On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 20:18:08 -0800, Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 13:48:38 -0800, Ranee at Arabian Knits wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> Doug Freyburger > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sweet is also both a taste and an
>>>> item.
>>>
>>> Not quite. Table salt is NaCl. Sweet has quite a range from
>>> strawberries to ice cream to table sugar and more. You couldn't put
>>> together a tube of sweet any more than you could put together a tube of
>>> sour.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ranee @ Arabian Knits
>>
>> some would say citric acid (a.k.a. sour salt) would be a stand-in for your
>> hypothetical sour paste.
>
> Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
> keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
> like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
> tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
> table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
> and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
> in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
> glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:

i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess anchovy paste
is cheaper and give much the same effect. or the powdered m.s.g.

your pal,
blake

In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> > Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
> > keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
> > like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
> > tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
> > table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
> > and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
> > in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
> > glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:
>
> i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess anchovy paste
> is cheaper and give much the same effect. or the powdered m.s.g.
>
> your pal,
> blake

Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
it to for sure.

So, a healthier MSG substitute? I doubt the sodium content would be any
lower. <g>
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

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On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 16:52:22 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> blake murphy > wrote:
>
>>> Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common. Some people
>>> keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add some "sour" to taste, just
>>> like many people keep a bowl of sugar on the table to add to coffee,
>>> tea, cereal or whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
>>> table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so it is a sweet
>>> and sour condiment. I'm confused about this Umami paste. A scientist
>>> in Japan already isolated a primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium
>>> glutamate, or MSG. This process of extraction was patented in 1909:
>>
>> i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess anchovy paste
>> is cheaper and give much the same effect. or the powdered m.s.g.
>>
>> your pal,
>> blake
>
> Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
> the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
> it to for sure.
>
> So, a healthier MSG substitute? I doubt the sodium content would be any
> lower. <g>

probably not. but the sodium load in m.s.g. (especially in the small
quantities a home cook would use) isn't that great.

as far as i can determine (google is clogged with references from 'sodium
kills' or 'm.s.g. maims' sites so actual facts seem hard to come by - most
just say 'don't eat the following things, they're bad'), table salt is 40%
sodium:

<http://www.diturophotography.com/nutrition/pages/salt.htm>

....and m.s.g. is about 21%:

<http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17608.cfm>

given that most recipes i've seen call for much greater quantities of salt
than for m.s.g. (though they often call for soy sauce as well), i'm not
sure a 'lower-sodium' substitute is even worth searching for.

but i don't have a dog in this fight. my blood pressure is on the low side
(despite smoking like a fiend), and at one time the doc said my blood
concentration of sodium was low.

your pal,
blake

blake wrote on Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:23:53 -0500:

>> In article >,
>> blake murphy > wrote:
>>
>>>> Pretty much any acid is sour. Vinegar is pretty common.
>>>> Some people keep a bottle of vinegar on the table to add
>>>> some "sour" to taste, just like many people keep a bowl of
>>>> sugar on the table to add to coffee, tea, cereal or
>>>> whatever. Many people keep a bottle of ketchup on the
>>>> table, too. That has a lot of sugar and some vinegar, so
>>>> it is a sweet and sour condiment. I'm confused about this
>>>> Umami paste. A scientist in Japan already isolated a
>>>> primary Umami flavor, know as monosodium glutamate, or MSG.
>>>> This process of extraction was patented in 1909:
>>>
>>> i have no idea of the cost of the umami paste, but i'd guess
>>> anchovy paste is cheaper and give much the same effect. or
>>> the powdered m.s.g.
>>>
>>> your pal,
>>> blake
>>
>> Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to
>> cook with the canned ones. It does add a "something savory"
>> to anything you add it to for sure.
>>
>> So, a healthier MSG substitute? I doubt the sodium content
>> would be any lower. <g>

> probably not. but the sodium load in m.s.g. (especially in
> the small quantities a home cook would use) isn't that great.

> as far as i can determine (google is clogged with references
> from 'sodium kills' or 'm.s.g. maims' sites so actual facts
> seem hard to come by - most just say 'don't eat the following
> things, they're bad'), table salt is 40% sodium:

> <http://www.diturophotography.com/nutrition/pages/salt.htm>

> ...and m.s.g. is about 21%:

> <http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_17608.cfm>

> given that most recipes i've seen call for much greater
> quantities of salt than for m.s.g. (though they often call for
> soy sauce as well), i'm not sure a 'lower-sodium' substitute
> is even worth searching for.

> but i don't have a dog in this fight. my blood pressure is on
> the low side (despite smoking like a fiend), and at one time
> the doc said my blood concentration of sodium was low.

I'll just mention again that MSG itself is not present in food even if
you sprinkle some on it. What is there is glutamate ions and glutamic
acid is a major component of proteins from which it released by cooking.
I wonder if the "slow food" gang realize how much glutamate they are
obtaining by using a crock pot.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2010-02-12, Omelet wrote:

> Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
> the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
> it to for sure.

The only problem with the anchovies I use (in glass jars) is that they
include tiny bones. I guess the bones in canned ones are softer?


--
Oh, I am just a student, sir, and I only want to learn
But it's hard to read through the rising smoke
of the books that you want to burn
[Phil Ochs]

"Adam Funk" > wrote in message ...
| On 2010-02-12, Omelet wrote:
|
| > Never thought of trying anchovie paste. I'm just learning to cook with
| > the canned ones. It does add a "something savory" to anything you add
| > it to for sure.
|
| The only problem with the anchovies I use (in glass jars) is that they
| include tiny bones. I guess the bones in canned ones are softer?

Not in my experience. I don't know of any way to tell whether
the canned ones or the jarred ones are softer, harder, bonier
or less bony. Total crap shoot, but they all taste pretty much
the same. If the bones bother you (they bother me occasionally)
use the tube paste; pretty much the same; the two ones around
here are Roland and Giovanni's; the Roland is considerably purer.

pavane