In article > ,
"Peter Aitken" > wrote:

> The browning is important because the high heat causes the formation of many
> flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much tastier end
> product. Do not skip it!

Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the *last* step, so you
get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat "damaged"
from the high heat.

--
to respond (OT only), change "spamless.invalid" to "optonline.net"

<http://www.thecoffeefaq.com/>

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>
> > The browning is important because the high heat causes the formation of
many
> > flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much tastier
end
> > product. Do not skip it!
>
> Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the *last* step, so you
> get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat "damaged"
> from the high heat.
>

But the point, which you obviously missed, is that you do *not* lose
moisture from browned meat. In any case, browning as a last step will
prevent the flavors created from being part of the sauce.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Harlan Messinger wrote:
>
> > An article in this month's Gourmet discusses Harold McGee, author of
> > "On Food and Cooking", which many restaurant kitchens, reportedly, use
> > as a bible, and which is coming out in an entirely reworked edition
> > next month. According to the article, "the original [edition] is
> > renowned for having destroyed the myth, popularized in the mid-1800s
> > by German chemist Justus von Liebig, that searing meat would seal in
> > its juices."
> >
> > I've made any number of current recipes that call for browning meat
> > before braising or stewing it. Is McGee mistaken? Are the authors of
> > these recipes out of touch with modern science on the subject? Is the
> > pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
> > juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
> > from now on?
>
> Any method that brings heat to meat will cause loss of moisture.
> Protein shrinks and releases its captive water-based juices. Searing
> is for developing the Maillard reactions that add that wonderful depth
> of flavor. There is no sealing of juices no matter the method, tools,
> coatings or anything else is brought to bear. Cooking meat releases
> juices.
>
> You'll still see recipes and even live cooks talking about sealing in
> the juices. When that happens, you know what you're dealing with.

OK, thanks, all!

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Scott" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article > ,
> > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> >
> > > The browning is important because the high heat causes the
> > > formation of
> many
> > > flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much
> > > tastier
> end
> > > product. Do not skip it!
> >
> > Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the last step, so you
> > get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat
> > "damaged" from the high heat.
> >
>
> But the point, which you obviously missed, is that you do not lose
> moisture from browned meat. In any case, browning as a last step will
> prevent the flavors created from being part of the sauce.


It didn't address searing as in using a hot pan, but rather the
frequent suggestion of starting with a very hot oven to brown the
outside, then lowering the temp.

Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to start
in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside in a hot
oven.



Brian

"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> > "Scott" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article > ,
> > > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The browning is important because the high heat causes the
> > > > formation of
> > many
> > > > flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much
> > > > tastier
> > end
> > > > product. Do not skip it!
> > >
> > > Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the last step, so you
> > > get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat
> > > "damaged" from the high heat.
> > >
> >
> > But the point, which you obviously missed, is that you do not lose
> > moisture from browned meat. In any case, browning as a last step will
> > prevent the flavors created from being part of the sauce.
>
>
> It didn't address searing as in using a hot pan, but rather the
> frequent suggestion of starting with a very hot oven to brown the
> outside, then lowering the temp.
>
> Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to start
> in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside in a hot
> oven.
>

OK, that makes more sense to me! I have also seen recipes where you brown a
roast in a pan then finish it in a low oven - works great for standing rib
roast.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Default User" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> > "Scott" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article > ,
> > > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The browning is important because the high heat causes the
> > > > formation of
> > many
> > > > flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much
> > > > tastier
> > end
> > > > product. Do not skip it!
> > >
> > > Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the last step, so you
> > > get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat
> > > "damaged" from the high heat.
> > >
> >
> > But the point, which you obviously missed, is that you do not lose
> > moisture from browned meat. In any case, browning as a last step will
> > prevent the flavors created from being part of the sauce.
>
>
> It didn't address searing as in using a hot pan, but rather the
> frequent suggestion of starting with a very hot oven to brown the
> outside, then lowering the temp.
>
> Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to start
> in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside in a hot
> oven.
>

OK, that makes more sense to me! I have also seen recipes where you brown a
roast in a pan then finish it in a low oven - works great for standing rib
roast.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

at Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:29:36 GMT in >,
lid (Default User) wrote :

>Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>> "Scott" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article > ,
>> > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The browning is important because the high heat causes the
>> > > formation of many
>> > > flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much
>> > > tastier end product. Do not skip it!
>> >
>> > Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the last step, so you
>> > get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat
>> > "damaged" from the high heat.
>>
>> But the point, which you obviously missed, is that you do not lose
>> moisture from browned meat. ...
> ...
>Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to start
>in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside in a hot
>oven.

I've experimented all 3 ways and at least to my taste, starting in the high
oven is the best, flavour-wise. Starting at low heat produced to me
inferiour, more jelly-like internal texture and a mild flavour. Now, I
generally cook beef and lamb very rare indeed, pork to the precise point
where it's not quite pink on the inside but not at all dry, chicken and
turkey to about "medium-well", i.e. no bloodiness, fully firmed up flesh,
but not really well done, goose and duck a little more well-done than
chicken and turkey.

In addition to better flavour development, the high-heat-at-the-beginning
method always yielded better gravy, as I'd expect, since it would
caramelise the early drippings and lead to better overall flavour in the
gravy.

As far as moisture loss, I didn't notice any of the 3 methods to be
unacceptable. High heat at the beginning does not seem to cause appreciably
greater loss of moisture. One part of the procedure that I notice a lot of
people missing, and that *could* account for extra loss of moisture, is
opening the oven door when you lower the temperature so that the oven will
drop rapidly to the new setting. Otherwise you might have an extended
period when the oven was actually far hotter than your lowered setting
because with the door not open, it takes a while for it to cool down. This
is especially true if you have a big piece of meat.

Another factor could be using low-grade meat, particularly very lean pork,
lamb, and beef. Unfortunately, a very large percentage of the meat
typically available falls into this class, especially pork and beef. In
beef, for instance, USDA Select IMHO means USDA Reject. Pork can be even
worse - a lot of it is water-injected and of what's left a lot of *that* is
far too lean. Note that many cheap meats these days are water-injected,
which bulks up the volume and weight but leads to atrocious water loss in
cooking. So it pays to seek out somewhere where you can get quality meat.
Expect to pay quite a bit more for it, and do so gladly.

Finally, large, commercial ovens might cause more moisture loss, because
the greater internal volume means both more heat capacity (thus, at the
same *temperature*, there's more *heat* in the oven, and thus an equal-
sized piece of meat would cook faster), and greater air circulation, which
again transports moisture away through evaporation.
--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

at Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:29:36 GMT in >,
lid (Default User) wrote :

>Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>> "Scott" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article > ,
>> > "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>> >
>> > > The browning is important because the high heat causes the
>> > > formation of many
>> > > flavor compunds in the surface of the meat, resulting in a much
>> > > tastier end product. Do not skip it!
>> >
>> > Alton Brown's response was to sear the meat as the last step, so you
>> > get the flavor, but don't continue to lose moisture from meat
>> > "damaged" from the high heat.
>>
>> But the point, which you obviously missed, is that you do not lose
>> moisture from browned meat. ...
> ...
>Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to start
>in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside in a hot
>oven.

I've experimented all 3 ways and at least to my taste, starting in the high
oven is the best, flavour-wise. Starting at low heat produced to me
inferiour, more jelly-like internal texture and a mild flavour. Now, I
generally cook beef and lamb very rare indeed, pork to the precise point
where it's not quite pink on the inside but not at all dry, chicken and
turkey to about "medium-well", i.e. no bloodiness, fully firmed up flesh,
but not really well done, goose and duck a little more well-done than
chicken and turkey.

In addition to better flavour development, the high-heat-at-the-beginning
method always yielded better gravy, as I'd expect, since it would
caramelise the early drippings and lead to better overall flavour in the
gravy.

As far as moisture loss, I didn't notice any of the 3 methods to be
unacceptable. High heat at the beginning does not seem to cause appreciably
greater loss of moisture. One part of the procedure that I notice a lot of
people missing, and that *could* account for extra loss of moisture, is
opening the oven door when you lower the temperature so that the oven will
drop rapidly to the new setting. Otherwise you might have an extended
period when the oven was actually far hotter than your lowered setting
because with the door not open, it takes a while for it to cool down. This
is especially true if you have a big piece of meat.

Another factor could be using low-grade meat, particularly very lean pork,
lamb, and beef. Unfortunately, a very large percentage of the meat
typically available falls into this class, especially pork and beef. In
beef, for instance, USDA Select IMHO means USDA Reject. Pork can be even
worse - a lot of it is water-injected and of what's left a lot of *that* is
far too lean. Note that many cheap meats these days are water-injected,
which bulks up the volume and weight but leads to atrocious water loss in
cooking. So it pays to seek out somewhere where you can get quality meat.
Expect to pay quite a bit more for it, and do so gladly.

Finally, large, commercial ovens might cause more moisture loss, because
the greater internal volume means both more heat capacity (thus, at the
same *temperature*, there's more *heat* in the oven, and thus an equal-
sized piece of meat would cook faster), and greater air circulation, which
again transports moisture away through evaporation.
--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...

> > Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to
> > start in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside
> > in a hot oven.
> >
>
> OK, that makes more sense to me! I have also seen recipes where you
> brown a roast in a pan then finish it in a low oven - works great for
> standing rib roast.

As have I. I almost always do that for pot roast.

Here's Alton's procedure. I'm still not all that sold on the giant
terra cotta pot deal.

Link may wrap.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_17372,00.htm
l



Brian

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Default User" > wrote in message
> ...

> > Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to
> > start in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside
> > in a hot oven.
> >
>
> OK, that makes more sense to me! I have also seen recipes where you
> brown a roast in a pan then finish it in a low oven - works great for
> standing rib roast.

As have I. I almost always do that for pot roast.

Here's Alton's procedure. I'm still not all that sold on the giant
terra cotta pot deal.

Link may wrap.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...6_17372,00.htm
l



Brian

>Alton's studies showed (or claimed to show) that it was better to start
>in a low oven, cook until done, rest, then brown the outside in a hot
>oven.
>
>
>
>Brian

Fine if you want shoe leather.




---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Harlan Messinger
> > wrote:

>>
>> Is the
>>pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
>>juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
>>from now on?
>
> I've always thought that was an old wives' tale.

You can skip it, but you skip the benefits also. When you brown meat, it
caramelizes the sugars and it concentrates flavors. While skipping that
step will still cook the met, there is some loss of flavor and if making a
gravy, it will be more bland as th ere will be no fonds in the pan.

Choice is your. Try it both ways and see what you like.

Searing and Sealing


The purpose of sealing meats at high heat is to create desirable flavor and
color by browning the meats' surfaces. It was long believed that searing the
surface of meat "seals the pores", keeping in juices. This does not
actually happen. Meat does not have pores but is an open network of fibers.
Think of the surface of a steak as resembling the cut end of a thick rope.
There are no pores to seal. It is true that heavy browning creates a kind of
crust on the surface of the meat, but this crust is no more waterproof than
an unbrowned surface.



Roasts cooked from the start at a low temperature retain more juices than
roasts that are seared at high heat first.



Steaks, chops, and cutlets cooked very quickly at high heat retain more
moisture at first because the intense heat drives the juices away from the
hot surface into the meat. This permits browning, because moisture would
create steam and inhibit browning. However, overcooked steaks will be dry
whether or not the steak was seared.

Alan wrote in
:

> On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:53:09 -0400, Harlan Messinger
> > wrote:
>
>>An article in this month's Gourmet discusses Harold McGee, author of
>>"On Food and Cooking", which many restaurant kitchens, reportedly, use
>>as a bible, and which is coming out in an entirely reworked edition
>>next month. According to the article, "the original [edition] is
>>renowned for having destroyed the myth, popularized in the mid-1800s
>>by German chemist Justus von Liebig, that searing meat would seal in
>>its juices."
>>
>>I've made any number of current recipes that call for browning meat
>>before braising or stewing it. Is McGee mistaken? Are the authors of
>>these recipes out of touch with modern science on the subject? Is the
>>pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
>>juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
>>from now on?
>
> I've always thought that was an old wives' tale.
>
> For me, searing gives the meat better color, and I think,
> better flavor.
>
>
>

You can skip the browning if you desire. But it does add flavour and visual
appeal. It doesn't keep the juices in, but it does caramelize the sugars
so-to-speak, which gives a better flavour to the dish and more eye appeal.

--
Starchless in Manitoba.

Harlan Messinger wrote:

> An article in this month's Gourmet discusses Harold McGee, author of
> "On Food and Cooking", which many restaurant kitchens, reportedly, use
> as a bible, and which is coming out in an entirely reworked edition
> next month. According to the article, "the original [edition] is
> renowned for having destroyed the myth, popularized in the mid-1800s
> by German chemist Justus von Liebig, that searing meat would seal in
> its juices."
>
> I've made any number of current recipes that call for browning meat
> before braising or stewing it. Is McGee mistaken? Are the authors of
> these recipes out of touch with modern science on the subject? Is the
> pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
> juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
> from now on?
>

You can skip the searing and cook your meat in the liquid. It was be
cooked, but I don't think it will be as nice or taste as good. My wife
taught me the art of braising. She was always good at it and makes
incredible beef stew, ox tails and beef short ribs. It helps to get a
nice rich colour and taste. Long slow cooking gives it the texture.

Hahabogus writes:
>
>Alan Moorman wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
>>
>>>An article in this month's Gourmet discusses Harold McGee, author of
>>>"On Food and Cooking", which many restaurant kitchens, reportedly, use
>>>as a bible, and which is coming out in an entirely reworked edition
>>>next month. According to the article, "the original [edition] is
>>>renowned for having destroyed the myth, popularized in the mid-1800s
>>>by German chemist Justus von Liebig, that searing meat would seal in
>>>its juices."
>>>
>>>I've made any number of current recipes that call for browning meat
>>>before braising or stewing it. Is McGee mistaken? Are the authors of
>>>these recipes out of touch with modern science on the subject? Is the
>>>pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
>>>juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
>>>from now on?
>>
>> I've always thought that was an old wives' tale.
>>
>> For me, searing gives the meat better color, and I think,
>> better flavor.
>
>You can skip the browning if you desire. But it does add flavour and visual
>appeal. It doesn't keep the juices in, but it does caramelize the sugars
>so-to-speak, which gives a better flavour to the dish and more eye appeal.
>
>--
>Starchless in Manitoba.

Funny you should mention "Starchless"...

In Chinese cookery moisture is sealed into meat quite effectively, especially
for stir-frying, by lightly coating meat with starch, typically with
cornstarch, but traditionally with lotus root flour. This doesn't work with
large cuts but I use the technique with thin, quickly cooked cuts and it does
work... like how cutlets stay more moist when coated with flour... Shake N'
Bake is actually Chinese, albiet Southern Hillybilly Chinese! LOL


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Hahabogus writes:
>
>Alan Moorman wrote:
Harlan Messinger wrote:
>>
>>>An article in this month's Gourmet discusses Harold McGee, author of
>>>"On Food and Cooking", which many restaurant kitchens, reportedly, use
>>>as a bible, and which is coming out in an entirely reworked edition
>>>next month. According to the article, "the original [edition] is
>>>renowned for having destroyed the myth, popularized in the mid-1800s
>>>by German chemist Justus von Liebig, that searing meat would seal in
>>>its juices."
>>>
>>>I've made any number of current recipes that call for browning meat
>>>before braising or stewing it. Is McGee mistaken? Are the authors of
>>>these recipes out of touch with modern science on the subject? Is the
>>>pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
>>>juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
>>>from now on?
>>
>> I've always thought that was an old wives' tale.
>>
>> For me, searing gives the meat better color, and I think,
>> better flavor.
>
>You can skip the browning if you desire. But it does add flavour and visual
>appeal. It doesn't keep the juices in, but it does caramelize the sugars
>so-to-speak, which gives a better flavour to the dish and more eye appeal.
>
>--
>Starchless in Manitoba.

Funny you should mention "Starchless"...

In Chinese cookery moisture is sealed into meat quite effectively, especially
for stir-frying, by lightly coating meat with starch, typically with
cornstarch, but traditionally with lotus root flour. This doesn't work with
large cuts but I use the technique with thin, quickly cooked cuts and it does
work... like how cutlets stay more moist when coated with flour... Shake N'
Bake is actually Chinese, albiet Southern Hillybilly Chinese! LOL


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Harlan Messinger wrote:
>
> > An article in this month's Gourmet discusses Harold McGee, author of
> > "On Food and Cooking", which many restaurant kitchens, reportedly, use
> > as a bible, and which is coming out in an entirely reworked edition
> > next month. According to the article, "the original [edition] is
> > renowned for having destroyed the myth, popularized in the mid-1800s
> > by German chemist Justus von Liebig, that searing meat would seal in
> > its juices."
> >
> > I've made any number of current recipes that call for browning meat
> > before braising or stewing it. Is McGee mistaken? Are the authors of
> > these recipes out of touch with modern science on the subject? Is the
> > pre-searing being done for some reason other than to seal in the
> > juices? Or can I safely skip the inconvenience of the browning step
> > from now on?
> >
>
> You can skip the searing and cook your meat in the liquid. It was be
> cooked, but I don't think it will be as nice or taste as good. My wife
> taught me the art of braising. She was always good at it and makes
> incredible beef stew, ox tails and beef short ribs. It helps to get a
> nice rich colour and taste. Long slow cooking gives it the texture.
>

I too love short ribs, oxtails, and the like. If you have never tried beef
cheeks, you ought to.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.