I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
greased loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about
increasing baking time, temperature or both.

I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So

1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)

1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)

1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time

4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder

1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)

3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum

1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)

1-1/2 cups buttermilk

and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the very
end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more bread-like
and less cake-like texture.

Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
pan, and bake.

Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F and
14 minutes.

Results? Well, it was tasty but it clearly wasn't done so, after taking
a slice out of the middle, I put the two halves back into the pan and
baked it for another 6 minutes, so 20 minutes total, and it _still_
wasn't done enough.

I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
increase the baking time, or both?

It's almost all gone - we had chili cheese dogs for dinner, and my
oldest son decided this made a fine bread onto which to pile chili. I
figure that my first quick bread experiment was obviously good enough to
eat, and that makes me happy.

Thanks.

-S-

On Mar 6, 3:34*pm, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
> I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
> greased loaf pan. *There is a question at the end from me about
> increasing baking time, temperature or both.
>
> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. *So
>
> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
>
> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
>
> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
>
> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
>
> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
>
> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
>
> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
>
> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
>
> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the very
> end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more bread-like
> and less cake-like texture.
>
> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
> pan, and bake.
>
> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F and
> 14 minutes.
>
> Results? *Well, it was tasty but it clearly wasn't done so, after taking
> a slice out of the middle, I put the two halves back into the pan and
> baked it for another 6 minutes, so 20 minutes total, and it _still_
> wasn't done enough.
>
> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
> increase the baking time, or both?
>
> It's almost all gone - we had chili cheese dogs for dinner, and my
> oldest son decided this made a fine bread onto which to pile chili. *I
> figure that my first quick bread experiment was obviously good enough to
> eat, and that makes me happy.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -S-

Put it in the broiler...that outta do it.

"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a greased
>loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about increasing baking
>time, temperature or both.
>
> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So
>
> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
>
> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
>
> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
>
> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
>
> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
>
> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
>
> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
>
> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
>
> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the very
> end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more bread-like and
> less cake-like texture.
>
> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the pan,
> and bake.
>
> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F and
> 14 minutes.
>
> Results? Well, it was tasty but it clearly wasn't done so, after taking a
> slice out of the middle, I put the two halves back into the pan and baked
> it for another 6 minutes, so 20 minutes total, and it _still_ wasn't done
> enough.
>
> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
> increase the baking time, or both?
>
> It's almost all gone - we had chili cheese dogs for dinner, and my oldest
> son decided this made a fine bread onto which to pile chili. I figure
> that my first quick bread experiment was obviously good enough to eat, and
> that makes me happy.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -S-
>

Steve Freides wrote:
> I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
> greased loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about
> increasing baking time, temperature or both.
>
> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So
>
> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
>
> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
>
> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
>
> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
>
> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
>
> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
>
> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
>
> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
>
> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the very
> end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more bread-like
> and less cake-like texture.
>
> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
> pan, and bake.
>
> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F
> and 14 minutes.
>
> Results? Well, it was tasty but it clearly wasn't done so, after
> taking a slice out of the middle, I put the two halves back into the
> pan and baked it for another 6 minutes, so 20 minutes total, and it
> _still_ wasn't done enough.
>
> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
> increase the baking time, or both?
>
> It's almost all gone - we had chili cheese dogs for dinner, and my
> oldest son decided this made a fine bread onto which to pile chili. I
> figure that my first quick bread experiment was obviously good enough
> to eat, and that makes me happy.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -S-

This is by far the best GF recipe we have found. But it does contain sugar.
I'm sure you could sub in a mix of nut flour with this. Not so sure how
well a sugar sub would work. And I used flax and water instead of the eggs.
But the end result was very much like the real thing.

http://www.celiac.com/articles/812/1...ree/Page1.html

This next one is also great and makes a very small loaf. Would work as a
burger bun but you'd have to make one for each person. My daughter and I
just split it to keep the carb counts lower but it is sooo easy to make! I
think it might do well with a sub of flours. Excuse the typos. I merely
copied it from the celiac newsgroup some years ago.

"Hi All
It's been quite a while since iI posted but I just had to post a very
simple delicous bread recipe I have developed. Like my mother used to
say "necessity is the mother of invention". We travel a lot for Ken's
work these days and I was forever running out of bread. Then I
developed an allergy to yeast and eggs and that blew all my GF recipes
out of the water for me so I began to experiment with a baking powder
recipe called "lazy man's bread." I found most rice breads have a
tendency to rise beautifully and then drop just before they are done.
I decided to try my own version of this recipe in the microwave
reasoning that since the bread always drops when almost cooked the
microwave might fix this and it worked really well. The recipe I
developed works really well in the corningware plain open stock bowls.
A large soup bowl (not the ceral bowls that come in the sets) makes a
small loaf and two rice bowls can be used instead for buns. I use the
rice flours from the Asian isle in the supermarket. My brand is Ivory
brand and since it is imported from Thailand it is not likely to be
cross sontaminated with wheat flour. The secret to the nice texture is
the sweet rice flour AKA glutenous or sweet rice flour.
Here is my recipe:

Microwave Rice Bread
1/2 cup rice flour
1 heaping teaspoon glutenous rice flour (also called sticky rice flour
and yes it glutten is free even though the name implies
otherwise)
1/4 to 1/2 tsp salt (according to taste)
1 tbsp baking powder
1/2 cup soda water ot carbonated spring water

If I am baking this in the bigger bowl I just put dry ingredients in
the bowl and mix them then I mix in the carbonated water and put it in
the mocrowave immediately for 3 minutes and in a total of 5 minutes
or less I have a soft delicious loaf of bread. This is best eaten
fresh but it is so simple I don't mind baking one whenever I am hungry
for bread. It also makes a delicious hamburger bun it you bake it in
two rice bowls instead.

I have also addapted this recipe to a strawberry shortcake by adding a
bit of sugar (about 1 tbsp) and vanilla. It can also take a bit of
margarine added to it to make it richer. I just go a bit heavy on the
flour or a bit light on the water.

If I have to stay in a hotel I just put the dry ingredients for one
recipe in a ziploc bag and when I get there all I have to do is put it
in my bowl and add 1/2 cup of carbonated water. this is so great since
most hotels have a microwave. This also works with plain water but
since rice flour is hard to make rise using carbonated water makes it
lighter.

Just hink this is a great one for kids who hate crusts since it is
crust free. Hope you all enjoy the fresh bread as much as I and my
other celiac friends have. Betty
"

Chemo wrote:
> On Mar 6, 3:34 pm, "Steve Freides" > wrote:
>> I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
>> greased loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about
>> increasing baking time, temperature or both.
>>
>> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
>> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So
>>
>> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
>>
>> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
>>
>> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
>>
>> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
>>
>> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
>>
>> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
>>
>> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
>>
>> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
>>
>> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the
>> very end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more
>> bread-like and less cake-like texture.
>>
>> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
>> pan, and bake.
>>
>> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F
>> and 14 minutes.
>>
>> Results? Well, it was tasty but it clearly wasn't done so, after
>> taking a slice out of the middle, I put the two halves back into the
>> pan and baked it for another 6 minutes, so 20 minutes total, and it
>> _still_ wasn't done enough.
>>
>> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
>> increase the baking time, or both?
>>
>> It's almost all gone - we had chili cheese dogs for dinner, and my
>> oldest son decided this made a fine bread onto which to pile chili. I
>> figure that my first quick bread experiment was obviously good
>> enough to eat, and that makes me happy.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -S-
>
> Put it in the broiler...that outta do it.

If you have never tried to bake GF bread, you might not believe the results!
It really is finicky. I once felt triumph when I baked a perfect loaf in my
bread machine. It was from a mix. I used that same mix three different
times after that, all with dismal results. I don't know what it is about
that bread but it often just will not bake in the middle. I even purchased
a very expensive loaf from a bakery and it was raw in the middle! I was not
happy.

Another bread that I did have good success with was foccacia. I don't have
that recipe handy but I think it was in the Bette Hagman's Celebrations
cookbook. I used it as is, as pizza dough and even to make a dessert pizza.
My whole family ate the dessert pizza and didn't notice that it had a GF
taste. Sadly a lot of the GF stuff has an off taste and texture to it.
Rice flour can have a gritty texture to it and the end result can be
crumbly. Xanthan gum is really pretty necessary to add to the mix and eggs
are usually needed for lightness. I found that the flax and water mix
worked far better as an egg sub than the purchased egg sub.

Julie Bove wrote:
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
>> greased loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about
>> increasing baking time, temperature or both.
>>
>> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
>> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So
>>
>> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
>>
>> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
>>
>> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
>>
>> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
>>
>> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
>>
>> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
>>
>> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
>>
>> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
>>
>> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the
>> very end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more
>> bread-like and less cake-like texture.
>>
>> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
>> pan, and bake.
>>
>> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F
>> and 14 minutes.
>>
>> Results? Well, it was tasty but it clearly wasn't done so, after
>> taking a slice out of the middle, I put the two halves back into the
>> pan and baked it for another 6 minutes, so 20 minutes total, and it
>> _still_ wasn't done enough.
>>
>> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
>> increase the baking time, or both?
>>
>> It's almost all gone - we had chili cheese dogs for dinner, and my
>> oldest son decided this made a fine bread onto which to pile chili. I
>> figure that my first quick bread experiment was obviously good
>> enough to eat, and that makes me happy.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> -S-
>
> This is by far the best GF recipe we have found. But it does contain
> sugar. I'm sure you could sub in a mix of nut flour with this. Not
> so sure how well a sugar sub would work. And I used flax and water
> instead of the eggs. But the end result was very much like the real
> thing.
> http://www.celiac.com/articles/812/1...ree/Page1.html

This one lists a GF flour mix as an ingredient and, if you follow that
link, you'll find what's in it:

*******************
White Rice Flour 32%
Brown Rice Flour 32%
Potato Starch (not pot. flour) 15%
Tapioca Flour 12%
Corn Starch 6%
Xanthan Gum 3%
*******************

Per my wife's instructions, which are based on what she read in the
book, "Wheat Belly," which was recommended to me by someone in whose
opinion I place a lot of trust, were to try to first get rid of gluten,
but second to get rid of starchy gluten substitutes like rice, corn, and
tapioca flour, and potato starch.

That recipe has, compared to the 3 cups of flour I used, basically a cup
of walnuts where I had almonds, a cup and a half of it's gluten-free
flour mix, and some zucchini. It's an interesting idea but if I make
it, I'll keep the zucchini and figure out different flours to use.

The next recipe is also based on rice flour, and as I said above, I'm
trying to avoid that if I can.

-S-

> This next one is also great and makes a very small loaf. Would work
> as a burger bun but you'd have to make one for each person. My
> daughter and I just split it to keep the carb counts lower but it is
> sooo easy to make! I think it might do well with a sub of flours.
> Excuse the typos. I merely copied it from the celiac newsgroup some
> years ago.
> "Hi All
> It's been quite a while since iI posted but I just had to post a very
> simple delicous bread recipe I have developed. Like my mother used to
> say "necessity is the mother of invention". We travel a lot for Ken's
> work these days and I was forever running out of bread. Then I
> developed an allergy to yeast and eggs and that blew all my GF recipes
> out of the water for me so I began to experiment with a baking powder
> recipe called "lazy man's bread." I found most rice breads have a
> tendency to rise beautifully and then drop just before they are done.
> I decided to try my own version of this recipe in the microwave
> reasoning that since the bread always drops when almost cooked the
> microwave might fix this and it worked really well. The recipe I
> developed works really well in the corningware plain open stock bowls.
> A large soup bowl (not the ceral bowls that come in the sets) makes a
> small loaf and two rice bowls can be used instead for buns. I use the
> rice flours from the Asian isle in the supermarket. My brand is Ivory
> brand and since it is imported from Thailand it is not likely to be
> cross sontaminated with wheat flour. The secret to the nice texture is
> the sweet rice flour AKA glutenous or sweet rice flour.
> Here is my recipe:
>
> Microwave Rice Bread
> 1/2 cup rice flour
> 1 heaping teaspoon glutenous rice flour (also called sticky rice flour
> and yes it glutten is free even though the name implies
> otherwise)
> 1/4 to 1/2 tsp salt (according to taste)
> 1 tbsp baking powder
> 1/2 cup soda water ot carbonated spring water
>
> If I am baking this in the bigger bowl I just put dry ingredients in
> the bowl and mix them then I mix in the carbonated water and put it in
> the mocrowave immediately for 3 minutes and in a total of 5 minutes
> or less I have a soft delicious loaf of bread. This is best eaten
> fresh but it is so simple I don't mind baking one whenever I am hungry
> for bread. It also makes a delicious hamburger bun it you bake it in
> two rice bowls instead.
>
> I have also addapted this recipe to a strawberry shortcake by adding a
> bit of sugar (about 1 tbsp) and vanilla. It can also take a bit of
> margarine added to it to make it richer. I just go a bit heavy on the
> flour or a bit light on the water.
>
> If I have to stay in a hotel I just put the dry ingredients for one
> recipe in a ziploc bag and when I get there all I have to do is put it
> in my bowl and add 1/2 cup of carbonated water. this is so great since
> most hotels have a microwave. This also works with plain water but
> since rice flour is hard to make rise using carbonated water makes it
> lighter.
>
> Just hink this is a great one for kids who hate crusts since it is
> crust free. Hope you all enjoy the fresh bread as much as I and my
> other celiac friends have. Betty
> "

In article >,
"Steve Freides" > wrote:

> No one has yet responded to my question about whether I should increase
> oven temperature, cooking time, or both - guess I'm on my own for that
> one.

From one random stranger on usenet, I'd put the temp at 350 F and bake
for 45 minutes. I'd adjust time up or down later if I didn't like the
result. I've never baked anything remotely like what you baked, so be
assured that I'm probably wrong.

leo

In article >,
"Steve Freides" > wrote:

> No one has yet responded to my question about whether I should increase
> oven temperature, cooking time, or both - guess I'm on my own for that
> one.

And another suggestion. Stick a toothpick into it and see if it comes
out clean with whatever time and temp you want. Might work.

leo

I'm thinking baking soda would be a better leavening agent for this as opposed to baking powder..or at least a combo of the two. The soda and buttermilk should play very well together. General game plan when the outside is done and the inside isn't is to lower the heat and increase the time. Try a decrease of temp to 375 and increase of time to 25 mins. Bet that would get you close. Cant fool them chillins..if they like it..its good. lol. Sounds like you did a fine job!!

On Mar 7, 10:17*am, heyjoe > wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:01:45 -0500, Steve Freides wrote:
> > No one has yet responded to my question about whether I should increase
> > oven temperature, cooking time, or both - guess I'm on my own for that
> > one.
>
> Maybe I missed it, but what size pan are you using (eg. 8"x4"x2") and
> how full is it (how close to the top is the raw batter/dough)?
>
> As a staring point, to test for doneness, use a thermometer and a final
> temp of 200°F. *Let rest in the pan for 10 minutes, then turn onto a
> cooling rack.
>
> --
> "I jotted down three names: Julia Child, Mr. Wizard and Monty Python"
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * A. Brown

+1

heyjoe wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:01:45 -0500, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> No one has yet responded to my question about whether I should
>> increase oven temperature, cooking time, or both - guess I'm on my
>> own for that one.
>
> Maybe I missed it, but what size pan are you using (eg. 8"x4"x2") and
> how full is it (how close to the top is the raw batter/dough)?
>
> As a staring point, to test for doneness, use a thermometer and a
> final temp of 200°F. Let rest in the pan for 10 minutes, then turn
> onto a cooling rack.

Thanks very much. I know we have a thermometer here, will track it down
and give it a try.

Whatever a standard size loaf pan is - I looked, no measurements, and my
batter starts 1/2 way up the sides and rises to perhaps a 50% increase
in height.

-S-

Steve Freides wrote:
>
> No one has yet responded to my question about whether I should increase
> oven temperature, cooking time, or both - guess I'm on my own for that
> one.

Instead of loaves make muffins, much easier to judge doneness... I
like those jumbo muffin pans.

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:31:26 -0600, heyjoe >
wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:27:31 -0800, Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
>
> > From one random stranger on usenet, I'd put the temp at 350 F and bake
> > for 45 minutes. I'd adjust time up or down later if I didn't like the
> > result. I've never baked anything remotely like what you baked, so be
> > assured that I'm probably wrong.
>
> That sounds about right - 350°F for 45 minutes.
>
> Although with 3+ cups of dry ingredients and 1-1/2 cups of liquid, I
> wouldn't hesitate to go longer, say . . . 350°F for an hour to an hour
> and 15 minutes.

Don't forget that temperature trick you taught me! I pull bread out
at 200° now.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:17:27 -0600, heyjoe >
wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:01:45 -0500, Steve Freides wrote:
>
> > No one has yet responded to my question about whether I should increase
> > oven temperature, cooking time, or both - guess I'm on my own for that
> > one.
>
> Maybe I missed it, but what size pan are you using (eg. 8"x4"x2") and
> how full is it (how close to the top is the raw batter/dough)?
>
> As a staring point, to test for doneness, use a thermometer and a final
> temp of 200°F. Let rest in the pan for 10 minutes, then turn onto a
> cooling rack.

Heh. I thought you forgot! It's a great trick and works every time I
have a question and remember to use it. Thanks for the tip!

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 14:32:22 -0600, heyjoe >
wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:26:09 -0800, sf wrote:
>
> > Heh. I thought you forgot! It's a great trick and works every time I
> > have a question and remember to use it. Thanks for the tip!
>
> I can't believe you remembered that, much less that it was my
> suggestion. I haven't been in IRC for a long time.

I haven't been there since I reformatted my computer last
September (to correct a few things that reformatting didn't address,
however I managed to lose contact with my DVD drive and have no idea
how to make my computer recognize that I not only have one, all the
drivers are up to date too). Oh well, such is life.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 14:32:23 -0600, heyjoe >
wrote:

> When faced with a new or unknown oven, I check the accuracy of the
> temperature via the following - buy a reputable brand of biscuits from
> the refrigerator case (eg. Pilsbury) and follow the directions on the
> tube exactly to the nth detail. If they turn out well, I believe the
> oven tmperature is spot on.
> Underbaked biscuits? the oven runs on the cold side
> Overbaked biscuits? the oven runs hot

You're full of good ideas! I think you should write a kitchen tips
and tricks blog.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 14:32:23 -0600, heyjoe >
> wrote:
>
>> When faced with a new or unknown oven, I check the accuracy of the
>> temperature via the following - buy a reputable brand of biscuits from
>> the refrigerator case (eg. Pilsbury) and follow the directions on the
>> tube exactly to the nth detail. If they turn out well, I believe the
>> oven tmperature is spot on.
>> Underbaked biscuits? the oven runs on the cold side
>> Overbaked biscuits? the oven runs hot
>
> You're full of good ideas! I think you should write a kitchen tips
> and tricks blog.

What is wrong with checking the temp with an oven thermometer?

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 21:12:40 -0000, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 14:32:23 -0600, heyjoe >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> When faced with a new or unknown oven, I check the accuracy of the
> >> temperature via the following - buy a reputable brand of biscuits from
> >> the refrigerator case (eg. Pilsbury) and follow the directions on the
> >> tube exactly to the nth detail. If they turn out well, I believe the
> >> oven tmperature is spot on.
> >> Underbaked biscuits? the oven runs on the cold side
> >> Overbaked biscuits? the oven runs hot
> >
> > You're full of good ideas! I think you should write a kitchen tips
> > and tricks blog.
>
> What is wrong with checking the temp with an oven thermometer?
>
Because calibration may not be the issue. Your plop in oven
thermometer type thermometer may give what you think is an "accurate"
reading, but it needs to work properly when you're baking. The one
and only time I ever had an oven issue, it was the thermostat.
Setting the temperature higher or lower doesn't help when the
thermostat doesn't kick on or off when it should.

Recalibrating is a complete waste of money AFAIC because all they do
is reset your dial the number of +/- degrees that it's off (so "off"
isn't at zero anymore) and you've already done that yourself by
setting the temp at (let's say) 400 F when the recipe says 375 F.


--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/7/2013 11:12 AM, Ophelia wrote:
> What is wrong with checking the temp with an oven thermometer?
>

That's the way I'd do it although it would be a real hoot to see a
appliance repair guy calibrate an oven with a can of biscuits. I
recently replaced the thermo-sensor in my stove and wanted to make sure
the temperature was right but couldn't find thermometer. I've even used
2 old thermometers at a time - if they both agree, I figure it's close
enough. OTOH, since the oven is acting exactly how it's supposed to,
there's no need to calibrate.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/7/2013 11:12 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>> What is wrong with checking the temp with an oven thermometer?
>>
>
> That's the way I'd do it although it would be a real hoot to see a
> appliance repair guy calibrate an oven with a can of biscuits.

lol my thoughts exactly)
I
> recently replaced the thermo-sensor in my stove and wanted to make sure
> the temperature was right but couldn't find thermometer. I've even used 2
> old thermometers at a time - if they both agree, I figure it's close
> enough. OTOH, since the oven is acting exactly how it's supposed to,
> there's no need to calibrate.

Cool

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:07:04 -0600, heyjoe >
wrote:

>On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 15:48:17 -0500, Susan wrote:
>
>> I'll stick with quality foods and getting an accurate oven temp.
>
>And where, pray tell, do you buy a tried and true, accurate, precise
>oven thermometer? Brand, make and model would be greatly appreciated.
>How much should I expect to pay for one of them?

One of the most accurate methods to check your oven temperature is
with a large pot of water, set your oven for 210º and raise the
setting in tiny increments until the water is at a full boil. You
really don't need laboratory accuracy for a home oven... if yours is
within +/-10º you'e in the ball park. Very few home ovens are
accurate, but if you learn your oven you'll do fine. Cooking/baking
is not an exact science... most pro bakers never weigh/measure, they
judge with their sences... an experienced baker can tell if a batter
is correct by the sound it makes slapping the mixer bowl. It's
actually silly to attempt measuring flour accurately, flour is always
different each harvest and by the weather that day... there's a good
reason why bakers use bench flour. All that crapola about baking
requiring precise measuring is absolute myth... baking is not
pharmacology.

On 3/7/2013 12:28 PM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 3/7/2013 11:12 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>> What is wrong with checking the temp with an oven thermometer?
>>>
>>
>> That's the way I'd do it although it would be a real hoot to see a
>> appliance repair guy calibrate an oven with a can of biscuits.
>
> lol my thoughts exactly)
> I
>> recently replaced the thermo-sensor in my stove and wanted to make
>> sure the temperature was right but couldn't find thermometer. I've
>> even used 2 old thermometers at a time - if they both agree, I figure
>> it's close enough. OTOH, since the oven is acting exactly how it's
>> supposed to, there's no need to calibrate.
>
> Cool
>

The oven is pretty temperamental. Sometimes it just locks up and won't
function. If it gets a faulty reading from a sensor, it sets an error
code. then it locks up. I tested the oven after the new thermo-sensor
was installed and the darn thing started making crackling noises and the
display went goofy and bright - a very bad sign. I cut the power to it
but when I turned it on the next day it was working great. I love the
performance and roominess of the oven but man, it's gonna be the death
of me.

On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:46:15 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

> The oven is pretty temperamental. Sometimes it just locks up and won't
> function. If it gets a faulty reading from a sensor, it sets an error
> code. then it locks up. I tested the oven after the new thermo-sensor
> was installed and the darn thing started making crackling noises and the
> display went goofy and bright - a very bad sign. I cut the power to it
> but when I turned it on the next day it was working great. I love the
> performance and roominess of the oven but man, it's gonna be the death
> of me.

Is your oven digital? I am NOT looking forward to replacing my ovens.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On 3/7/2013 7:24 PM, sf wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:46:15 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>> The oven is pretty temperamental. Sometimes it just locks up and won't
>> function. If it gets a faulty reading from a sensor, it sets an error
>> code. then it locks up. I tested the oven after the new thermo-sensor
>> was installed and the darn thing started making crackling noises and the
>> display went goofy and bright - a very bad sign. I cut the power to it
>> but when I turned it on the next day it was working great. I love the
>> performance and roominess of the oven but man, it's gonna be the death
>> of me.
>
> Is your oven digital? I am NOT looking forward to replacing my ovens.
>

Like a lot of appliances, it uses digital control systems. The situation
is that the electronics on the circuit boards are sensitive to heat and
moisture and they frequently malfunction. The old style
electro-mechanical appliances were more able to withstand the conditions
that appliances are likely to produce. My next stove is going to be the
cheapest non-digital one that I can find.

On 3/8/2013 1:20 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 3/7/2013 7:24 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:46:15 -1000, dsi1
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> The oven is pretty temperamental. Sometimes it just locks up and won't
>>> function. If it gets a faulty reading from a sensor, it sets an error
>>> code. then it locks up. I tested the oven after the new thermo-sensor
>>> was installed and the darn thing started making crackling noises and the
>>> display went goofy and bright - a very bad sign. I cut the power to it
>>> but when I turned it on the next day it was working great. I love the
>>> performance and roominess of the oven but man, it's gonna be the death
>>> of me.
>>
>> Is your oven digital? I am NOT looking forward to replacing my ovens.
>>
>
> Like a lot of appliances, it uses digital control systems. The situation
> is that the electronics on the circuit boards are sensitive to heat and
> moisture and they frequently malfunction. The old style
> electro-mechanical appliances were more able to withstand the conditions
> that appliances are likely to produce. My next stove is going to be the
> cheapest non-digital one that I can find.

I hear that! Ditto the refrigerator. I'm not interested in a digital
kitchen with sensors that break if you so much as look at them wrong.
Just give me something reliable that works.

Jill

Gluten-free bread, Take 2 - my many thanks to those of you who've
contributed suggestions. The recipe from 2 days ago, plus changes for
today. The summary of today's changes:

More almond and bean flour, less tapioca
Added 1/2 tsp baking soda
Added 1 egg
Added a little more sugar

Details below - results unknown as it's in the oven but will post a
reply to this message later.

Steve Freides wrote:
> I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
> greased loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about
> increasing baking time, temperature or both.
>
> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So

> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
Take 2 - only 1/3 cup tapioca flour

> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
Take 2 - 1-1/3 cups garbanzo bean flour

> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
Take 2 - 1-1/3 cups almond flour

> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
Same

Take 2 - also added 1/2 tsp baking soda

> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
Same

> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
Same

> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
1-1/2 tblsp turbinado sugar (a little darker)

> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
Same

> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the very
> end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more bread-like
> and less cake-like texture.

Take 2 - Left out the little bits of butter

Take 2 - Added 1 egg

> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
> pan, and bake.

Take 2 - I don't know why, but I like it better when I add the dry
ingredients to the wet rather than the other way around, so that's what
I did this time. The liquid seems to get distributed more evenly.

> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F
> and 14 minutes.

> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
> increase the baking time, or both?

Take 2 - guesstimated today 375 F, set timer for 30 min and will check,
will also check internal temperature

-S-

Well, results are in

I'm not pleased with the taste - I can taste the egg, and the
interaction of the egg and the garbanzo bean flour gives the whole thing
a huevos rancheros flavor that I don't care for. Maybe it was the
sugar, maybe the baking soda.

375 F for 30 minutes found the top browned enough that I took it out
then. The internal temperature - our thermometer isn't quick-read - was
above 180 and still rising, guesstimate 185, so it's not perfectly done
in the center but it's close.

That said, I just ate a big slice of it and it's certainly not bad
tasting, just not as good as last time.

Back to the drawing board. I think I'll limit the bean flour to 1 cup,
try coconut flour as part of the mix, not use the egg, keep the baking
soda, and see what that's like for next time.

-S-

Steve Freides wrote:
> Gluten-free bread, Take 2 - my many thanks to those of you who've
> contributed suggestions. The recipe from 2 days ago, plus changes for
> today. The summary of today's changes:
>
> More almond and bean flour, less tapioca
> Added 1/2 tsp baking soda
> Added 1 egg
> Added a little more sugar
>
> Details below - results unknown as it's in the oven but will post a
> reply to this message later.
>
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> I decided to make it simple - a batch of biscuit batter, put into a
>> greased loaf pan. There is a question at the end from me about
>> increasing baking time, temperature or both.
>>
>> I've been going gluten-free and am trying to minimize the starchy
>> components which, in today's recipe, was tapioca flour. So
>
>> 1 cup tapioca flour (hope to eliminate and replace)
> Take 2 - only 1/3 cup tapioca flour
>
>> 1 cup garbanzo bean flour (a first for me)
> Take 2 - 1-1/3 cups garbanzo bean flour
>
>> 1 cup almond flour (might use 1-1/2 or 2 cups of this next time
> Take 2 - 1-1/3 cups almond flour
>
>> 4-1/2 tsp (1-1/2 tblsp) double-acting baking powder
> Same
>
> Take 2 - also added 1/2 tsp baking soda
>
>> 1-1/2 tsp salt (sea salt)
> Same
>
>> 3 tsp (1 tblsp) xanthan gum
> Same
>
>> 1 tblsp sugar (organic, light brown in color)
> 1-1/2 tblsp turbinado sugar (a little darker)
>
>> 1-1/2 cups buttermilk
> Same
>
>> and, for good measure, a few small bits of butter mixed in at the
>> very end, to hopefully provide some pockets and therefore a more
>> bread-like and less cake-like texture.
>
> Take 2 - Left out the little bits of butter
>
> Take 2 - Added 1 egg
>
>> Just mix all the dry ingredients, add the buttermilk, turn out in the
>> pan, and bake.
>
> Take 2 - I don't know why, but I like it better when I add the dry
> ingredients to the wet rather than the other way around, so that's
> what I did this time. The liquid seems to get distributed more
> evenly.
>> Couldn't decide on baking time or temperature, so guesstimated 400 F
>> and 14 minutes.
>
>> I baked it at 400 for 20 minutes - should I raise the temperature,
>> increase the baking time, or both?
>
> Take 2 - guesstimated today 375 F, set timer for 30 min and will
> check, will also check internal temperature
>
> -S-

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:54:37 -0500, Susan > wrote:

> So here's the thing; maybe just stop fake versions of starch foods and
> focus on real food that's gluten free and WHOLE?
>
> That's what I've done for years now, instead of looking for
> approximations of the carby stuff I used to eat.
>
> I just eat real food now.
>
> I don't think folks who have problems digesting grains are meant to eat
> baked goods.

That's the conclusion I came to when DIL was trying to do her
elimination diet thinking she was gluten intolerant. Fortunately for
me, it turned out she was allergic (sensitive?) to yeast, not gluten.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

On Fri, 8 Mar 2013 15:01:08 -0500, "Steve Freides" >
wrote:

> I also just noticed that my double-acting baking powder's "best if used
> by" date was in 2007, so I think I'm going to get a new container of
> that.

Replace your baking soda too while you're at it. I didn't believe
until recently that it made much of a difference, but it really does.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:54:37 -0500, Susan > wrote:
>
>> So here's the thing; maybe just stop fake versions of starch foods
>> and focus on real food that's gluten free and WHOLE?
>>
>> That's what I've done for years now, instead of looking for
>> approximations of the carby stuff I used to eat.
>>
>> I just eat real food now.
>>
>> I don't think folks who have problems digesting grains are meant to
>> eat baked goods.
>
> That's the conclusion I came to when DIL was trying to do her
> elimination diet thinking she was gluten intolerant. Fortunately for
> me, it turned out she was allergic (sensitive?) to yeast, not gluten.

My wife's mother died of colitis at age 60 after a lifetime of dealing
with it both in and out of hospitals. My wife, now age 55, is nowhere
near that bad but she says she feels much better after eating gluten
free, so that's the direction we're going to keep going. No food test,
blood-based, elimination diet, etc., has even yielded anything
conclusive, so we're just doing what seems to work and continuing to
experiment.

-S-

On 3/8/2013 3:27 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>
> I hear that! Ditto the refrigerator. I'm not interested in a digital
> kitchen with sensors that break if you so much as look at them wrong.
> Just give me something reliable that works.
>
> Jill

I have not had any problems with refrigerators. They seem to be
relatively trouble-free. As long as it's got an ice maker installed, I'm
happy.

Automatic dishwashers seem to have trouble with the water and heat. My
last one was famous for control board failure. I replaced it two times.

My newish microwave crapped out early - possibly because it was mounted
over the range and susceptible to lots of moisture. I just dumped it and
got a new one for $200, which was a better option than having a service
guy coming out and replacing the control board.

The stove has been troublesome but I'm reluctant to throw that out since
it was pricey and I like induction cooking.

I predict that new technology will give us wonderful products but they
will be troublesome, unreliable, and eminently replaceable.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/8/2013 3:27 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> I hear that! Ditto the refrigerator. I'm not interested in a digital
>> kitchen with sensors that break if you so much as look at them wrong.
>> Just give me something reliable that works.
>>
>> Jill
>
> I have not had any problems with refrigerators. They seem to be relatively
> trouble-free. As long as it's got an ice maker installed, I'm happy.
>
> Automatic dishwashers seem to have trouble with the water and heat. My
> last one was famous for control board failure. I replaced it two times.
>
> My newish microwave crapped out early - possibly because it was mounted
> over the range and susceptible to lots of moisture. I just dumped it and
> got a new one for $200, which was a better option than having a service
> guy coming out and replacing the control board.
>
> The stove has been troublesome but I'm reluctant to throw that out since
> it was pricey and I like induction cooking.
>
> I predict that new technology will give us wonderful products but they
> will be troublesome, unreliable, and eminently replaceable.

Aye, the more complicated, the more that can go wrong.

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 3/8/2013 10:57 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>>
>> I have not had any problems with refrigerators. They seem to be
>> relatively trouble-free. As long as it's got an ice maker installed,
>> I'm happy.
>>
>> Automatic dishwashers seem to have trouble with the water and heat. My
>> last one was famous for control board failure. I replaced it two times.
>>
>> My newish microwave crapped out early - possibly because it was
>> mounted over the range and susceptible to lots of moisture. I just
>> dumped it and got a new one for $200, which was a better option than
>> having a service guy coming out and replacing the control board.
>>
>> The stove has been troublesome but I'm reluctant to throw that out
>> since it was pricey and I like induction cooking.
>>
>> I predict that new technology will give us wonderful products but they
>> will be troublesome, unreliable, and eminently replaceable.
>
> Aye, the more complicated, the more that can go wrong.
>

I think there's a market for electro-mecanical ranges with old-style,
non-digital, controls with a higher quality build in the price range of
about $1000-$1200.

I have an electric guitar that's spec'd like one from the 60s except
that the materials are better and it's put together with greater care.
It's sweet and there's a lot to be said for some products that are built
this way. Of course, it probably wouldn't work for something like a 60s
VW.

"dsi1" > wrote in message
...

> I think there's a market for electro-mecanical ranges with old-style,
> non-digital, controls with a higher quality build in the price range of
> about $1000-$1200.

I can believe it.

> I have an electric guitar that's spec'd like one from the 60s except that
> the materials are better and it's put together with greater care. It's
> sweet and there's a lot to be said for some products that are built this
> way. Of course, it probably wouldn't work for something like a 60s VW.

VW? Volkswagen?

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

On 3/8/2013 3:21 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> On 3/8/2013 3:27 AM, jmcquown wrote:
>>
>> I hear that! Ditto the refrigerator. I'm not interested in a digital
>> kitchen with sensors that break if you so much as look at them wrong.
>> Just give me something reliable that works.
>>
>> Jill
>
> I have not had any problems with refrigerators. They seem to be
> relatively trouble-free. As long as it's got an ice maker installed, I'm
> happy.
>
I've gotten spoiled by the automatic ice maker. That's about as
complicated as I want a refrigerator to be.

> Automatic dishwashers seem to have trouble with the water and heat. My
> last one was famous for control board failure. I replaced it two times.
>
Knock wood, I haven't had to do that yet. My parents replaced this
dishwasher at some point - it's the only kitchen appliance that is
stainless.

> I predict that new technology will give us wonderful products but they
> will be troublesome, unreliable, and eminently replaceable.

The problem with all the fancy technology is finding someone who knows
how to repair it. (Surely easier if you live in a metropolitan area.)
Even if they do, are they going to have the control board (or whatever
component it is) just sitting around? Probably not. So then you have
to deal with not having an oven or a stove while they find the part. As
with your microwave, it's cheaper to buy a new one. I'm sure the mfg's
count on that sort of thing.

Jill

On Fri, 08 Mar 2013 11:28:34 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 3/8/2013 10:57 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> I have not had any problems with refrigerators. They seem to be
>>> relatively trouble-free. As long as it's got an ice maker installed,
>>> I'm happy.
>>>
>>> Automatic dishwashers seem to have trouble with the water and heat. My
>>> last one was famous for control board failure. I replaced it two times.
>>>
>>> My newish microwave crapped out early - possibly because it was
>>> mounted over the range and susceptible to lots of moisture. I just
>>> dumped it and got a new one for $200, which was a better option than
>>> having a service guy coming out and replacing the control board.
>>>
>>> The stove has been troublesome but I'm reluctant to throw that out
>>> since it was pricey and I like induction cooking.
>>>
>>> I predict that new technology will give us wonderful products but they
>>> will be troublesome, unreliable, and eminently replaceable.
>>
>> Aye, the more complicated, the more that can go wrong.
>>
>
>I think there's a market for electro-mecanical ranges with old-style,
>non-digital, controls with a higher quality build in the price range of
>about $1000-$1200.

I've purchased perfectly good used gas ranges and refrigerater
freezers for $100. Very often people buy new applainces and when
delivered the driver does you a favor by taking the old one, the store
reconditions them in their slow times and sells them for cheap...
reconditioned is often better than new... those that are in sorry
shape get chop-shopped for parts.

On 3/9/2013 8:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> I've purchased perfectly good used gas ranges and refrigerater
> freezers for $100. Very often people buy new applainces and when
> delivered the driver does you a favor by taking the old one, the store
> reconditions them in their slow times and sells them for cheap...
> reconditioned is often better than new... those that are in sorry
> shape get chop-shopped for parts.
>

Some people don't mind used appliance and others would rather have new.
I wouldn't mind a reconditioned stove. I'd rather have a newer
refrigerator. The old ones kinda sucked.

My point was that some people would pay a premium for a better built
appliance with old style controls. My guess is that in a few years all
new appliances will be controlled by the digital manipulation of numbers
rather than mechanical switches and timers.

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:35:46 -1000, dsi1
> wrote:

>On 3/9/2013 8:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>
>> I've purchased perfectly good used gas ranges and refrigerater
>> freezers for $100. Very often people buy new applainces and when
>> delivered the driver does you a favor by taking the old one, the store
>> reconditions them in their slow times and sells them for cheap...
>> reconditioned is often better than new... those that are in sorry
>> shape get chop-shopped for parts.
>>
>
>Some people don't mind used appliance and others would rather have new.
>I wouldn't mind a reconditioned stove. I'd rather have a newer
>refrigerator. The old ones kinda sucked.

My basement fridge cost $100, it was 20 years old then and is now 30
years old, works perfectly. It's no frills but for a basement I don't
care. I'd far rather have a second refrigerator freezer than a stand
alone freezer... that second fridge comes in very handy.

>My point was that some people would pay a premium for a better built
>appliance with old style controls. My guess is that in a few years all
>new appliances will be controlled by the digital manipulation of numbers
>rather than mechanical switches and timers.

You can buy new appliances that are built very well that have modern
electronic controls but it all depends on your wallet. Some modern
features I utilize but for me some are a waste... I don't need an ice
maker, I'm the ice maker, I don't mind filling trays manually,
especially since I don't use a lot of ice, one tray a day at the most,
and not every day. For company I prefer to buy a bag of that crystal
clear ice at the convenience store, it's only like $2/5 lbs.

"Brooklyn1" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 09:35:46 -1000, dsi1
> > wrote:
>
>>On 3/9/2013 8:59 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>>>
>>> I've purchased perfectly good used gas ranges and refrigerater
>>> freezers for $100. Very often people buy new applainces and when
>>> delivered the driver does you a favor by taking the old one, the store
>>> reconditions them in their slow times and sells them for cheap...
>>> reconditioned is often better than new... those that are in sorry
>>> shape get chop-shopped for parts.
>>>
>>
>>Some people don't mind used appliance and others would rather have new.
>>I wouldn't mind a reconditioned stove. I'd rather have a newer
>>refrigerator. The old ones kinda sucked.
>
> My basement fridge cost $100, it was 20 years old then and is now 30
> years old, works perfectly. It's no frills but for a basement I don't
> care. I'd far rather have a second refrigerator freezer than a stand
> alone freezer... that second fridge comes in very handy.
>
>>My point was that some people would pay a premium for a better built
>>appliance with old style controls. My guess is that in a few years all
>>new appliances will be controlled by the digital manipulation of numbers
>>rather than mechanical switches and timers.
>
> You can buy new appliances that are built very well that have modern
> electronic controls but it all depends on your wallet. Some modern
> features I utilize but for me some are a waste... I don't need an ice
> maker, I'm the ice maker, I don't mind filling trays manually,
> especially since I don't use a lot of ice, one tray a day at the most,
> and not every day. For company I prefer to buy a bag of that crystal
> clear ice at the convenience store, it's only like $2/5 lbs.

Once in a while I will buy a bag of ice. But mostly we just don't use it.
No need.

On 3/9/2013 10:46 AM, Brooklyn1 wrote:
>
> You can buy new appliances that are built very well that have modern
> electronic controls but it all depends on your wallet. Some modern
> features I utilize but for me some are a waste... I don't need an ice
> maker, I'm the ice maker, I don't mind filling trays manually,
> especially since I don't use a lot of ice, one tray a day at the most,
> and not every day. For company I prefer to buy a bag of that crystal
> clear ice at the convenience store, it's only like $2/5 lbs.
>

An ice-maker is the most important feature for me. I hate messing around
with ice cube trays! I installed a water line for my mother-in-law's LG
refrigerator in her condo and it's just beautiful! It produces a huge
amount of ice. My Samsung only produces about half that. Bummer.