On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:33:16 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:29:37 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
> >> On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 13:16:09 -0400, wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myth...isleading.html
> >>>>Currently USDA regulations require that meats cured with celery powder
> >>>>to be called €œuncured€� to distinguish them from conventionally cured
> >>>>products. Packages of meats cured with celery powder often say €œNo
> >>>>nitrates or nitrites added,€� but also contain a statement €œother than
> >>>>those which naturally occur in celery powder.€� Many in the food
> >>>>industry believe a more accurate way to describe the products would be
> >>>>to call them €œcured,€� but still must comply with the regulations as
> >>>>written, which require them to be called €œuncured.€�
> >>>
> >>> What is celery powder... my understanding is that it refers to
> >>> powdered *celery seed* (not the celery stalk), which is added to fine
> >>> table salt to make celery salt.
> >>
> >> Celery powder, in this case, is fermented, dried, and refined celery
> >> juice. Nearly all the flavor has been removed so as not to flavor the
> >> finished product. It is then mixed with salt in a proportions enough
> >> so that the resulting powder is half the strength of Prague Powder #2.
> >> PP#2 is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate used in
> >> traditional meat curing.
> >>
> >> Calling it "celery powder" is a far cry from what normal cooks would
> >> consider celery powder. This is a highly industrial product that
> >> sounds more "natural" so they can sell it to unscrupulous
> >> manufacturers who then market it to gullible people. It's naturally
> >> derived sodium nitrate rather than synthetically manufactured, but the
> >> molecular structure is of course exactly the same and has the same
> >> effect in the body.
> >>
> >> But the effects of this mis-named "celery powder" are even worse
> >> because manufacturers are not required to also add ascorbic acid
> >> and/or erythorbates to prevent the formation of the cancer-causing
> >> nitrosamines. There is also no limit to the amount of nitrates you
> >> may add to products VIA the non-standardized celery powder, while
> >> there is a USDA-mandated limit with carefully measured synthetic
> >> nitrates.
> >>
> >> For these reasons, using celery powder is actually more dangerous than
> >> using synthetic nitrates. Don't let the manufacturers fool you with
> >> this well-documented marketing gimmick (and courtesy of the USDA).
> >
> > brought to you by the American Meat Institute.....no bias here.
>
> Hormel owns Applegate Farms. And Hormel is the second-largest sponsor
> of the NORTH American Meat Institute. The NAMI treasurer the CEO of
> Hormel foods. ALL the "natural" meat processors are members of the
> NAMI.
>
> Oops! <slap>
>
> If you want to counter any of the facts I've presented then stop being
> a whiney little bitch and contribute something constructive. In the
> meantime, have some more of that nitrate-free bacon.
>
> -sw

I don't buy nitrate free bacon. I don't care if the bacon that I like has nitrates in it or not. I am just pointing out that most of the articles pro and con about foods that are bad or good for you all come from and are paid for by organizations with an agenda.

Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:33:16 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:
>>
>> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:29:37 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 13:16:09 -0400, wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myth...isleading.html
>> >>>>Currently USDA regulations require that meats cured with celery powder
>> >>>>to be called “uncured” to distinguish them from conventionally cured
>> >>>>products. Packages of meats cured with celery powder often say “No
>> >>>>nitrates or nitrites added,” but also contain a statement “other than
>> >>>>those which naturally occur in celery powder.” Many in the food
>> >>>>industry believe a more accurate way to describe the products would be
>> >>>>to call them “cured,” but still must comply with the regulations as
>> >>>>written, which require them to be called “uncured.”
>> >>>
>> >>> What is celery powder... my understanding is that it refers to
>> >>> powdered *celery seed* (not the celery stalk), which is added to fine
>> >>> table salt to make celery salt.
>> >>
>> >> Celery powder, in this case, is fermented, dried, and refined celery
>> >> juice. Nearly all the flavor has been removed so as not to flavor the
>> >> finished product. It is then mixed with salt in a proportions enough
>> >> so that the resulting powder is half the strength of Prague Powder #2.
>> >> PP#2 is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate used in
>> >> traditional meat curing.
>> >>
>> >> Calling it "celery powder" is a far cry from what normal cooks would
>> >> consider celery powder. This is a highly industrial product that
>> >> sounds more "natural" so they can sell it to unscrupulous
>> >> manufacturers who then market it to gullible people. It's naturally
>> >> derived sodium nitrate rather than synthetically manufactured, but the
>> >> molecular structure is of course exactly the same and has the same
>> >> effect in the body.
>> >>
>> >> But the effects of this mis-named "celery powder" are even worse
>> >> because manufacturers are not required to also add ascorbic acid
>> >> and/or erythorbates to prevent the formation of the cancer-causing
>> >> nitrosamines. There is also no limit to the amount of nitrates you
>> >> may add to products VIA the non-standardized celery powder, while
>> >> there is a USDA-mandated limit with carefully measured synthetic
>> >> nitrates.
>> >>
>> >> For these reasons, using celery powder is actually more dangerous than
>> >> using synthetic nitrates. Don't let the manufacturers fool you with
>> >> this well-documented marketing gimmick (and courtesy of the USDA).
>> >
>> > brought to you by the American Meat Institute.....no bias here.
>>
>> Hormel owns Applegate Farms. And Hormel is the second-largest sponsor
>> of the NORTH American Meat Institute. The NAMI treasurer the CEO of
>> Hormel foods. ALL the "natural" meat processors are members of the
>> NAMI.
>>
>> Oops! <slap>
>>
>> If you want to counter any of the facts I've presented then stop being
>> a whiney little bitch and contribute something constructive. In the
>> meantime, have some more of that nitrate-free bacon.
>>
>> -sw
>
>I don't buy nitrate free bacon. I don't care if the bacon that I like has nitrates in it or not. I am just pointing out that most of the articles pro and con about foods that are bad or good for you all come from and are paid for by organizations with an agenda.
>
>Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.

You always say that when a study doesn't confirm your existing
beliefs.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> If you want to counter any of the facts I've presented then stop being
>> a whiney little bitch and contribute something constructive. In the
>> meantime, have some more of that nitrate-free bacon.
>
> I don't buy nitrate free bacon.

Nobody does. Because it doesn't exist (unless it's raw pork
belly(*)).

> I don't care if the bacon that I
> like has nitrates in it or not. I am just pointing out that most
> of the articles pro and con about foods that are bad or good for
> you all come from and are paid for by organizations with an agenda.
>
> Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it
> come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to
> ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.

These are not "studies". These are facts that any chemist or food
scientist knows without anyone having to pay them. These aren't those
kook bait sites and articles that you read and post about.

You're so used to reading bullshit that you can't even recognize
factual science when you see it anymore.

EOF

(*) Smithfield used to make a dry-cured with salt only bacon but it's
been discontinued. It's possible to make smoked bacon without nitrite
if you use enough salt, but it tastes like ... salt.

-sw

On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 3:41:03 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> > wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
> >> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:33:16 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:29:37 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 13:16:09 -0400, wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myth...isleading.html
> >> >>>>Currently USDA regulations require that meats cured with celery powder
> >> >>>>to be called €œuncured€� to distinguish them from conventionally cured
> >> >>>>products. Packages of meats cured with celery powder often say €œNo
> >> >>>>nitrates or nitrites added,€� but also contain a statement €œother than
> >> >>>>those which naturally occur in celery powder.€� Many in the food
> >> >>>>industry believe a more accurate way to describe the products would be
> >> >>>>to call them €œcured,€� but still must comply with the regulations as
> >> >>>>written, which require them to be called €œuncured.€�
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What is celery powder... my understanding is that it refers to
> >> >>> powdered *celery seed* (not the celery stalk), which is added to fine
> >> >>> table salt to make celery salt.
> >> >>
> >> >> Celery powder, in this case, is fermented, dried, and refined celery
> >> >> juice. Nearly all the flavor has been removed so as not to flavor the
> >> >> finished product. It is then mixed with salt in a proportions enough
> >> >> so that the resulting powder is half the strength of Prague Powder #2.
> >> >> PP#2 is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate used in
> >> >> traditional meat curing.
> >> >>
> >> >> Calling it "celery powder" is a far cry from what normal cooks would
> >> >> consider celery powder. This is a highly industrial product that
> >> >> sounds more "natural" so they can sell it to unscrupulous
> >> >> manufacturers who then market it to gullible people. It's naturally
> >> >> derived sodium nitrate rather than synthetically manufactured, but the
> >> >> molecular structure is of course exactly the same and has the same
> >> >> effect in the body.
> >> >>
> >> >> But the effects of this mis-named "celery powder" are even worse
> >> >> because manufacturers are not required to also add ascorbic acid
> >> >> and/or erythorbates to prevent the formation of the cancer-causing
> >> >> nitrosamines. There is also no limit to the amount of nitrates you
> >> >> may add to products VIA the non-standardized celery powder, while
> >> >> there is a USDA-mandated limit with carefully measured synthetic
> >> >> nitrates.
> >> >>
> >> >> For these reasons, using celery powder is actually more dangerous than
> >> >> using synthetic nitrates. Don't let the manufacturers fool you with
> >> >> this well-documented marketing gimmick (and courtesy of the USDA).
> >> >
> >> > brought to you by the American Meat Institute.....no bias here.
> >>
> >> Hormel owns Applegate Farms. And Hormel is the second-largest sponsor
> >> of the NORTH American Meat Institute. The NAMI treasurer the CEO of
> >> Hormel foods. ALL the "natural" meat processors are members of the
> >> NAMI.
> >>
> >> Oops! <slap>
> >>
> >> If you want to counter any of the facts I've presented then stop being
> >> a whiney little bitch and contribute something constructive. In the
> >> meantime, have some more of that nitrate-free bacon.
> >>
> >> -sw
> >
> >I don't buy nitrate free bacon. I don't care if the bacon that I like has nitrates in it or not. I am just pointing out that most of the articles pro and con about foods that are bad or good for you all come from and are paid for by organizations with an agenda.
> >
> >Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.
>
> You always say that when a study doesn't confirm your existing
> beliefs.

I always ask people to look closely at ANY so called study as to where it comes from, where the funding comes from, what group put forth the study for what reason. It never hurts to educate yourself and be aware of any agenda pro or con in these studies. We are fed so much mis-information and dis-information these days it never hurts to investigate further.

On Wed, 5 Apr 2017 11:25:07 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 3:41:03 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >I don't buy nitrate free bacon. I don't care if the bacon that I like has nitrates in it or not. I am just pointing out that most of the articles pro and con about foods that are bad or good for you all come from and are paid for by organizations with an agenda.
>> >
>> >Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.
>>
>> You always say that when a study doesn't confirm your existing
>> beliefs.
>
> I always ask people to look closely at ANY so called study as to where it comes from, where the funding comes from, what group put forth the study for what reason. It never hurts to educate yourself and be aware of any agenda pro or con in these studies. We are fed so much mis-information and dis-information these days it never hurts to investigate further.

True, apparently companies can pay a doctor to write a positive piece
for them, whether they believe it or not.

On 2017-04-05 2:25 PM, ImStillMags wrote:

> I always ask people to look closely at ANY so called study as to
> where it comes from, where the funding comes from, what group put
> forth the study for what reason. It never hurts to educate yourself
> and be aware of any agenda pro or con in these studies. We are fed
> so much mis-information and dis-information these days it never hurts
> to investigate further.

You might want to read White Coat, Black Hat: Adventures in the Dark
Side of Medicine. It addresses a number of issues concerning medical
research. There are a lot of research studies done my pharmaceutical
companies. Don't let the name of a prominent physician fool you. The
reports are usually written by science writers and the companies pay the
doctors to take credit as the authors.



>

On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 2:25:13 PM UTC-4, ImStillMags wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 3:41:03 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
> > On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 11:21:50 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
> > >> On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 10:33:16 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 10:29:37 AM UTC-7, Sqwertz wrote:
> > >> >> On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 13:16:09 -0400, wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>http://www.meatmythcrushers.com/myth...isleading.html
> > >> >>>>Currently USDA regulations require that meats cured with celery powder
> > >> >>>>to be called €œuncured€� to distinguish them from conventionally cured
> > >> >>>>products. Packages of meats cured with celery powder often say €œNo
> > >> >>>>nitrates or nitrites added,€� but also contain a statement €œother than
> > >> >>>>those which naturally occur in celery powder.€� Many in the food
> > >> >>>>industry believe a more accurate way to describe the products would be
> > >> >>>>to call them €œcured,€� but still must comply with the regulations as
> > >> >>>>written, which require them to be called €œuncured.€�
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> What is celery powder... my understanding is that it refers to
> > >> >>> powdered *celery seed* (not the celery stalk), which is added to fine
> > >> >>> table salt to make celery salt.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Celery powder, in this case, is fermented, dried, and refined celery
> > >> >> juice. Nearly all the flavor has been removed so as not to flavor the
> > >> >> finished product. It is then mixed with salt in a proportions enough
> > >> >> so that the resulting powder is half the strength of Prague Powder #2.
> > >> >> PP#2 is a mixture of salt, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate used in
> > >> >> traditional meat curing.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Calling it "celery powder" is a far cry from what normal cooks would
> > >> >> consider celery powder. This is a highly industrial product that
> > >> >> sounds more "natural" so they can sell it to unscrupulous
> > >> >> manufacturers who then market it to gullible people. It's naturally
> > >> >> derived sodium nitrate rather than synthetically manufactured, but the
> > >> >> molecular structure is of course exactly the same and has the same
> > >> >> effect in the body.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> But the effects of this mis-named "celery powder" are even worse
> > >> >> because manufacturers are not required to also add ascorbic acid
> > >> >> and/or erythorbates to prevent the formation of the cancer-causing
> > >> >> nitrosamines. There is also no limit to the amount of nitrates you
> > >> >> may add to products VIA the non-standardized celery powder, while
> > >> >> there is a USDA-mandated limit with carefully measured synthetic
> > >> >> nitrates.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> For these reasons, using celery powder is actually more dangerous than
> > >> >> using synthetic nitrates. Don't let the manufacturers fool you with
> > >> >> this well-documented marketing gimmick (and courtesy of the USDA)..
> > >> >
> > >> > brought to you by the American Meat Institute.....no bias here.
> > >>
> > >> Hormel owns Applegate Farms. And Hormel is the second-largest sponsor
> > >> of the NORTH American Meat Institute. The NAMI treasurer the CEO of
> > >> Hormel foods. ALL the "natural" meat processors are members of the
> > >> NAMI.
> > >>
> > >> Oops! <slap>
> > >>
> > >> If you want to counter any of the facts I've presented then stop being
> > >> a whiney little bitch and contribute something constructive. In the
> > >> meantime, have some more of that nitrate-free bacon.
> > >>
> > >> -sw
> > >
> > >I don't buy nitrate free bacon. I don't care if the bacon that I like has nitrates in it or not. I am just pointing out that most of the articles pro and con about foods that are bad or good for you all come from and are paid for by organizations with an agenda.
> > >
> > >Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.
> >
> > You always say that when a study doesn't confirm your existing
> > beliefs.
>
> I always ask people to look closely at ANY so called study as to where it comes from, where the funding comes from, what group put forth the study for what reason. It never hurts to educate yourself and be aware of any agenda pro or con in these studies. We are fed so much mis-information and dis-information these days it never hurts to investigate further.

Well, yeah. That's why I posted the information from Cook's Illustrated,
where they sent a bunch of cured and "uncured" bacon to a lab.

Cindy Hamilton

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 03:32:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 2:25:13 PM UTC-4, ImStillMags wrote:
>> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 3:41:03 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
>> > On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
>> > > wrote:

>> > >Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.
>> >
>> > You always say that when a study doesn't confirm your existing
>> > beliefs.
>>
>> I always ask people to look closely at ANY so called study as to where it comes from, where the funding comes from, what group put forth the study for what reason. It never hurts to educate yourself and be aware of any agenda pro or con in these studies. We are fed so much mis-information and dis-information these days it never hurts to investigate further.
>
>Well, yeah. That's why I posted the information from Cook's Illustrated,
>where they sent a bunch of cured and "uncured" bacon to a lab.

Aha! And who paid for the postage?

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 6:48:38 AM UTC-4, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 03:32:57 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 2:25:13 PM UTC-4, ImStillMags wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, April 4, 2017 at 3:41:03 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote:
> >> > On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:36:37 -0700 (PDT), ImStillMags
> >> > > wrote:
>
> >> > >Follow the money, who pays for the study, what non profit does it come from, what company paid for the research.....all questions to ask whenever investigating if claims are real or not.
> >> >
> >> > You always say that when a study doesn't confirm your existing
> >> > beliefs.
> >>
> >> I always ask people to look closely at ANY so called study as to where it comes from, where the funding comes from, what group put forth the study for what reason. It never hurts to educate yourself and be aware of any agenda pro or con in these studies. We are fed so much mis-information and dis-information these days it never hurts to investigate further.
> >
> >Well, yeah. That's why I posted the information from Cook's Illustrated,
> >where they sent a bunch of cured and "uncured" bacon to a lab.
>
> Aha! And who paid for the postage?

In a sense, I did. Cook's Illustrated doesn't accept
advertising, so everything comes out of subscriptions,
as far as I know. Their affiliated television show
is on PBS, so they might get some money from the
federal government. (But the current government is
trying to defund that, so if they are getting grants from
Uncle Sugar, they might not be getting them for much longer.)

Cindy Hamilton