It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic and
one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing your
freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much longer
if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It was quite
handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly

On 01/08/2013 05:18, Polly Esther wrote:
> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
> and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
> your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
> much longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna
> pan. It was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else
> failed. Polly
>
If you want to prep a hurricane first you have to catch it! ;-)

Better ice blocks are made in those cheapie plastic shoe boxes. The milk jugs, I found, don't hold up well and don't pack well in a freezer. I DO save the sturdier jugs which vinegar comes in. ( I buy it by the gallon) for storing drinking water.

ALSO, get all your valuables gathered in one spot - papers, jewelry, collections, etc. in case you have to grab and leave. Better yet, much of this should already be in a safe dep vault. It's well worth the cost.

I've evacuated a number of times, so I have a three level plan:
a. things to do if a storm is even remotely endangering.
b. next stuff to do if it goes into a watch phase.
c. warning phase - stuff to do then.

It's better to think this thru NOW when you're calm - if you wait til the warning phase, panic overtakes your thinking.

Kalmia wrote:
>
>Better ice blocks are made in those cheapie plastic shoe boxes.
>The milk jugs, I found, don't hold up well and don't pack well in
>a freezer. I DO save the sturdier jugs which vinegar comes in.
>( I buy it by the gallon) for storing drinking water.

Plastic milk jugs hold up fine and they are rectangular so don't waste
freezer space. I see no point in storing emergency drinking water in
used containers, tap water won't remain potable for more than a couple
three weeks... instead simply buy bottled water in gallon jugs, and
even that has a shelf life of a year or two... bottled water is not
sterile unless you buy sterile water, and even sterile water has a
shelf life only slightly longer than ordinary bottled water. Distilled
water one buys at the stupidmarket is not sterile either, it's only
mineral free, but may contain higher bacteria levels than ordinary
bottled water, so don't buy distilled water for drinking unless it's
medical (USP) grade... USP water has a shelf life as well. If you
store tap water for drinking be sure to boil it first. For emergency
drinking I always have a couple three cases of beer, and it gets
replaced periodically, before it's "best used by" date.

"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
> and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
> your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
> longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
> was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>
Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
Graham

On 8/1/2013 1:50 PM, graham wrote:
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
>> and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>> your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
>> longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>> was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>
> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
> Graham
>
>
It certainly is if you are in an area prone to outages frequent or long.
Small generators can be from $500 to $1000 and larger whole house
installations can top 5X that.

Personally, I have none. I've been a homeowner for 47 years and only
once was I out for two days after Hurricane Gloria in 1985. Every other
time has been minutes to about 4 hours. I've not been able to justify
the cost of having one sit in the garage not being used for years at a
time. I have town water so I can still drink and flush.

I strongly recommend a few LCD lanterns though. They are safe, very
bright, last many hours on a set of batteries. I also have two lights
that go on automatically with a power failure. They can be used as a
flashlight also.

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 11:50:31 -0600, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"Polly Esther" > wrote in message
...
>> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
>> and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>> your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
>> longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>> was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>
>Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?

Even small generators are expensive, and so is fuel, they drink
heavily, and you need to store fuel. And generators are very noisy,
in many locales they must be turned off all night to comply with noise
abatement laws. A lot less problems and cost keeping a note on the
fridge with info for the nearest ice house that sells dry ice... the
warmer your climate the more ice houses there are. And where I live
the only lengthy power outages occured in winter, then my garage
becomes my ice house. Ther earen't many outages here, adn they are
usually under an hour, the longest in ten years was a three day outage
when it was 15ºF out, food was no problem, keeping pipes from freezing
was a major concern. Fortunately the power returned in the nick of
time, my house temperature had dropped to 40ºF. And that's when it
was a no brainer to have a ventless propane heater installed... a
30,000 BTU unit on a basement wall heats my entire house during the
coldest weather, in fact I use it to save firing up my boiler for more
than two months a year, I can turn my boiler off early in spring and
turn it on late in fall... the fuel savings the first year more than
paid for the heater. A ventless heater is 99% efficient, no heat goes
up a chimney, it uses no chimney, and needs no electric... they work
so well I had another 10,000 BTU unit installed in my second well
house. My propane company installed both for free, even the smaller
tank (50 gallons) was free, only charged for the units and naturally
the propane in the tank. A ventless heater is not very expensive,
like $200 for a basic unit, everyone who lives where pipes can freeze
needs one... there are also fancy schmancy ventless gas heaters that
look like old fashioned cast iron wood stoves that let you watch the
pretty dancing flames, still not very costly. I gave a lot of thought
to having a generator, after weighing all the pros, cons, and
alternatives I decided against it... I can live without TV and PC for
a short time.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...ro%2Caps%2C238

"Ed Pawlowski" <>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>> Graham
>>
>>
> It certainly is if you are in an area prone to outages frequent or long.
> Small generators can be from $500 to $1000 and larger whole house
> installations can top 5X that.
>
> Personally, I have none. I've been a homeowner for 47 years and only once
> was I out for two days after Hurricane Gloria in 1985. Every other time
> has been minutes to about 4 hours. I've not been able to justify the cost
> of having one sit in the garage not being used for years at a time. I
> have town water so I can still drink and flush.
>
> I strongly recommend a few LCD lanterns though. They are safe, very
> bright, last many hours on a set of batteries. I also have two lights
> that go on automatically with a power failure. They can be used as a
> flashlight also.

We have the generator but there are some Murphy's Laws that apply to
hurricanes. The power goes out when it is either dangerous or inconvenient
to get it going such as between midnight and 3 am. Polly

In article >,
says...
>
> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic and
> one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing your
> freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much longer
> if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It was quite
> handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly

And food - I was watching a prepper video earlier. Stuff like Spam,
Corned Beef Hash, Canned Crab, Tuna and sardines.

I added dried beans and water purification tablets. Or bleach - it's
about 5 drops to the gallon, preferably of the unscented variety.

Then there's ammo for the gun(s), make sure the radios are charged (I've
got two, a Yasesu VX-7R and a KST V6). And I've got a little hand crank
AC generator to charge things like radios and phones.

In article >, says...
>
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
> >
> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
> Graham

Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.

"T" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
>>
>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>> > Atlantic
>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>> > much
>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>> >
>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>> Graham
>
> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>
Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep the
fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It would
certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
Graham

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 20:49:11 -0400, T >
wrote:

>In article >, says...
>>
>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>> >
>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>> Graham
>
>Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.

Unless it's a sizeable city natural gas won't be available. I heat my
house with a propane fired furnace. From speaking with my propane
supplier I learned that a full house propane generator can empty a
500 gallon tank in about a week. Unless you can't live without TV
you really don't need a generator... even computers no longer need to
be plugged in, and it's easy to charge batteries with a crank radio.

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:58:01 -0600, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"T" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>> > Atlantic
>>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>> > much
>>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>> >
>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>> Graham
>>
>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>
>Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
>small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep the
>fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It would
>certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
>Graham

A small generator will use about 1 gallon of gas an hour... it costs
less to lose some food... and much of what folks keep in their fridge
really doesn't need to be refrigerated, and butter, eggs, cheese, etc.
can last a lot longer than the typical power outage. And if you don't
open your freezer food will remain frozen for 48+ hours. You won't
die from eating canned foods for a couple three days. When Hurrican e
Gloria hit Long Island everyone in my area was out of power fro over a
week, I was out 11 days, we all survived quite well without
generators... most of us had outdoor grills so everyone pooled their
food and we had a giant neighborhood cookout/cook-in, even the pets
helped eat all the food, no food I know of spoiled.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:58:01 -0600, "graham" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"T" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article >, says...
>>>>
>>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>>> > Atlantic
>>>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start
>>>> > packing
>>>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>>> > much
>>>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan.
>>>> > It
>>>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed.
>>>> > Polly
>>>> >
>>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>>
>>Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
>>small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep
>>the
>>fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It
>>would
>>certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
>>Graham
>
> A small generator will use about 1 gallon of gas an hour... it costs
> less to lose some food... and much of what folks keep in their fridge
> really doesn't need to be refrigerated, and butter, eggs, cheese, etc.
> can last a lot longer than the typical power outage. And if you don't
> open your freezer food will remain frozen for 48+ hours. You won't
> die from eating canned foods for a couple three days. When Hurrican e
> Gloria hit Long Island everyone in my area was out of power fro over a
> week, I was out 11 days, we all survived quite well without
> generators... most of us had outdoor grills so everyone pooled their
> food and we had a giant neighborhood cookout/cook-in, even the pets
> helped eat all the food, no food I know of spoiled.

I suppose people survived quite well in the old days without a fridge or
freezer. I was in my teens before my parents could afford to buy a small
one.
Graham

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 19:39:12 -0600, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:58:01 -0600, "graham" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"T" > wrote in message
...
>>>> In article >, says...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>>>> > Atlantic
>>>>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start
>>>>> > packing
>>>>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>>>> > much
>>>>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan.
>>>>> > It
>>>>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed.
>>>>> > Polly
>>>>> >
>>>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>>>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>>>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>>>
>>>Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
>>>small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep
>>>the
>>>fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It
>>>would
>>>certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
>>>Graham
>>
>> A small generator will use about 1 gallon of gas an hour... it costs
>> less to lose some food... and much of what folks keep in their fridge
>> really doesn't need to be refrigerated, and butter, eggs, cheese, etc.
>> can last a lot longer than the typical power outage. And if you don't
>> open your freezer food will remain frozen for 48+ hours. You won't
>> die from eating canned foods for a couple three days. When Hurrican e
>> Gloria hit Long Island everyone in my area was out of power fro over a
>> week, I was out 11 days, we all survived quite well without
>> generators... most of us had outdoor grills so everyone pooled their
>> food and we had a giant neighborhood cookout/cook-in, even the pets
>> helped eat all the food, no food I know of spoiled.
>
>I suppose people survived quite well in the old days without a fridge or
>freezer. I was in my teens before my parents could afford to buy a small
>one.
>Graham

I grew up with an ice-a-box. Our first fridge was a 1948 Kelvinator,
its freezer held two ice cube trays (watery cubes). During NYC
winters most folk's freezer was their fire escape. Back then people
shopped every day... frozen foods at the supermarket were a novelty...
in 1950 supermarkets were a novelty.

On 8/1/2013 6:47 PM, T wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic and
>> one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing your
>> freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much longer
>> if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It was quite
>> handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>
> And food - I was watching a prepper video earlier. Stuff like Spam,
> Corned Beef Hash, Canned Crab, Tuna and sardines.
>
> I added dried beans and water purification tablets. Or bleach - it's
> about 5 drops to the gallon, preferably of the unscented variety.
>
> Then there's ammo for the gun(s), make sure the radios are charged (I've
> got two, a Yasesu VX-7R and a KST V6). And I've got a little hand crank
> AC generator to charge things like radios and phones.
>
>



Do you use the guns for hunting or are you a survivalist? Would you use
them in case of hurricane for offense or defense? (Have you ever
been through a hurricane?)

gloria p

"gloria p" <>
> Do you use the guns for hunting or are you a survivalist? Would you use
> them in case of hurricane for offense or defense? (Have you ever
> been through a hurricane?)
>
Hoping to respond with a gentle great-grandmother answer - but YES.
Following a hurricane are the thugs. We have survived many hurricanes; the
first one I remember was 1947 and we survived Katrina. Part of the deal is
scavengers, buzzards and looters. It just IS. Would I shoot a looter? Any
evil creep who would prey on hurricane victims and get past 8,500 alligators
(more or less) surely deserves halting. Polly

Brooklyn1 > wrote:
> Kalmia wrote:
>>
>> Better ice blocks are made in those cheapie plastic shoe boxes.
>> The milk jugs, I found, don't hold up well and don't pack well in
>> a freezer. I DO save the sturdier jugs which vinegar comes in.
>> ( I buy it by the gallon) for storing drinking water.
>
> Plastic milk jugs hold up fine and they are rectangular so don't waste
> freezer space. I see no point in storing emergency drinking water in
> used containers, tap water won't remain potable for more than a couple
> three weeks... instead simply buy bottled water in gallon jugs, and
> even that has a shelf life of a year or two... bottled water is not
> sterile unless you buy sterile water, and even sterile water has a
> shelf life only slightly longer than ordinary bottled water. Distilled
> water one buys at the stupidmarket is not sterile either, it's only
> mineral free, but may contain higher bacteria levels than ordinary
> bottled water, so don't buy distilled water for drinking unless it's
> medical (USP) grade... USP water has a shelf life as well. If you
> store tap water for drinking be sure to boil it first. For emergency
> drinking I always have a couple three cases of beer, and it gets
> replaced periodically, before it's "best used by" date.

When I fill up containers, I add the bleach drops. I don't know how how
long it will last, but longer than nothing added.

Greg

Brooklyn1 > wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:58:01 -0600, "graham" > wrote:
>
>>
>> "T" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >, says...
>>>>
>>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>>>> Atlantic
>>>>> and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>>>>> your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>>>> much
>>>>> longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>>>>> was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>>
>> Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
>> small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep the
>> fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It would
>> certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
>> Graham
>
> A small generator will use about 1 gallon of gas an hour... it costs
> less to lose some food... and much of what folks keep in their fridge
> really doesn't need to be refrigerated, and butter, eggs, cheese, etc.
> can last a lot longer than the typical power outage. And if you don't
> open your freezer food will remain frozen for 48+ hours. You won't
> die from eating canned foods for a couple three days. When Hurrican e
> Gloria hit Long Island everyone in my area was out of power fro over a
> week, I was out 11 days, we all survived quite well without
> generators... most of us had outdoor grills so everyone pooled their
> food and we had a giant neighborhood cookout/cook-in, even the pets
> helped eat all the food, no food I know of spoiled.

I think my 5k generator at half power will run 9.5 hours. Refrigerator only
draws less than 1/10 th power. That's roughly $20 gas at 1/2 power.
I can run my whole house furnace on a battery inverter for about 3 hours
continuously on full charge, then I have to wait for sun to charge. It's
not going to full charge in one day with my panels. I found my furnace fan
draws only 300 watts, and I have a sine inverter. I could run a
refrigerator if it did not go on defrost. The furnace fan has no start up
draw. It just slowly ramps up current, since it's a switching motor. I've
measured all this.

Greg

On 8/1/2013 1:50 PM, graham wrote:

> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the Atlantic
>> and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>> your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
>> longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>> was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>
> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
> Graham
>
>
I'm not in a hurricane zone, but we get plenty of those storms that turn
tropical or even classified depression when they get here, and they can
pack a punch. I have a portable generator. Reminder to me I need to go
test it this weekend.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 8/1/2013 2:29 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Personally, I have none. I've been a homeowner for 47 years and only
> once was I out for two days after Hurricane Gloria in 1985. Every other
> time has been minutes to about 4 hours. I've not been able to justify
> the cost of having one sit in the garage not being used for years at a
> time. I have town water so I can still drink and flush.
>
> I strongly recommend a few LCD lanterns though. They are safe, very
> bright, last many hours on a set of batteries. I also have two lights
> that go on automatically with a power failure. They can be used as a
> flashlight also.

You're very lucky in all that time! I've been through at least two
outages over 4 days in just the last 10 years, and I vowed never again.
I bought a set of those lights that you plug in and they go on when
the power cuts out -- on your suggestion a while ago. They've been nice
for the short power outages lately. Those power outages weren't long
enough to put the generator into use, but having the light was nice.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 8/2/2013 1:06 AM, gregz wrote:

> I think my 5k generator at half power will run 9.5 hours. Refrigerator only
> draws less than 1/10 th power. That's roughly $20 gas at 1/2 power.
> I can run my whole house furnace on a battery inverter for about 3 hours
> continuously on full charge, then I have to wait for sun to charge. It's
> not going to full charge in one day with my panels. I found my furnace fan
> draws only 300 watts, and I have a sine inverter. I could run a
> refrigerator if it did not go on defrost. The furnace fan has no start up
> draw. It just slowly ramps up current, since it's a switching motor. I've
> measured all this.

I just use my generator to keep my fridge and downstairs freezer going.
Oh, and my hair dryer if the power is still out when I have to go to
work. I will power my laptop if the battery runs out, but with no
internet there's no point really. If I'm bored I'll play computer games
if I can't find something else to do. I also like to keep some lights
going because I can't stand just candlelight or flashlights for very long.

--
CAPSLOCK€“Preventing Login Since 1980.

"graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "T" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>> > Atlantic
>>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>> > much
>>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan.
>>> > It
>>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>> >
>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>> Graham
>>
>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>
> Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
> small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep
> the fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It
> would certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of
> others.

We have a gennie even though we don't have hurricanes. DH writes articles
and books on prep and survivalism so we are well prepared for most things
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

"graham" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:58:01 -0600, "graham" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"T" > wrote in message
...
>>>> In article >, says...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>>>> > Atlantic
>>>>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start
>>>>> > packing
>>>>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>>>> > much
>>>>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan.
>>>>> > It
>>>>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed.
>>>>> > Polly
>>>>> >
>>>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>>>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>>>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>>>
>>>Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks,
>>>a
>>>small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep
>>>the
>>>fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It
>>>would
>>>certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
>>>Graham
>>
>> A small generator will use about 1 gallon of gas an hour... it costs
>> less to lose some food... and much of what folks keep in their fridge
>> really doesn't need to be refrigerated, and butter, eggs, cheese, etc.
>> can last a lot longer than the typical power outage. And if you don't
>> open your freezer food will remain frozen for 48+ hours. You won't
>> die from eating canned foods for a couple three days. When Hurrican e
>> Gloria hit Long Island everyone in my area was out of power fro over a
>> week, I was out 11 days, we all survived quite well without
>> generators... most of us had outdoor grills so everyone pooled their
>> food and we had a giant neighborhood cookout/cook-in, even the pets
>> helped eat all the food, no food I know of spoiled.
>
> I suppose people survived quite well in the old days without a fridge or
> freezer. I was in my teens before my parents could afford to buy a small
> one.

Same with us.
--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:12:25 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:



>
>I just use my generator to keep my fridge and downstairs freezer going.
>Oh, and my hair dryer if the power is still out when I have to go to
>work. I will power my laptop if the battery runs out, but with no
>internet there's no point really. If I'm bored I'll play computer games
>if I can't find something else to do. I also like to keep some lights
>going because I can't stand just candlelight or flashlights for very long.

Why do you lose internet? Does the cable go out? I have DSL and it
will stay on as long as my battery backup has power. I don't think
I've ever lost phone service.

On Thu, 1 Aug 2013 18:58:01 -0600, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"T" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>> > Atlantic
>>> > and one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing
>>> > your freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp
>>> > much
>>> > longer if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It
>>> > was quite handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>> >
>>> Wouldn't it be worthwhile buying a small generator?
>>> Graham
>>
>> Well - the generator assumes fuel supplies will last. I've said when we
>> do purchase a property I'm putting in a 10kW natural gas fired
>> generator. That way you only have to worry as far as National Grid.
>>
>Assuming you are out of power for a few days, or even a couple of weeks, a
>small generator, used every few hours should be more than enough to keep the
>fridge and freezer ok, which is what most seem to be worried about. It would
>certainly save chasing around for dry ice like scores or 100s of others.
>Graham
>

That works. The last hurricane we went through in costal Virginia, DH
hooked up our big generator to the house and we loaned our small one
to two neighbors. Each one would run it for 12 hours to keep their
freezers working. Neither one lost any food. When we moved we sold
it to one of them.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On 8/2/2013 5:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> Why do you lose internet? Does the cable go out? I have DSL and it
> will stay on as long as my battery backup has power. I don't think
> I've ever lost phone service.
>
I have verizon fios and it always goes out when the power goes out.
Internet, tv and phone.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

On 8/2/2013 6:45 AM, The Cook wrote:

> That works. The last hurricane we went through in costal Virginia, DH
> hooked up our big generator to the house and we loaned our small one
> to two neighbors. Each one would run it for 12 hours to keep their
> freezers working. Neither one lost any food. When we moved we sold
> it to one of them.

When we had an extended power outage from Isabel, my brother loaned me
his generator and my neighbor and I alternated keeping it filled with
gas and shared it. It supplied enough power for both of our needs.
That's actually the storm that got me to decide to buy my own.

--
CAPSLOCK–Preventing Login Since 1980.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:12:25 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I just use my generator to keep my fridge and downstairs freezer going.
> >Oh, and my hair dryer if the power is still out when I have to go to
> >work. I will power my laptop if the battery runs out, but with no
> >internet there's no point really. If I'm bored I'll play computer games
> >if I can't find something else to do. I also like to keep some lights
> >going because I can't stand just candlelight or flashlights for very long.
>
> Why do you lose internet? Does the cable go out? I have DSL and it
> will stay on as long as my battery backup has power. I don't think
> I've ever lost phone service.

Only two types of (consumer) Internet connection will normally stay up
in an area with substantial power outages - wireless (cell or MMDS) and
DSL if you are direct to a CO.

Cable, FIOS, and DSL if you connect to an RT are all likely to fail
within 8 hours of the outage, usually less since they all rely on
battery backup somewhere away from a central office where the batteries
aren't particularly well maintained and the odds of a generator being
hauled out to power them aren't very good when there are widespread
outages.

On 8/2/2013 7:22 AM, Cheryl wrote:
> On 8/2/2013 5:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Why do you lose internet? Does the cable go out? I have DSL and it
>> will stay on as long as my battery backup has power. I don't think
>> I've ever lost phone service.
>>
> I have verizon fios and it always goes out when the power goes out.
> Internet, tv and phone.

I don't have Verizon phone service, but I do have fios for
internet and cable. They both go down when the power goes out.
However, there is a battery in the box in the garage that is the
backup for phone service. I know because mine's dead and it gives
a loud beep every so often. Can't hear it unless you are out there
with the door open.

Just wondering if you should have phone service if your battery is
working.

nancy

On 8/2/2013 5:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:12:25 -0400, Cheryl >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>> I just use my generator to keep my fridge and downstairs freezer going.
>> Oh, and my hair dryer if the power is still out when I have to go to
>> work. I will power my laptop if the battery runs out, but with no
>> internet there's no point really. If I'm bored I'll play computer games
>> if I can't find something else to do. I also like to keep some lights
>> going because I can't stand just candlelight or flashlights for very long.
>
> Why do you lose internet? Does the cable go out? I have DSL and it
> will stay on as long as my battery backup has power. I don't think
> I've ever lost phone service.
>
Ah, but there is always an exception. I had DSL when I lived in TN.
Massive storms knocked out the power in a tri-state area (some places
for weeks). It also zapped the phone lines in some areas, mine
included. I didn't have a cordless phone, just plug-into-the-wall
phones. DSL didn't work, nothing worked. You've been lucky.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
>
> On 8/2/2013 5:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:12:25 -0400, Cheryl >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I just use my generator to keep my fridge and downstairs freezer going.
> >> Oh, and my hair dryer if the power is still out when I have to go to
> >> work. I will power my laptop if the battery runs out, but with no
> >> internet there's no point really. If I'm bored I'll play computer games
> >> if I can't find something else to do. I also like to keep some lights
> >> going because I can't stand just candlelight or flashlights for very long.
> >
> > Why do you lose internet? Does the cable go out? I have DSL and it
> > will stay on as long as my battery backup has power. I don't think
> > I've ever lost phone service.
> >
> Ah, but there is always an exception. I had DSL when I lived in TN.
> Massive storms knocked out the power in a tri-state area (some places
> for weeks). It also zapped the phone lines in some areas, mine
> included. I didn't have a cordless phone, just plug-into-the-wall
> phones. DSL didn't work, nothing worked. You've been lucky.
>
> Jill

In the old days, phone service was ultra reliable because everyone was
individually wired directly back to a Central Office (CO) building that
was staffed, had backup generators, etc. That was the big fat telephone
cables on the poles, hundreds of individual copper pairs all going back
to the nearest CO.

Today due to cost and capacity issues, many areas, particularly those
with new residential developments are not wired back to a CO, and
instead connect to a nearby Remote Terminal (RT) which is essentially a
mini CO on a pad (you'll see a collection of several large tan cabinets
on a concrete pad) that has copper connections out to the adjacent
homes, and a fiber optic connection back to the nearest CO.

The RTs have backup batteries which are good for ~8 hours if they are
well maintained, and they have a power inlet connection (round
protrusion about 3" dia and 8" long angled downwards) for a generator.
There are no generators at the RT locations, one has to be towed in by
the Telco and connected in the event of an extended power outage. If it
is a widespread outage the Telco may not have enough generators to go
around and thus only RTs with VIPs connected will be prioritized.

Cell sites and MMDS towers (wireless Internet service) have a limited
number of sites and normally have permanently installed backup
generators so those sites will normally remain operational during a
power outage. Onsite fuel is usually good for a few days, after which
those sites will also fail unless they are refueled, and in all but the
most severe storms they usually do manage to get them refueled.

Seems obvious to me, but many, many people were caught with
their car tanks low on gas after Sandy. I was glad I had two
cars full so I was good for the 10 days but a lot of people
were stuck at home.

When all the electricity is out, the gas stations are out, too.
Fill 'er up if you know a storm is coming.

nancy

On 8/2/2013 10:16 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> Seems obvious to me, but many, many people were caught with
> their car tanks low on gas after Sandy. I was glad I had two
> cars full so I was good for the 10 days but a lot of people
> were stuck at home.
>
> When all the electricity is out, the gas stations are out, too.
> Fill 'er up if you know a storm is coming.
>
> nancy

Excellent advice! Especially if you might have to evacuate.

Where I live it's all two lane roads for quite a ways (despite being Hwy
21, it's not what I'd call much of a "highway" out here in the sticks.)
Traffic could and would back up for miles (and hours) in the event of
an evacuation. Make sure your gas tank is filled. You probably won't
be able to fill it again any time soon.

Jill

On 8/2/2013 10:16 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> Seems obvious to me, but many, many people were caught with
> their car tanks low on gas after Sandy. I was glad I had two
> cars full so I was good for the 10 days but a lot of people
> were stuck at home.
>
> When all the electricity is out, the gas stations are out, too.
> Fill 'er up if you know a storm is coming.
>
> nancy

Some states are trying to force gas stations to install generators so
they can keep operating. While it sounds good, it is expensive and puts
the individual stations at a competitive disadvantage unless they can
charge much more after a storm.

On 8/1/2013 10:44 PM, gloria p wrote:
> On 8/1/2013 6:47 PM, T wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> It's time again to prepare for hurricanes with one storm in the
>>> Atlantic and
>>> one in the Pacific. More or less. Tis the season to start packing your
>>> freezer - with water in milk jugs etc. A freezer will hold temp much
>>> longer
>>> if it is full. Last year, I froze water in the lasagna pan. It was
>>> quite
>>> handy to hold an ice chest cool when all else failed. Polly
>>
>> And food - I was watching a prepper video earlier. Stuff like Spam,
>> Corned Beef Hash, Canned Crab, Tuna and sardines.
>>
>> I added dried beans and water purification tablets. Or bleach - it's
>> about 5 drops to the gallon, preferably of the unscented variety.
>>
>> Then there's ammo for the gun(s), make sure the radios are charged (I've
>> got two, a Yasesu VX-7R and a KST V6). And I've got a little hand crank
>> AC generator to charge things like radios and phones.
>>
>
> Do you use the guns for hunting or are you a survivalist? Would you use
> them in case of hurricane for offense or defense? (Have you ever
> been through a hurricane?)
>
> gloria p

One word: looters. I don't own a gun. But I would get righteously
****ed off if some lowlife scum tried to take advantage of a horrific
situation to steal from me. It's the old "rape & pillage" mentality.
And it *does* happen.

Jill

On 8/2/2013 11:13 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/2/2013 10:16 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
>> Seems obvious to me, but many, many people were caught with
>> their car tanks low on gas after Sandy. I was glad I had two
>> cars full so I was good for the 10 days but a lot of people
>> were stuck at home.
>>
>> When all the electricity is out, the gas stations are out, too.
>> Fill 'er up if you know a storm is coming.

> Some states are trying to force gas stations to install generators so
> they can keep operating. While it sounds good, it is expensive and puts
> the individual stations at a competitive disadvantage unless they can
> charge much more after a storm.

That's very interesting, I hadn't heard anything about that.
I wonder what kind of generator they would need to operate just
the pumps, meaning how big would it have to be. I wouldn't
oppose state aid to install these generators. The station owners
are already under a lot of financial pressure, I don't know if it
should all fall on them when it's all of us who depended on them.

Anyway, interesting idea.

nancy

On Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:30:58 PM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> A small generator will use about 1 gallon of gas an hour... it costs
> less to lose some food... and much of what folks keep in their fridge
> really doesn't need to be refrigerated, and butter, eggs, cheese, etc.
> can last a lot longer than the typical power outage. And if you don't
> open your freezer food will remain frozen for 48+ hours. You won't
> die from eating canned foods for a couple three days. When Hurrican e
> Gloria hit Long Island everyone in my area was out of power fro over a
> week, I was out 11 days, we all survived quite well without
> generators... most of us had outdoor grills so everyone pooled their
> food and we had a giant neighborhood cookout/cook-in, even the pets
> helped eat all the food, no food I know of spoiled.

For me it's not the cost of losing the food in the freezer but the time
invested. I make all my own stocks, reduce them and freeze them. It takes a
whole day for each, making about six months supply of beef, chicken and fish
stock. This doesn't include the pre frozen home made meals etc.

http://www.richardfisher.com

On 02/08/2013 11:13 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Some states are trying to force gas stations to install generators so
> they can keep operating. While it sounds good, it is expensive and puts
> the individual stations at a competitive disadvantage unless they can
> charge much more after a storm.


Don't worry. They will use any excuse to bump up the price of gas. We
were on our to our vacation when Katrina was approaching and gas jumped
5 cents a litre in anticipation of a supply problem.... about 1000 miles
south of us and in another country. We were at camp for 5 days, no
electricity, no newspapers. When we left for home we were shocked to see
it had jumped another 30 cents per litre. The price dropped a lot more
slowly than it had gone up.

There was a major power outage here a few years ago when the grid
failed. Our power at home was only out for a few hours, but everywhere
else around it was out for about 4 days. That meant no gasoline, no
diesel, no propane. Even people who had propane BBQs for cooking would
have been out of luck if their tanks were empty because you need
electricity to pump propane.

In times of emergency there may be thousands or even hundreds of
thousands of vehicles evacuating an area and some of them are going to
need fuel.

On 8/2/2013 11:25 AM, Nancy Young wrote:
> On 8/2/2013 11:13 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

>> Some states are trying to force gas stations to install generators so
>> they can keep operating. While it sounds good, it is expensive and puts
>> the individual stations at a competitive disadvantage unless they can
>> charge much more after a storm.
>
> That's very interesting, I hadn't heard anything about that.
> I wonder what kind of generator they would need to operate just
> the pumps, meaning how big would it have to be.

It's all coming back to me now. Like a bad flashback. The gas
stations in my town did have power, for whatever reason my little
village was about the first place back up.

However, they had no gas to sell. The place where the gas comes
from, that area was also without electricity. They needed
generators first.

nancy