free standing oven/range in a hurry. Well, 3 weeks was about how
long it took. LOL, during those 3 weeks, we practiced camp cooking! AFAIK,
I'm the only person that can claim to have made spaghetti and tacos (not at
the same time) using his bbq grill and coleman 3-burner propane stove in his
garage! Top that!

Anyways, we purchased a regular 4-burner range with non-self cleaning oven.
Without running upstairs, I couldn't save my life by telling you the brand
of it. The BTU output sucks for using a wok. Apparently, the low-BTU
special simmer burner is pretty good though since anytime someone opens a
door to the outside, the damn flame goes out. Also, the controls for the
time and oven are on the riser in back. For me that's not a problem but the
wife is 4'11" with hair almost to her waist. I don't know how many times
she's managed to singe her hair turning the timer off!

Now that I have no pressing need, I've been reading the threads here and in
RFE and have found that I want a free standing unit that meets the following
criteria:

1. 30" width.
2. Ideally 6 burners but not likely due to #1
3. A decent simmer burner on the back left side of the unit.
4. At -least- one 15k BTU burner for wokking.
5. A selectable convection option in the oven.
6. A broiler.
7. All controls on the front; not on the riser in the back. In fact, I
don't care if the unit even has a timer or clock.

Here's the fun part. I don't care about brand name. I -do- care about
price though. So if I can find something that will meet my needs and spare
my bank account, I could give a hoot about brand.

Any idea's?

TIA,
Bret

(If anyone is interested in my garage-cooking stories just shout and I'll
start a thread!) <BEG>




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"aem" wrote:
> pennyaline wrote:

> > [snip preceding

> > You guys sure are grim this fine Sunday. Get over it, okay? Lighten
> > up
>
>
> You post seven paragraphs of negative blather with nary of word of help
> for the OP, and then say *we* are grim?

You betcha, and in your case utterly humorless.

<and perhaps without insight besides>

Thanks for all the feedback/criticism. First of all, I'm not rich or
anything, this question is just for personal interest. My family did
restore the kitchen lately and did get the aforementioned range in the
OP. However, I am not the "Head of Household" and I certainly don't
make key spending decisions. I like it a lot but I was just wondering
if the Viking competition is any different. I have to agree with Rod
about ventilation. With the IR grill on and 6 burgers, there is way
more smoke then the massive hood can pull away. I have a feeling that
this could be solved with real commercial style venting. Currently the
fans vent into 12" ducting and come out a slotted vent where the hole
is roughly 12" by 3". If we had one of those mushroom style vents it
would probably be better but not very good looking.

I also enjoy cooking and am considering culinary arts school. I don't
know much about the technicals though, which is why I turned to good
old newsgroups.

Thanks again.

Michael wrote:
> "Sheldon" > wrote:
> > I wouldn't recommend any of those... those Wolf and Viking units
are
> > commercial STYLE, which means they only LOOK like a commercial
range
> > but perform more like a LOW-END residential unit. Garland is a
true
> > commercial product but why does anyone need to rehab their kitchen
to
> > accomodate infernal temps when they essentially do only family
coozine,
> > probably only occasionally, when they ain't doing take-out. Some
> > people... such egotistical self-absorbed phonys, makes ya wanna
puke.
> >
>
> Try not to hold back your true feelings.

I never do.

> Go ahead and tell us how you really feel.

I always do.

And you... perhaps you should give up your smarmy ways... try honesty.

Merriam Webster

hon=B7es=B7ty
noun

a : fairness and straightforwardness of conduct b : adherence to the
facts : SINCERITY

synonyms HONESTY, HONOR, INTEGRITY, PROBITY mean uprightness of
character or action. HONESTY implies a refusal to lie, steal, or
deceive in any way. HONOR suggests an active or anxious regard for the
standards of one's profession, calling, or position. INTEGRITY implies
trustworthiness and incorruptibility to a degree that one is incapable
of being false to a trust, responsibility, or pledge. PROBITY implies
tried and proven honesty or integrity.


Sheldon

"I also enjoy cooking and am considering culinary arts school."

That is an entirely different discussion that has been here before.
Seek out
and read some of the tell-all books by people who've been there.
Anthony Bordain, for example
(but be ready for some anti-hero posing - don't take him at his word.)
Also, talk to
some local food service folk. From what I understand, as long as you
don't mind going years without a weekend or holiday off, and you like
getting up very early or going to bed very late or both, and don't mind
the occasional burn, it's a great vocation.

There's a guy in Ann Arbor, Michigan, who had all the cuisine chops.
He opened a hot dog stand. Better hours, just as much profit, and he
still got to make lobster bisque when he was so inclined.

Greg Zywicki

"aem" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> >
> > Hey! I tried to be helpful! <grin>
>
> You're always helpful and relevant even after you're well into the
> Guinness. I was (probably over-)reacting to the others....
>
> -aem

You are too kind! I'm into the Boddingtons today. I've broken into the 2nd
4-pack. Excuse: I am getting ready to visit my tax advisor and can't find
some of the necessary papers. I probably filed them under some heading that
seemed appropriate at the time. I very much doubt that youse were
(over)reacting and, certainly a reaction was useful in drawing the thread
back to the beginning point!

Charlie, re-using the Imperial pint glasses rather than wash 'em.

"Rod Keys" > wrote in message
...
> My! My! All these negative posts! Is this jealousy? Viking and Wolf
> can't be any good cuz they can't afford them themselves?
>
> But these folks do have a points or two.

Please define "these folks". I hate being lumped in with the Hoi Polloi. ;-)

Charlie

Elliott Plack, USAR wrote:
> Thanks for all the feedback/criticism. First of all, I'm not rich or
> anything, this question is just for personal interest. My family did
> restore the kitchen lately and did get the aforementioned range in the
> OP. However, I am not the "Head of Household" and I certainly don't
> make key spending decisions. I like it a lot but I was just wondering
> if the Viking competition is any different. I have to agree with Rod
> about ventilation...

<snip>

I remember watching This Old House back in the 80s and early 90s when
starry-eyed home owners tried to install real commercial ranges in their
erstwhile ramshackle houses. They routinely blew their budgets and utterly
ignored the advice of contractors, registering only the oomph factor that
these appliances could generate. It wasn't long before house fires
attributable to these ranges were breaking out left, right and center.
Oopsey daisy then, I guess. Shoulda listened when they had the chance, huh?.
Oh well. I'm sure they learned nothing from the experience. Manufacturers
learned a passle, though!

FWIW, it was about this era of This Old House that featured the homeowner
who wanted a butler's pantry and was willing to move heaven and earth to get
it. He was warned away from it again and again on multiple grounds: it was
an unnecessary space to create (no butler, no household tasks existed to
which to devote a space of that nature... in short, no need for a space like
that) that would cut masses of square footage from his kitchen and living
areas, carpenters would have to replan rooms and rebuild walls and plumbing
to accomodate it, it would put him severely over budget... No matter. The
homeowner wanted a butler's pantry. He wanted one, damn it, and he laid it
on the line with the production company and the contractors: it was his
house, his money, and he was going to have what he wanted. When it was
finished, he complained about the cost. He also complained about the useless
pantry making the kitchen too small. Go figure.


> I also enjoy cooking and am considering culinary arts school. I don't
> know much about the technicals though, which is why I turned to good
> old newsgroups.

I'm told that cooking and culinary arts are disparate things. If you enjoy
cooking, just cook for the hell of it on whatever you've got.

<unless it's electric, of course. I mean..., come on, eh? Don't get me
started! >

"pennyaline" <nsmitchell@spamspamspamspamspamspamspameggandspam .com>
wrote:

>Elliott Plack, USAR wrote:
>> Thanks for all the feedback/criticism. First of all, I'm not rich or
>> anything, this question is just for personal interest. My family did
>> restore the kitchen lately and did get the aforementioned range in the
>> OP. However, I am not the "Head of Household" and I certainly don't
>> make key spending decisions. I like it a lot but I was just wondering
>> if the Viking competition is any different. I have to agree with Rod
>> about ventilation...
>
><snip>
>
>I remember watching This Old House back in the 80s and early 90s when
>starry-eyed home owners tried to install real commercial ranges in their
>erstwhile ramshackle houses. They routinely blew their budgets and utterly
>ignored the advice of contractors, registering only the oomph factor that
>these appliances could generate. It wasn't long before house fires
>attributable to these ranges were breaking out left, right and center.
>Oopsey daisy then, I guess. Shoulda listened when they had the chance, huh?.
>Oh well. I'm sure they learned nothing from the experience. Manufacturers
>learned a passle, though!
>
>FWIW, it was about this era of This Old House that featured the homeowner
>who wanted a butler's pantry and was willing to move heaven and earth to get
>it. He was warned away from it again and again on multiple grounds: it was
>an unnecessary space to create (no butler, no household tasks existed to
>which to devote a space of that nature... in short, no need for a space like
>that) that would cut masses of square footage from his kitchen and living
>areas, carpenters would have to replan rooms and rebuild walls and plumbing
>to accomodate it, it would put him severely over budget... No matter. The
>homeowner wanted a butler's pantry. He wanted one, damn it, and he laid it
>on the line with the production company and the contractors: it was his
>house, his money, and he was going to have what he wanted. When it was
>finished, he complained about the cost. He also complained about the useless
>pantry making the kitchen too small. Go figure.
>
>
Is this the same one who insisted on having a skylight put in which
did not make a dramatic improvement in the light in the stairwell, but
added much to the cost of the house?


--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

"Zywicki" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> "I also enjoy cooking and am considering culinary arts school."
>
> That is an entirely different discussion that has been here before.
> Seek out
> and read some of the tell-all books by people who've been there.
> Anthony Bordain, for example
> (but be ready for some anti-hero posing - don't take him at his word.)
> Also, talk to
> some local food service folk. From what I understand, as long as you
> don't mind going years without a weekend or holiday off, and you like
> getting up very early or going to bed very late or both, and don't mind
> the occasional burn, it's a great vocation.
>
> There's a guy in Ann Arbor, Michigan, who had all the cuisine chops.
> He opened a hot dog stand. Better hours, just as much profit, and he
> still got to make lobster bisque when he was so inclined.
>
> Greg Zywicki


Greg, I'd love to go to culinary arts school. Not to become professional
chef, but to get a better understanding on what the hell I'm doing in the
kitchen.

There's a lot of info to be gained from it but as my SIL points out all the
time, you have the knowledge now use it. She's been there, done that. She
wants to be a nutritionist so had to take all the classes.

Bret



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In article . com>,
"Elliott Plack, USAR" > wrote:

> For residential useage in the dual oven catagory, would you recomend
> Wolf or Viking? I like the Wolf 6 burner + griddle + grill option with
> two broiler equipted ovens. Wolf also has 4 temperature settings...


Consumer reports did a test on home stoves some time back. They rated the
high end stoves *lower* than cheaper ones. They commented that the main
difference was that high end stoves were sturdier than others. If you
want more than four burners and two ovens, it's much cheaper to buy two
stoves.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS