On 2020-12-27 10:52 a.m., Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 9:34:00 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 7:33:19 AM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>> I've never heard of a lender giving a loan w/o an inspection.
>
> Apparently not in Michigan. They send someone out to assess that it's
> worth at least as much as the mortgage, but that's it. The assessor does
> a walk-around and I guess as long as everything looks reasonably ok,
> the mortgage gets written.
>

I knew a guy who lost his house over an evaluation. I had posted before
about a trout farm near here. A friend of mine grew up there. His
parents sold it to someone and then this other guy, who became a
co-worker bought it. He got it when real estate prices were really high
and borrowed a lot for it. When it came time to renew the mortgage the
value of the property had dropped to less than he owed and they would
not renew.

On 2020-12-27 11:09 a.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/27/2020 10:52 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

>> ApparentlyÂ* not in Michigan.Â* They send someone out to assess that it's
>> worth at least as much as the mortgage, but that's it.Â* The assessor does
>> a walk-around and I guess as long as everything looks reasonably ok,
>> the mortgage gets written.
>>
>> Cindy Hamilton
>>
>
> Many lenders are now requiring it.Â* When I bought my previous houses
> (1966, 1981) it was not a popular thing like it is now.


It seems to be quite common to get house inspections these days but I am
not sure who is demanding them. My son bought his first house about two
years ago and had the house inspection done by a co-worker who does
renovations on the side. So I am not sure about what sort of
qualifications are required for house inspections, and why a lender
would accept an inspection from someone without credentials.

My son bought another house this year. The offer was conditional on the
results of the home inspection.




>
> A few people here had their new home inspected before the warranty
> expired.Â* I had a very fussy builder and the house is perfect.Â* They did
> require an owner or owner's rep to do a walk through to be sure
> everything as as ordered. I did not see the inside of my house until I
> signed papers and got the keys.
>
> Mick Jagger recently bought a house for his girlfriend about 5 miles
> from us.Â* He did not visit it either and it cost much more than mine.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 12:36:17 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2020-12-27 11:09 a.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/27/2020 10:52 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>> Apparently* not in Michigan.* They send someone out to assess that it's
>>> worth at least as much as the mortgage, but that's it.* The assessor does
>>> a walk-around and I guess as long as everything looks reasonably ok,
>>> the mortgage gets written.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Many lenders are now requiring it.* When I bought my previous houses
>> (1966, 1981) it was not a popular thing like it is now.
>
>
> It seems to be quite common to get house inspections these days but I am
> not sure who is demanding them. My son bought his first house about two
> years ago and had the house inspection done by a co-worker who does
> renovations on the side. So I am not sure about what sort of
> qualifications are required for house inspections, and why a lender
> would accept an inspection from someone without credentials.
>
> My son bought another house this year. The offer was conditional on the
> results of the home inspection.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> A few people here had their new home inspected before the warranty
>> expired.* I had a very fussy builder and the house is perfect.* They did
>> require an owner or owner's rep to do a walk through to be sure
>> everything as as ordered. I did not see the inside of my house until I
>> signed papers and got the keys.
>>
>> Mick Jagger recently bought a house for his girlfriend about 5 miles
>> from us.* He did not visit it either and it cost much more than mine.

The latest con is that the house contains asbestos. FFS all houses over
about 30 years old have some in the ceilng stipple and the drywall mud. If
it was stuccoed, there's some there too.

On 12/27/2020 12:36 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-12-27 11:09 a.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/27/2020 10:52 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>
>>> ApparentlyÂ* not in Michigan.Â* They send someone out to assess that it's
>>> worth at least as much as the mortgage, but that's it.Â* The assessor
>>> does
>>> a walk-around and I guess as long as everything looks reasonably ok,
>>> the mortgage gets written.
>>>
>>> Cindy Hamilton
>>>
>>
>> Many lenders are now requiring it.Â* When I bought my previous houses
>> (1966, 1981) it was not a popular thing like it is now.
>
>
> It seems to be quite common to get house inspections these days but I am
> not sure who is demanding them. My son bought his first house about two
> years ago and had the house inspection done by a co-worker who does
> renovations on the side. So I am not sure about what sort of
> qualifications are required for house inspections, and why a lender
> would accept an inspection from someone without credentials.
>
> My son bought another house this year. The offer was conditional on the
> results of the home inspection.

In some states you can become a licensed inspector and have to pass a
test. That would at least help with the quality of the work done. I've
heard stories where major flaws were missed. Also, there is wording in
the contracts that the inspector is not liable if they miss something.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 05:33:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 8:29:11 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
>> On 12/26/2020 9:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> > On 12/26/2020 8:15 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> My son is looking for a house. I strongly advised him not to buy one
>> >> in one of
>> >> those tiny municipalities like Bel Nor. They have very little sales
>> >> tax base. We're
>> >> going to look at a house tomorrow, maybe two. Right now, if one can
>> >> afford the
>> >> down payment, and can get the mortgage loan, owning is cheaper than
>> >> renting
>> >> in the medium or long term. Interest rates are stupid low right now.
>> >>
>> >> --Bryan
>> >>
>> >
>> > Make sure he checks the roof. That can be a big expense in that area.
>> Doesn't someone (buyer or seller) pay for a house inspection before closing?
>
>Not always. On our latest (and last) house, our seller might have, but I doubt it.
>We did our own inspection, although we had a buddy of my husband's who's a
>stonemason come over and look at the exterior.
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection company to
check all aspects of the property. No one cares if the window shades
are crap but major defects have to be repaired by the seller.

Sheldon Martin wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 05:33:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 8:29:11 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >> On 12/26/2020 9:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > On 12/26/2020 8:15 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> My son is looking for a house. I strongly advised him not to
> buy one >> >> in one of
> >> >> those tiny municipalities like Bel Nor. They have very little
> sales >> >> tax base. We're
> >> >> going to look at a house tomorrow, maybe two. Right now, if one
> can >> >> afford the
> >> >> down payment, and can get the mortgage loan, owning is cheaper
> than >> >> renting
> >> >> in the medium or long term. Interest rates are stupid low right
> now. >> >>
> >> >> --Bryan
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Make sure he checks the roof. That can be a big expense in that
> area. >> Doesn't someone (buyer or seller) pay for a house
> inspection before closing?
> >
> > Not always. On our latest (and last) house, our seller might have,
> > but I doubt it. We did our own inspection, although we had a buddy
> > of my husband's who's a stonemason come over and look at the
> > exterior.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton
>
> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection company to
> check all aspects of the property. No one cares if the window shades
> are crap but major defects have to be repaired by the seller.

No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects. They
buyer simply decides to buy or not. The seller *may* discount the
price based on cost to repair defects, but they do not have to.

On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> Sheldon Martin wrote:

>> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection company to
>> check all aspects of the property. No one cares if the window shades
>> are crap but major defects have to be repaired by the seller.
>
> No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects. They
> buyer simply decides to buy or not. The seller *may* discount the
> price based on cost to repair defects, but they do not have to.
>
I have heard of cases of sellers having to pay for repairs for damages
that had not been disclosed. In order not to disclose something you have
to first know about it. Having a home inspector check the place out
should find things that need to be done and the seller can fix it or
discount it to make the sale.

We had a funny situation two doors down from us. There was a small
bungalow on a narrow lot, deep, but very narrow. An older couple bought
it with the intention of tearing it down and building their dream house
as the back end of the property, which would put their house right next
to our next door neighbour's house, and they were a privacy loving
couple. The started to gut the house while they applied for relief from
bylaws to allow them to build closer to the property line. We
neighbours fought it. His argument that he had already gutted the house
didn't work. He was rejected.

Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out, there
were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one. The farmer who
had owned it years ago did not put in a proper bed, just a lot of gravel
with a short line to the tank. The guy had to spent a small fortune
to put in a new septic tank and bed. He also had to restore all the
drywall he had ripped out.

On 12/27/2020 7:03 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>
> We had a funny situation two doors down from us. There was a small
> bungalow on a narrow lot, deep, but very narrow. An older couple bought
> it with the intention of tearing it down and building their dream house
> as the back end of the property, which would put their house right next
> to our next door neighbour's house, and they were a privacy loving
> couple.Â* The started to gut the house while they applied for relief from
> bylaws to allow them to build closer to the property line.Â* We
> neighbours fought it. His argument that he had already gutted the house
> didn't work. He was rejected.
>
> Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out, there
> were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one. The farmer who
> had owned it years ago did not put in a proper bed, just a lot of gravel
> with a short line to the tank.Â* The guy had to spent a smallÂ* fortune to
> put in a new septic tank and bed.Â* He also had to restore all the
> drywall he had ripped out.
>

About 50 miles from us a builder was putting up a new house and it was
6' from the house next door instead of the required 12'. House was
nearly done and they had to tear it down and rebuild another 6 feet
away. They were warned but figured on a variance.

On 2020-12-27 7:28 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 12/27/2020 7:03 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
already gutted the house didn't work. He was rejected.
>>
>> Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out, there
>> were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one. The farmer
>> who had owned it years ago did not put in a proper bed, just a lot of
>> gravel with a short line to the tank.Â* The guy had to spent a small
>> fortune to put in a new septic tank and bed.Â* He also had to restore
>> all the drywall he had ripped out.
>>
>
> About 50 miles from us a builder was putting up a new house and it was
> 6' from the house next door instead of the required 12'.Â* House was
> nearly done and they had to tear it down and rebuild another 6 feet
> away.Â* They were warned but figured on a variance.

I heard a funny story from my thesis advisor, who was not one to lie
or exaggerate. He said a friend had put up a fence on the property line
between his property and the nei1ghbour's. The neighbour waited until
the fence was finished and then complained to the city that the fence
was 6" over the property line. The city came to check and made him take
it down and move it 6". He did better than that. He moved it a foot.

About a year later the neighbour rebuilt his house and based the
location of the property line on the fence. The professor's friend
waited until the house was finished and went to the city to report that
the house was 6" too close to the property lawn. The city made the guy
tear down the new house.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-12-27 7:28 p.m., Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 12/27/2020 7:03 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>>
> *already gutted the house didn't work. He was rejected.
>>>
>>> Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out,
>>> there were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one.
>>> The farmer who had owned it years ago did not put in a proper
>>> bed, just a lot of gravel with a short line to the tank.Â* The
>>> guy had to spent a small fortune to put in a new septic tank and
>>> bed.Â* He also had to restore all the drywall he had ripped out.
>>>
>>
>> About 50 miles from us a builder was putting up a new house and
>> it was 6' from the house next door instead of the required 12'.Â
>> House was nearly done and they had to tear it down and rebuild
>> another 6 feet away.Â* They were warned but figured on a variance.
>
> *I heard a funny story from my thesis advisor, who was not one to
> lie or exaggerate. He said a friend had put up a fence on the
> property line between his property and the nei1ghbour's. The
> neighbour waited until the fence was finished and then complained
> to the city that the fence was 6" over the property line. The city
> came to check and made him take it down and move it 6".* He did
> better than that. He moved it a foot.
>
> About a year later the neighbour rebuilt his house and based the
> location of the property line on the fence. The professor's friend
> waited until the house was finished and went to the city to report
> that the house was 6" too close to the property lawn. The city made
> the guy tear down the new house.

Everyone and his brother has told that story. I remember hearing it
over 30 years ago.

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 19:46:56 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

> I heard a funny story from my thesis advisor, who was not one to lie
>or exaggerate. He said a friend had put up a fence on the property line
>between his property and the nei1ghbour's. The neighbour waited until
>the fence was finished and then complained to the city that the fence
>was 6" over the property line. The city came to check and made him take
>it down and move it 6". He did better than that. He moved it a foot.
>
>About a year later the neighbour rebuilt his house and based the
>location of the property line on the fence. The professor's friend
>waited until the house was finished and went to the city to report that
>the house was 6" too close to the property lawn. The city made the guy
>tear down the new house.

Where is the Christmas spirit in this story?

Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
>
> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
> > > by the seller.
> >
> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
> > They buyer simply decides to buy or not. The seller may discount
> > the price based on cost to repair defects, but they do not have to.
> >
> I have heard of cases of sellers having to pay for repairs for
> damages that had not been disclosed. In order not to disclose
> something you have to first know about it. Having a home inspector
> check the place out should find things that need to be done and the
> seller can fix it or discount it to make the sale.

State laws vary. Here, you don't have to disclose anything and can
sell 'as is'. No obligation on seller to fix anything. No obligation
to disclose.


> We had a funny situation two doors down from us. There was a small
> bungalow on a narrow lot, deep, but very narrow. An older couple
> bought it with the intention of tearing it down and building their
> dream house as the back end of the property, which would put their
> house right next to our next door neighbour's house, and they were a
> privacy loving couple. The started to gut the house while they
> applied for relief from bylaws to allow them to build closer to the
> property line. We neighbours fought it. His argument that he had
> already gutted the house didn't work. He was rejected.
>
> Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out, there
> were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one. The farmer
> who had owned it years ago did not put in a proper bed, just a lot of
> gravel with a short line to the tank. The guy had to spent a small
> fortune to put in a new septic tank and bed. He also had to restore
> all the drywall he had ripped out.

LOL! Buyers beware and check codes!

On 2020-12-27 9:13 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
already gutted the house didn't work. He was rejected.
>>
>> Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out, there
>> were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one. The farmer
>> who had owned it years ago did not put in a proper bed, just a lot of
>> gravel with a short line to the tank. The guy had to spent a small
>> fortune to put in a new septic tank and bed. He also had to restore
>> all the drywall he had ripped out.
>
> LOL! Buyers beware and check codes!
>

It was not a matter of buyer beware. They were trying to pull a fast
one. They paid cash for the property planning to tear down the house,
which was very close to the road, and then build a much bigger place
near the back of the property. The zoning regulations required 9 meters
from the structure to the property and they wanted relief from that and
to go to 2 meters on each side.

When I went to the hearing about it the guy said he talked to the woman
at town hall and she told him he would be able to do that. It is a
crock. Clerks at the tow=n do not tell people they can or can't do
something. They give them the documents and tell them to see how applies
to them. He knew that he was going to have a problem and figured that if
he first gutted the house the town would have to give him the relief he
wanted.

He also made the mistake of ****ing off Farmer John the owner of the
tree nursery that runs across the back up up the side of the property.
He offered to trade him two acres from the back for two acres with road
frontage, knowing that frontage is a lot more valuable. Both of them are
Dutch, so Farmer John was insulted that he tried to pull a fast one to
screw him.

The guy was a sleaze who was full of lies and tricks to get what he
wanted. It backfired on him. He ended up having to spend all that money
on the new septic system and new drywall to get back the money he had
paid for the house and property.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-12-27 9:13 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>
> already gutted the house didn't work. He was rejected.
>>>
>>> Now he had to sell a half gutted house, and, as it turned out,
>>> there
>>> were major issues with the septic bed. There wasn't one. The farmer
>>> who had owned it years ago did not put in a proper bed, just a
>>> lot of
>>> gravel with a short line to the tank.* The guy had to spent a small
>>> fortune to put in a new septic tank and bed.* He also had to
>>> restore
>>> all the drywall he had ripped out.
>>
>> LOL!* Buyers beware and check codes!
>>
>
> It was not a matter of buyer beware. They were trying to pull a
> fast one. They paid cash for the property planning to tear down the
> house, which was very close to the road, and then build a much
> bigger place near the back of the property. The zoning regulations
> required 9 meters from the structure to the property and they
> wanted relief from that and *to go to 2 meters on each side.
>
> When I went to the hearing about it the guy said he talked to the
> woman at town hall and she told him he would be able to do that. It
> is a crock. Clerks at the tow=n do not tell people they can or
> can't do something. They give them the documents and tell them to
> see how applies to them. He knew that he was going to have a
> problem and figured that if he first gutted the house the town
> would have to give him the relief he wanted.
>
> He also made the mistake of ****ing off Farmer John the owner of
> the tree nursery that runs across the back up up the side of the
> property. He offered to trade him two acres from the back for two
> acres with road frontage, knowing that frontage is a lot more
> valuable. Both of them are Dutch, so Farmer John was insulted that
> he tried to pull a fast one to screw him.
>
> The guy was a sleaze who was full of lies and tricks to get what he
> wanted.* It backfired on him. He ended up having to spend all that
> money on the* new septic system and new drywall to get back the
> money he had paid for the house and property.

Almost like a dutch soap opera.

On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 4:20:15 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 05:33:15 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 8:29:11 AM UTC-5, Gary wrote:
> >> On 12/26/2020 9:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> > On 12/26/2020 8:15 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> My son is looking for a house. I strongly advised him not to buy one
> >> >> in one of
> >> >> those tiny municipalities like Bel Nor. They have very little sales
> >> >> tax base. We're
> >> >> going to look at a house tomorrow, maybe two. Right now, if one can
> >> >> afford the
> >> >> down payment, and can get the mortgage loan, owning is cheaper than
> >> >> renting
> >> >> in the medium or long term. Interest rates are stupid low right now.
> >> >>
> >> >> --Bryan
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Make sure he checks the roof. That can be a big expense in that area.
> >> Doesn't someone (buyer or seller) pay for a house inspection before closing?
> >
> >Not always. On our latest (and last) house, our seller might have, but I doubt it.
> >We did our own inspection, although we had a buddy of my husband's who's a
> >stonemason come over and look at the exterior.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> heating, etc.

Read what I said, fool. He looked at the exterior. My husband looked
at the roof, electrical, plumbing, etc. He did as thorough an inspection
as any professional inspector we've ever hired.

Cindy Hamilton

On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 7:01:50 PM UTC-5, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
>
> >> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> >> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection company to
> >> check all aspects of the property. No one cares if the window shades
> >> are crap but major defects have to be repaired by the seller.
> >
> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects. They
> > buyer simply decides to buy or not. The seller *may* discount the
> > price based on cost to repair defects, but they do not have to.
> >
> I have heard of cases of sellers having to pay for repairs for damages
> that had not been disclosed. In order not to disclose something you have
> to first know about it. Having a home inspector check the place out
> should find things that need to be done and the seller can fix it or
> discount it to make the sale.

The laws in Canada are different. Here, you only have to disclose problems
you know about.

We have really old insulation in the attic. It probably has asbestos mixed
in. The previous owner didn't have it tested, so he didn't have to disclose it.
We haven't had it tested, so we don't have to disclose it if we sell.

Here's the weak-ass Michigan seller's disclosure form:

<https://www.mirealtors.com/Portals/0/Documents/FormH.pdf>

Cindy Hamilton

On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>
>> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
>> > > by the seller.
>> >
>> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.

Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.

There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> >Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
> >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
> >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
> >> > > by the seller.
> >> >
> >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>
> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
> are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.

Can you give us examples of these major flaws?

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:58:00 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>> >Dave Smith wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>> >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>> >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>> >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>> >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
>> >> > > by the seller.
>> >> >
>> >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>
>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>> are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>
>Can you give us examples of these major flaws?
>
>Cindy Hamilton

Easy... majorly damaged/cracked foundations, leaking roofs, plumbing
and electricals not to code. There are many flaws that can legally
prevent a sale... a chimney can be damaged, a heating system can be a
fail, domestic water can be polluted, a septic system can be
inadequate... not to mention that toilets that won't flush. Even
cracked driveways wont pass inspection. Your stone mason is nowhere
near qualified to inspect a house, thats a jerk-o comment... stone
masons know absolutely nothing of house inspections. Actually the
most important inspection is to have a survey made, I wouldn't buy any
property without first having my own survey made... I want to know
where my property begins and ends.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:58:05 PM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >
> > >Dave Smith wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> > >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> > >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
> > >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
> > >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
> > >> > > by the seller.
> > >> >
> > >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
> > Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
> >
> > There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
> > are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
> > building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
> > evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
> Can you give us examples of these major flaws?
>
I don't know about in New York, but in Missouri you can sell a house "as is"
not matter what is wrongs with it. Thing is, you can't get a conventional
mortgage on an as is. We bought the house we live in now as is, and the
lender required a 20% down payment.

We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.

What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
small child.

We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.

He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
child in many ways.

Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
clone of myself.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

--Bryan

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
> wrote:

>We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
>living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
>income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
>rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
>but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>
>What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
>it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
>small child.
>
>We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
>guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
>washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
>are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
>
>He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
>he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
>to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
>stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
>that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
>autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
>while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
>child in many ways.
>
>Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
>decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
>away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
>clone of myself.

Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:04:22 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
> > wrote:
>
>>We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>>borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>>doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>>won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>>worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
>>living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
>>income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
>>rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
>>but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>>
>>What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
>>it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
>>small child.
>>
>>We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
>>guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
>>washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
>>are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
>>
>>He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
>>he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
>>to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
>>stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
>>that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
>>autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
>>while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
>>child in many ways.
>>
>>Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
>>decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
>>away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
>>clone of myself.
>
> Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?

Best summarised as: "I'm alright, Jack! I've made it so f--k everybody
else!"

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 18:39:11 -0700, Graham > wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 12:04:22 +1100, Master Bruce wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>>>borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>>>doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>>>won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>>>worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
>>>living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
>>>income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
>>>rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
>>>but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>>>
>>>What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
>>>it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
>>>small child.
>>>
>>>We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
>>>guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
>>>washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
>>>are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
>>>
>>>He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
>>>he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
>>>to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
>>>stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
>>>that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
>>>autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
>>>while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
>>>child in many ways.
>>>
>>>Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
>>>decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
>>>away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
>>>clone of myself.
>>
>> Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?
>
>Best summarised as: "I'm alright, Jack! I've made it so f--k everybody
>else!"

Lovely.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:04:28 PM UTC-6, Master Bruce wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
> > wrote:
>
> >We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
> >borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
> >doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
> >won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
> >worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
> >living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
> >income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
> >rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
> >but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
> >
> >What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
> >it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
> >small child.
> >
> >We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
> >guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
> >washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
> >are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
> >
> >He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
> >he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
> >to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
> >stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
> >that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
> >autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
> >while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
> >child in many ways.
> >
> >Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
> >decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
> >away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
> >clone of myself.
> Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?
>
Pretty much, though he's not extreme, just not as lefty as me, and certainly
not as much as my wife. He's not a kook, and doesn't deny climate change,
or hold any beliefs that contradict science. This is a person who has read
*War and Peace* (the whole book) and *Crime and Punishment*. Sure, he's
still naive, but he's 19. I should recommend Adam Smith, especially *The
Theory of Moral Sentiments*. One book that I feel that everyone should
read is *A Christmas Carol*.

******************
"Do you have a favorite book?"
Winter had to think. "No, but I'm crazy about Shakespeare, and I love Dickens."
"A Christmas Carol always makes me cry. If I start thinking about it, I'll be
blubbering again."
Winter almost told Ann that Ian had said almost exactly the same thing, but
didn't voice it because she needed to keep the two of them separate in her
own mind.
"My parents didn't approve of the story. They thought it was heretical
because it had ghosts, but the ghosts in A Christmas Carol were like angels.
It was just that they were called ghosts. They couldn't get past that.
Scrooge finds Jesus' love, and he's changed."
"Ann, it's one of the most wonderful stories ever. A person rejects
selfishness, and embraces generosity. Whatever one's religious beliefs."
"Do you believe?"
"No. Can you, are you OK with that?"
"You've made me believe even more. Are you OK with that?"
"I am."
******************

--Bryan

Master Bruce wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
> > wrote:
>
>> We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>> borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>> doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>> won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>> worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
>> living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
>> income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
>> rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
>> but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>>
>> What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
>> it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
>> small child.
>>
>> We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
>> guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
>> washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
>> are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
>>
>> He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
>> he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
>> to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
>> stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
>> that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
>> autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
>> while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
>> child in many ways.
>>
>> Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
>> decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
>> away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
>> clone of myself.
>
> Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?
>

Good sniff there master.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:50:29 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
> wrote:

>On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 7:04:28 PM UTC-6, Master Bruce wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>> >borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>> >doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>> >won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>> >worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
>> >living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
>> >income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
>> >rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
>> >but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>> >
>> >What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
>> >it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
>> >small child.
>> >
>> >We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
>> >guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
>> >washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
>> >are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
>> >
>> >He mentioned that he'll be having us over for dinner often, and I'm sure
>> >he'll be coming over here for dinner often as well. This is a nice transition
>> >to him moving out. He's fiercely independent. A lot of kids go though a
>> >stage where they want little to do with parents for several years, whether
>> >that's going away to college or just moving out. He established his
>> >autonomy earlier, doing his own laundry, buying his own clothes, etc.
>> >while he was still in high school, and it's already like he's a fully adult
>> >child in many ways.
>> >
>> >Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
>> >decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
>> >away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
>> >clone of myself.
>
>> Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?
>>
>Pretty much, though he's not extreme, just not as lefty as me, and certainly
>not as much as my wife. He's not a kook, and doesn't deny climate change,
>or hold any beliefs that contradict science.

As long as he didn't vote for the Orange Man Child.

Sheldon Martin wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
> >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
> >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
> repaired >> > > by the seller.
> >> >
> >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>
> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>
> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
> are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.

Bullshit Sheldon.

On 12/28/2020 7:56 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:

>
> We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
> borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
> doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
> won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
> worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
> living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
> income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
> rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
> but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>
> What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
> it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
> small child.
>
> We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
> guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
> washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
> are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.

> --Bryan
>

I'm surprised he can't be on the loan as it would be a benefit to him I
would think.
I took out a mortgage at age 20 to buy my first house with no problem
but my mother was on the deed as I could not buy property myself until I
was 21. I forget the exact wording but once I was 21 it reverted to me.

Good that he is smart enough and able to buy at a young age rather than
collect rent receipts.

On 12/28/2020 8:39 PM, Graham wrote:

>>>
>>> Truth be told, my only disappointment with him is his politics, which is
>>> decidedly libertarian compared to his parents. That's not going to go
>>> away, maybe not ever, but he's his own person, and I never wanted a
>>> clone of myself.
>>
>> Libertarian is non-religious right-wing?
>
> Best summarised as: "I'm alright, Jack! I've made it so f--k everybody
> else!"
>

Our present Congress has been that way for years.

On 12/28/2020 10:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>>>>>> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>>>>>> company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>>>>>> the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
>> repaired >> > > by the seller.
>>>>>
>>>>> No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>>
>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>
>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>> are negotiable, but major flaws need to be repaired or the local
>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>
> Bullshit Sheldon.
>

Semi Bullshit. A house can be declared uninhabitable by the local code
enforcement agency. More likely to happen with a rental property after
complaints from a tenant.

Typically, a condemned property cannot be sold as a structure. The
property can usually still be sold as land, though the value is actually
reduced due to the buyer expense of tearing down the condemned house and
hauling it away, making it difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage loan.

Owner occupied properties can be deemed uninhabitable after a fire or
other structural damage. I don't know about eviction though.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 01:04:09 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 12/28/2020 7:56 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
>
>>
>> We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>> borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>> doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>> won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>> worries. That kid will be outearning me pretty soon. He figures he'll be
>> living there for 2 or 3 years, and by then he'll have sufficient demonstrable
>> income to buy a house that he really wants, and can keep that one as a
>> rental property. It's not in one of those tiny municipalities (like Bel Nor),
>> but in University City, about 12 minutes from here in light traffic.
>>
>> What's a trip is that when he emailed some of his friends about the house,
>> it turns out that one of his friends lived in that very house when he was a
>> small child.
>>
>> We're not spending a penny of our own money on the house, but merely
>> guaranteeing the loan. The one thing that the house doesn't have is a
>> washer/dryer, and for a move-in present (he doesn't know this yet), we
>> are going to buy him a nice Speed Queen washer, and a cheap ass dryer.
>
>> --Bryan
>>
>
>I'm surprised he can't be on the loan as it would be a benefit to him I
>would think.
>I took out a mortgage at age 20 to buy my first house with no problem
>but my mother was on the deed as I could not buy property myself until I
>was 21. I forget the exact wording but once I was 21 it reverted to me.
>
>Good that he is smart enough and able to buy at a young age

The latter only thanks to his parents. Not that there's anything wrong
with that.

On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 4:44:24 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 10:58:00 -0800 (PST), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Dave Smith wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> >> >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> >> >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
> >> >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
> >> >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
> >> >> > > by the seller.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
> >> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
> >>
> >> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
> >> are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
> >> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
> >> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
> >
> >Can you give us examples of these major flaws?
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton
> Easy... majorly damaged/cracked foundations, leaking roofs, plumbing
> and electricals not to code.

There is no requirement for plumbing and electrical to be at current
code when a house is sold. For example, my kitchen had too few outlets
to be code-compliant when I bought it. We have since added outlets
for our own convenience.

> There are many flaws that can legally
> prevent a sale... a chimney can be damaged, a heating system can be a
> fail, domestic water can be polluted, a septic system can be
> inadequate... not to mention that toilets that won't flush. Even
> cracked driveways wont pass inspection.

In the State of Michigan, no inspection is performed when a house
is sold except at the buyer's discretion. The law does not require
an inspection at the time of sale if the house already has an
occupancy permit.

> Your stone mason is nowhere
> near qualified to inspect a house,

Read it a third time. The stonemason looked at the split-fieldstone
veneer on the outside of our house and made sure the mortar was
in good shape. My husband inspected the rest of the house, including
the heating, plumbing, electrical, and roof.

> thats a jerk-o comment... stone
> masons know absolutely nothing of house inspections. Actually the
> most important inspection is to have a survey made, I wouldn't buy any
> property without first having my own survey made... I want to know
> where my property begins and ends.

The lender required that a survey be made prior to making the mortgage.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 16:56:11 -0800 (PST), Bryan Simmons
> wrote:

>On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:58:05 PM UTC-6, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> On Monday, December 28, 2020 at 12:56:55 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
>> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>> > >Dave Smith wrote:
>> > >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>> > >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>> > >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>> > >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>> > >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be repaired
>> > >> > > by the seller.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>> > Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>> >
>> > There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>> > are negotiable, but major flaws need to be repaired or the local
>> > building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>> > evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>> Can you give us examples of these major flaws?
>>
>I don't know about in New York, but in Missouri you can sell a house "as is"
>not matter what is wrongs with it. Thing is, you can't get a conventional
>mortgage on an as is. We bought the house we live in now as is, and the
>lender required a 20% down payment.

As is means minor damage like leaky faucets, cracks in sheet rock,
stained/ripped floor coverings, and other minor flaws that are
cosmetic, but still needs to be up to code on the majors like
electric, heating, plumbing. In NY the trees/shrubbery can be dead,
the garage door can't be opened, stuck windows, door locks inoperable,
burned out light bulbs, toilet won't flush, bathtub rusted/stained,
etc., cosmetic damage can be negotiated but won't stop a sale. But
the electric system, heating, and plumbing must meet or exceed code.
>We're buying a house for my son. It's only $85K. We have to be the
>borrowers, and can't even have my son on the mortgage at all because he
>doesn't have 2 years of steady income. He'll be making the payments. It
>won't cost us anything, but we'll be solely responsible for the loan. No
>worries.

So son is a pauper... he'll never make the first payment.

Yoose will have a hell of a time obtaining property insurance, to
obtain insurance a property MUST be owner occupied... and it's not
easy to obtain a mortgage without owner occupancy, Otherwise the
lender has no way of ensuring that your son won't trash the house, and
disappear. You are a fool to buy your son a house and take a mortgage
on it in your name... gauranteed he will screw you royally, I've seen
it too many times... he may not mean to screw you at first but when
he's up against a wall gauranteed he will. Word of advice, if your
son can't afford a house tell him to rent and from someone other than
you. In the end what will happen is that neither of you will ever
speak to each other again. Truth be told from what you wrote you are
trying to screw your son too, coniving to get him to pay for what he
doesn't own and will never own. The acorn doesn't fall far from the
tree... you douchebags deserve each other. If you loved your son
you'd buy that house and give it to him as a *gift*. Son has no job ,
how do you reccon he can pay your mortgage, taxes, maintainence, etc?
Son is a bum! YOU'RE A BIGGER BUM!

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 01:18:53 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 12/28/2020 10:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>>>>>>> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>>>>>>> company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>>>>>>> the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
>>> repaired >> > > by the seller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>>>
>>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>>
>>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>>> are negotiable, but major flaws need to be repaired or the local
>>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>>
>> Bullshit Sheldon.
>>
>
>Semi Bullshit. A house can be declared uninhabitable by the local code
>enforcement agency. More likely to happen with a rental property after
>complaints from a tenant.
>
>Typically, a condemned property cannot be sold as a structure. The
>property can usually still be sold as land, though the value is actually
>reduced due to the buyer expense of tearing down the condemned house and
>hauling it away, making it difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage loan.
>
>Owner occupied properties can be deemed uninhabitable after a fire or
>other structural damage. I don't know about eviction though.

It's very expensive to have a house demolished and hauled away, I know
because I recently had it done with a small rental house here... cost
me $20,000 but was worth it not to deal with douchebag tenants who
don't pay rent plus with that house gone our property taxes were
reduced by $2,400 per year. Yes, had to have the sheriff evict the
tenants, put their trashy belongings out to the curb, another PIA...
but was worth it watching all their worthless belongings picked up by
the trash company. They never paid their electric bill and owed some
$5 Grand... raises the rates for us honest folk.
We're very happy not to have tenants anymore. I had several tenants
on Lung Guyland, always got rent paid on time, even a year in advance
by post dated checks so they didn't have to see me come to collect...
I didn't like collecting from faggots anyway, but they were excellent
tenants, faggots make good money, are clean, and always pay. They
didn't want me to visit because they changed partners on an almost
daily basis. Didn't matter to me, their checks never bounced. The
last faggot ended up buying the house when I told him I was leaving
Lung Guyland. He paid rent for over ten years, would have saved a
bundle had he bought it when I offered it years sooner, He had a very
good job maintaining a huge high rise office building in Manhattan. I
owned several houses on Lung Guyland. I tryed not to rent to females
because most tried to pay their rent in flesh, never worked with me as
I had mortgaes to pay... plus female tenants were not very good
looking or they would't be renters. With some I'd need to have an
attractive female realter pretend to be my girlfriend.
I learned that faggots are loathe to make life altering decisions
because they never know who their next lover will be... they change
partners like normal people change socks.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 01:18:53 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 12/28/2020 10:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>>>>>>> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>>>>>>> company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>>>>>>> the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
>>> repaired >> > > by the seller.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>>>
>>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>>
>>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>>> are negotiable, but major flaws need to be repaired or the local
>>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>>
>> Bullshit Sheldon.
>>
>
>Semi Bullshit. A house can be declared uninhabitable by the local code
>enforcement agency. More likely to happen with a rental property after
>complaints from a tenant.
>
>Typically, a condemned property cannot be sold as a structure. The
>property can usually still be sold as land, though the value is actually
>reduced due to the buyer expense of tearing down the condemned house and
>hauling it away, making it difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage loan.
>
>Owner occupied properties can be deemed uninhabitable after a fire or
>other structural damage. I don't know about eviction though.

I've not had it happen to me but I know of two instances where the
houses burned to the ground, fortunately no one was at home. There
are agencies that find housing for those people, they obviously were
not evicted, they were relocated.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 21:12:00 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:

>Sheldon Martin wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>> >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>> >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>> >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>> >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
>> repaired >> > > by the seller.
>> >> >
>> >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>>
>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>
>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>> are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>
>Bullshit Sheldon.

A property must meet building codes to be sold. To be perfectly
honest I don't believe that you own the house you live in... it's very
obvious that you rent that hovel.

Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 01:18:53 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 12/28/2020 10:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>>>>>>>> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>>>>>>>> company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>>>>>>>> the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
>>>> repaired >> > > by the seller.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>>>>
>>>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>>>
>>>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>>>> are negotiable, but major flaws need to be repaired or the local
>>>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>>>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>>>
>>> Bullshit Sheldon.
>>>
>>
>> Semi Bullshit. A house can be declared uninhabitable by the local code
>> enforcement agency. More likely to happen with a rental property after
>> complaints from a tenant.
>>
>> Typically, a condemned property cannot be sold as a structure. The
>> property can usually still be sold as land, though the value is actually
>> reduced due to the buyer expense of tearing down the condemned house and
>> hauling it away, making it difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage loan.
>>
>> Owner occupied properties can be deemed uninhabitable after a fire or
>> other structural damage. I don't know about eviction though.
>
> It's very expensive to have a house demolished and hauled away, I know
> because I recently had it done with a small rental house here... cost
> me $20,000 but was worth it not to deal with douchebag tenants who
> don't pay rent plus with that house gone our property taxes were
> reduced by $2,400 per year. Yes, had to have the sheriff evict the
> tenants, put their trashy belongings out to the curb, another PIA...
> but was worth it watching all their worthless belongings picked up by
> the trash company. They never paid their electric bill and owed some
> $5 Grand... raises the rates for us honest folk.
> We're very happy not to have tenants anymore. I had several tenants
> on Lung Guyland, always got rent paid on time, even a year in advance
> by post dated checks so they didn't have to see me come to collect...
> I didn't like collecting from faggots anyway, but they were excellent
> tenants, faggots make good money, are clean, and always pay. They
> didn't want me to visit because they changed partners on an almost
> daily basis. Didn't matter to me, their checks never bounced. The
> last faggot ended up buying the house when I told him I was leaving
> Lung Guyland. He paid rent for over ten years, would have saved a
> bundle had he bought it when I offered it years sooner, He had a very
> good job maintaining a huge high rise office building in Manhattan. I
> owned several houses on Lung Guyland. I tryed not to rent to females
> because most tried to pay their rent in flesh, never worked with me as
> I had mortgaes to pay... plus female tenants were not very good
> looking or they would't be renters. With some I'd need to have an
> attractive female realter pretend to be my girlfriend.
> I learned that faggots are loathe to make life altering decisions
> because they never know who their next lover will be... they change
> partners like normal people change socks.
>

Popeye, yoose could have simply put a paper bag over them ugly
gal's heads. And drank lots of crystal palace. Maybe injected some
cream into their crotch.

Would have saved yoose $25000.

Sheldon Martin wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2020 01:18:53 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 12/28/2020 10:12 PM, cshenk wrote:
>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>>>>> Sheldon Martin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
>>>>>>>> heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
>>>>>>>> company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
>>>>>>>> the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
>>>> repaired >> > > by the seller.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
>>>>
>>>> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
>>>>
>>>> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
>>>> are negotiable, but major flaws need to be repaired or the local
>>>> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
>>>> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
>>>
>>> Bullshit Sheldon.
>>>
>>
>> Semi Bullshit. A house can be declared uninhabitable by the local code
>> enforcement agency. More likely to happen with a rental property after
>> complaints from a tenant.
>>
>> Typically, a condemned property cannot be sold as a structure. The
>> property can usually still be sold as land, though the value is actually
>> reduced due to the buyer expense of tearing down the condemned house and
>> hauling it away, making it difficult for a buyer to get a mortgage loan.
>>
>> Owner occupied properties can be deemed uninhabitable after a fire or
>> other structural damage. I don't know about eviction though.
>
> I've not had it happen to me but I know of two instances where the
> houses burned to the ground, fortunately no one was at home. There
> are agencies that find housing for those people, they obviously were
> not evicted, they were relocated.
>

Popeye, when yoose drinking crystal palace, don't play with matches.

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5, Sheldon wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 21:12:00 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
>
> >Sheldon Martin wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 20:13:53 -0600, "cshenk" > wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 2020-12-27 6:45 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> >> >> > Sheldon Martin wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > > Yeah, a stone mason is an expert at roofs, electric, plumbing,
> >> >> > > heating, etc. Generally the buyer pays a house inspection
> >> >> > > company to check all aspects of the property. No one cares if
> >> >> > > the window shades are crap but major defects have to be
> >> repaired >> > > by the seller.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No Sheldon, the seller does not have to repair any major defects.
> >>
> >> Of course not, the seller can decide not to sell.
> >>
> >> There's no such thing as a perfect house, which is why minor defects
> >> are negotiable, but jmajor flaws need to be repaired or the local
> >> building code enforcement authority will stop all sales and likely
> >> evict the owner, may tear down the house and bill the owner.
> >
> >Bullshit Sheldon.
> A property must meet building codes to be sold. To be perfectly
> honest I don't believe that you own the house you live in... it's very
> obvious that you rent that hovel.

Bullshit. Even condemned properties are sold every day. They must
be fixed before someone can move in.

Thousands of substandard houses are sold and renovated every
year. I give you: The City of Detroit.

Cindy Hamilton

In article >, penmart01
@aol.com says...

> Yoose will have a hell of a time obtaining property insurance, to
> obtain insurance a property MUST be owner occupied...

Rubbish, Sheldon. I've never had the slightest difficulty insuring
property occupied by tenants. It's called landlord insurance.


>and it's not
> easy to obtain a mortgage without owner occupancy,

Really? Buy-to-let mortgages are common in UK. Specially for
Landlords who buy properties to let.


Janet UK