On 3/14/2021 8:59 PM, wrote:
> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 7:00:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure some of you have tile walls in your kitchen. What would
>> motivate a person to paint over ceramic tile? In my son's new house,
>> he was originally intending to totally redo the kitchen, but he's
>> since reconsidered, and instead is opting to restore it to original,
>> except for the window. Instead of replacing the cabinets that have
>> layers of paint, I'm stripping them to bare wood, and repainting them
>> white. I'm also stripping the paint off of the original tile. That
>> blue is painted over a nice, deep burgundy tile.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>
> That's awful looking.
>>
>> Here's what's underneath. The tile at the rear is only half stripped.
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/361781...posted-public/
>>
> MUCH better. That will provide a nice accent color. But I wouldn't be so happy
> with the tile countertop. The grout lines with be a harbinger of bacteria.
>>
>> Of course, the vinyl asbestos floor tile has to go, but white ceramic
>> will maintain the old fashioned look. He even wants to replace the
>> modern induction range with the 1950s-'60s gas range we pulled out of
>> our rental property, which worked fine.
>>
> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?

The asbestos killer is long-term exposure. You won't get lung cancer
from a kitchen remodel. That being said, I'm not advocating pulling it
as a DIY project, but I surely have done it. My concern would be in
other household asbestos, mainly the white asbestos what's wrapped
around many furnace ducts, or at least the wrapped around the joints
where sheet metal from the ducts goes together. When the asbestos is
friable in these areas, and can be blown slowing into the home over a
course of decades; that's the real lung cancer hazard.

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 8:59:21 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>
> On 3/14/2021 8:59 PM, wrote:
> >
> > When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
> > Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
> >
> The asbestos killer is long-term exposure. You won't get lung cancer
> from a kitchen remodel. That being said, I'm not advocating pulling it
> as a DIY project, but I surely have done it.
>
Be my guest, I'd still not risk it. When I had new vinyl laid in my kitchen about
25 years ago I opted for 1/4 inch plywood laid over it for a super smooth surface
for the new vinyl.

On 2021-03-15 12:58 a.m., wrote:
> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 8:59:21 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>> On 3/14/2021 8:59 PM, wrote:
>>>
>>> When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
>>> Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
>>>
>> The asbestos killer is long-term exposure. You won't get lung cancer
>> from a kitchen remodel. That being said, I'm not advocating pulling it
>> as a DIY project, but I surely have done it.
>>
> Be my guest, I'd still not risk it. When I had new vinyl laid in my kitchen about
> 25 years ago I opted for 1/4 inch plywood laid over it for a super smooth surface
> for the new vinyl.
>

We had to cut the floor to access pipes when we redid out bathroom abut
30 years ago. We had the flooring installed and within weeks and even
though the floor had looked and felt smooth where we had cut, there was
an outline of it.

On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 12:58:05 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 8:59:21 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> >
> > On 3/14/2021 8:59 PM, wrote:
> > >
> > > When you say the vinyl asbestos floor tile will have to go, can you elaborate?
> > > Professionally removed so as to not stir up asbestos particles?
> > >
> > The asbestos killer is long-term exposure. You won't get lung cancer
> > from a kitchen remodel. That being said, I'm not advocating pulling it
> > as a DIY project, but I surely have done it.
> >
> Be my guest, I'd still not risk it. When I had new vinyl laid in my kitchen about
> 25 years ago I opted for 1/4 inch plywood laid over it for a super smooth surface
> for the new vinyl.

Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates for you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them to quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the other one is padding expenses or not. Then, you get the cheapest price. That's when you ask them about making the floor level, for example.

On 2021-03-16 1:51 p.m., bruce bowser wrote:
> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 12:58:05 AM UTC-4,

>> Be my guest, I'd still not risk it. When I had new vinyl laid in my
>> kitchen about 25 years ago I opted for 1/4 inch plywood laid over
>> it for a super smooth surface for the new vinyl.
>
> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates for
> you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them to
> quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the other
> one is padding expenses or not. Then, you get the cheapest price.
> That's when you ask them about making the floor level, for example.
>

I doubt that you could get contractors to do that, and if they did come
they might get ****ed off and give you high estimates because they don't
want to work for someone who would do that.

For goodness sake don't do what my wife did when we had a plastered
estimate a job for us. We wanted to get the upstairs walls refinished
with interior stucco. It was hard to find someone who does that kind of
work but this company was recommended by a friend in the construction
business. When the guy was here my wife said that we didn't want to
spend more than $4000 on it. Son of a gun. The estimate came to a
little more than $3900.

On 3/16/2021 2:07 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2021-03-16 1:51 p.m., bruce bowser wrote:
>> On Monday, March 15, 2021 at 12:58:05 AM UTC-4,
>
>>> Be my guest, I'd still not risk it. When I had new vinyl laid in my
>>> kitchen about 25 years ago I opted for 1/4 inch plywood laid over
>>> it for a super smooth surface for the new vinyl.
>>
>> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates for
>> you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them to
>> quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the other
>> one is padding expenses or not. Then, you get the cheapest price.
>> That's when you ask them about making the floor level, for example.
>>
>
> I doubt that you could get contractors to do that, and if they did come
> they might get ****ed off and give you high estimates because they don't
> want to work for someone who would do that.
>
> For goodness sake don't do what my wife did when we had a plastered
> estimate a job for us. We wanted to get the upstairs walls refinished
> with interior stucco. It was hard to find someone who does that kind of
> work but this company was recommended by a friend in the construction
> business. When the guy was here my wife said that we didn't want to
> spend more than $4000 on it. Son of a gun. The estimate came to a little
> more than $3900.

Oh that's awful. Lesson learned; however - always get a quote first.
Let them throw out the first number.

On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 1:48:27 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>
> On 3/16/2021 2:07 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > When the guy was here my wife said that we didn't want to
> > spend more than $4000 on it. Son of a gun. The estimate came to a little
> > more than $3900.
> >
> Oh that's awful. Lesson learned; however - always get a quote first.
> Let them throw out the first number.
>
Just like when you car shop. Don't tell them you don't want a car note
over X amount of dollars. They will give you a car note for exactly the
price you requested but that car note will be for more years than you
planned on financing.

On 2021-03-16 2:48 p.m., Michael Trew wrote:
> On 3/16/2021 2:07 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>> For goodness sake don't do what my wife did when we had a plastered
>> estimate a job for us. We wanted to get the upstairs walls refinished
>> with interior stucco. It was hard to find someone who does that kind of
>> work but this company was recommended by a friend in the construction
>> business. When the guy was here my wife said that we didn't want to
>> spend more than $4000 on it. Son of a gun. The estimate came to a little
>> more than $3900.
>
> Oh that's awful.Â* Lesson learned; however - always get a quote first.
> Let them throw out the first number.

We were kind of stuck with that guy anyway because he was the only one
who was recommended and capable of doing what we wanted. Considering how
much work was done and the amount of stucco used, that could well have
been a good deal. They had to first prime the walls and ceilings in the
stairway and upstairs hallway and the three bedrooms. They had two or
three guys to prime the walls and then there was a crew of 5 plasterers
and they put in a good 12 hours on the day they applied the stucco.
Given the time and materials, it could well have been better than if she
had not said that.

However.... I told her later that went getting a bid not to let them knw
how much you are willing to spend. Better to have a disappointed look
and tell them you will have to think about it.

bruce bowser wrote:
> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates
> for you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them
> to quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the
> other one is padding expenses or not. Then, you get the cheapest price

Getting a few estimates is good but not all at the same moment.
If I showed up for an estimate and saw other contractors there, I'd just
leave. Screw your job.

And don't always pick the cheapest contractor just based on price.
Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Inferior products and substandard
work for a cheaper price.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:11:50 -0400, Gary > wrote:

>bruce bowser wrote:
>> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates
>> for you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them
>> to quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the
>> other one is padding expenses or not. Then, you get the cheapest price
>
>Getting a few estimates is good but not all at the same moment.
>If I showed up for an estimate and saw other contractors there, I'd just
>leave. Screw your job.
>
>And don't always pick the cheapest contractor just based on price.
>Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Inferior products and substandard
>work for a cheaper price.

Precisely... the cheap ends up expensive. Best to see photos of the
work and talk with the people he worked for.
I never look for the lowest price. I look for a photo album of the
prior jobs and contact information of the customers. The lowest price
is no different from the cheapest car tires.
The guy who did our hardwood floor came highly recommended and by
people we could speak with. He arrived with an expensive truck towing
a very nice closed trailer containing his entire machine shop... he
was well prepared to do the job. And he did the entire job working
alone... I wouldn't hire a subcontractor unless you're looking for a
cheap job with cheap workmanship. We never quibbled over his price,
we were looking for a top of the line job and that is what we got...
he did niceities we never would have thought of. He moved the stove
and fridge out and refloored those spots, he made up new baseboards
where needed, and transitional flooring at doorways. When he finished
we paid his bill and never had to call him to return for anything, he
made improvments we never would have thought of... he knew his shit.
He could have easily ripped people off but he didn't

On 3/17/2021 2:17 PM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:11:50 -0400, Gary > wrote:
>
>> bruce bowser wrote:
>>> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates
>>> for you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them
>>> to quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the
>>> other one is padding expenses or not. Then, you get the cheapest price
>>
>> Getting a few estimates is good but not all at the same moment.
>> If I showed up for an estimate and saw other contractors there, I'd just
>> leave. Screw your job.
>>
>> And don't always pick the cheapest contractor just based on price.
>> Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Inferior products and substandard
>> work for a cheaper price.
>
> Precisely... the cheap ends up expensive. Best to see photos of the
> work and talk with the people he worked for.
> I never look for the lowest price.

I was always one of the high priced painters. All of my customers were
referred by their friends or neighbors. Word of mouth was my only
advertising. Maybe about half of the jobs I got, they never even asked
for an estimate. They had already heard that I did quality work and
charged fairly. I was often able to charge less than an estimated price
and I did that.

On 3/17/2021 10:11 AM, Gary wrote:
> bruce bowser wrote:
>> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates
>> for you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them
>> to quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the
>> other one is padding expenses or not.Â* Then, you get the cheapest price
>
> Getting a few estimates is good but not all at the same moment.
> If I showed up for an estimate and saw other contractors there, I'd just
> leave. Screw your job.
>
> And don't always pick the cheapest contractor just based on price.
> Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Inferior products and substandard
> work for a cheaper price.
>
I wouldn't have everyone there at the same time, either. Definitely get
several different estimates for the exact same scope of work. It's easy
enough to figure out which ones might be trying to gouge you on the
price. If possible I'd also get recommendations from neighbors. Screw
online reviews; you never know who is writing them.

Jill

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021 16:59:31 -0400, jmcquown >
wrote:

>On 3/17/2021 10:11 AM, Gary wrote:
>> bruce bowser wrote:
>>> Get 4 or 5 separate installers over to the house for estimates
>>> for you - yes - literally - at the same time. That way you get them
>>> to quote prices to you at the same time and one can tell if the
>>> other one is padding expenses or not.* Then, you get the cheapest price
>>
>> Getting a few estimates is good but not all at the same moment.
>> If I showed up for an estimate and saw other contractors there, I'd just
>> leave. Screw your job.
>>
>> And don't always pick the cheapest contractor just based on price.
>> Sometimes, you get what you pay for. Inferior products and substandard
>> work for a cheaper price.
>>
>I wouldn't have everyone there at the same time, either. Definitely get
>several different estimates for the exact same scope of work. It's easy
>enough to figure out which ones might be trying to gouge you on the
>price. If possible I'd also get recommendations from neighbors. Screw
>online reviews; you never know who is writing them.
>
>Jill

Since living here I've gotten recommendations from neighbors.
I'll give a tradesman a small job at first to get an idea of the
quality of work. I needed a carpenter to replace two boards on our
wooden deck. He did a great job and used quality lumber. Next we had
him replace the wooden steps and he did a better job than we expected
and at a fair price. Now we know who to call for carpentry work. Next
we asked him to replace the door and door frame on our detached
garage... he installed a steel door and replaced the rotted wooden
frame with a steel frame, another great job. He recommended I have
the door and frame painted, he doesn't like to paint. I gave it all
two coats of white Rustoleum. I can get a good idea of the kind of
work a mechanic does as soon as I see how they keep their tools.