The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
and printed on up. It was a little different from the old on. It
called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked
much. The batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out
slowly and over filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and
crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the
texture was a flop.

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>and printed on up. It was a little different from the old on. It
>called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked
>much. The batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out
>slowly and over filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and
>crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the
>texture was a flop.

Perhaps you need to find some recipes on line and compare them to the
recipe you used:
https://search.aol.com/aol/search?q=...t=loki-keyword

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>and printed on up. It was a little different from the old on. It
>called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked
>much. The batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out
>slowly and over filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and
>crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the
>texture was a flop.

are you using a different brand of flour now? they are all milled
differently.

On 2018-12-09 2:38 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>> for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>> morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>> and printed on up. It was a little different from the old on. It
>> called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>> have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked
>> much. The batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out
>> slowly and over filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and
>> crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the
>> texture was a flop.
>
> are you using a different brand of flour now? they are all milled
> differently.
>

I always use Robin Hood unbleached all purpose. The yeast just didn't
seem to work. It's possible that the milk was too hot and ruined the
yeast. My old recipe called for scalding the milk and then adding an
equal amount of water which then brought the temperature down to
something conducive to yeast working.

The crumpets were edible, but they sure weren't as good as my earlier
escapades with them. I never counted on advice on them before because I
don't know anyone who makes them.

I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
increasingly disappointed with the store bought products. That was when
I decided to try making them. They were a major success. Damn, I wish I
had the old recipe.

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 17:30:44 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-09 2:38 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>>> for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>>> morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>>> and printed on up. It was a little different from the old on. It
>>> called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>>> have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked
>>> much. The batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out
>>> slowly and over filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and
>>> crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the
>>> texture was a flop.
>>
>> are you using a different brand of flour now? they are all milled
>> differently.
>>
>
>I always use Robin Hood unbleached all purpose. The yeast just didn't
>seem to work. It's possible that the milk was too hot and ruined the
>yeast. My old recipe called for scalding the milk and then adding an
>equal amount of water which then brought the temperature down to
>something conducive to yeast working.
>
>The crumpets were edible, but they sure weren't as good as my earlier
>escapades with them. I never counted on advice on them before because I
>don't know anyone who makes them.
>
>I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
>increasingly disappointed with the store bought products. That was when
>I decided to try making them. They were a major success. Damn, I wish I
>had the old recipe.
>
no hotter than 110F and even then I make sure to mix with other
ingredients promptly

On 12/9/2018 5:30 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> On 2018-12-09 2:38 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>>> for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>>> morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>>> and printed on up.Â* It was a little different from the old on.Â* It
>>> called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>>> have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked
>>> much.Â* The batter was much denser than my old recipe.Â* It glooped out
>>> slowly and over filled the rings.Â* The never developed the nooks and
>>> crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the
>>> texture was a flop.
>>
>> are you using a different brand of flour now?Â* they are all milled
>> differently.
>>
>
> I always use Robin Hood unbleached all purpose.Â* The yeast just didn't
> seem to work. It's possible that the milk was too hot and ruined the
> yeast. My old recipe called for scalding the milk and then adding an
> equal amount of water which then brought the temperature down to
> something conducive to yeast working.
>
> The crumpets were edible, but they sure weren't as good as my earlier
> escapades with them.Â* I never counted on advice on them before because I
> don't know anyone who makes them.
>
> I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
> increasingly disappointed with the store bought products.Â* That was when
> I decided to try making them. They were a major success.Â* Damn, I wish I
> had the old recipe.
>
It sounds like you got rid of your old JoC cookbook when you got a later
edition. That's a shame. Better luck next time!

Jill

On 2018-12-10 8:49 AM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 12/9/2018 5:30 PM, Dave Smith wrote:

>> I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
>> increasingly disappointed with the store bought products.Â* That was
>> when I decided to try making them. They were a major success.Â* Damn, I
>> wish I had the old recipe.
>>
> It sounds like you got rid of your old JoC cookbook when you got a later
> edition.Â* That's a shame. Â* Better luck next time!
>


I had heard about changes in newer editions of JoC. I had checked a
number of my old standards and they were there. It is a shame that
someone in this house keeps the cookbook open near where we works and
slopped up the pages with the most used recipes. Some were no longer
readable. Aside from the altered or missing recipes, the print is a lot
smaller in the new one.

On the plus side.... I have a computer and printer and access to an
endless supply of recipes on the internet. Most of those I use these
days have been entered into the computer. I have a folder full of good
recipes and a couple binders with hard copies. I really don't use the
cookbooks very often.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2018-12-10 8:49 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>> On 12/9/2018 5:30 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>> I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
>>> increasingly disappointed with the store bought products. That was when
>>> I decided to try making them. They were a major success. Damn, I wish I
>>> had the old recipe.
>>>
>> It sounds like you got rid of your old JoC cookbook when you got a later
>> edition. That's a shame. Better luck next time!
>>
>
>
> I had heard about changes in newer editions of JoC. I had checked a number
> of my old standards and they were there. It is a shame that someone in
> this house keeps the cookbook open near where we works and slopped up the
> pages with the most used recipes. Some were no longer readable. Aside from
> the altered or missing recipes, the print is a lot smaller in the new one.
>
> On the plus side.... I have a computer and printer and access to an
> endless supply of recipes on the internet. Most of those I use these
> days have been entered into the computer. I have a folder full of good
> recipes and a couple binders with hard copies. I really don't use the
> cookbooks very often.

Somebody gave me the Joy Of Cooking cookbook as a gift. Not sure which
edition but it was given to me in 1997. I guess they thought it was a good
gift for me because I didn't have it. I didn't have it because a former
roommate did have it. She never used it and used my Betty Crocker one
instead. The recipes in that edition and only that one were appealing to the
two of us. I think that edition was about 1978-1980.

The people that gave me The Joy Of Cooking wanted me to make dinner for us
using one of the recipes. I tried the baked macaroni and cheese. I found it
disappointing. I also now know that I don't like it baked and I don't like
it with crumbs on top. Neither did anyone else. I can pretty much make
macaroni and cheese with my eyes closed and never used a recipe. I much
prefer my regular way.

On 10 Dec 2018, Pamela wrote
(in article >):

> On 13:49 10 Dec 2018, > wrote in
> :
>
> > On 12/9/2018 5:30 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
> > > On 2018-12-09 2:38 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made
> > > > > them for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold,
> > > > > wintry morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I
> > > > > went online and printed on up. It was a little different from the
> > > > > old on. It called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so
> > > > > it was going to have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast
> > > > > just never really worked much. The batter was much denser than my
> > > > > old recipe. It glooped out slowly and over filled the rings.
> > > > > The never developed the nooks and crannies that are the hallmark of
> > > > > crumpets. They tasted okay but the texture was a flop.
> > > >
> > > > are you using a different brand of flour now? they are all milled
> > > > differently.
> > >
> > > I always use Robin Hood unbleached all purpose. The yeast just
> > > didn't seem to work. It's possible that the milk was too hot and
> > > ruined the yeast. My old recipe called for scalding the milk and then
> > > adding an equal amount of water which then brought the temperature
> > > down to something conducive to yeast working.
> > >
> > > The crumpets were edible, but they sure weren't as good as my earlier
> > > escapades with them. I never counted on advice on them before
> > > because I don't know anyone who makes them.
> > >
> > > I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
> > > increasingly disappointed with the store bought products. That was
> > > when I decided to try making them. They were a major success. Damn,
> > > I wish I had the old recipe.
> > It sounds like you got rid of your old JoC cookbook when you got a
> > later edition. That's a shame. Better luck next time!
> >
> > Jill
>
> Here's a free 1997 edition of JOC, if it's the right one.
>
> http://b-ok.cc/book/3328635/74c933

Thanks for that link. I have downloaded the pdf file, and having a quick
glance through the first few pages of recipes it looks to be an excellent
reference tool.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 19:18:52 +0000, Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
> wrote:

>On 10 Dec 2018, Pamela wrote
>(in article >):
>
>> On 13:49 10 Dec 2018, > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > On 12/9/2018 5:30 PM, Dave Smith wrote:
>> > > On 2018-12-09 2:38 PM, U.S. Janet B. wrote:
>> > > > On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made
>> > > > > them for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold,
>> > > > > wintry morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I
>> > > > > went online and printed on up. It was a little different from the
>> > > > > old on. It called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so
>> > > > > it was going to have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast
>> > > > > just never really worked much. The batter was much denser than my
>> > > > > old recipe. It glooped out slowly and over filled the rings.
>> > > > > The never developed the nooks and crannies that are the hallmark of
>> > > > > crumpets. They tasted okay but the texture was a flop.
>> > > >
>> > > > are you using a different brand of flour now? they are all milled
>> > > > differently.
>> > >
>> > > I always use Robin Hood unbleached all purpose. The yeast just
>> > > didn't seem to work. It's possible that the milk was too hot and
>> > > ruined the yeast. My old recipe called for scalding the milk and then
>> > > adding an equal amount of water which then brought the temperature
>> > > down to something conducive to yeast working.
>> > >
>> > > The crumpets were edible, but they sure weren't as good as my earlier
>> > > escapades with them. I never counted on advice on them before
>> > > because I don't know anyone who makes them.
>> > >
>> > > I remember loving crumpets when I was a kid. Over the years I became
>> > > increasingly disappointed with the store bought products. That was
>> > > when I decided to try making them. They were a major success. Damn,
>> > > I wish I had the old recipe.
>> > It sounds like you got rid of your old JoC cookbook when you got a
>> > later edition. That's a shame. Better luck next time!
>> >
>> > Jill
>>
>> Here's a free 1997 edition of JOC, if it's the right one.
>>
>> http://b-ok.cc/book/3328635/74c933
>
>Thanks for that link. I have downloaded the pdf file, and having a quick
>glance through the first few pages of recipes it looks to be an excellent
>reference tool.

Didja know that crumpets are the fruitiest faggot flapjacks.

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 13:37:43 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
> for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
> morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
> and printed on up. It was a little different from the old on. It
> called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
> have to do.

There's no such thing as "Activated Yeast" sold at stores. Yeast
get activated at home.

-sw

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them for
> a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry morning.
> Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online and printed
> on up. It was a little different from the old on. It called for
> activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to have to do.
> Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked much. The
> batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out slowly and over
> filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and crannies that are the
> hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the texture was a flop.

I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I wasn't sure
if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once at a crumpet place at
Pike Place market. I was a teen then. Seemed to be the same as what I made
at home. I guess crumpets aren't my thing. My friends raved about how great
they were. I remember eating a couple of bites then giving the rest to a
friend. Now they are widely available. I did try one again before I knew of
my issue with eggs. Still wasn't appealing to me.

On 2018-12-09 7:13 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>> for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>> morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>> and printed on up.Â* It was a little different from the old on.Â* It
>> called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>> have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really
>> worked much.Â* The batter was much denser than my old recipe.Â* It
>> glooped out slowly and over filled the rings.Â* The never developed the
>> nooks and crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay
>> but the texture was a flop.
>
> I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I wasn't
> sure if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once at a crumpet
> place at Pike Place market. I was a teen then. Seemed to be the same as
> what I made at home. I guess crumpets aren't my thing. My friends raved
> about how great they were. I remember eating a couple of bites then
> giving the rest to a friend. Now they are widely available. I did try
> one again before I knew of my issue with eggs. Still wasn't appealing to
> me.


Eggs????? WTF do eggs have to do with crumpets????

On Sun, 9 Dec 2018 19:29:27 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-09 7:13 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them
>>> for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry
>>> morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online
>>> and printed on up.* It was a little different from the old on.* It
>>> called for activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to
>>> have to do. Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really
>>> worked much.* The batter was much denser than my old recipe.* It
>>> glooped out slowly and over filled the rings.* The never developed the
>>> nooks and crannies that are the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay
>>> but the texture was a flop.
>>
>> I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I wasn't
>> sure if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once at a crumpet
>> place at Pike Place market. I was a teen then. Seemed to be the same as
>> what I made at home. I guess crumpets aren't my thing. My friends raved
>> about how great they were. I remember eating a couple of bites then
>> giving the rest to a friend. Now they are widely available. I did try
>> one again before I knew of my issue with eggs. Still wasn't appealing to
>> me.
>
>
>Eggs????? WTF do eggs have to do with crumpets????

She must be getting them mixed up with Yorkshire pudding. They're both
British, after all.

Doris

In article >, says...
>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them for
> > a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry morning.
> > Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online and printed
> > on up. It was a little different from the old on. It called for
> > activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to have to do.
> > Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked much. The
> > batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out slowly and over
> > filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and crannies that are the
> > hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the texture was a flop.
>
> I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I wasn't sure
> if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once at a crumpet place at
> Pike Place market.

Somehow I find it hard to imagine "a crumpet place" exists in USA.
Certainly not in UK.


I was a teen then. Seemed to be the same as what I made
> at home. I guess crumpets aren't my thing. My friends raved about how great
> they were. I remember eating a couple of bites then giving the rest to a
> friend. Now they are widely available. I did try one again before I knew of
> my issue with eggs. Still wasn't appealing to me.

There's no egg in crumpets.

Janet UK

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 03:09:14 -0000, Janet > wrote:

>In article >, says...
>>
>> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made them for
>> > a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold, wintry morning.
>> > Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I went online and printed
>> > on up. It was a little different from the old on. It called for
>> > activated yeast. I only had fast acting, so it was going to have to do.
>> > Maybe it was too old, but the yeast just never really worked much. The
>> > batter was much denser than my old recipe. It glooped out slowly and over
>> > filled the rings. The never developed the nooks and crannies that are the
>> > hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the texture was a flop.
>>
>> I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I wasn't sure
>> if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once at a crumpet place at
>> Pike Place market.
>
> Somehow I find it hard to imagine "a crumpet place" exists in USA.
>Certainly not in UK.
>
>
> I was a teen then. Seemed to be the same as what I made
>> at home. I guess crumpets aren't my thing. My friends raved about how great
>> they were. I remember eating a couple of bites then giving the rest to a
>> friend. Now they are widely available. I did try one again before I knew of
>> my issue with eggs. Still wasn't appealing to me.
>
> There's no egg in crumpets.
>
> Janet UK

Julie only responds to posts other than her own to say BTDT, don't
like it.

Janet wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The recent posts on crumpets got me thinking that I had not made
> > > them for a few months. They seemed like a good idea for a cold,
> > > wintry morning. Since my new JoC doesn't have a crumpet recipe I
> > > went online and printed on up. It was a little different from
> > > the old on. It called for activated yeast. I only had fast
> > > acting, so it was going to have to do. Maybe it was too old, but
> > > the yeast just never really worked much. The batter was much
> > > denser than my old recipe. It glooped out slowly and over filled
> > > the rings. The never developed the nooks and crannies that are
> > > the hallmark of crumpets. They tasted okay but the texture was a
> > > flop.
> >
> > I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I
> > wasn't sure if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once
> > at a crumpet place at Pike Place market.
>
> Somehow I find it hard to imagine "a crumpet place" exists in
> USA. Certainly not in UK.
>
>
Nope but I had fun looking them up! Not at all what my mind wanted to
say they were. I was imagining something a bit closer to a croisannt.

Silly me! At least I looked them up. I have a vague recollection of
them being served in Tea House in San Diego in La Mesa. I never got
any there, only that it was a unique thing to the area.

On 2018-12-10 8:11 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> Janet wrote:
>
..>>> the hal
>>> I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I
>>> wasn't sure if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one once
>>> at a crumpet place at Pike Place market.
>>
>> Somehow I find it hard to imagine "a crumpet place" exists in
>> USA. Certainly not in UK.
>>
>>
> Nope but I had fun looking them up! Not at all what my mind wanted to
> say they were. I was imagining something a bit closer to a croisannt.
>
> Silly me! At least I looked them up. I have a vague recollection of
> them being served in Tea House in San Diego in La Mesa. I never got
> any there, only that it was a unique thing to the area.
>




Ah.... I see. When the topic of crumpets appeared she Googled and found
the only crumpet shop around, which happens to be not too far from where
she lives now. She checked out the menu and saw that this unique chop
sells savory crumpets with eggs on top. Hence the egg issue.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 22:19:06 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2018-12-10 8:11 p.m., cshenk wrote:
>>>
>> Nope but I had fun looking them up! Not at all what my mind wanted to
>> say they were. I was imagining something a bit closer to a croisannt.
>>
>> Silly me! At least I looked them up. I have a vague recollection of
>> them being served in Tea House in San Diego in La Mesa. I never got
>> any there, only that it was a unique thing to the area.
>>
>Ah.... I see. When the topic of crumpets appeared she Googled and found
>the only crumpet shop around, which happens to be not too far from where
>she lives now. She checked out the menu and saw that this unique chop
>sells savory crumpets with eggs on top. Hence the egg issue.

I think, from now on, we should call you Petty Smith.

Dave Smith wrote:

> On 2018-12-10 8:11 p.m., cshenk wrote:
> > Janet wrote:
> >
> .>>> the hal
> > > > I made them once as a child. Having never eaten them before, I
> > > > wasn't sure if they came out correctly or not. I did buy one
> > > > once at a crumpet place at Pike Place market.
> > >
> >> Somehow I find it hard to imagine "a crumpet place" exists in
> > > USA. Certainly not in UK.
> > >
> > >
> > Nope but I had fun looking them up! Not at all what my mind wanted
> > to say they were. I was imagining something a bit closer to a
> > croisannt.
> >
> > Silly me! At least I looked them up. I have a vague recollection
> > of them being served in Tea House in San Diego in La Mesa. I
> > never got any there, only that it was a unique thing to the area.
> >
>
>
>
>
> Ah.... I see. When the topic of crumpets appeared she Googled and
> found the only crumpet shop around, which happens to be not too far
> from where she lives now. She checked out the menu and saw that this
> unique chop sells savory crumpets with eggs on top. Hence the egg
> issue.

Not sure what she did but I had to look them up to be sure of what they
were. Not common to see in the USA but yes, have seen them. I've
never made or eaten one though.