Ketchup becomes issue at Chicago hot dog trial

Associated Press

12:00 p.m. CDT, August 15, 2011

CHICAGO - Whether hot dogs should be served with ketchup has become an
issue at a federal trial in Chicago involving the nation's largest hot dog
makers.

The civil trial that pits Sara Lee and Kraft began Monday.

Part of Sara Lee's complaint is that Kraft based claims about having the
nation's tastiest hot dogs on allegedly flawed taste tests.

Sara Lee attorney Richard Leighton said one shortcoming was that
participants couldn't put condiments on their hot dogs.

Magistrate Judge Morton Denlow interrupted when Leighton suggested ketchup
should have been among the condiments.

Denlow alluded to a rule among connoisseurs in the city to never to put
ketchup on a Chicago-style hot dog.

When Leighton mentioned ketchup as a potential topping, Denlow said,
"That's an area of great dispute."

<http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-hotdogbeef-ketchu,0,7807054.story>

from another account:

Sara Lee had fired the first volley in a 2009 lawsuit singling out Oscar
Mayer ads that brag its dogs beat Ball Park franks in a national taste
test. Leighton argued the tests were deeply flawed, including by serving
the hot dogs to participants without buns or condiments.

"They were served boiled hot dogs on a white paper plate," he complained.
He added that Sara Lee's hot dogs may well have tasted too salty or smoky
eaten sans buns.

[...]

At another point, Denlow said one could argue Sara Lee engaged in similar
practices, including by basing its claims of being the No. 1 hot dog by
citing in its ads an award given to Ball Park franks by ten leading chefs
in San Francisco.

"And how would ten chefs in San Francisco know what the best hot dog is
when they have never been to Chicago or tasted a Chicago hot dog?" Denlow
said, cracking a smile.

<http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9P4MLRG0.htm>

your pal,
blake

Pass the popcorn!

"Hackmatack" > wrote in message
...
> Pass the popcorn!


With butter or without?

"jmcquown" > wrote:
> "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pass the popcorn!
>
>
> With butter or without?

Ketchup-flavored!

On Aug 17, 9:38*am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Pass the popcorn!
>
> With butter or without?

Lots of butter and lots of salt!

On Aug 17, 9:46*am, Chemo the Clown > wrote:
> On Aug 17, 9:38*am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
> > "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > > Pass the popcorn!
>
> > With butter or without?
>
> Lots of butter and lots of salt!

***Personally I like Kettle Corn and we sell a bundle of it at the
store ~ The kids love it and a lot of folks take it to go as it keeps
for several days if sealed properly ~ Keep eating that high
cholesteral fat filled junk food and drinking beer on a regular basis
Chemo and you'll have a gut to really be proud of...

On Aug 17, 11:56*am, nurk_fred2000 > wrote:
> On Aug 17, 9:46*am, Chemo the Clown > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 9:38*am, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
> > > "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
>
> > > > Pass the popcorn!
>
> > > With butter or without?
>
> > Lots of butter and lots of salt!
>
> ***Personally I like Kettle Corn and we sell a *bundle of it at the
> store ~ The kids love it and a lot of folks take it to go as it keeps
> for several days if sealed properly ~ Keep eating that high
> cholesteral fat filled junk food and drinking beer on a regular basis
> Chemo and you'll *have a gut to really be proud of...

You didn't get the Fat Ass of the Year Award for nothing.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:38:04 -0400, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>
> "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Pass the popcorn!
>
>
> With butter or without?

I want cowboy corn!

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

sf wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:38:04 -0400, "jmcquown" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Pass the popcorn!
> >
> >
> > With butter or without?
>
> I want cowboy corn!

Never heard of it in NY. The first 2 google hits (not counting cooks.com)
use either:

leeks, bacon, milk
http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recip...?recipe=129696

or

hot peppers, pecans, butter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jrdn_aV_98


Those should be called 2 different dishes. What do you do?


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:54:31 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
> wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> > On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:38:04 -0400, "jmcquown" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Pass the popcorn!
> > >
> > >
> > > With butter or without?
> >
> > I want cowboy corn!
>
> Never heard of it in NY.

I'm on the opposite coast, but I wouldn't have heard of it either if
someone hadn't bought it and passed it out at work. I don't know if
it was a school fund raiser type food or what (she was the fund raiser
candy bar queen).

> The first 2 google hits (not counting cooks.com) use either:
>
> leeks, bacon, milk
> http://recipes.sparkpeople.com/recip...?recipe=129696
>
> or
>
> hot peppers, pecans, butter.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jrdn_aV_98
>
If you'd posted a link to a real recipe, I would have looked but video
recipes are boring unless they're demonstrating something I want to
learn how to do.
>
> Those should be called 2 different dishes. What do you do?

I don't do anything, it's packaged popcorn. To be honest, I've only
eaten it when someone else bought and passed it out. I can't even
tell you if it's possible to buy these days because I don't look for
it. Sorry! Just know it's sweet & salty.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:38:04 -0400, jmcquown wrote:

> "Hackmatack" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pass the popcorn!
>
> With butter or without?

no ketchup, that's for sure.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:11:46 -0400, blake murphy
> wrote:

>Ketchup becomes issue at Chicago hot dog trial
>
>Associated Press
>
>12:00 p.m. CDT, August 15, 2011

That's funny as hell. I would think plain would be the only way to do
an accurate test. The news is soooo crazy!

Lou

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:36:04 -0500, Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:11:46 -0400, blake murphy
> > wrote:
>
>>Ketchup becomes issue at Chicago hot dog trial
>>
>>Associated Press
>>
>>12:00 p.m. CDT, August 15, 2011
>
> That's funny as hell. I would think plain would be the only way to do
> an accurate test. The news is soooo crazy!
>
> Lou

possibly so, but a plain boiled frank on a paper plate sounds a little
grim. broiled or grilled, maybe.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 11:08:05 -0400, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:36:04 -0500, Lou Decruss wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:11:46 -0400, blake murphy
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Ketchup becomes issue at Chicago hot dog trial
>>>
>>>Associated Press
>>>
>>>12:00 p.m. CDT, August 15, 2011
>>
>> That's funny as hell. I would think plain would be the only way to do
>> an accurate test. The news is soooo crazy!
>>
>> Lou
>
>possibly so, but a plain boiled frank on a paper plate sounds a little
>grim. broiled or grilled, maybe.

Grim for a meal yes. For a one bite sample I think it would be best.

Lou

Kraft vs. Sara Lee: a plague on both their houses. Years ago Ralph Nader
called the hotdog "the most dangerous unguided missile in America." I'm
sure the situation has not improved since (and time has certainly not been
kind to Nader, either).

blake murphy wrote:
>
> "They were served boiled hot dogs on a white paper plate," he complained.

I can see some reasonable argument for serving the hot dogs on plain
identical buns since hot dogs are rarely eaten solo by adults. Still sad
that it would come to lawsuits over something as meaningless as a taste
test.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:00:14 -0500, Pete C. wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> "They were served boiled hot dogs on a white paper plate," he complained.
>
> I can see some reasonable argument for serving the hot dogs on plain
> identical buns since hot dogs are rarely eaten solo by adults. Still sad
> that it would come to lawsuits over something as meaningless as a taste
> test.


Any publicity is good publicity.

They're no fools.

Watch their sales take a spike after everyone samples them for themselves.

TFM®

blake murphy wrote:
>
> CHICAGO - Whether hot dogs should be served with ketchup has become an
> issue at a federal trial in Chicago involving the nation's largest hot dog
> makers.

Fun publicity otherwise meaningless.

Is a hot dog better with ketchup or mustard? Depends on how you had
them when you were a kid. Simple as that. Varies by region and by
family. My way is the right way for me. Your way is the right way for
you. Done.

Of course we're talking hot dogs here. They are one of the sausages
with the least amount of flavor. Let's go with a kielbasa or italian
sausage at least, folks! Use a sausage with enough flavor on its own
and who cares if it has condiments on them.

In Chicago metro. Go to a Polish deli and look at the many different
sausages hanging behind the counter. Point to one that looks the least
like a hot dog and ask for lessons on how to pronounce its name. Then
buy some and eat it. Ketchup, mustard, whatever you just blew away any
hot dog no matter how good. Real ethnic sausage rules.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

>blake murphy wrote:
>>
>> CHICAGO - Whether hot dogs should be served with ketchup has become an
>> issue at a federal trial in Chicago involving the nation's largest hot dog
>> makers.
>
>Fun publicity otherwise meaningless.

Very true.

>Is a hot dog better with ketchup or mustard? Depends on how you had
>them when you were a kid. Simple as that. Varies by region and by
>family. My way is the right way for me. Your way is the right way for
>you. Done.

I'll eat a dog just about any way. You think the only way a Chicago
native will eat a dog is Chi-style but you're wrong.
>
>Of course we're talking hot dogs here. They are one of the sausages
>with the least amount of flavor. Let's go with a kielbasa or italian
>sausage at least, folks! Use a sausage with enough flavor on its own
>and who cares if it has condiments on them.

I could eat them neeked but why? Too many cool flavor combinations to
sample.

>In Chicago metro. Go to a Polish deli and look at the many different
>sausages hanging behind the counter. Point to one that looks the least
>like a hot dog and ask for lessons on how to pronounce its name. Then
>buy some and eat it. Ketchup, mustard, whatever you just blew away any
>hot dog no matter how good. Real ethnic sausage rules.

There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
gets shipped past the state lines.

Lou

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:15:30 -0500, Lou Decruss wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In Chicago metro. Go to a Polish deli and look at the many different
>>sausages hanging behind the counter. Point to one that looks the least
>>like a hot dog and ask for lessons on how to pronounce its name. Then
>>buy some and eat it. Ketchup, mustard, whatever you just blew away any
>>hot dog no matter how good. Real ethnic sausage rules.
>
> There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
> here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
> choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
> gets shipped past the state lines.
>
> Lou

half-smokes are d.c.'s dog-like claim to fame:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-smoke>

personally, i'd rather have a good dog.

your pal,
blake

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 11:12:33 -0400, blake murphy
> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:15:30 -0500, Lou Decruss wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In Chicago metro. Go to a Polish deli and look at the many different
>>>sausages hanging behind the counter. Point to one that looks the least
>>>like a hot dog and ask for lessons on how to pronounce its name. Then
>>>buy some and eat it. Ketchup, mustard, whatever you just blew away any
>>>hot dog no matter how good. Real ethnic sausage rules.
>>
>> There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
>> here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
>> choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
>> gets shipped past the state lines.
>>
>> Lou
>
>half-smokes are d.c.'s dog-like claim to fame:
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-smoke>
>
>personally, i'd rather have a good dog.

I've seen those here before. It may be tasty but it looks like
someone took a dump and called it food.

Lou

Lou Decruss wrote:
> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>
>>In Chicago metro. Go to a Polish deli and look at the many different
>>sausages hanging behind the counter. Point to one that looks the least
>>like a hot dog and ask for lessons on how to pronounce its name. Then
>>buy some and eat it. Ketchup, mustard, whatever you just blew away any
>>hot dog no matter how good. Real ethnic sausage rules.
>
> There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
> here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
> choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
> gets shipped past the state lines.

We do trade with Wisconsin to the great enjoyment of both states. There
are other places where a similar method can work.

Large Hispanic community? Go to the local carnicaritas and do the same.
There are far more options than just the delicious chorizio.

Large Chinese community? Same deal. Chicago, Los Angeles and Seattle
are metro areas that I have lived in with this option. There are brands
of Chinese bacon I like even better than Danish or Gypsy bacon. It's
stuff to write poems about it's that good.

Other ethnic community? Same deal. Where I grew up there was a sizable
German and sizable Polish community. I learned the German names for
many of the sausage types I see in the local Polish markets.

I'm with Anthony Bourdain - Processed meat in a tube is one of the great
joys of life. I'm with Hot Doug's on the same topic. Regular old hot
dogs, not so much. No matter how they pale in comparison to the good
stuff. I like hot dogs okay but given the options to my biased view
they just aren't my foodie thing. So many easily had better options.

Did I mention Chinese bacon? The stuff of dreams.

Leo wrote:

> When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split lenghtwise,
> and boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of
> mayonaise, along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!

To me, chili sounds like a better addition than mayonnaise.

Bob

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:48:17 -0400, Leon Manfredi
> wrote:

> When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split lenghtwise, and
> boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of mayonaise,
> along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!

I like my mac & cheese with pork... usually chops.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:48:17 -0400, Leon Manfredi wrote:

>>There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
>>here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
>>choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
>>gets shipped past the state lines.
>>
>>Lou
>
> When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split lenghtwise, and
> boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of mayonaise,
> along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!

mayonnaise on a hot dog is *completely* beyond the pale.

your pal,
blake

On 8/18/2011 11:14 AM, blake murphy wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:48:17 -0400, Leon Manfredi wrote:
>
>>> There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
>>> here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
>>> choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
>>> gets shipped past the state lines.
>>>
>>> Lou
>>
>> When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split lenghtwise, and
>> boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of mayonaise,
>> along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!
>
> mayonnaise on a hot dog is *completely* beyond the pale.
>

I wonder if they could possibly taste as nauseating as they sound? :-)


--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On 8/18/2011 11:25 AM, James Silverton wrote:
> On 8/18/2011 11:14 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:48:17 -0400, Leon Manfredi wrote:
>>
>>>> There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
>>>> here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
>>>> choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
>>>> gets shipped past the state lines.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split
>>> lenghtwise, and
>>> boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of
>>> mayonaise,
>>> along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!
>>
>> mayonnaise on a hot dog is *completely* beyond the pale.
>>
>
> I wonder if they could possibly taste as nauseating as they sound? :-)
>
>
You know, I just had second thoughts here :-) One of the dipping sauces
used for Steak Fondue is Curry Mayonnaise. Perhaps that might work for a
hot dog cooked any way you like.

Curry Mayonnaise is sometimes supposed to be made just by adding
uncooked curry powder to mayo but is much improved if the curry powder
is cooked until aromatic with a little chopped onion and lemon juice,
to taste, is added to the sauce.

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm *not*

On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 11:25:39 -0400, James Silverton wrote:

> On 8/18/2011 11:14 AM, blake murphy wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:48:17 -0400, Leon Manfredi wrote:
>>
>>>> There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
>>>> here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
>>>> choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
>>>> gets shipped past the state lines.
>>>>
>>>> Lou
>>>
>>> When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split lenghtwise, and
>>> boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of mayonaise,
>>> along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!
>>
>> mayonnaise on a hot dog is *completely* beyond the pale.
>>
>
> I wonder if they could possibly taste as nauseating as they sound? :-)

no doubt the combination has its adherents, but it sounds grim indeed.

your pal,
blake

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:48:17 -0400, Leon Manfredi
> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:15:30 -0500, Lou Decruss > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:
>>
>>>blake murphy wrote:
>>>>
>>>> CHICAGO - Whether hot dogs should be served with ketchup has become an
>>>> issue at a federal trial in Chicago involving the nation's largest hot dog
>>>> makers.
>>>
>>>Fun publicity otherwise meaningless.
>>
>>Very true.
>>
>>>Is a hot dog better with ketchup or mustard? Depends on how you had
>>>them when you were a kid. Simple as that. Varies by region and by
>>>family. My way is the right way for me. Your way is the right way for
>>>you. Done.
>>
>>I'll eat a dog just about any way. You think the only way a Chicago
>>native will eat a dog is Chi-style but you're wrong.
>>>
>>>Of course we're talking hot dogs here. They are one of the sausages
>>>with the least amount of flavor. Let's go with a kielbasa or italian
>>>sausage at least, folks! Use a sausage with enough flavor on its own
>>>and who cares if it has condiments on them.
>>
>>I could eat them neeked but why? Too many cool flavor combinations to
>>sample.
>>
>>>In Chicago metro. Go to a Polish deli and look at the many different
>>>sausages hanging behind the counter. Point to one that looks the least
>>>like a hot dog and ask for lessons on how to pronounce its name. Then
>>>buy some and eat it. Ketchup, mustard, whatever you just blew away any
>>>hot dog no matter how good. Real ethnic sausage rules.
>>
>>There's only a handful of states that have the sausage choices we have
>>here in Chicago Doug. Every region has pro's and con's with food
>>choices and sausage choices here rock! Most of the good stuff never
>>gets shipped past the state lines.
>>
>>Lou
>
>When ever I have mac/cheese, I'll have me a couple of split lenghtwise, and
>boiled hot dogs to reduce salt, on the platter, with a splatter of mayonaise,
>along the split.... Try It..... You'll Like It!!!!!

I don't think so.

Lou

Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> blake murphy wrote:
> >
> > CHICAGO - Whether hot dogs should be served with ketchup has become an
> > issue at a federal trial in Chicago involving the nation's largest hot dog
> > makers.
>
> Fun publicity otherwise meaningless.
>
> Is a hot dog better with ketchup or mustard? Depends on how you had
> them when you were a kid. Simple as that. Varies by region and by
> family. My way is the right way for me. Your way is the right way for
> you. Done.

What you grew up with may give fond memories, but as you explored the
culinary world you may well have found you preferred your hot dogs
prepared / topped differently.

>
> Of course we're talking hot dogs here. They are one of the sausages
> with the least amount of flavor. Let's go with a kielbasa or italian
> sausage at least, folks! Use a sausage with enough flavor on its own
> and who cares if it has condiments on them.

Certainly other sausages are more flavorful than most hot dogs, but I
think there is a clear distinction between a quality all beef natural
casing hot dog and the caseless mystery meat paste mass market hot dogs.

On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Is a hot dog better with ketchup or mustard? Depends on how you had
> them when you were a kid. Simple as that.

That doesn't work for me. I ate hot dogs with ketchup and relish when
I was a kid; but as an adult, I want mustard and onions.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

On Aug 17, 9:35*pm, sf > wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:28:17 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
>
> > wrote:
> > Is a hot dog better with ketchup or mustard? *Depends on how you had
> > them when you were a kid. *Simple as that. *
>
> That doesn't work for me. *I ate hot dogs with ketchup and relish when
> I was a kid; but as an adult, I want mustard and onions.
>
> --
> I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila

never had ketchup on hot dogs, not even as a kid. If mom served hot
dogs and tater tots, mustard on the dog, ketchup on the fries. And not
yellow mustard. Guldens or other spicy brown mustard. Or "Hot Dog
Relish", which is mustard and relish together. Ketchup on burgers.
Ketchup on eggs. Ketchup on fries. Ketchup on meatloaf. I even ate
ketchup on fishsticks as a kid. So it's not a question of not liking
one condiment over another. They each have their place.

Sqwertz wrote:
>
> Oscar Meyer regular franks are crap, too. But not as crappy as Ball
> Park Meat Franks

A "wiener war" should be like a "marchmallow war". Get air guns that
shoot them and go nuts in some place that's easily cleaned up.

Then go out for beer and brats afterwards. ;^)

On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:39:52 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
> wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
> >
> > Oscar Meyer regular franks are crap, too. But not as crappy as Ball
> > Park Meat Franks
>
> A "wiener war" should be like a "marchmallow war". Get air guns that
> shoot them and go nuts in some place that's easily cleaned up.
>
> Then go out for beer and brats afterwards. ;^)

I like that visual. Spud guns would just escalate the war.

--
I take life with a grain of salt, a slice of lemon and a shot of tequila