Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:

> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
> --
Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
mushrooms are high on glutamate.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

James Silverton wrote:
>
> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> mushrooms are high on glutamate.

If I recall correctly, the flavor enhancer in mushrooms
is 5'-guanosine monophosphate, a.k.a. disodium guanylate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_guanylate

In article >, says...
>
> James Silverton wrote:
> >
> > Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> > increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> > special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> > mushrooms are high on glutamate.
>
> If I recall correctly, the flavor enhancer in mushrooms
> is 5'-guanosine monophosphate, a.k.a. disodium guanylate.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_guanylate

I like to tease my kids and tell them I added Umami to a dish.. Then
they know it's time to dig out the mushrooms

I know, I know... I am stupid and the more enlightened here will
probably have to KF me for that comment

Scotty

James Silverton wrote:
> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>
>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>> --
>
> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> mushrooms are high on glutamate.

I thought Unami was the Japanese combo of equal parts soy sauce, sesame
oil and sake?

From the recommended web site describing the ingredients of the "Unami"
sauce:

"Taste No. 5 combines umami-rich Italian ingredients such as tomato,
Parmesan cheese and porcini mushrooms into a single paste that can be
rubbed, squeezed or spread."

I have spiced up the soy sauce, sake & sesame oil with various other
herbs and spices such as ginger, garlic, chinese 5 spices, & etc. but
the basic sauce is very good and very versatile.

--

Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq.

Domine, dirige nos.

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On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:46:04 -0800, Mr. Joseph Littleshoes Esq. wrote:

> James Silverton wrote:
>> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>>
>>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>>> --
>>
>> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
>> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
>> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
>> mushrooms are high on glutamate.
>
> I thought Unami was the Japanese combo of equal parts soy sauce, sesame
> oil and sake?
>
> From the recommended web site describing the ingredients of the "Unami"
> sauce:
>
> "Taste No. 5 combines umami-rich Italian ingredients such as tomato,
> Parmesan cheese and porcini mushrooms into a single paste that can be
> rubbed, squeezed or spread."
>
> I have spiced up the soy sauce, sake & sesame oil with various other
> herbs and spices such as ginger, garlic, chinese 5 spices, & etc. but
> the basic sauce is very good and very versatile.

in the case of your mixture, the soy sauce would contain the umami (and
other flavors). the additional ingredients would add to that.

your pal,
blake

On 2010-02-10, James Silverton wrote:

> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>
>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger paste.
>> --
> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is usually
> increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there is paste made from
> special mushrooms that is supposed to impart umami. Probably the
> mushrooms are high on glutamate.

You can sometimes buy MSG itself retail. (Well, I've seen it in
Chinese groceries.)


--
History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of
urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.
(Thurgood Marshall)

Adam wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:58:06 +0000:

>> Elder wrote on Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:28:31 -0000:
>>
>>> Yes, seen on the BBC breakfast news this morning, from next
>>> week, people in the UK will be able to buy tubes of Umami
>>> paste like you can with tomato paste and garlic/ginger
>>> paste. --
>> Is this for real? Umami is the fifth sense of taste and is
>> usually increased with MSG. However, I have heard that there
>> is paste made from special mushrooms that is supposed to
>> impart umami. Probably the mushrooms are high on glutamate.

> You can sometimes buy MSG itself retail. (Well, I've seen it
> in Chinese groceries.)

I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
(possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
century.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2010-02-10, James Silverton wrote:

> I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
> supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
> (possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
> century.

ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
remember, I'll look it up later).

Have you come across recipes that specify MSG (I haven't), or do you
use it at your own discretion? (Just curious.)


--
hmmmm: sounds like the same DLL hell problem my cousin had. try
deleting all DLLs in your Windows/system32 directory and see what
happens. (Bryce Utting)

Adam Funk wrote:
>
> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
> remember, I'll look it up later).

As opposed to what? MSG made the old-fashioned way,
by hand? Artisan MSG? There ain't no such thing!

MSG production began about 100 years ago in Japan
when a chemistry professor isolated MSG from a type
of seaweed known for its flavor-enhancing effects.
The company he started still exists, Ajinomoto.

For a long time, it was a by-product of beet sugar
production -- Steffen process waste is rich in MSG.
But I believe that these days it's all made by
bacterial fermentation. (Technically, that's not
vegan because bacteria are animals in the old
two-kingdom classification system. They lack
cell walls.)

On 2010-02-13, Mark Thorson wrote:

> Adam Funk wrote:
>>
>> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
>> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
>> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
>> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
>> remember, I'll look it up later).
>
> As opposed to what? MSG made the old-fashioned way,
> by hand? Artisan MSG? There ain't no such thing!

As opposed to traditional ingredients that contain MSG and related
flavourings.

> MSG production began about 100 years ago in Japan
> when a chemistry professor isolated MSG from a type
> of seaweed known for its flavor-enhancing effects.
> The company he started still exists, Ajinomoto.

The "Seaweed and the Original MSG" box on p.342 of _On Food and
Cooking_ (2nd edn) talks about Ikeda's discovery of MSG in kombu and
exposition of "umami", then the discovery of IMP in cured skipjack
tuna, then GMP in shiitake mushrooms. Other bits of the book explain
the elaborate traditional Japanese methods for making kombu and this
cured tuna. He mentions Ajinomoto, then "Chinese restaurant syndrome"
and the studies that discredited this, and concludes this box as
follows:

The most unfortunate aspect of the MSG saga is how it has been
exploited to provide a cheap, one-dimensional substitute for real
and remarkable foods. As Fuchsia Dunlop writes in her book on
Sichuan cooking, _Land of Plenty_,

It is a bitter irony that in China of all places, where chefs
have spent centuries developing the most sophisticated culinary
techniques, this mass-produced white power should have been given
the name _wei jing_, "the essence of flavor."

(Of course, you could make the same argument about salt, or liquid
smoke (which I used to use mainly in homebrewing), or pre-ground
pepper, I guess. Next time I see MSG powder in a Chinese grocery, I'm
going to try it.)

> For a long time, it was a by-product of beet sugar production --
> Steffen process waste is rich in MSG. But I believe that these days
> it's all made by bacterial fermentation. (Technically, that's not
> vegan because bacteria are animals in the old two-kingdom
> classification system. They lack cell walls.)

I think everything edible on the planet has bacteria on the surface
that you either wash off, kill by cooking, or eat. That doesn't leave
much. Somehow I doubt that vegans use the old two-kingdom system!


--
I spend almost as much time figuring out what's wrong with my computer
as I do actually using it. Networked software, especially, requires
frequent updates and maintenance, all of which gets in the way of
doing routine work. (Stoll 1995)

"Adam Funk" wrote
> James Silverton wrote:

>> I can and do buy MSG, usually as Japanese Aji-No-Motu, in my Chinese
>> supermarket. I believe it is made in factories by fermentation of fungi
>> (possibly) and the process was invented at the beginning of the last
>> century.

I think it's aji-no-moto? I'd check but my current tin is from China,
Ve-Tsin. Pretty gold tin holder. Will last me years.

> ISTR that Harold McGee says something slightly derogatory about modern
> MSG production, to the effect that "the essence of flavour" (I think
> that's a literal translation from Chinese or Japanese) is now cranked
> out industrially. But I can't remember what process he meant (if I
> remember, I'll look it up later).

> Have you come across recipes that specify MSG (I haven't), or do you
> use it at your own discretion? (Just curious.)

I have recipes that call for it as well as just knowing when a pinch or so
will enhance something. It adds a subtle boost to many savory sauces.
Also, used in correct amounts, can help you reduce sodium intake because
it's lower than pure salt and yet provides something else so you don't need
as much salt.

In article >,
Adam Funk > wrote:

> You can sometimes buy MSG itself retail. (Well, I've seen it in
> Chinese groceries.)

MSG, as everyone here probably already knows, is the primary ingredient
in many spice mixes and flavor enhancing products. Accent is probably
the most famous of these.

The only one that we buy is Sazon Goya, because we have a really good
recipe for Cuban-style black beans and rice that calls for it.

--
Julian Vrieslander