On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:46:11 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:

> "Giusi" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>
>>> Thanks. Sadly I will not be making this. Angela has gone all Carrie
>>> Nation on me and is threatening to throw out the chicken if I use any
>>> sort of wine in it. So I'll be making lemon chicken instead.
>>
>> Um, not my favorite kind of diner when I am the cook.
>
> Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.

i don't think the law covers wine in cooked dishes.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
sf > wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 00:14:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
> > She loves the chicken Vesuvio and that has dry white
> > wine. But she has refused to eat this if I put the Marsala in. Not sure
> > why.
>
> Didn't you say she's 12... what does she know about wine?

12? Surely you jest? At that age, they know EVERYTHING. A *hundred*
times more than *any* parent, especially theirs.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 12/19/2010 09:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> >> I have never bought this before but want to get some to try in a recipe.

> > It's been really hard for me to find every time I look for it, but I've
> > had luck at big grocers like Safeway. Usually near the liqueurs, probably
> > because people think it's really sweet.
> >
> > I buy it a few times a year to make tiramisu.
>
> Thanks! I don't think our Safeways have liqueurs. Stores other than the
> liquor store can only sell wine and beer. Perhaps I will have to go to the
> liquor store then.

I was born and raised in Washington. Unless they've changed the laws,
fortified wines are sold in regular grocery stores. Look near the other
fortified wines, like sherry and port.

Without seeing the recipe, I would suggest replacing it with dry sherry.
It will cost half as much and taste similarly. Again, without seeing
the recipe.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

"sf" > ha scritto nel messaggio Jim Elbrecht
>
> wrote:
>
>> Uh-oh. I made Zabaglione with good Cream Sherry. Y'mean it could
>> get even better??!!<BG>
>
> I make mine with champagne (sparkling wine to the French) and love it.
> It's light tasting, something you can't say when it's made with
> Marsala. Don't get me wrong. I like the Marsala version too, but I
> don't make it that way.

I would call that sabayon.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:16:29 -0800, Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 00:14:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > She loves the chicken Vesuvio and that has dry white
> > > wine. But she has refused to eat this if I put the Marsala in. Not sure
> > > why.
> >
> > Didn't you say she's 12... what does she know about wine?
>
> 12? Surely you jest? At that age, they know EVERYTHING. A *hundred*
> times more than *any* parent, especially theirs.

Oh, yeah - thanks for reminding. I forgot.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

In article >,
Jim Elbrecht > wrote:

> "Julie Bove" > wrote:

> >She knows that she's too young to have it. Which is why she is refusing.
> >
>
> Did you show her the boiling point of alcohol and explain how the
> flavor is all that's left after a bit of heating?

That's a common misconception. Another one of those "cooking show"
falsehoods. It's in the rfc FAQ:

http://www.recfoodcooking.com/FAQ.html

"4.7 Cooking with alcohol

A 1990 study by E. Augustin et al. found evidence that alcoholic
beverages retain from 5 percent to as much as 85 percent of alcohol
after cooking. This study has been used in the following table
published by USDA (edited for readability).


COOKING METHOD ALCOHOL RETAINED (%)

No heat, stored overnight 70
Stirred into hot liquid 85
Flamed 75
Stirred in, then baked or simmered for:
15 min 40
30 min 35
1 hr 25
1.5 hr 20
2 hr 10
2.5 hr 5
Not stirred in, baked for: 25 min 45"

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 19:27:06 +0100, "Giusi" >
wrote:
>
> "sf" > ha scritto nel messaggio Jim Elbrecht
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Uh-oh. I made Zabaglione with good Cream Sherry. Y'mean it could
> >> get even better??!!<BG>
> >
> > I make mine with champagne (sparkling wine to the French) and love it.
> > It's light tasting, something you can't say when it's made with
> > Marsala. Don't get me wrong. I like the Marsala version too, but I
> > don't make it that way.
>
> I would call that sabayon.
>
Thanks Giusi. I've heard of sabayon, but wasn't sure what it was so I
looked it up. This site
http://www.francethisway.com/frenchrecipes/sabayon.php says "Sabayon
is the same as Italian zabaglione", so now I have two terms for it and
will use the one I happen to remember at the time.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

blake murphy wrote:
>
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:46:11 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>
> > "Giusi" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> Thanks. Sadly I will not be making this. Angela has gone all Carrie
> >>> Nation on me and is threatening to throw out the chicken if I use any
> >>> sort of wine in it. So I'll be making lemon chicken instead.
> >>
> >> Um, not my favorite kind of diner when I am the cook.
> >
> > Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.
>
> i don't think the law covers wine in cooked dishes.

No, it certainly does not, nor does it cover the alcohol in flavor
extracts.

"ViLco" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>> It is often in the section where sherries, ports, Madeira are
>>> located. They are all fortified wines, and often drunk as dessert
>>> wines, but they don't have to be dessert wines.
>
>> Ohhh! I was thinking perhaps it was fortified. I was hoping to
>> avoid the liquor store. I really hate the liquor store.
>
> Marsala can be both fortified and plain. In Italy you can recognize this
> thanks to a kind of stamp, a tax on pure alcool, which is only on the
> alcool-fortified ones. If there's no tax-stamp, then it is not fortified.
> There are many different marsala types based on the ageing time and the
> grapes used: marsala oro (gold) and ambra (amber) are from a mix of white
> and red grapes, while marsala rubino (ruby) is from red grapes and with no
> more than a 30% of white grapes.
> Marsala fine is the least aged (min 1 year), then you find marsala
> superiore (more alcool, min 2 years ageing), then superiore riserva (min 4
> years), then marsala vergine aka marsala soleras, (5 years, can't be sold
> unless bottled), then the marsala vergine (aka soleras) stravecchio (or
> riserva), with 10 years minimum. A 0.75 liters bottle of marsala vergine
> stravecchio by Pellegrino costs about 18 euros.
> The term soleras comes from the spanish and portuguese name for the
> piramidal stack of barrels where part of the wine passes every year (not
> always) from the barrels of one story to the barrels of the lower one,
> thus mixing vintages in a very smooth way.
> Marsala can be sweet but then it's labeled "all'uovo" (egg marsala) and is
> quiet similar to eggnog, just transparent and less creamy.
> The older it is, the darker it gets.
> The biggest and most famous producers are Florio, the first italian who
> started making wine the english way, and Pellegrino. Pellegrino also makes
> small bottles, like 375 milliliters.
> --

Thanks!

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2010-12-20, Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>> Ohhh! I was thinking perhaps it was fortified. I was hoping to avoid
>> the
>> liquor store. I really hate the liquor store.
>
> You are more likely to find a GOOD marsala in a good liquor store with
> a fine wine selection than in your avg supermarket. Most cooking wines
> in markets are pretty bad. Depends on where you live and the liquor
> laws. In CA, markets and liquor stores can sell the same stuff. Not
> so in many other states.
>
Yeah. I lived in CA for a while.

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"sf" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 00:14:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> She loves the chicken Vesuvio and that has dry white
>>>> wine. But she has refused to eat this if I put the Marsala in. Not
>>>> sure
>>>> why.
>>>
>>> Didn't you say she's 12... what does she know about wine?
>>
>>She knows that she's too young to have it. Which is why she is refusing.
>>
>
> Did you show her the boiling point of alcohol and explain how the
> flavor is all that's left after a bit of heating?

Nope. She doesn't want to listen to me.
>
> OTOH- I raised my kids to try everything once. But if she doesn't
> want to ingest alcohol in any form I don't think I'd make an issue out
> of it. Maybe it is her lizard brain talking to her. Too many
> folks just *can't* partake.

Yeah. This is why I am not pushing it. My parents allowed us to have
liquor on occasion as kids, but my mom didn't cook with it. In fact our
food never had any kind of sauces or really seasonings for that matter. All
very plain and boring stuff.

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Jim Elbrecht > wrote:
>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> >She knows that she's too young to have it. Which is why she is
>> >refusing.
>> >
>>
>> Did you show her the boiling point of alcohol and explain how the
>> flavor is all that's left after a bit of heating?
>
> That's a common misconception. Another one of those "cooking show"
> falsehoods. It's in the rfc FAQ:
>
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/FAQ.html
>
> "4.7 Cooking with alcohol
>
> A 1990 study by E. Augustin et al. found evidence that alcoholic
> beverages retain from 5 percent to as much as 85 percent of alcohol
> after cooking. This study has been used in the following table
> published by USDA (edited for readability).
>
>
> COOKING METHOD ALCOHOL RETAINED (%)
>
> No heat, stored overnight 70
> Stirred into hot liquid 85
> Flamed 75
> Stirred in, then baked or simmered for:
> 15 min 40
> 30 min 35
> 1 hr 25
> 1.5 hr 20
> 2 hr 10
> 2.5 hr 5
> Not stirred in, baked for: 25 min 45"

Yeah.

I'm not really supposed to have alcohol anyway. I have a fatty liver and it
is contraindicated with one of my diabetes meds. I figured in cooking once
in a while it wouldn't hurt, but I guess it's just as well I don't have it.

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> sf > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 00:14:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > She loves the chicken Vesuvio and that has dry white
>> > wine. But she has refused to eat this if I put the Marsala in. Not
>> > sure
>> > why.
>>
>> Didn't you say she's 12... what does she know about wine?
>
> 12? Surely you jest? At that age, they know EVERYTHING. A *hundred*
> times more than *any* parent, especially theirs.

Yes. It has gotten to the point where I don't like dining with her.
Everything I do while eating is wrong. I am holding the fork wrong.
Inserting the fork in my mouth wrong. Taking too large of a bite. Or too
small of a bite. Or a misshapen bite. Or too much salsa on my chip. Or
not enough. Or the chip was too large. Or too small. Or the wrong shape.
Or I am holding my mouth wrong. Or my eyes are looking at the wrong thing.
Or there is something wrong with my hair. Or my clothes.

She rolls her eyes. Slaps the table or pounds the table waaaaay too loudly.
Kicks me in the shins. Throws stuff in my food. Takes my food always from
me. And shouts, "Motherrrrrrrrrrr!" repeatedly to the point where the other
diners turn and stare. And then she says they are staring at me.

Of course she doesn't do this at home. Only when we are out somewhere.

And just think... I will have a teenager soon. Oh the joy!

"Dan Abel" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> In article >,
> Jim Elbrecht > wrote:
>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> >She knows that she's too young to have it. Which is why she is
>> >refusing.
>> >
>>
>> Did you show her the boiling point of alcohol and explain how the
>> flavor is all that's left after a bit of heating?
>
> That's a common misconception. Another one of those "cooking show"
> falsehoods. It's in the rfc FAQ:
>
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/FAQ.html
>
> "4.7 Cooking with alcohol
>
> A 1990 study by E. Augustin et al. found evidence that alcoholic
> beverages retain from 5 percent to as much as 85 percent of alcohol
> after cooking. This study has been used in the following table
> published by USDA (edited for readability).
>
>
> COOKING METHOD ALCOHOL RETAINED (%)
>
> No heat, stored overnight 70
> Stirred into hot liquid 85
> Flamed 75
> Stirred in, then baked or simmered for:
> 15 min 40
> 30 min 35
> 1 hr 25
> 1.5 hr 20
> 2 hr 10
> 2.5 hr 5
> Not stirred in, baked for: 25 min 45"
>


Except that this table is rather worthless.
It might be true if the temperature in all the examples above stays
below ca. 78.3 deg C (that's when alcohol turns into vapor) or,
since it's an water-alcohol-mix (azeotropic sp ?) the temperature
should stay below ca. 90 deg. C.

So, how hot is the "hot" liquid ? What are the baking temperatures ?
Etc ...

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>
>> Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.
>
> She cannot possibly drink the wine, but the small amount used in a recipe
> and then cooked is not really an alcoholic's dream. Very small amounts of
> alcohol remain. The thing I wouldn't like is a non-cook telling me how to
> cook. I wonder where she got this strict outlook?

She has been pointing out that other kids at her school and dance studio
have been drinking beer and things. One boy was just expelled for selling
marijuana. She just seems terrified of the whole thing.

My brother was the same way. I don't know what he thought alcohol would do
but he would have none of it, nor would he allow anyone else to have it. He
was about her age when my parents had a party with liquor. He ran around
grabbing glasses when the guests weren't looking and dumping their drinks
down the sink. That didn't go over so well with my parents!

Me OTOH at that age was thinking of a way to put a still in my bedroom
closet. I got books from the library telling me how to do it. At one point
I wanted to make wine out of raisins. My dad got wind of my plans and told
me a boy of a coworker of his blew up his closet with a still. I don't know
if that was true or not. But I decided not to do it.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
ster.com...
>
> Giusi wrote:
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> >
>> > Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.
>>
>> She cannot possibly drink the wine, but the small amount used in a recipe
>> and then cooked is not really an alcoholic's dream. Very small amounts
>> of
>> alcohol remain. The thing I wouldn't like is a non-cook telling me how
>> to
>> cook. I wonder where she got this strict outlook?
>
> Some of this thread seems to be missing, but does anyone realize that
> pretty much all of the "flavor extracts" used in cooking (vanilla,
> almond, etc.) are 30-40% alcohol, much stronger than even a "fortified"
> wine? Anyone who has issues with using wine in cooking needs to be
> slapped up side the head several times.

Actually... I find this pretty amusing. When I was a kid they used to send
home a little catalog of books you could order from the school. And they
still do, at least in elementary school. In the 5th grade they made a big
deal out of a Snoopy (as in Peanuts) cookbook because there was a recipe
that called for lemon extract. Some parent somewhere (I don't think it was
at our school) pointed out the alcohol content of lemon extract. So we all
had to take a pen and cross out that book. We were not allowed to order it.
And of course we all wanted to order it!

My friend and I then went home and checked our other extracts, thinking
surely the lemon must have a lot higher alcohol content than the others. I
can't remember our exact findings now but I don't think it was any higher.

These days you can get extracts without the alcohol in them. I use a
powdered vanilla because when daughter was first diagnosed with a gluten
allergy, it was rumored that vanilla extract contained gluten. I think this
was found to be a myth. But I still use the powder because daughter seems
to like it.

"none of your business" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 5:46 am, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
>
> >> Thanks. Sadly I will not be making this. Angela has gone all Carrie
> >> Nation on me and is threatening to throw out the chicken if I use any
> >> sort of wine in it. So I'll be making lemon chicken instead.
>
> > Um, not my favorite kind of diner when I am the cook.
>
> Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.

She's 12. She knows everything. And she is completely unaware that
there are things she doesn't know. ;-)
You can explain from now until she's 21 that the alcohol cooks out but
you probably won't get anywhere with that argument at this point. You
are wise to give up. Try again in a few months, her view will likely
change.

Marsala is not expensive. I have frequently bought Fairbanks brand for
about $5. Marsala is frequently found, as others stated, near the Port
and Sherry wines. You need not buy expensive Marsala for cooking, the
budget bottles are fine for cooking (you are mixing with so many other
ingredients, the nuances of the finer marsala are lost admist the
garlic, butter, salt, etc).

Keep your eyes out for it, buy it when you see it and keep it on hand.
It lasts forever. I can't tell you how old the bottle in my fridge
is... and try making it in a few months.

---

Thanks! Actually I was trying to come up with a recipe she would like. She
loves chicken. Just not *my* chicken. I found out I was cooking it way too
long. Her favorite chicken comes from an Italian place. They say they
marinate it in lemon juice and olive oil. It is a cutlet. No breading. I
have tried to recreate this at home but she doesn't like mine.

The other day she begged me to look at a chicken cookbook at the store.
Because of her food allergies, most of what was in there was not suitable.
So I was going through the recipes I saved online and organzing them.

I saw the chicken Marsala being done on several cooking shows and they said
it was good. When I pointed out that Rachel Ray said it was her favorite
food, she informed me that she hated Rachel Ray and wasn't going to eat
anything that she did. Well, just fine.

Hopefully she will like the lemon chicken I am going to make. We'll see.

"blake murphy" > wrote in message
.. .
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:46:11 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Thanks. Sadly I will not be making this. Angela has gone all Carrie
>>>> Nation on me and is threatening to throw out the chicken if I use any
>>>> sort of wine in it. So I'll be making lemon chicken instead.
>>>
>>> Um, not my favorite kind of diner when I am the cook.
>>
>> Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.
>
> i don't think the law covers wine in cooked dishes.

I know. But if I continue on with this, she will press the issue. I just
know she will. So for now I will drop it.

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> "Serene Vannoy" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On 12/19/2010 09:05 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> >> I have never bought this before but want to get some to try in a
>> >> recipe.
>
>> > It's been really hard for me to find every time I look for it, but I've
>> > had luck at big grocers like Safeway. Usually near the liqueurs,
>> > probably
>> > because people think it's really sweet.
>> >
>> > I buy it a few times a year to make tiramisu.
>>
>> Thanks! I don't think our Safeways have liqueurs. Stores other than the
>> liquor store can only sell wine and beer. Perhaps I will have to go to
>> the
>> liquor store then.
>
> I was born and raised in Washington. Unless they've changed the laws,
> fortified wines are sold in regular grocery stores. Look near the other
> fortified wines, like sherry and port.
>
> Without seeing the recipe, I would suggest replacing it with dry sherry.
> It will cost half as much and taste similarly. Again, without seeing
> the recipe.

It's chicken Marsala. From what I have read you really do need the Marsala.

"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
...
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>>I have never bought this before but want to get some to try in a recipe.
>
> I just got my first bottle last week.
>
>> I
>>looked at Target and Costco and neither seemed to have it. I did ask a
>>couple of women in Target who were discussing wines. They seemed to know
>>much about them. They told me it would be located with the dessert wines
>>at
>>a grocery store or the liquor store. But I'm still clueless.
>>
>>I did take a tour of Chateau St. Michelle some years ago and had some
>>Gewürztraminer and was told it was a dessert wine. But I've since heard
>>otherwise.
>>
>>Can someone give me a few more names of wine that would be in the section
>>where Marsala would be?
>
> In my liquor store it was tucked in between the Thunderbird and Wild
> Irish Rose. [colloquially known as 'Bum wines'-- cheap and
> strong. It was about the same price as Thunderbird - not "40 twice"
> anymore-- but still about as cheap as you can get. $5 for a bottle of
> wine in NY is dirt cheap ]
>
> I was shocked! I was always under the impression that Marsala was a
> top shelf wine. It is 17% alcohol, white and tastes a lot like
> cream sherry to me. Not bad. Chicken Marsala is now on my to-do
> list.

I remember the Thunderbird and some other one whose name escapes me. Came
in a flat bottle and it was easy to steal. I used to work in a store that
sold a limited amount of wine and beer and that fell under one of my
departments. We didn't sell the stuff for long. Not too many buying it but
a lot of people stealing it!

"Kalmia" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 12:05 am, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> I have never bought this before but want to get some to try in a recipe. I
> looked at Target and Costco and neither seemed to have it. I did ask a
> couple of women in Target who were discussing wines. They seemed to know
> much about them. They told me it would be located with the dessert wines
> at
> a grocery store or the liquor store. But I'm still clueless.
>
> I did take a tour of Chateau St. Michelle some years ago and had some
> Gew rztraminer and was told it was a dessert wine. But I've since heard
> otherwise.
>
> Can someone give me a few more names of wine that would be in the section
> where Marsala would be? I don't want to spend hours looking for it. I will
> be near a liquor store in a few days but don't really want to go there
> just
> for that.
>
> Thanks!

Even my supermkt. has Marsala. I like it for a certain turkey recipe,
and have dumped a little into tomato sauce too.

Any decent package store should have at least a couple of choices in
the Italian section.

---
Package store! Now there's a term I haven't heard since I left Cape Cod.
When I first heard the term, I thought it was a place you went to ship
packages!

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Julie Bove wrote:
>> >
>> >> Can someone give me a few more names of wine that would be in the
>> >> section where Marsala would be? I don't want to spend hours looking
>> >> for it. I will be near a liquor store in a few days but don't really
>> >> want to go there just for that.
>> >
>> > I've never bought marsala, so I can't help you. I'd have assumed it
>> > would be with the Italian wines. Having said that, I got the idea that
>> > you could get marsala that was either sweet or dry, it depends on what
>> > you
>> > are using it for what you'd choose. Just to further confuse
>> > things.
>>
>> Well that just muddies things even further. Hmmm...
>
> Here's how to find a sto
>
> http://liq.wa.gov/pricebook/pricebookmenu1.asp
>
> Here's how to find a product:
>
> http://liq.wa.gov/pricebook/PriceListWeb_Search.asp
>
> Looks like there's one each of sweet and dry, and it's about the same
> price as the place I looked at here in California.

Thanks!

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ster.com...
> >
> > Giusi wrote:
> >>
> >> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.
> >>
> >> She cannot possibly drink the wine, but the small amount used in a recipe
> >> and then cooked is not really an alcoholic's dream. Very small amounts
> >> of
> >> alcohol remain. The thing I wouldn't like is a non-cook telling me how
> >> to
> >> cook. I wonder where she got this strict outlook?
> >
> > Some of this thread seems to be missing, but does anyone realize that
> > pretty much all of the "flavor extracts" used in cooking (vanilla,
> > almond, etc.) are 30-40% alcohol, much stronger than even a "fortified"
> > wine? Anyone who has issues with using wine in cooking needs to be
> > slapped up side the head several times.
>
> Actually... I find this pretty amusing. When I was a kid they used to send
> home a little catalog of books you could order from the school. And they
> still do, at least in elementary school. In the 5th grade they made a big
> deal out of a Snoopy (as in Peanuts) cookbook because there was a recipe
> that called for lemon extract. Some parent somewhere (I don't think it was
> at our school) pointed out the alcohol content of lemon extract. So we all
> had to take a pen and cross out that book. We were not allowed to order it.
> And of course we all wanted to order it!
>
> My friend and I then went home and checked our other extracts, thinking
> surely the lemon must have a lot higher alcohol content than the others. I
> can't remember our exact findings now but I don't think it was any higher.
>
> These days you can get extracts without the alcohol in them. I use a
> powdered vanilla because when daughter was first diagnosed with a gluten
> allergy, it was rumored that vanilla extract contained gluten. I think this
> was found to be a myth. But I still use the powder because daughter seems
> to like it.

The idea that somehow cooking with wine, liquor or alcohol based
extracts makes some sort of alcoholic end product is also a myth. The
amount of alcohol remaining in the cooked food is so low that you would
die from your stomach exploding from overeating long before you got
anywhere near buzzed, much less drunk. I'm pretty sure the amount of
alcohol remaining is lower than that in non-alcoholic beers.

"Julie Bove" schrieb :
<snip>
> Me OTOH at that age was thinking of a way to put a still in my bedroom
> closet. I got books from the library telling me how to do it. At one
> point I wanted to make wine out of raisins. My dad got wind of my plans
> and told me a boy of a coworker of his blew up his closet with a still. I
> don't know if that was true or not. But I decided not to do it.

If it wasn't true, it was a beneficial lie.
Distillation isn't a trivial thing; one should know how to do it.
Otherwise, the consequences can be rather serious.

Cheers,

Michael Kuettner

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "blake murphy" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:46:11 -0800, Julie Bove wrote:
> >
> >> "Giusi" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks. Sadly I will not be making this. Angela has gone all Carrie
> >>>> Nation on me and is threatening to throw out the chicken if I use any
> >>>> sort of wine in it. So I'll be making lemon chicken instead.
> >>>
> >>> Um, not my favorite kind of diner when I am the cook.
> >>
> >> Yeah, but legally she can't have the wine. So I give up on this one.
> >
> > i don't think the law covers wine in cooked dishes.
>
> I know. But if I continue on with this, she will press the issue. I just
> know she will. So for now I will drop it.

You need to press the issue yourself, armed with actual facts to dispel
the propaganda she's being fed.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:53:05 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

> She
> loves chicken. Just not *my* chicken. I found out I was cooking it way too
> long. Her favorite chicken comes from an Italian place. They say they
> marinate it in lemon juice and olive oil. It is a cutlet. No breading. I
> have tried to recreate this at home but she doesn't like mine.

Try making Chicken Piccata (I don't flour it). Hubby doesn't like
capers, so I leave them out of his portion.

--

Never trust a dog to watch your food.

Julie wrote on Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:59:01 -0800:


> "Kalmia" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Dec 20, 12:05 am, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>> I have never bought this before but want to get some to try
>> in a recipe. I looked at Target and Costco and neither seemed
>> to have it. I did ask a couple of women in Target who were
>> discussing wines. They seemed to know much about them. They
>> told me it would be located with the dessert wines at a
>> grocery store or the liquor store. But I'm still clueless.
>>
>> I did take a tour of Chateau St. Michelle some years ago and had some
>> Gew rztraminer and was told it was a dessert wine.
>> But I've since heard otherwise.
>>
>> Can someone give me a few more names of wine that would be in
>> the section where Marsala would be? I don't want to spend
>> hours looking for it. I will be near a liquor store in a few days but
>> don't really want to go there just for that.
>>
>> Thanks!

> Even my supermkt. has Marsala. I like it for a certain turkey
> recipe, and have dumped a little into tomato sauce too.

> Any decent package store should have at least a couple of
> choices in the Italian section.

Just for the heck of it and to add a little confusion; don't mistake
Marsala for Masala. There really is "Chicken Masala" and it's good!
Masala is a general Indian name for a mixture of spices and the
commonest is Garam Masala but there are Masalas sold for specific foods
like fish.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Julie Bove" > wrote:

>
>"Jim Elbrecht" > wrote in message
-snip-
>>
>> In my liquor store it was tucked in between the Thunderbird and Wild
>> Irish Rose. [colloquially known as 'Bum wines'-- cheap and
>> strong. It was about the same price as Thunderbird - not "40 twice"
>> anymore-- but still about as cheap as you can get. $5 for a bottle of
>> wine in NY is dirt cheap ]
-snip-
>I remember the Thunderbird and some other one whose name escapes me. Came
>in a flat bottle and it was easy to steal.

Never stole any-- but Mad Dog came in an easy to carry in a pocket
flask.
#2 in this lineup- <g>
http://www.bumwine.com/


Jim

"Julie Bove" > wrote:

-snip-
>I saw the chicken Marsala being done on several cooking shows and they said
>it was good. When I pointed out that Rachel Ray said it was her favorite
>food, she informed me that she hated Rachel Ray and wasn't going to eat
>anything that she did. Well, just fine.
>

When my daughter was born, a co-worker, who had a 16yr old at the
time, told me how to care for a daughter.
"You enjoy them until they are 5.
Then you lock them in a room and feed them through a slot.
When they turn 12-- seal up the slot."

My turned human again at about 16, oddly enough. Now she's 25 & I'm
mighty proud of how she turned out.

>Hopefully she will like the lemon chicken I am going to make. We'll see.

That wouldn't have sold to mine at 12-- "You're not supposed to mix
fruit with meat." but she loves it now.

Enjoy the things you can with her-- it all passes so quickly.

Jim

Michael Kuettner wrote:
>
> "Julie Bove" schrieb :
> <snip>
> > Me OTOH at that age was thinking of a way to put a still in my bedroom
> > closet. I got books from the library telling me how to do it. At one
> > point I wanted to make wine out of raisins. My dad got wind of my plans
> > and told me a boy of a coworker of his blew up his closet with a still. I
> > don't know if that was true or not. But I decided not to do it.
>
> If it wasn't true, it was a beneficial lie.
> Distillation isn't a trivial thing; one should know how to do it.
> Otherwise, the consequences can be rather serious.

Yep, suggest the kids consider brewing beer, it's a lot safer than
distillation.

Julie Bove wrote:
>
> Me OTOH at that age was thinking of a way to put a still in my bedroom
> closet. I got books from the library telling me how to do it. At one point
> I wanted to make wine out of raisins. My dad got wind of my plans and told
> me a boy of a coworker of his blew up his closet with a still. I don't know
> if that was true or not. But I decided not to do it.

If you put apple wine in an open container and put it in the freezer
some of the water turns to slush. Pour it through a sieve and you get
apple jack. Stronger than wine, not as strong as brandy. As much as I
like fresh hard cider I'll stick with hard cider.

Try the same thing with mead and I have no idea what to call it but it
tastes good.

Try the same thing with beer and you'd think the result is a bit like
whiskey. Nope. Whiskey may be distilled from grain but it never gets
hops. The freeze strengthened stuff comes out pretty nasty.

In article >,
"Michael Kuettner" > wrote:

> "Dan Abel" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag

> > That's a common misconception. Another one of those "cooking show"
> > falsehoods. It's in the rfc FAQ:
> >
> > http://www.recfoodcooking.com/FAQ.html
> >
> > "4.7 Cooking with alcohol
> >
> > A 1990 study by E. Augustin et al.

[snipped table]

> Except that this table is rather worthless.

No, it's not worthless. It pretty obviously disproves the two common
myths about alcohol in cooking:

1. All the alcohol disappears in cooking with a bit of heat.
2. Obviously, in a "flamed" dish, you can *see* all the alcohol burn
off.

> It might be true if the temperature in all the examples above stays
> below ca. 78.3 deg C (that's when alcohol turns into vapor) or,
> since it's an water-alcohol-mix (azeotropic sp ?) the temperature
> should stay below ca. 90 deg. C.

The temperature where liquid alcohol turns to vapor is only important
for pure alcohol, and of course, liquids evaporate at lower temperatures
also. Leave a pan of water on the table at room temperature and it will
evaporate in a few days.

An azeotrope of alcohol and water is 5/95. Both the alcohol and the
water will evaporate at room temperature, though. Azeotrope refers to
boiling.

> So, how hot is the "hot" liquid ? What are the baking temperatures ?
> Etc ...

If you want to debate the experimental design and methodology, you are
welcome to look up the study or the USDA published data based on it.
I'm just going to accept it as a rough guide, and a disproof of the
common myths that I read about often on this group or elsewhere.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Dec 20, 1:59*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Kalmia" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On Dec 20, 12:05 am, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have never bought this before but want to get some to try in a recipe.. I
> > looked at Target and Costco and neither seemed to have it. I did ask a
> > couple of women in Target who were discussing wines. They seemed to know
> > much about them. They told me it would be located with the dessert wines
> > at
> > a grocery store or the liquor store. But I'm still clueless.
>
> > I did take a tour of Chateau St. Michelle some years ago and had some
> > Gew rztraminer and was told it was a dessert wine. But I've since heard
> > otherwise.
>
> > Can someone give me a few more names of wine that would be in the section
> > where Marsala would be? I don't want to spend hours looking for it. I will
> > be near a liquor store in a few days but don't really want to go there
> > just
> > for that.
>
> > Thanks!
>
> Even my supermkt. has Marsala. *I like it for a certain turkey recipe,
> and have dumped a little into tomato sauce too.
>
> Any decent package store should have at least a couple of choices in
> the Italian section.
>
> ---
> Package store! *Now there's a term I haven't heard since I left Cape Cod.
> When I first heard the term, I thought it was a place you went to ship
> packages!

We call them "package stores" in Nebraska, too.

On Dec 20, 1:39*pm, "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Dan Abel" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > In article >,
> > sf > wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 00:14:02 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > She loves the chicken Vesuvio and that has dry white
> >> > wine. *But she has refused to eat this if I put the Marsala in. *Not
> >> > sure
> >> > why.
>
> >> Didn't you say she's 12... what does she know about wine?
>
> > 12? *Surely you jest? *At that age, they know EVERYTHING. *A *hundred*
> > times more than *any* parent, especially theirs.
>
> Yes. *It has gotten to the point where I don't like dining with her.
> Everything I do while eating is wrong. *I am holding the fork wrong.
> Inserting the fork in my mouth wrong. *Taking too large of a bite. *Or too
> small of a bite. *Or a misshapen bite. *Or too much salsa on my chip. *Or
> not enough. *Or the chip was too large. *Or too small. *Or the wrong shape.
> Or I am holding my mouth wrong. *Or my eyes are looking at the wrong thing.
> Or there is something wrong with my hair. *Or my clothes.
>
> She rolls her eyes. *Slaps the table or pounds the table waaaaay too loudly.
> Kicks me in the shins. *Throws stuff in my food. *Takes my food always from
> me. *And shouts, "Motherrrrrrrrrrr!" repeatedly to the point where the other
> diners turn and stare. *And then she says they are staring at me.
>
> Of course she doesn't do this at home. *Only when we are out somewhere.
>
> And just think... *I will have a teenager soon. *Oh the joy!

A good swift smack on the mouth will clear that shit right up.

In article <
>,
"Pete C." > wrote:


> The idea that somehow cooking with wine, liquor or alcohol based
> extracts makes some sort of alcoholic end product is also a myth. The
> amount of alcohol remaining in the cooked food is so low that you would
> die from your stomach exploding from overeating long before you got
> anywhere near buzzed, much less drunk.

It's generally just not much of an issue, except for people taking a
drug like Antabuse. They can get quite sick from a very small amount.
This would not make for a pleasant dining experience!

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

Julie Bove wrote:
> I have never bought this before but want to get some to try in a recipe. I
> looked at Target and Costco and neither seemed to have it. I did ask a
> couple of women in Target who were discussing wines. They seemed to know
> much about them. They told me it would be located with the dessert wines at
> a grocery store or the liquor store. But I'm still clueless.
>
> I did take a tour of Chateau St. Michelle some years ago and had some
> Gewürztraminer and was told it was a dessert wine. But I've since heard
> otherwise.
>
> Can someone give me a few more names of wine that would be in the section
> where Marsala would be? I don't want to spend hours looking for it. I will
> be near a liquor store in a few days but don't really want to go there just
> for that.
>
> Thanks!
>
>



Dessert wines are quite sweet:
Madeira, Moscato d'oro, sherry, Tokaji, German and Austrian
Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese, and Ice Wine are among
those available.

gloria p

On 20/12/2010 6:01 PM, gloria.p wrote:

> Dessert wines are quite sweet:
> Madeira, Moscato d'oro, sherry, Tokaji, German and Austrian
> Beerenauslese and Trockenbeerenauslese, and Ice Wine are among
> those available.


Careful there. Some of those are fortified. Some are very sweet wines.
Ice wine is in a glass of its own. It is so sweet it is almost a syrup.
Some of the ice wines are incredible, but they aren't for everyone.

On 20/12/2010 3:12 PM, Michael Kuettner wrote:

>> Me OTOH at that age was thinking of a way to put a still in my bedroom
>> closet. I got books from the library telling me how to do it. At one
>> point I wanted to make wine out of raisins. My dad got wind of my
>> plans and told me a boy of a coworker of his blew up his closet with a
>> still. I don't know if that was true or not. But I decided not to do it.
>
> If it wasn't true, it was a beneficial lie.
> Distillation isn't a trivial thing; one should know how to do it.
> Otherwise, the consequences can be rather serious.


There are several reasons to leave distilling to the professionals. The
stuff is pressurized and stills can blow up. The other is that you need
to know what you are dealing with if you are intending to drink and
enjoy it and not just get really really drunk on it. The alcohol is not
the only thing that evaporates and goes into the finished product. There
are some flavour essences that also end up in it. That is good if they
are good flavours. You can get some nasty flavours in there too.

Julie Bove wrote:

> Ohhh! I was thinking perhaps it was fortified. I was hoping to avoid the
> liquor store. I really hate the liquor store.
>
Jeez, just put on your big girl panties and go and get it over with. Or
not. But wasting a lot of time looking in the wrong places, avoiding the
store personnel and posting about it will probably take more time than
just going to the most obvious source. My vote is time efficiency myself.

On 20/12/2010 3:50 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> It's wine, but a fortified wine like Sherry. Maybe they are confused
>> because the word for this is vino liquoroso in Italian? It's a nice,
>> nutty wine that you can use many times, so don't worry about leftovers.
>> It keeps for years anyway w/o refrigeration.
>
> Thanks. Sadly I will not be making this. Angela has gone all Carrie Nation
> on me and is threatening to throw out the chicken if I use any sort of wine
> in it. So I'll be making lemon chicken instead.
>


A friend of mine had a brother in law like that. She made a braised dish
that involved a bit of wine. The guy loved it and had seconds and wanted
her to give the recipe to his wife. When he found out that she had
served him something with wine he went postal.