On 1/26/2021 9:27 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 9:49:48 AM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
>> On 1/25/2021 2:09 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2021 11:53 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 10:58:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-01-25 8:20 a.m., Snag wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/24/2021 2:33 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2021-01-24 3:00 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Main room is a bit too hot, the rest is fine from the leached
>>>>>>>>> heat at 71F. No gas or electricity used but it is somewhat labor
>>>>>>>>> intensive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don is really liking the electric splitter. Someone else here got one
>>>>>>>>> after I posted the link to it. Sorry, forgot who. It is underpowered
>>>>>>>>> for Snag probably but many others could find it useful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I mentioned before that I used my neighbour's splitter when I was
>>>>>>>> cleaning up the branch that fell on my house. BTW.... this was not a
>>>>>>>> small branch. It was about 2 ft. in diameter where his snapped off the
>>>>>>>> main trunk. It could not handle those big pieces but it had no
>>>>>>>> problems with those that were a foot or less across.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They are light enough to move around easily. They might not be
>>>>>>>> suitable for situations where there is not ready access to
>>>>>>>> electricity. You need to heavy duty extension cord to handle the
>>>>>>>> current requirement.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or a generator to power it out there . And if ya gotta haul power out
>>>>>>> there too you might as well have a gas splitter .
>>>>>> Exactly. By the time you get an electric splitter and a generator you
>>>>>> might as well just get the gas powered splitter. It will be more
>>>>>> powerful and less hassle to move around.
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH, a generator can provide household power during an outage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>> Which is why there's one big enough to power everything but the water
>>>> heater and AC under my workbench along with the hookup to feed the main
>>>> panel . I've also used it to power one of my welders for doing field
>>>> repairs . A country boy can survive ... because he thinks ahead and
>>>> prepares !
>>>
>>> Not just a country boy, although it's possible we're a tad bit less prepared for
>>> anything than we used to be.
>>>
>>> We had a portable generator; not big enough for welding IIRC. My husband
>>> was out of town one winter and I needed to use it after an ice storm. I
>>> wasn't strong enough to start it (but I got the neighbor to help). We replaced
>>> it with an automatic standby generator big enough for everything in the
>>> house, including the central air. It doesn't feed the hot tub, garage, or workshop,
>>> though. If we needed to fix anything during a power outage, we'd have to haul
>>> it and any power tools that we'd need up to the house. Most things are on
>>> wheels; I'm not sure about the table saw. Still, in a pinch I doubt we'd be doing
>>> any fine woodworking and the circular saw(s) would do just as well.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> The welder is a small 110V wire feed unit . Good for light work only
>> , under 3/16" mostly . My generator lives out in the shop , my hookup is
>> through the shop sub panel for now , though there are plans for a bigger
>> unit someday that's wired straight into the main via a transfer switch .
>> I do have to turn off the main breaker and breakers for the big
>> compressor and water heater , but we still have hot water at the kitchen
>> sink since it has a point of use heater under the house . I needed
>> hotter water for the dishwasher than the main unit is set to provide .
>
> I'm not sure what my husband's welder is. I know two things:
>
> He often shuts down the (220 V) hot tub pump/heater when he welds.
> Even when he does that, the lights dim a little when he's welding.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

Dimming lights means that the service voltage is dropping when he
welds . That means that your electric service is inadequate for the
loads being put on it . Right now we have a 100 amp service drop (the
'lectric company said that they'll replace that wire with a 200 amp for
free when I have enough load to justify, like central air or other
high-current appliance) , coming from a multi-hundred amp transformer
that feeds only our house . The main panel is a 200 amp unit , and the
shop feeds from a 100 amp/220V breaker . I've NEVER seen my lights dim
when I'm welding , or doing anything else out in the shop . You need to
ask your service provider to upgrade your service .
--
Snag
Illegitimi non
carborundum

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 8:14:07 AM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
> On 1/26/2021 9:27 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 9:49:48 AM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
> >> On 1/25/2021 2:09 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
> >>>> On 1/25/2021 11:53 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 10:58:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2021-01-25 8:20 a.m., Snag wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 1/24/2021 2:33 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 2021-01-24 3:00 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Exactly. Main room is a bit too hot, the rest is fine from the leached
> >>>>>>>>> heat at 71F. No gas or electricity used but it is somewhat labor
> >>>>>>>>> intensive.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Don is really liking the electric splitter. Someone else here got one
> >>>>>>>>> after I posted the link to it. Sorry, forgot who. It is underpowered
> >>>>>>>>> for Snag probably but many others could find it useful.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I mentioned before that I used my neighbour's splitter when I was
> >>>>>>>> cleaning up the branch that fell on my house. BTW.... this was not a
> >>>>>>>> small branch. It was about 2 ft. in diameter where his snapped off the
> >>>>>>>> main trunk. It could not handle those big pieces but it had no
> >>>>>>>> problems with those that were a foot or less across.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> They are light enough to move around easily. They might not be
> >>>>>>>> suitable for situations where there is not ready access to
> >>>>>>>> electricity. You need to heavy duty extension cord to handle the
> >>>>>>>> current requirement.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Or a generator to power it out there . And if ya gotta haul power out
> >>>>>>> there too you might as well have a gas splitter .
> >>>>>> Exactly. By the time you get an electric splitter and a generator you
> >>>>>> might as well just get the gas powered splitter. It will be more
> >>>>>> powerful and less hassle to move around.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> OTOH, a generator can provide household power during an outage.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>>>
> >>>> Which is why there's one big enough to power everything but the water
> >>>> heater and AC under my workbench along with the hookup to feed the main
> >>>> panel . I've also used it to power one of my welders for doing field
> >>>> repairs . A country boy can survive ... because he thinks ahead and
> >>>> prepares !
> >>>
> >>> Not just a country boy, although it's possible we're a tad bit less prepared for
> >>> anything than we used to be.
> >>>
> >>> We had a portable generator; not big enough for welding IIRC. My husband
> >>> was out of town one winter and I needed to use it after an ice storm. I
> >>> wasn't strong enough to start it (but I got the neighbor to help). We replaced
> >>> it with an automatic standby generator big enough for everything in the
> >>> house, including the central air. It doesn't feed the hot tub, garage, or workshop,
> >>> though. If we needed to fix anything during a power outage, we'd have to haul
> >>> it and any power tools that we'd need up to the house. Most things are on
> >>> wheels; I'm not sure about the table saw. Still, in a pinch I doubt we'd be doing
> >>> any fine woodworking and the circular saw(s) would do just as well.
> >>>
> >>> Cindy Hamilton
> >>>
> >> The welder is a small 110V wire feed unit . Good for light work only
> >> , under 3/16" mostly . My generator lives out in the shop , my hookup is
> >> through the shop sub panel for now , though there are plans for a bigger
> >> unit someday that's wired straight into the main via a transfer switch .
> >> I do have to turn off the main breaker and breakers for the big
> >> compressor and water heater , but we still have hot water at the kitchen
> >> sink since it has a point of use heater under the house . I needed
> >> hotter water for the dishwasher than the main unit is set to provide .
> >
> > I'm not sure what my husband's welder is. I know two things:
> >
> > He often shuts down the (220 V) hot tub pump/heater when he welds.
> > Even when he does that, the lights dim a little when he's welding.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
> >
> Dimming lights means that the service voltage is dropping when he
> welds . That means that your electric service is inadequate for the
> loads being put on it . Right now we have a 100 amp service drop (the
> 'lectric company said that they'll replace that wire with a 200 amp for
> free when I have enough load to justify, like central air or other
> high-current appliance) , coming from a multi-hundred amp transformer
> that feeds only our house . The main panel is a 200 amp unit , and the
> shop feeds from a 100 amp/220V breaker . I've NEVER seen my lights dim
> when I'm welding , or doing anything else out in the shop . You need to
> ask your service provider to upgrade your service .

We upgraded our service to 200 A about 20 years ago. 100 A to the garage
and shop; 100 A for the house.

Cindy Hamilton

On 1/27/2021 8:36 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 8:14:07 AM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
>> On 1/26/2021 9:27 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 9:49:48 AM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
>>>> On 1/25/2021 2:09 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 2:49:37 PM UTC-5, Snag wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/25/2021 11:53 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 10:58:12 AM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2021-01-25 8:20 a.m., Snag wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/24/2021 2:33 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2021-01-24 3:00 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. Main room is a bit too hot, the rest is fine from the leached
>>>>>>>>>>> heat at 71F. No gas or electricity used but it is somewhat labor
>>>>>>>>>>> intensive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Don is really liking the electric splitter. Someone else here got one
>>>>>>>>>>> after I posted the link to it. Sorry, forgot who. It is underpowered
>>>>>>>>>>> for Snag probably but many others could find it useful.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned before that I used my neighbour's splitter when I was
>>>>>>>>>> cleaning up the branch that fell on my house. BTW.... this was not a
>>>>>>>>>> small branch. It was about 2 ft. in diameter where his snapped off the
>>>>>>>>>> main trunk. It could not handle those big pieces but it had no
>>>>>>>>>> problems with those that were a foot or less across.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They are light enough to move around easily. They might not be
>>>>>>>>>> suitable for situations where there is not ready access to
>>>>>>>>>> electricity. You need to heavy duty extension cord to handle the
>>>>>>>>>> current requirement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or a generator to power it out there . And if ya gotta haul power out
>>>>>>>>> there too you might as well have a gas splitter .
>>>>>>>> Exactly. By the time you get an electric splitter and a generator you
>>>>>>>> might as well just get the gas powered splitter. It will be more
>>>>>>>> powerful and less hassle to move around.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OTOH, a generator can provide household power during an outage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is why there's one big enough to power everything but the water
>>>>>> heater and AC under my workbench along with the hookup to feed the main
>>>>>> panel . I've also used it to power one of my welders for doing field
>>>>>> repairs . A country boy can survive ... because he thinks ahead and
>>>>>> prepares !
>>>>>
>>>>> Not just a country boy, although it's possible we're a tad bit less prepared for
>>>>> anything than we used to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had a portable generator; not big enough for welding IIRC. My husband
>>>>> was out of town one winter and I needed to use it after an ice storm. I
>>>>> wasn't strong enough to start it (but I got the neighbor to help). We replaced
>>>>> it with an automatic standby generator big enough for everything in the
>>>>> house, including the central air. It doesn't feed the hot tub, garage, or workshop,
>>>>> though. If we needed to fix anything during a power outage, we'd have to haul
>>>>> it and any power tools that we'd need up to the house. Most things are on
>>>>> wheels; I'm not sure about the table saw. Still, in a pinch I doubt we'd be doing
>>>>> any fine woodworking and the circular saw(s) would do just as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>>>
>>>> The welder is a small 110V wire feed unit . Good for light work only
>>>> , under 3/16" mostly . My generator lives out in the shop , my hookup is
>>>> through the shop sub panel for now , though there are plans for a bigger
>>>> unit someday that's wired straight into the main via a transfer switch .
>>>> I do have to turn off the main breaker and breakers for the big
>>>> compressor and water heater , but we still have hot water at the kitchen
>>>> sink since it has a point of use heater under the house . I needed
>>>> hotter water for the dishwasher than the main unit is set to provide .
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what my husband's welder is. I know two things:
>>>
>>> He often shuts down the (220 V) hot tub pump/heater when he welds.
>>> Even when he does that, the lights dim a little when he's welding.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>> Dimming lights means that the service voltage is dropping when he
>> welds . That means that your electric service is inadequate for the
>> loads being put on it . Right now we have a 100 amp service drop (the
>> 'lectric company said that they'll replace that wire with a 200 amp for
>> free when I have enough load to justify, like central air or other
>> high-current appliance) , coming from a multi-hundred amp transformer
>> that feeds only our house . The main panel is a 200 amp unit , and the
>> shop feeds from a 100 amp/220V breaker . I've NEVER seen my lights dim
>> when I'm welding , or doing anything else out in the shop . You need to
>> ask your service provider to upgrade your service .
>
> We upgraded our service to 200 A about 20 years ago. 100 A to the garage
> and shop; 100 A for the house.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>

I'd be concerned with the lights dimming since you have sufficient
amperage capacity . I know there are welders that draw a bunch of
current , but those are not common in a home shop . Not many of us have
a need for a 350 amp welding rig , around 200 is probably the most
common for "hobby" use .
--
Snag
Illegitimi non
carborundum

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 07:13:39 -0600, Snag > wrote:

> Dimming lights means that the service voltage is dropping when he
>welds . That means that your electric service is inadequate for the
>loads being put on it . Right now we have a 100 amp service drop (the
>'lectric company said that they'll replace that wire with a 200 amp for
>free when I have enough load to justify, like central air or other
>high-current appliance) , coming from a multi-hundred amp transformer
>that feeds only our house . The main panel is a 200 amp unit , and the
>shop feeds from a 100 amp/220V breaker . I've NEVER seen my lights dim
>when I'm welding , or doing anything else out in the shop . You need to
>ask your service provider to upgrade your service .

Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
arrive when there's a surge in demand.

On 1/27/2021 12:50 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 07:13:39 -0600, Snag > wrote:
>
>> Dimming lights means that the service voltage is dropping when he
>> welds . That means that your electric service is inadequate for the
>> loads being put on it . Right now we have a 100 amp service drop (the
>> 'lectric company said that they'll replace that wire with a 200 amp for
>> free when I have enough load to justify, like central air or other
>> high-current appliance) , coming from a multi-hundred amp transformer
>> that feeds only our house . The main panel is a 200 amp unit , and the
>> shop feeds from a 100 amp/220V breaker . I've NEVER seen my lights dim
>> when I'm welding , or doing anything else out in the shop . You need to
>> ask your service provider to upgrade your service .
>
> Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
> while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
> to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
> arrive when there's a surge in demand.
>

And you actually bought that bullshit ? LMFAO . As I've said to my
wife about some of the bullshit MSM is pushing , you just can't make
this shit up .
--
Snag
Illegitimi non
carborundum

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:58:41 -0600, Snag > wrote:

>On 1/27/2021 12:50 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>
>> Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
>> while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
>> to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
>> arrive when there's a surge in demand.
>>
>And you actually bought that bullshit ? LMFAO . As I've said to my
>wife about some of the bullshit MSM is pushing , you just can't make
>this shit up .

MSM? I have a choice between believing a professional local
electrician or "Snag" from RFC. Who would you believe?

On 1/27/2021 8:17 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:58:41 -0600, Snag > wrote:
>
>> On 1/27/2021 12:50 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>>
>>> Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
>>> while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
>>> to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
>>> arrive when there's a surge in demand.
>>>
>> And you actually bought that bullshit ? LMFAO . As I've said to my
>> wife about some of the bullshit MSM is pushing , you just can't make
>> this shit up .
>
> MSM? I have a choice between believing a professional local
> electrician or "Snag" from RFC. Who would you believe?
>

Well maybe he doesn't realize that electricity , like light , travels
in excess of 186,000 miles/second . AAMOF I have had training in both
power distribution and electrical maintenance , with additional training
in electronics . The US Navy has excellent schools for their technical
personnel ... your guy probably bought his credentials from a corrupt
politician . BTW , do you have a license to sniff asses ? Probably the
only thing you are actually qualified to do , though the pay is shit .
BTW , I have done all the wiring in our house , and the lights NEVER
dim from load no matter what load I put on the system . All my wiring
meets or exceeds national code standards , even though we have no
building codes out here where we live .
--
Snag
Illegitimi non
carborundum

On 1/28/2021 6:36 AM, Snag wrote:
> On 1/27/2021 8:17 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:58:41 -0600, Snag > wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/27/2021 12:50 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>> Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
>>>> while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
>>>> to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
>>>> arrive when there's a surge in demand.
>>>>
>>> And you actually bought that bullshit ? LMFAO . As I've said to my
>>> wife about some of the bullshit MSM is pushing , you just can't make
>>> this shit up .
>>
>> MSM? I have a choice between believing a professional local
>> electrician or "Snag" from RFC. Who would you believe?
>>
>
> Well maybe he doesn't realize that electricity , like light , travels
> in excess of 186,000 miles/second . AAMOF I have had training in both
> power distribution and electrical maintenance , with additional training
> in electronics . The US Navy has excellent schools for their technical
> personnel ... your guy probably bought his credentials from a corrupt
> politician . BTW , do you have a license to sniff asses ? Probably the
> only thing you are actually qualified to do , though the pay is shit .
> BTW , I have done all the wiring in our house , and the lights NEVER
> dim from load no matter what load I put on the system . All my wiring
> meets or exceeds national code standards , even though we have no
> building codes out here where we live .
>


auto-transformers do not act instantaneously.

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021 08:36:25 -0600, Snag > wrote:

>On 1/27/2021 8:17 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:58:41 -0600, Snag > wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/27/2021 12:50 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>> Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
>>>> while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
>>>> to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
>>>> arrive when there's a surge in demand.
>>>>
>>> And you actually bought that bullshit ? LMFAO . As I've said to my
>>> wife about some of the bullshit MSM is pushing , you just can't make
>>> this shit up .
>>
>> MSM? I have a choice between believing a professional local
>> electrician or "Snag" from RFC. Who would you believe?
>>
>
> Well maybe he doesn't realize that electricity , like light , travels
>in excess of 186,000 miles/second . AAMOF I have had training in both
>power distribution and electrical maintenance , with additional training
>in electronics . The US Navy has excellent schools for their technical
>personnel ... your guy probably bought his credentials from a corrupt
>politician . BTW , do you have a license to sniff asses ? Probably the
>only thing you are actually qualified to do , though the pay is shit .

Bye bye, so much for an attempt at an intelligent conversation.

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 19:58:41 -0600, Snag > wrote:

>On 1/27/2021 12:50 PM, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2021 07:13:39 -0600, Snag > wrote:
>>
>>> Dimming lights means that the service voltage is dropping when he
>>> welds . That means that your electric service is inadequate for the
>>> loads being put on it . Right now we have a 100 amp service drop (the
>>> 'lectric company said that they'll replace that wire with a 200 amp for
>>> free when I have enough load to justify, like central air or other
>>> high-current appliance) , coming from a multi-hundred amp transformer
>>> that feeds only our house . The main panel is a 200 amp unit , and the
>>> shop feeds from a 100 amp/220V breaker . I've NEVER seen my lights dim
>>> when I'm welding , or doing anything else out in the shop . You need to
>>> ask your service provider to upgrade your service .
>>
>> Our lights briefly dim when the airco kicks in. When that happened
>> while an electrician was here, he said "Country energy". Our distance
>> to the power plant is so great that it takes a while for the power to
>> arrive when there's a surge in demand.
>>
>
> And you actually bought that bullshit ? LMFAO . As I've said to my
>wife about some of the bullshit MSM is pushing , you just can't make
>this shit up .

However in many rurqal ares it's true, there are voltace drops over
distance and during heavy usage. In rural areas very often
electricians install bargain basement panels, cheapo circuit breakers,
and cut corners on wire gauge. In rural areas people are naturally
cheap... when I had electric brought to my barn the electrician tried
to convince me to go with a 60 amp service, I wanted the 100 Amp
service that was installed to the rental house I had demolished. He
tried to convince me that I'd never need 100 amps in the barn. It
really didn't cost very much more for heavier wire. Most of the cost
was to backhoe the 350' trench to bury the wire, and backfill,
compared to the cost of the trench the heavier wire cost mere
pennies... I'd need the same trenchwork regardless the Amperage. Most
rural people can't think past the present moment. So now if I wanted
milk cows I can use a heavy duty milking machine and can have cows
with heavy duty bosoms.