On 2010-05-01 08:53:46 -0700, Janet Baraclough said:
> Why not start with a drawing of all saucepans and tools required, and
> some printy-out-sticky labels.

I don't like to have to google stuff out of a recipe. For the most part
I don't have to. Generally I want to be able to print a recipe, tote it
to the kitchen and go for it, with returning to the office and hunting
down mysteries.

Admittedly everything that's unknown in a recipe is not a mystery. I
think recipes should attempt to avoid what will be a mystery to
"general readers". That's all. Neither ingredients specified in Gaelic,
nor hand-holding from the beginning to end.
--
If you limit your actions in life to things that nobody can possibly
find fault with, you will not do much. -- Lewis Carroll

>In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont wrote:
>>
>> > I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>> >
>> > 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>> >
>> > 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more
>>than a > single spice or herb and an
>> >
>> > 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>> >
>> > If one posts a recipe they should
>> > help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>> >
>> > mike (piedmont)
>> > the practical bbq'r
>>
>> the one that gets my goat is 'one can of [whatnot].' um, what
>>size can? even the somewhat archaic '#2 can' would be helpful.
>
>Unless you live in a country which has never used "#2 can" as a
>quantity for anything. You're better off specifying weight or volume.

The recipes which annoy me aren't usually in this newsgroup but in
cookbooks. Particularly old cookbooks.

I remember a recipe which called for measuring with an empty can from a
particular brand of coffee. A brand which had apparently once been
common, but hadn't been for decades.

And then there was the recipe which called for a dime's worth of
hamburger.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)

"piedmont" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>
> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>
> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a>
> single spice or herb and an
>
> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>
> If one posts a recipe they should
> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.

BS If all you ever see is what you already know you'll never move forward.
Besides, you aren't paying anyone to produce these recipes, so be grateful
you're getting them. How is anyone to know the level of your
non-acquaintance with ingredients, brands and techniques?

If one posts a recipe, one should be prepared to answer sensible questions
if asked, not to answer all possible questions beforehand. I post from
Italy, several from the UK, Nathalie from Switzerland and many from Asia and
Australia or New Zealand. Everything posted here is strange to some of us.

"blake murphy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
George wrote:
>> On 5/1/2010 9:12 AM, piedmont wrote:
>>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a>>>
>>> single spice or herb and an
>>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>> If one posts a recipe they should
>>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.

>> I view recipes as a very loose framework and most dishes I prepare are >>
>> to taste. That certainly isn't a shortcoming. You may like more or less
>> >> garlic than me for example. Few recipes are proportion critical
>> which>> means there is a lot of latitude to adjust per your preference.
>
> all of us are not a comfortable with improvisation as you appear to be,
> at> least the first time through.
>
> readers of any kind of instructions you write are likely to be in trouble>
> from time to time. be kind to them and be as explicit as possible.

People who really don't know about cooking probably should look things up as
they run into them and ask intelligent questions when Googling doesn't
explain it. This is a cooking group and presupposes that one understands
cooking. If I went to a nuclear power plant building group I'd keep my
browser open to a search page, at least for a while. It happens that I do
know quite a lot about what people do not know about cookery, but I also
don't want to bore everyone to tears explaining what finely minced means
versus chopped or diced. If someone needed to ask, I'd answer... wouldn't
you?

"blake murphy" ha scritto nel messaggio
Stu wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont >
>> wrote:
>>
>
>>>01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>
>> This is an international cooking newsgroup. You have google, use it.
>>
>
> if you want your recipes to be widely used, maybe you shouldn't be
> sending> potential users to google. you could include a few words of
> description,
> which might pique interest rather than 'screw that, i don't know what
> that> is.'

Blake, pardon me but what you are really saying is write your recipes to an
American's comprehension. I would frankly rather Google this or that than
have someone in Indonesia spend a week trying to figure out what I might
know and/or finally give up and say the hell with it. The reader is the
only one who knows his own level of ignorance. Most posters are freely
offering their efforts in a genuinely generous way. Now some of you are
lining up to say, "It's not enough!" Tough. Maybe I am inordinately
adventurous (I am not) but I've no problem bablefishing or googling what I
don't know.

"dsgood" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> And then there was the recipe which called for a dime's worth of>
> hamburger.

Shopping with a microscope! Nice name for a new foodtv show, eh?

Giusi wrote:
> "piedmont" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>
>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>
>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a>
>> single spice or herb and an
>>
>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>
>> If one posts a recipe they should
>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>
> BS If all you ever see is what you already know you'll never move forward.
> Besides, you aren't paying anyone to produce these recipes, so be grateful
> you're getting them. How is anyone to know the level of your
> non-acquaintance with ingredients, brands and techniques?
>
> If one posts a recipe, one should be prepared to answer sensible questions
> if asked, not to answer all possible questions beforehand. I post from
> Italy, several from the UK, Nathalie from Switzerland and many from Asia and
> Australia or New Zealand. Everything posted here is strange to some of us.
>
>

And you are equally so to some of us, elsewhere on the globe. Sir.

Though for such a fellow traveler i must say your command of English is
very good.

I'm barely competent with it and im a native speaker.
--
JL

Joseph wrote to Giusi:

> Though for such a fellow traveler i must say your command of English is
> very good.
>
> I'm barely competent with it and im a native speaker.

Giusi is an American living in Italy. Though I must say her command of
English is a lot better than many other Americans. :-)

Bob

"Terry Pulliam Burd" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:17:06 -0400, "piedmont" >
> wrote:
>
>>Exactly , so it should be nice not to assume an ingredient were commonly
>>available. Corn ok, potato ok, Sylvia's Seasoned Salt, welll may not be
>>available in my local so then, what do I use now? Get it?
>
> I get it, but I don't know why this should be such an obstacle. Google
> [the following is, obviously, hypothetical] "Sylvia's Seasoned Salt,"
> which would bring up places to buy it and those places will likely
> list the ingredients, and it might also tell you that "Sylvia's
> Seasoned Salt" is distributed by Salt Purveyors, LLC. Then you learn
> that Salt Purveyors, LLC has a website with drop down menu that will
> allow you to select your state/region and the website will also tell
> you where to go to buy "Sylvia's Seasoned Salt" and also informs you
> that "Sylvia's Seasoned Salt" is called "Marvin's Special Salt" in the
> northeast and "Stan's Swell Salt" in the south and so on and so forth.
>
> And all that googling will take alot longer than it did for me to
> keyboard this post.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
>
> --
>
> "If the soup had been as warm as the wine,
> if the wine had been as old as the turkey,
> and if the turkey had had a breast like the maid,
> it would have been a swell dinner." Duncan Hines
>
>


I'm not against Googling, presenting a recipe is a chance to share something
which you probably find pleasant and a recipe can be a plesaant and sharing
form of communication, or you could be be gruff and make it blunt, short and
assuming.

--
regards, piedmont (michael)
The Practical BBQ'r - http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/
(mawil55) Hardiness Zone 7-8

On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> wrote,
> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
>poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from your
>parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.

Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people who can
learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it, but for some of
us it was a big advantage learning to read.

David wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 10:27:02 -0700:

> On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> > wrote,
>> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
>> poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from
>> your parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.

> Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people
> who can learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it,
> but for some of us it was a big advantage learning to read.

I was never taught to cook by relatives except a little time spent
watching my Mom make breakfast. However, like *most* chemists, I never
found a recipe book hard to follow and later, my wife and I learned
together, including watching Julia Child.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 5/2/2010 9:19 AM, Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The >
> from "<friesian@zoocrewphoto. com> contains
> these words:
>
>> Personally, I think it would be nice to give a range or starting
>> portion. It could be a tiny pinch or a tablespoon, or more, depending
>> on what the recipe is, and what ingredient is being discussed.
>
>> For example, when I give my recipe for smoked salmon dip, I list a
>> smaller amount of liquid smoke with a note, add more if you prefer it
>> stronger (as I usually do).
>
> Holy cow. If I saw a recipe for smoked salmon dip that included liquid
> smoke, I'd know to avoid it completely.
>
> Janet

I would substitute an envelope of onion soup mix...

On 5/2/2010 3:07 AM, Janet Baraclough wrote:
> The >
> from > contains these words:
>
>
>> Learning to place trust in yourself and your taste may take a long time
>> for a few. I can tell that you're not one of those! For most if us, it
>> takes a while to learn to get a flavor target solidly in our minds. For
>> beginners it's quite fuzzy and well, you can't reliably hit a fuzzy target!
>
> That might be true for any droid who landed on earth from planet Zog
> disguised as a fully grown adult humanoid.*
> Real humans, have had a decade or two of eating food cooked by
> others; quite enough experience of mastication
> to "consolidate a flavor target" in even the tiniest brain.

Evidently, it's easy enough to judge someone's cooking, but put a salt
shaker in the hands of a real human who doesn't know how to use it and
they'll tank. Obviously, you've forgotten what it was like when you
started cooking. You've probably also forgot what it's like to be unsure
of yourself. :-)

>
> * Those who have not had opportunity to solidly consolidate a flavour
> target should enter the following useful phrases into their speech
> synthesiser.
> "Blech, tastes like shit"
> "Yummy, that's just like Mother made it".
>
> Janet.

On 5/2/2010 7:27 AM, David Harmon wrote:
> On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> > wrote,
>> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
>> poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from your
>> parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.
>
> Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people who can
> learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it, but for some of
> us it was a big advantage learning to read.

Are you suggesting that book learning is more effective than practical
experience? Does reading a whole lot make one a great brain surgeon?
Does reading a music score give you a better understanding of what a
composer is trying to say than hearing it played? I ain't knocking
nobody. We all have to make the best of whatever is available to us but
please, let me know if I've said anything untrue - I wouldn't want to do
that! :-)

It ironic that you imply that I don't value reading.

On Sat, 1 May 2010 10:11:30 -0700 (PDT), none of your business wrote:

> On May 1, 11:00*am, blake murphy > wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont wrote:
>>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>
>>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>
>>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a
>>> single spice or herb and an
>>
>>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>
>>> If one posts a recipe they should
>>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>>
>>> mike (piedmont)
>>> the practical bbq'r
>>
>> the one that gets my goat is 'one can of [whatnot].' *um, what size can?
>> even the somewhat archaic '#2 can' would be helpful.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> If someone states a can of (whatever), then it's most likely the most
> commonly available size.

'most likely' don't feed the bulldog.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:48:07 +1200, Miche wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont wrote:
>>
>>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>>
>>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>>
>>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a
>>> single spice or herb and an
>>>
>>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>>
>>> If one posts a recipe they should
>>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>>>
>>> mike (piedmont)
>>> the practical bbq'r
>>
>> the one that gets my goat is 'one can of [whatnot].' um, what size can?
>> even the somewhat archaic '#2 can' would be helpful.
>
> Unless you live in a country which has never used "#2 can" as a quantity
> for anything. You're better off specifying weight or volume.
>
> Miche

yes, of course you're better off specifying. but at least '#2 can' you can
google. 'one can' doesn't help much.

your pal,
blake

On 02 May 2010 07:22:32 GMT, dsgood wrote:

>>In article >,
>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont wrote:
>>>
>>> > I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>> >
>>> > 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>> >
>>> > 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more
>>>than a > single spice or herb and an
>>> >
>>> > 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>> >
>>> > If one posts a recipe they should
>>> > help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>>> >
>>> > mike (piedmont)
>>> > the practical bbq'r
>>>
>>> the one that gets my goat is 'one can of [whatnot].' um, what
>>>size can? even the somewhat archaic '#2 can' would be helpful.
>>
>>Unless you live in a country which has never used "#2 can" as a
>>quantity for anything. You're better off specifying weight or volume.
>
> The recipes which annoy me aren't usually in this newsgroup but in
> cookbooks. Particularly old cookbooks.
>
> I remember a recipe which called for measuring with an empty can from a
> particular brand of coffee. A brand which had apparently once been
> common, but hadn't been for decades.
>
> And then there was the recipe which called for a dime's worth of
> hamburger.

i know i've referred to this before, but there was the story of someone
transcribing recipes from ma or grandma:

ma: then add some water...

transcriber: but ma, how *much* water?

ma: oh, about a mouthful.

that story just tickles the shit out of me for some reason.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 11:51:05 -0400, Nancy Young wrote:

> blake murphy wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 May 2010 09:22:13 -0500, Stu wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>>
>>> This is an international cooking newsgroup. You have google, use it.
>>>
>>
>> if you want your recipes to be widely used, maybe you shouldn't be
>> sending potential users to google. you could include a few words of
>> description, which might pique interest rather than 'screw that, i
>> don't know what that is.'
>
> That is one of the charms of rfc, comments about the recipes and
> ingredients. It's not that I mind googling, but I like to read the posters
> comments, too, about different ingredients.
>
> nancy

i just think you're better off risking providing too much information
rather than too little.

your pal,
blake

David Harmon wrote:
> wrote:
>>
>> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
>>poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from your
>>parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.
>
>Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people who can
>learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it, but for some of
>us it was a big advantage learning to read.

That remark is pure snobbishness... I've met many people who can
barely read/write, but can do... many rulers couldn't read, they had
scribes... mostly US Presidents rely heavily on speech writers. My
grandmother couldn't read but was an excellent cook, she also amassed
a fortune as a furrier, she owned a factory in Riga, Latvia that
produced the finast garments... she didn't need to know how to read,
only how to count... she was also a very astute business woman, WWl
caued her to leave everything behind, but in America it didn't take
her long to gain it all back and more, through restaurants and real
estate.... she was never an illegal, she came through Ellis Island,
and penniless.

That's not true where culinary ability is concerned... cooking is an
innate talent... the ability to read is totally superfluous, many of
the best cooks are functionally illiterate, in fact many are totally
illiterate, that's why so many illegals gravitate to culinary jobs,
many can't even read/write their native language they've received no
formal education whatsoever, they can't read a word but they can cook
like no tomorrow... it's a plus knowing how to read well too (for any
accupation, even ditch digging) but for cooking totally unnecessary...
there are many occupations where teh ability to read is unnecessry,
tailor, mason, glass blower, engraver, and many others. Cooking by
recipe is no different from riding a bicycle with training wheels.
Those with innate culinary talent can benefit greatly from observing
other so talented cooks but really all one so blessed need do is like
to eat good food, all they need do is look at it, feel it, smell it,
taste it and they can create it, usually improve upon it. Without
innate talent one can no better learn to cook from all the cooking
schools on the planet than one can become a concert pianist without
innate talent no matter how many lessons they take.

Just from reading your post it's patently obvious that you have as
much chance of becoming a cook as our mick has of winning a gold medal
in track at the regular Olympics... anyone pushing cookbooks as a
learning tool is a culinary cripple. If anything cookbooks/recipes
inhibit learning, with recipes the best one can do in a kitchen is mo
better than what someone can do in an art studio with a coloring book.

No creative talent requires the ability to read. In today's world
especially, formal education is greatly over rated... how do
unemployed lawyers earn a living.... unless they can get a job driving
the ambulance for their usual $200K/yr they're screwed.

On Sun, 2 May 2010 10:55:27 +0200, Giusi wrote:

> "blake murphy" ha scritto nel messaggio
> Stu wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 May 2010 06:12:08 -0700 (PDT), piedmont >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>>
>>> This is an international cooking newsgroup. You have google, use it.
>>>
>>
>> if you want your recipes to be widely used, maybe you shouldn't be
>> sending> potential users to google. you could include a few words of
>> description,
>> which might pique interest rather than 'screw that, i don't know what
>> that> is.'
>
> Blake, pardon me but what you are really saying is write your recipes to an
> American's comprehension. I would frankly rather Google this or that than
> have someone in Indonesia spend a week trying to figure out what I might
> know and/or finally give up and say the hell with it. The reader is the
> only one who knows his own level of ignorance. Most posters are freely
> offering their efforts in a genuinely generous way. Now some of you are
> lining up to say, "It's not enough!" Tough. Maybe I am inordinately
> adventurous (I am not) but I've no problem bablefishing or googling what I
> don't know.

well, you've almost certainly written more recipes or cooking instructions
than i have, so i should defer to your greater experience. i guess part of
it is knowing your audience, which isn't easy always easy on the 'net.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 16:53:46 +0100, Janet Baraclough wrote:

> The message >
> from blake murphy > contains these words:
>
>> On Sat, 01 May 2010 10:51:17 -0400, George wrote:
>
>>> I view recipes as a very loose framework and most dishes I prepare are
>>> to taste. That certainly isn't a shortcoming. You may like more or less
>>> garlic than me for example. Few recipes are proportion critical which
>>> means there is a lot of latitude to adjust per your preference.
>
>> all of us are not a comfortable with improvisation as you appear to be, at
>> least the first time through.
>
>> readers of any kind of instructions you write are likely to be in trouble
>> from time to time. be kind to them and be as explicit as possible.
>
> Why not start with a drawing of all saucepans and tools required, and
> some printy-out-sticky labels.
>
> Janet

well, sure. i'm not going to tell you how to chop your onions (although i
do know a dandy method if anyone's curious). there's a happy medium to be
struck here is all i'm saying.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
"James Silverton" > wrote:

> David wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 10:27:02 -0700:
>
> > On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> > > wrote,
> >> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
> >> poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from
> >> your parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.
>
> > Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people
> > who can learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it,
> > but for some of us it was a big advantage learning to read.
>
> I was never taught to cook by relatives except a little time spent
> watching my Mom make breakfast. However, like *most* chemists, I never
> found a recipe book hard to follow and later, my wife and I learned
> together, including watching Julia Child.

And Julia didn't learn to cook until she was 35, and she didn't learn to
cook from her mother, an heiress.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000, dsi1 wrote:

> On 5/1/2010 12:25 PM, piedmont wrote:
>> "dsi1" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> snip>>>
>> snip
>>>>> Effectively, this means that beginning cooks are mostly screwed as far
>>>>> as getting useful info on seasoning to taste from most experienced
>>>>> cooks. My advice is to get yourself educated pronto.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't have said it better.
>>>
>>> Oddly enough, neither could I. :-)
>>>
>> snip
>>>
>>
>> we're talking about sharing recipes! how can you share a recipe if you
>> cannot give accurate directions! Well lets see, toss in a bit of this a
>> tad of that, maybe some of this! You make no common snese.
>>
>
> I'm no elitist but I don't give out recipes for beginners. Not because I
> don't want to be a nice guy but because I'm incapable. I give out tips,
> methods, and ideas but hardly any recipes. No need to fret though, most
> everybody else does! If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
> poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from your
> parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.
>
> My recommendation for you is that when you give out your accurate
> directions, be sure to use standard punctuation, the SHIFT key, and your
> spell check. Thanks! :-)
>
> Your pal,
>
> Not that guy.

i agree, the most important part of a recipe is proper capitalization.

blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 21:07:53 GMT, l, not -l wrote:

> On 1-May-2010, dsi1 > wrote:
>
>> Effectively, this means that beginning cooks are mostly screwed as far
>> as getting useful info on seasoning to taste from most experienced
>> cooks. My advice is to get yourself educated pronto.
>
> I don't see how beginning cooks are screwed, nor do I see any difficulty in
> getting educated on seasoning "to taste". Put in some
> salt/pepper/garlic/whatever-the-recipe-says-to-taste, taste the result.
> Does it suit your taste? No - does it need more of xxxx; if so, add more
> xxxx 8-P . Does it have too much xxxx &-( ? Ok, now you're screwed -
> next time, add xxxx in smaller increments. How hard is that? 8-)

but some spice ingredients aren't added toward the end, but rather toward
the beginning. sort of difficult to 'adjust' those.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 2 May 2010 10:46:20 +0200, Giusi wrote:

> "blake murphy" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> George wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2010 9:12 AM, piedmont wrote:
>>>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a>>>
>>>> single spice or herb and an
>>>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>>> If one posts a recipe they should
>>>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>
>>> I view recipes as a very loose framework and most dishes I prepare are >>
>>> to taste. That certainly isn't a shortcoming. You may like more or less
>>> >> garlic than me for example. Few recipes are proportion critical
>>> which>> means there is a lot of latitude to adjust per your preference.
>>
>> all of us are not a comfortable with improvisation as you appear to be,
>> at> least the first time through.
>>
>> readers of any kind of instructions you write are likely to be in trouble>
>> from time to time. be kind to them and be as explicit as possible.
>
> People who really don't know about cooking probably should look things up as
> they run into them and ask intelligent questions when Googling doesn't
> explain it. This is a cooking group and presupposes that one understands
> cooking. If I went to a nuclear power plant building group I'd keep my
> browser open to a search page, at least for a while. It happens that I do
> know quite a lot about what people do not know about cookery, but I also
> don't want to bore everyone to tears explaining what finely minced means
> versus chopped or diced. If someone needed to ask, I'd answer... wouldn't
> you?

sure, of course. but what about all the poor shlubs reading r.f.c. from an
aggregation site? they're up doo-doo creek.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 10:09:13 -0700 (PDT), none of your business wrote:

> On May 1, 9:12*am, piedmont > wrote:
>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>
>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>
>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a
>> single spice or herb and an
>>
>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>
>> If one posts a recipe they should
>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>>
>> mike (piedmont)
>> the practical bbq'r
>
> First of all, i don't use recipes.
> I cook.
> Measuring is for baking.
>
> 2nd of all. I made it the way I like it. If you make whatever it is,
> you're eating it, not me.
> So if I'm sharing the details of how I created a dish, with the
> suggestion that you try it, I don't care how much rosemary you add.
> You're eating it. Now, I would probably want to know that you didn't
> have rosemary, so you used (whatever), because that's another idea for
> me that maybe I didn't think of.
>
> But you're eating whatever it is, so you should make it the way YOU
> like it.

well, that's part of what i'm saying. if you just say to use an ingredient
'to taste,' that really doesn't say how *you* like it. presumably you've
made the dish in question, and liked it, otherwise why post it?

*of course* people are free to dick around with the recipe before or after
making it for the first time, but why be shy about the amount *you* use?

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:12:54 -0400, piedmont wrote:

> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>> piedmont > wrote:
>>
>>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>
>> A peeve of mine is when people post more than one peeve and call it a
>> pet peeve, which is, by definition, a single thing.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>
> Ok, pet peeve's, happy!

i got my pet peeve from a shelter.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 01 May 2010 17:03:52 -0700, Terry Pulliam Burd wrote:

> On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:17:06 -0400, "piedmont" >
> wrote:
>
>>Exactly , so it should be nice not to assume an ingredient were commonly
>>available. Corn ok, potato ok, Sylvia's Seasoned Salt, welll may not be
>>available in my local so then, what do I use now? Get it?
>
> I get it, but I don't know why this should be such an obstacle. Google
> [the following is, obviously, hypothetical] "Sylvia's Seasoned Salt,"
> which would bring up places to buy it and those places will likely
> list the ingredients, and it might also tell you that "Sylvia's
> Seasoned Salt" is distributed by Salt Purveyors, LLC. Then you learn
> that Salt Purveyors, LLC has a website with drop down menu that will
> allow you to select your state/region and the website will also tell
> you where to go to buy "Sylvia's Seasoned Salt" and also informs you
> that "Sylvia's Seasoned Salt" is called "Marvin's Special Salt" in the
> northeast and "Stan's Swell Salt" in the south and so on and so forth.
>
> And all that googling will take alot longer than it did for me to
> keyboard this post.
>
> Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd

but wait! i googled "Stan's Swell Salt" and all that came back were
references to 'satan's swell salt' and 'stalin's swell salt'! now i'm
afraid to do anything!

on the other hand, 'stan and ollie's swell salt' i could totally get
behind.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 01 May 2010 15:42:27 -0700, Joseph Littleshoes wrote:

> piedmont wrote:
>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>
>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>
>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a
>> single spice or herb and an
>>
>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>
>> If one posts a recipe they should
>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>>
>> mike (piedmont)
>> the practical bbq'r
>
> Sir.
>
> This is the metaphorical back fence, which is proverbially gossiped
> over, not a professorial lecture hall, not only do you have to put up
> with slang and vernacular including folk usages but accent and insanity
> as well.
>
> To complain that gossip and conversation is not structured to your
> particular style manual is, i fear, a futile task. And one i can not
> encourage.

there is that.

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 18:38:46 -0700, Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> Mike wrote:
>
>> I have a pet peeve about recipes,
>>
>> 01. Ingredients that aren't commonly known and
>>
>> 02. ingredients that are local commercial brands that are more than a
>> single spice or herb and an
>>
>> 03. ingredient without quantity or to taste .
>>
>> If one posts a recipe they should
>> help by clarifying these short comings in notes at the start.
>
> I apologize for failing to meet your standards when I post recipes, and
> henceforth I will endeavor to go to no more trouble than heretofore.
>
> Bob

but what have you done for me lately?

your pal,
blake

On Sat, 1 May 2010 23:54:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

>>
>> 03. *"To taste" is pretty self explanatory. * *If it is an ingredient I
>> don't like, I omit or use a tiny pinch, but ones I like I tend to add more
>> and adjust if needed. *It just does not seem to be a problem for anyone that
>> has tasted a particular ingredient.
>
> Personally, I think it would be nice to give a range or starting
> portion. It could be a tiny pinch or a tablespoon, or more, depending
> on what the recipe is, and what ingredient is being discussed.
>
> For example, when I give my recipe for smoked salmon dip, I list a
> smaller amount of liquid smoke with a note, add more if you prefer it
> stronger (as I usually do).

that's the sort of thing i was referring to as preferring.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 2 May 2010 14:19:52 +0100, Janet Baraclough wrote:

> The message >
> from " > contains
> these words:
>
>> Personally, I think it would be nice to give a range or starting
>> portion. It could be a tiny pinch or a tablespoon, or more, depending
>> on what the recipe is, and what ingredient is being discussed.
>
>> For example, when I give my recipe for smoked salmon dip, I list a
>> smaller amount of liquid smoke with a note, add more if you prefer it
>> stronger (as I usually do).
>
> Holy cow. If I saw a recipe for smoked salmon dip that included liquid
> smoke, I'd know to avoid it completely.
>
> Janet

but at least you'd have an idea as to the amount of liquid smoke you're
avoiding.

your pal,
blake

>
>"dsgood" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>And then there was the recipe which called for a dime's worth of>
>>hamburger.
>
>Shopping with a microscope! Nice name for a new foodtv show, eh?

The cookbook had been printed several decades before I read it, of
course.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)

>
>On 2-May-2010, sf > wrote:
>
>> It's confusing! What about that corn flour/corn starch thing?
>>Then you've got to figure out what they mean when they say
>>"catsup".
>
>OMG, ketchup is a huge problem. Should I use Heinz (US or UK
>version), Hunts, Del Monte or Brooks. They are so different, the
>recipe will be a total disaster if I pick the wrong one.

Oh, just use banana catsup.

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)

> If one of the ingredients is "a mystery" to you, you're unlikely to
>already have it in your home kitchen, ready to cook with..

Unless it's a different name for something you DO have in your kitchen.

Not an ingredient, but... When I first came to the Twin Cities, I had
difficulty in ordering tea in restaurants. The waitronette would ask
what kind of tea I wanted, and would not understand "regular tea."
Eventually, I learned that I needed to ask for "black tea."

--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)

>On 5/2/2010 7:27 AM, David Harmon wrote:
>>On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
> wrote,
>>> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
>>>poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from your
>>>parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.
>>
>>Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people who
>>can learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it, but for
>>some of us it was a big advantage learning to read.
>
>Are you suggesting that book learning is more effective than
>practical experience?

Read what he said: "Different people learn differently."


--
Dan Goodman
"I have always depended on the kindness of stranglers."
Tennessee Williams, A Streetcar Named Expire
Journal dsgood.dreamwidth.org (livejournal.com, insanejournal.com)

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>> In much of Europe corn
>> means whatever grain is normally grown there, ears of corn means wheat in
>> many places.


>
> I did not know about the corn reference, thanks! So what do they call
> "corn" when being specific?


Probably "maize". Corn seems to be generic for grain in many places.

gloria p

On 5/2/2010 12:04 PM, dsgood wrote:
>
>> On 5/2/2010 7:27 AM, David Harmon wrote:
>>> On Sat, 01 May 2010 12:45:06 -1000 in rec.food.cooking, dsi1
>>> > wrote,
>>>> If you want to get down to the bone, a recipe is a
>>>> poor way to learn. The best way is to learn to cook is from your
>>>> parents, your aunts, and uncles at an early age.
>>>
>>> Different people learn differently, so don't knock the people who
>>> can learn from books and recipes. You may not realize it, but for
>>> some of us it was a big advantage learning to read.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that book learning is more effective than
>> practical experience?
>
> Read what he said: "Different people learn differently."

You're right that people have neurological differences that will affect
how they learn stuff. We all know this. However, as a practical matter,
we don't get to choose whether we learn from a parent, book, or school.
I learned from books and experimenting and cooking. I had no teacher. My
simple statement was that it's better to have a mentor. Disagree with me
if you like. My guess is that someone that did learn one-to-one from an
actual human would find that to be an invaluable experience.

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sat, 1 May 2010 21:07:53 GMT, l, not -l wrote:
>
> > On 1-May-2010, dsi1 > wrote:
> >
> >> Effectively, this means that beginning cooks are mostly screwed as far
> >> as getting useful info on seasoning to taste from most experienced
> >> cooks. My advice is to get yourself educated pronto.
> >
> > I don't see how beginning cooks are screwed, nor do I see any difficulty in
> > getting educated on seasoning "to taste". Put in some
> > salt/pepper/garlic/whatever-the-recipe-says-to-taste, taste the result.
> > Does it suit your taste? No - does it need more of xxxx; if so, add more
> > xxxx 8-P . Does it have too much xxxx &-( ? Ok, now you're screwed -
> > next time, add xxxx in smaller increments. How hard is that? 8-)
>
> but some spice ingredients aren't added toward the end, but rather toward
> the beginning. sort of difficult to 'adjust' those.

Well, you started it, I'll add some more. I'm sure there are an almost
unlimited number, though:

2. sausage from scratch, pretty frustrating to have to fry up a patty
every time you make a small change, better to start off with an idea

3. meatloaf, I can't imagine tasting any time except afterwards

4. cake, or pretty much any kind of baking, will end up in the trash if
very far off, can't adjust after it goes in the oven

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

George wrote:
> On 5/2/2010 9:19 AM, Janet Baraclough wrote:
>> The
>> >
>> from "<friesian@zoocrewphoto. com> contains
>> these words:
>>
>>> Personally, I think it would be nice to give a range or starting
>>> portion. It could be a tiny pinch or a tablespoon, or more, depending
>>> on what the recipe is, and what ingredient is being discussed.
>>
>>> For example, when I give my recipe for smoked salmon dip, I list a
>>> smaller amount of liquid smoke with a note, add more if you prefer it
>>> stronger (as I usually do).
>>
>> Holy cow. If I saw a recipe for smoked salmon dip that included liquid
>> smoke, I'd know to avoid it completely.
>>
>> Janet
>
> I would substitute an envelope of onion soup mix...


Don't forget the tbsp of MSG.

gloria p