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Default Dave: shepherd's pie


FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe

--
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>
> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>

My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
"Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not." in Reply To.
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 13:48:56 -0500, James Silverton
> wrote:

> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
> >
> > FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
> > beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
> > Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
> >

> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".


I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
doesn't contain lamb.

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie


"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>

> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names but
> I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>
>


Heresy!


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Default Dave: shepherd's pie


"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 13:48:56 -0500, James Silverton
> > wrote:
>
>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>> >
>> > FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>> > beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>> > Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>> >

>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".

>
> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
> doesn't contain lamb.
>


you are just SO wrong!




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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 11:54:55 -0800, "Pico Rico" >
wrote:

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 13:48:56 -0500, James Silverton
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
> >> >
> >> > FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
> >> > beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
> >> > Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
> >> >
> >> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
> >> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
> >> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
> >> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
> >> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".

> >
> > I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
> > it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
> > doesn't contain lamb.
> >

>
> you are just SO wrong!
>

Always!

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:

>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>

>
> you are just SO wrong!
>


My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
she made it with beef.

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie


"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>
>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>

>>
>> you are just SO wrong!
>>

>
> My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
> she made it with beef.


I make mine with octopus. I also substitute rice for the potatoes. Best
Shepherd's Pie ever!


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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:55:51 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>
>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>

>>
>> you are just SO wrong!
>>

>
>My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>she made it with beef.


Obviously granny couldn't differenciate sheep from cows. SHEPherd has
to do with herding sheep. However I suppose one can use any meat,
even ham with spuds, and call it oinkherd's pie too.
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie



"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:55:51 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>
>>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you are just SO wrong!
>>>

>>
>>My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>>she made it with beef.

>
> That's why they kicked her out.



LOLOL and have you noticed. One person is now taken as the expert))) I
shall now choose ONE person in the US as the expert on anything I
choose)))

How dumb can you get)
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie



"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>
>>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you are just SO wrong!
>>>

>>
>> My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>> she made it with beef.

>
> I make mine with octopus. I also substitute rice for the potatoes. Best
> Shepherd's Pie ever!


<g>


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"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:55:51 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
>>On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>
>>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you are just SO wrong!
>>>

>>
>>My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>>she made it with beef.

>
> Obviously granny couldn't differenciate sheep from cows. SHEPherd has
> to do with herding sheep. However I suppose one can use any meat,
> even ham with spuds, and call it oinkherd's pie too.


Correct, but too many folk are too thick to understand that

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie



"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 22:14:14 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:55:51 -0500, Dave Smith
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>>>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>>>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> you are just SO wrong!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>>>>she made it with beef.
>>>
>>> That's why they kicked her out.

>>
>>
>>LOLOL and have you noticed. One person is now taken as the expert))) I
>>shall now choose ONE person in the US as the expert on anything I
>>choose)))
>>
>>How dumb can you get)

>
> I guess it's a case of anecdotal evidence


I suppose one person in a population of 60 million must be right ...

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:55:51 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>
>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>

>>
>> you are just SO wrong!
>>

>
>My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>she made it with beef.


In that case it wasn't Shepards pie.
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 13:42:53 -0800, "Pico Rico" >
wrote:

>
>"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
>> On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>
>>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you are just SO wrong!
>>>

>>
>> My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>> she made it with beef.

>
>I make mine with octopus. I also substitute rice for the potatoes. Best
>Shepherd's Pie ever!


And my seafood bisque uses tinned spam and tripe instead of seafood.


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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 11:35:41 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>
> --
> A kitchen without a cook is just a room


Please GOD, not another session of postings Shepherds Pie or shepherd's pie or sheepherders pie.
Enough is enough.
======
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie


"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 11:35:41 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>
>> --
>> A kitchen without a cook is just a room

>
> Please GOD, not another session of postings Shepherds Pie or shepherd's
> pie or sheepherders pie.
> Enough is enough.
> ======


It is sort of like "choose your poison" in this group.


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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On 2015-02-03 16:42, Pico Rico wrote:

>> My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>> she made it with beef.

>
> I make mine with octopus. I also substitute rice for the potatoes. Best
> Shepherd's Pie ever!
>
>


Good for you. Wash it down with a mint martini.

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 15:10:35 -0800 (PST), Roy >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 11:35:41 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>
>> --
>> A kitchen without a cook is just a room

>
>Please GOD, not another session of postings Shepherds Pie or shepherd's pie or sheepherders pie.
>Enough is enough.


What's wrong with ewe now?
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie



"Roy" > wrote in message
...
> On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 11:35:41 AM UTC-7, sf wrote:
>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>
>> --
>> A kitchen without a cook is just a room

>
> Please GOD, not another session of postings Shepherds Pie or shepherd's
> pie or sheepherders pie.
> Enough is enough.


LOL

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On 2015-02-03 17:24, Bruce wrote:

>>>> On 2015-02-03 2:54 PM, Pico Rico wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I am tired of certain posters insisting we're wrong - especially when
>>>>>> it turns out that people over there call shepherd's pie even if it
>>>>>> doesn't contain lamb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> you are just SO wrong!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My grandmother was from there and she made Shepherds pie frequently, and
>>>> she made it with beef.
>>>
>>> That's why they kicked her out.

>>
>>
>> LOLOL and have you noticed. One person is now taken as the expert))) I
>> shall now choose ONE person in the US as the expert on anything I
>> choose)))
>>
>> How dumb can you get)

>
> I guess it's a case of anecdotal evidence
>


Check out the first line on the Wikipedia page on Cottage Pie AKA
Shepherds Pie.




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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On 2015-02-03 18:10, Roy wrote:

>> A kitchen without a cook is just a room

>
> Please GOD, not another session of postings Shepherds Pie or shepherd's pie or sheepherders pie.
> Enough is enough.


I don't understand why people who don't cook it and didn't grow up with
it care what it is called.


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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

True shepherd's pie must have beef kidney
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 17:59:36 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>True shepherd's pie must have beef kidney


LOL.
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"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 3 Feb 2015 17:59:36 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
>>True shepherd's pie must have beef kidney

>
> Sheep have cow kidneys?


<g>

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I think the Brits put beef kidney in most everything, especially pudding.
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 1:35:41 PM UTC-5, sf wrote:
> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>
> --



Dear Lord,
Please spare us another shepherd's pie thread.
Amen
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Tue, 03 Feb 2015 18:24:25 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 2015-02-03 18:10, Roy wrote:
>
>>> A kitchen without a cook is just a room

>>
>> Please GOD, not another session of postings Shepherds Pie or shepherd's pie or sheepherders pie.
>> Enough is enough.

>
>I don't understand why people who don't cook it and didn't grow up with
>it care what it is called.


Well, I did grow up with it and I still cook it the traditional way,
that is, made with the left over roast lamb from the night before.

That is shepherd's pie despite what others may make or call theirs.

JB

>

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

James Silverton wrote:
> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>
>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>

> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>

Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.
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On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 01:41:39 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:

>James Silverton wrote:
>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>>

>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>>

>Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.





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"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> James Silverton wrote:
>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>>

>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>>

> Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.


Nahhh .. just remember, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. I
don't care what people call stuff actually so long as they don't give me
grief as to what I call mine

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"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 22:37:11 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 01:41:39 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>>>>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>>>>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>>>>
>>>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
>>>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>>>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
>>>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
>>>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>>>>
>>>Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.

>>
>>

>
> So basically the British and Australians have stayed with the original
> meaning of shepherd's pie (mutton), whereas Americans and Canadians,
> who are less inclined to eat mutton, also apply the term to the same
> dish made with beef, chicken and armadillo.


Well the ants and termites could be added protein ..


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On 2015-02-05, Janet > wrote:

> Yep; and mayonnaise made from egg yolks and olive oil, cream made from
> milk, omelettes made with whole eggs, macaroni cheese made from cheese
> and macaroni. We're addicted to real recipes.


Sorry, but you do not have the corner on preparing real food.

I jes finished eating a blueberry pie I made w/ all scratch
ingredients and fresh blueberries. Harrumph!

nb
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"Bruce" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2015 16:03:16 -0000, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Bruce" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 22:37:11 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 01:41:39 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>>>>>>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>>>>>>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in
>>>>>> names
>>>>>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>>>>>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is
>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>>>>>>
>>>>>Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> So basically the British and Australians have stayed with the original
>>> meaning of shepherd's pie (mutton), whereas Americans and Canadians,
>>> who are less inclined to eat mutton, also apply the term to the same
>>> dish made with beef, chicken and armadillo.

>>
>>Well the ants and termites could be added protein ..

>
> Yes, the secret ingredient


Yummmmie ;-)

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

On Thu, 5 Feb 2015 16:03:16 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

> Well the ants and termites could be added protein ..


They're reserved for dessert.

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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 22:37:11 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 01:41:39 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>>>>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>>>>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>>>>
>>>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
>>>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>>>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
>>>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
>>>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>>>>
>>> Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.

>>
>>

>
> So basically the British and Australians have stayed with the original
> meaning of shepherd's pie (mutton), whereas Americans and Canadians,
> who are less inclined to eat mutton, also apply the term to the same
> dish made with beef, chicken and armadillo.
>

You want me to open my mouth? (I am a USian.)
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Default Dave: shepherd's pie

Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
>> James Silverton wrote:
>>> On 2/3/2015 1:35 PM, sf wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FYI: A poster in one of my FB cooking groups just mentioned "corned
>>>> beef shepherd's pie". Not cottage pie, shepherds pie. Lives in
>>>> Yorkshire, England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skelmanthorpe
>>>>
>>> My apologies to those who feel a need for universal precision in names
>>> but I have never used the term "cottage pie" and any one-pot meat and
>>> vegetable stew topped with a mashed potato crust browned in the oven is
>>> "Shepherd's Pie" to me. The meat can be chicken; corned beef is unusual
>>> but I'm sure I've had it made with British-style canned "bully beef".
>>>

>> Ok. I am going to keep my mouth shut.

>
> Nahhh .. just remember, a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
> I don't care what people call stuff actually so long as they don't give
> me grief as to what I call mine
>

[mouth remains shut]
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