On 2010-02-10, James Silverton wrote:

> I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
> supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
> (possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
> century.

ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
remember, I'll look it up later).

Have you come across recipes that specify MSG (I haven't), or do you
use it at your own discretion? (Just curious.)


--
hmmmm: sounds like the same DLL hell problem my cousin had. try
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Adam Funk wrote:
>
> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
> remember, I'll look it up later).

As opposed to what? MSG made the old-fashioned way,
by hand? Artisan MSG? There ain't no such thing!

MSG production began about 100 years ago in Japan
when a chemistry professor isolated MSG from a type
of seaweed known for its flavor-enhancing effects.
The company he started still exists, Ajinomoto.

For a long time, it was a by-product of beet sugar
production -- Steffen process waste is rich in MSG.
But I believe that these days it's all made by
bacterial fermentation. (Technically, that's not
vegan because bacteria are animals in the old
two-kingdom classification system. They lack
cell walls.)

On 2010-02-13, Mark Thorson wrote:

> Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
>> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
>> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
>> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
>> remember, I'll look it up later).
>
> As opposed to what? MSG made the old-fashioned way,
> by hand? Artisan MSG? There ain't no such thing!

As opposed to traditional ingredients that contain MSG and related
flavourings.

> MSG production began about 100 years ago in Japan
> when a chemistry professor isolated MSG from a type
> of seaweed known for its flavor-enhancing effects.
> The company he started still exists, Ajinomoto.

The "Seaweed and the Original MSG" box on p.342 of _On Food and
Cooking_ (2nd edn) talks about Ikeda's discovery of MSG in kombu and
exposition of "umami", then the discovery of IMP in cured skipjack
tuna, then GMP in shiitake mushrooms. Other bits of the book explain
the elaborate traditional Japanese methods for making kombu and this
cured tuna. He mentions Ajinomoto, then "Chinese restaurant syndrome"
and the studies that discredited this, and concludes this box as
follows:

The most unfortunate aspect of the MSG saga is how it has been
exploited to provide a cheap, one-dimensional substitute for real
and remarkable foods. As Fuchsia Dunlop writes in her book on
Sichuan cooking, _Land of Plenty_,

It is a bitter irony that in China of all places, where chefs
have spent centuries developing the most sophisticated culinary
techniques, this mass-produced white power should have been given
the name _wei jing_, "the essence of flavor."

(Of course, you could make the same argument about salt, or liquid
smoke (which I used to use mainly in homebrewing), or pre-ground
pepper, I guess. Next time I see MSG powder in a Chinese grocery, I'm
going to try it.)

> For a long time, it was a by-product of beet sugar production --
> Steffen process waste is rich in MSG. But I believe that these days
> it's all made by bacterial fermentation. (Technically, that's not
> vegan because bacteria are animals in the old two-kingdom
> classification system. They lack cell walls.)

I think everything edible on the planet has bacteria on the surface
that you either wash off, kill by cooking, or eat. That doesn't leave
much. Somehow I doubt that vegans use the old two-kingdom system!


--
I spend almost as much time figuring out what's wrong with my computer
as I do actually using it. Networked software, especially, requires
frequent updates and maintenance, all of which gets in the way of
doing routine work. (Stoll 1995)

"Adam Funk" wrote
> James Silverton wrote:

>> I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
>> supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
>> (possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
>> century.

I think it's aji-no-moto? I'd check but my current tin is from China,
Ve-Tsin. Pretty gold tin holder. Will last me years.

> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
> remember, I'll look it up later).

> Have you come across recipes that specify MSG (I haven't), or do you
> use it at your own discretion? (Just curious.)

I have recipes that call for it as well as just knowing when a pinch or so
will enhance something. It adds a subtle boost to many savory sauces.
Also, used in correct amounts, can help you reduce sodium intake because
it's lower than pure salt and yet provides something else so you don't need
as much salt.