On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
wrote:

> On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> >
> >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> >>
> >> It is very tasty...
> >
> > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> >
>
> You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
>
> I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> observation is sound.
>
It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
za'atar.

> It is a spice I learned to use from a Persian deli owner.
>
I think the mix I have is of Jordanian origin. The shop where I buy
za'atar has several to choose from and I always have to ask which one
it is that I want.

> In fact that recipe largely came from him. I also use finely grated
> sweet onion, forgot to mention that.

Always a good addition!

--

sf

On 4/10/2016 4:49 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
>>>> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
>>>>
>>>> It is very tasty...
>>>
>>> Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
>>> considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
>>> might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
>>>
>>
>> You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
>>
>> I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
>> observation is sound.
>>
> It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> za'atar.

I love the stuff.

>> It is a spice I learned to use from a Persian deli owner.
>>
> I think the mix I have is of Jordanian origin. The shop where I buy
> za'atar has several to choose from and I always have to ask which one
> it is that I want.

I must get down to Penzeys!

>> In fact that recipe largely came from him. I also use finely grated
>> sweet onion, forgot to mention that.
>
> Always a good addition!

It is, and with yogurt, cardamon and saffron, another great kebab marinade!

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:36:03 -0600, carnal asada >
wrote:

> On 4/10/2016 4:49 PM, sf wrote:
>
> >> It is a spice I learned to use from a Persian deli owner.
> >>
> > I think the mix I have is of Jordanian origin. The shop where I buy
> > za'atar has several to choose from and I always have to ask which one
> > it is that I want.
>
> I must get down to Penzeys!
>
Find yourself an international store. There's a tiny one up here, but
parking is hard. It's easier to go to one in San Jose, when I'm down
visiting family there.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/internationa...azaar-san-jose

One of these days, I'll make an effort to go to the one up here
because it's next to a middle eastern restaurant I want to try.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/old-jerusale...-san-francisco

> >> In fact that recipe largely came from him. I also use finely grated
> >> sweet onion, forgot to mention that.
> >
> > Always a good addition!
>
> It is, and with yogurt, cardamon and saffron, another great kebab marinade!

Do you powder the saffron first to combine or what?

--

sf

On 4/10/2016 10:16 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 17:36:03 -0600, carnal asada >
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2016 4:49 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>>>> It is a spice I learned to use from a Persian deli owner.
>>>>
>>> I think the mix I have is of Jordanian origin. The shop where I buy
>>> za'atar has several to choose from and I always have to ask which one
>>> it is that I want.
>>
>> I must get down to Penzeys!
>>
> Find yourself an international store. There's a tiny one up here, but
> parking is hard. It's easier to go to one in San Jose, when I'm down
> visiting family there.
> http://www.yelp.com/biz/internationa...azaar-san-jose

I'll have to, Penzeys does not stock it at all.

> One of these days, I'll make an effort to go to the one up here
> because it's next to a middle eastern restaurant I want to try.
> http://www.yelp.com/biz/old-jerusale...-san-francisco

There's a lead picture there of a hummus and shwarma plate - oh man does
that look good!

>>>> In fact that recipe largely came from him. I also use finely grated
>>>> sweet onion, forgot to mention that.
>>>
>>> Always a good addition!
>>
>> It is, and with yogurt, cardamon and saffron, another great kebab marinade!
>
> Do you powder the saffron first to combine or what?
>
I have a fondness for seeing the long strands so I do not, but I suspect
most normal cooks would...

On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> wrote:
>
> > On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> > >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> > >>
> > >> It is very tasty...
> > >
> > > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> > >
> >
> > You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
> >
> > I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> > observation is sound.
> >
> It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> za'atar.

It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
an equal amount of za'atar.

I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> > > >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> > > >>
> > > >> It is very tasty...
> > > >
> > > > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > > > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > > > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
> > >
> > > I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> > > observation is sound.
> > >
> > It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> > za'atar.
>
> It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
> Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
> an equal amount of za'atar.
>
> I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.
>
I'm not against sumac, but find it too jarring in za'atar.

--

sf

On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 6:13:41 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > > On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> > > > >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> It is very tasty...
> > > > >
> > > > > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > > > > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > > > > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
> > > >
> > > > I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> > > > observation is sound.
> > > >
> > > It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> > > za'atar.
> >
> > It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
> > Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
> > an equal amount of za'atar.
> >
> > I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.
> >
> I'm not against sumac, but find it too jarring in za'atar.

Maybe I'm buying the wrong za'atar. I'll see about making my own,
since I have all of the ingredients.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:16:38 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

> On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 6:13:41 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> > > > > >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> It is very tasty...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > > > > > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > > > > > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
> > > > >
> > > > > I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> > > > > observation is sound.
> > > > >
> > > > It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> > > > za'atar.
> > >
> > > It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
> > > Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
> > > an equal amount of za'atar.
> > >
> > > I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.
> > >
> > I'm not against sumac, but find it too jarring in za'atar.
>
> Maybe I'm buying the wrong za'atar. I'll see about making my own,
> since I have all of the ingredients.
>

I doubt it. The way I understand it, za'atar is made with wild thyme,
I suppose you could leave the thyme out but it would be missing a
major flavor component (IMO). I guess that would be when you'd use
marjoram or oregano. I can visualize the flavor of sumac with
oregano. Possibly it would go with marjoram too, but I don't like it
with thyme.

--

sf

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 11:07:53 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:16:38 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 6:13:41 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > > On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > > > > > > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> > > > > > >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> It is very tasty...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > > > > > > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > > > > > > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> > > > > > observation is sound.
> > > > > >
> > > > > It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> > > > > za'atar.
> > > >
> > > > It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
> > > > Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
> > > > an equal amount of za'atar.
> > > >
> > > > I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.
> > > >
> > > I'm not against sumac, but find it too jarring in za'atar.
> >
> > Maybe I'm buying the wrong za'atar. I'll see about making my own,
> > since I have all of the ingredients.
> >
>
> I doubt it. The way I understand it, za'atar is made with wild thyme,
> I suppose you could leave the thyme out but it would be missing a
> major flavor component (IMO). I guess that would be when you'd use
> marjoram or oregano. I can visualize the flavor of sumac with
> oregano. Possibly it would go with marjoram too, but I don't like it
> with thyme.

We've got loads of Middle Eastern markets around here. There's one
about 100 yards away from my current location. I'd be amazed
if I couldn't find wild thyme.

Anyway, I was contemplating making a mix that had much less thyme
and much more sumac than what I've been buying. As a start, I
could just add sumac to what I've got.

Cindy Hamilton

On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 11:07:53 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:16:38 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 6:13:41 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
> > > > > > > >> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> It is very tasty...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
> > > > > > > > considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
> > > > > > > > might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
> > > > > > > observation is sound.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
> > > > > > za'atar.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
> > > > > Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
> > > > > an equal amount of za'atar.
> > > > >
> > > > > I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.
> > > > >
> > > > I'm not against sumac, but find it too jarring in za'atar.
> > >
> > > Maybe I'm buying the wrong za'atar. I'll see about making my own,
> > > since I have all of the ingredients.
> > >
> >
> > I doubt it. The way I understand it, za'atar is made with wild thyme,
> > I suppose you could leave the thyme out but it would be missing a
> > major flavor component (IMO). I guess that would be when you'd use
> > marjoram or oregano. I can visualize the flavor of sumac with
> > oregano. Possibly it would go with marjoram too, but I don't like it
> > with thyme.
>
> We've got loads of Middle Eastern markets around here. There's one
> about 100 yards away from my current location. I'd be amazed
> if I couldn't find wild thyme.
>
> Anyway, I was contemplating making a mix that had much less thyme
> and much more sumac than what I've been buying. As a start, I
> could just add sumac to what I've got.
>

What you make would be your own personal family mix. Very much like
garam masala and baharat family recipes.

--

sf

On 4/12/2016 11:43 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2016 at 11:07:53 AM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2016 03:16:38 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, April 11, 2016 at 6:13:41 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 03:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, April 10, 2016 at 6:49:37 PM UTC-4, sf wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 10:12:02 -0600, carnal asada >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/9/2016 11:33 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 16:52:02 -0600, carnal asada > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do an olive oil, lemon juice, lemon zest, and crushed garlic marinade
>>>>>>>>> with ground sumac to shake over just before grilling.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is very tasty...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds delicious, but sumac is just more of a lemony flavor - have you
>>>>>>>> considered substituting za'atar? Depending on which mix you buy, you
>>>>>>>> might have sumac or you might not. I prefer the one without sumac.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have mentioned that before and I still need to score some.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find the sumac is tarter than lemon, though your commonality
>>>>>>> observation is sound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's definitely a sharper flavor that I find it off-putting in
>>>>>> za'atar.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the thyme that I find off-putting in za'atar. I've got a
>>>>> Middle Eastern (ish) recipe that calls for thyme; I just put in
>>>>> an equal amount of za'atar.
>>>>>
>>>>> I love sumac sprinkled on red lentil soup.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm not against sumac, but find it too jarring in za'atar.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm buying the wrong za'atar. I'll see about making my own,
>>> since I have all of the ingredients.
>>>
>>
>> I doubt it. The way I understand it, za'atar is made with wild thyme,
>> I suppose you could leave the thyme out but it would be missing a
>> major flavor component (IMO). I guess that would be when you'd use
>> marjoram or oregano. I can visualize the flavor of sumac with
>> oregano. Possibly it would go with marjoram too, but I don't like it
>> with thyme.
>
> We've got loads of Middle Eastern markets around here. There's one
> about 100 yards away from my current location. I'd be amazed
> if I couldn't find wild thyme.
>
> Anyway, I was contemplating making a mix that had much less thyme
> and much more sumac than what I've been buying. As a start, I
> could just add sumac to what I've got.
>
> Cindy Hamilton
>
I've been making my own za'atar for a while now. 2 Tbsp toasted sesame
seeds, 1 Tbsp each sumac, dried oregano and dried marjoram, lightly
crushed together. Proportion of spices is to taste. I've never used
thyme in mine and had not seen it in any of the recipes I looked at when
I decided to make my own. It fits the general flavor profile but I
don't think it is necessary.

Of the many uses I have found for it, popcorn was a surprise hit.