Hi all,

I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?

Thanks,
Katrina


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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>"White Monkey" writes:
>
>I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
>rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
>just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
>with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
>the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
>I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
>rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
>guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?

Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth from
about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the pruned
away vine. To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production. There
are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen on the
subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful practice.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>"White Monkey" writes:
>
>I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
>rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
>just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
>with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
>the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
>I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
>rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
>guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?

Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth from
about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the pruned
away vine. To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production. There
are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen on the
subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful practice.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

PENMART01 wrote:
>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>
>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
>> rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
>> just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
>> with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
>> the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
>> I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
>> rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
>> guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>
> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth from
> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the pruned
> away vine. To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
There
> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen on
the
> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful practice.
>

Hey PenFart
Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape *LEAVES* and
your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about growing leaves.

You've done it again. Posting what you believe is an answer, nothing to do with
the subject at hand.

PENMART01 wrote:
>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>
>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
>> rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
>> just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
>> with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
>> the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
>> I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
>> rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
>> guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>
> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth from
> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the pruned
> away vine. To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
There
> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen on
the
> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful practice.
>

Hey PenFart
Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape *LEAVES* and
your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about growing leaves.

You've done it again. Posting what you believe is an answer, nothing to do with
the subject at hand.

> >I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
> >rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used
to
> >just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
> >with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter
by
> >the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves
which
> >I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in
making
> >rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
> >guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>
> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
from
> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
pruned
> away vine.

Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!

>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
There
> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen
on the
> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
practice.

Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
But it's very good information to have!

Thanks again,
Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

> >I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
> >rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used
to
> >just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
> >with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter
by
> >the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves
which
> >I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in
making
> >rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
> >guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>
> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
from
> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
pruned
> away vine.

Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!

>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
There
> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen
on the
> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
practice.

Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
But it's very good information to have!

Thanks again,
Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

>"White Monkey"
>

>>
>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
>from
>> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
>pruned
>> away vine.
>
>Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!

The leaves from any grape varietal can be used. Choose the youngest leaves of
a suitable size.

>>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
>> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
>> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
>There
>> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen
>on the
>> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
>practice.
>
>Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
>they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
>likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
>otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
>But it's very good information to have!

The primary reason you don't have good grape production is from improper
pruning, you want to produce grapes, not vines and leaves. With proper
management your two little vines should produce, conservatively, 50 pounds of
fruit each.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>"White Monkey"
>

>>
>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
>from
>> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
>pruned
>> away vine.
>
>Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!

The leaves from any grape varietal can be used. Choose the youngest leaves of
a suitable size.

>>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
>> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
>> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
>There
>> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen
>on the
>> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
>practice.
>
>Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
>they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
>likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
>otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
>But it's very good information to have!

The primary reason you don't have good grape production is from improper
pruning, you want to produce grapes, not vines and leaves. With proper
management your two little vines should produce, conservatively, 50 pounds of
fruit each.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

White Monkey wrote:

> Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
> they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
> likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
> otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
> But it's very good information to have!
> Thanks again, Katrina

I planted two concord grape vines this year and so far no grapes but lots of
leaves. Grapes to me would be a plus, I'm growing the vines for the leaves. One
adds a few leaves in the bottom of the cucumber pickle jar to maintain
crispness. Or so the books say. We'll see. One of the correspondents on
rec.food.preserving mentioned salting the leaves heavily & keeping them on the
shelf. I've been wondering if I froze them whole they would maintain their
shape/taste/quality?
Edrena

> >> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
> >from
> >> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
> >pruned
> >> away vine.
> >
> >Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!
>
> The leaves from any grape varietal can be used. Choose the youngest
leaves of
> a suitable size.

Great! Thanks! Do they freeze well raw?

> >>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
> >> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures
plant
> >> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf
production.
> >There
> >> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been
writen
> >on the
> >> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
> >practice.
> >
> >Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
> >they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
> >likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
> >otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
> >But it's very good information to have!
>
> The primary reason you don't have good grape production is from improper
> pruning, you want to produce grapes, not vines and leaves. With proper
> management your two little vines should produce, conservatively, 50 pounds
of
> fruit each.
> Sheldon


In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this along
to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in my
late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
Thanks,
Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

> >> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
> >from
> >> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
> >pruned
> >> away vine.
> >
> >Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!
>
> The leaves from any grape varietal can be used. Choose the youngest
leaves of
> a suitable size.

Great! Thanks! Do they freeze well raw?

> >>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
> >> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures
plant
> >> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf
production.
> >There
> >> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been
writen
> >on the
> >> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
> >practice.
> >
> >Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
> >they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
> >likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
> >otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
> >But it's very good information to have!
>
> The primary reason you don't have good grape production is from improper
> pruning, you want to produce grapes, not vines and leaves. With proper
> management your two little vines should produce, conservatively, 50 pounds
of
> fruit each.
> Sheldon


In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this along
to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in my
late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
Thanks,
Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

>"White Monkey"
>Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>References: >
>
>Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:38:32 +0200
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
>Lines: 54
>Message-ID: >
>NNTP-Posting-Date: 01 Aug 2004 16:31:22 CEST
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.132.234.66
>X-Trace: 1091370682 news.xs4all.nl 559 cooper17/[::ffff:24.132.234.66]:32931
>X-Complaints-To:
>
>
>
>> >> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
>> >from
>> >> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
>> >pruned
>> >> away vine.
>> >
>> >Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!
>>
>> The leaves from any grape varietal can be used. Choose the youngest
>leaves of
>> a suitable size.
>
>Great! Thanks! Do they freeze well raw?
>
>> >>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
>> >> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures
>plant
>> >> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf
>production.
>> >There
>> >> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been
>writen
>> >on the
>> >> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
>> >practice.
>> >
>> >Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
>> >they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
>> >likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
>> >otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
>> >But it's very good information to have!
>>
>> The primary reason you don't have good grape production is from improper
>> pruning, you want to produce grapes, not vines and leaves. With proper
>> management your two little vines should produce, conservatively, 50 pounds
>of
>> fruit each.
>> Sheldon
>
>
>In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this along
>to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in my
>late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
>grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
>Thanks,
>Katrina
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>"White Monkey"
>Newsgroups: rec.food.cooking
>References: >
>
>Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:38:32 +0200
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
>Lines: 54
>Message-ID: >
>NNTP-Posting-Date: 01 Aug 2004 16:31:22 CEST
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.132.234.66
>X-Trace: 1091370682 news.xs4all.nl 559 cooper17/[::ffff:24.132.234.66]:32931
>X-Complaints-To:
>
>
>
>> >> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth
>> >from
>> >> about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the
>> >pruned
>> >> away vine.
>> >
>> >Thanks! So they really can be from just any kind of grape vine? Great!
>>
>> The leaves from any grape varietal can be used. Choose the youngest
>leaves of
>> a suitable size.
>
>Great! Thanks! Do they freeze well raw?
>
>> >>To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
>> >> weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures
>plant
>> >> energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf
>production.
>> >There
>> >> are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been
>writen
>> >on the
>> >> subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful
>> >practice.
>> >
>> >Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine as
>> >they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
>> >likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
>> >otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative plant.
>> >But it's very good information to have!
>>
>> The primary reason you don't have good grape production is from improper
>> pruning, you want to produce grapes, not vines and leaves. With proper
>> management your two little vines should produce, conservatively, 50 pounds
>of
>> fruit each.
>> Sheldon
>
>
>In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this along
>to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in my
>late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
>grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
>Thanks,
>Katrina
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

> It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
>grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
>Thanks,
>Katrina

http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/frt_hort/gra...ing_basics.htm


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

> It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
>grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
>Thanks,
>Katrina

http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/frt_hort/gra...ing_basics.htm


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

"The Joneses" > wrote in message
...
> White Monkey wrote:
>
> > Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine
as
> > they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
> > likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
> > otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative
plant.
> > But it's very good information to have!
> > Thanks again, Katrina
>
> I planted two concord grape vines this year and so far no grapes but lots
of
> leaves. Grapes to me would be a plus, I'm growing the vines for the
leaves. One
> adds a few leaves in the bottom of the cucumber pickle jar to maintain
> crispness. Or so the books say. We'll see. One of the correspondents on
> rec.food.preserving mentioned salting the leaves heavily & keeping them on
the
> shelf. I've been wondering if I froze them whole they would maintain their
> shape/taste/quality?
> Edrena


I hope someone knows for sure. I have frozen lime leaves, pandan leaves,
curry leaves, fenugreek leaves, and salaam leaves here; I don't see why
grape leaves shouldn't freeze just as well, being so fibrous. If nobody says
otherwise I'll just try it and let you know.
--Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

"The Joneses" > wrote in message
...
> White Monkey wrote:
>
> > Thanks, but I may not worry too heavily about it--this is a small vine
as
> > they go, and I'm in the Netherlands. I hold out very few hopes as to the
> > likely quality of the two (count them, two) clusters of grapes on this
> > otherwise thriving vine--it'll probably just count as a decorative
plant.
> > But it's very good information to have!
> > Thanks again, Katrina
>
> I planted two concord grape vines this year and so far no grapes but lots
of
> leaves. Grapes to me would be a plus, I'm growing the vines for the
leaves. One
> adds a few leaves in the bottom of the cucumber pickle jar to maintain
> crispness. Or so the books say. We'll see. One of the correspondents on
> rec.food.preserving mentioned salting the leaves heavily & keeping them on
the
> shelf. I've been wondering if I froze them whole they would maintain their
> shape/taste/quality?
> Edrena


I hope someone knows for sure. I have frozen lime leaves, pandan leaves,
curry leaves, fenugreek leaves, and salaam leaves here; I don't see why
grape leaves shouldn't freeze just as well, being so fibrous. If nobody says
otherwise I'll just try it and let you know.
--Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

>I hope someone knows for sure. I have frozen lime leaves, pandan leaves,
>curry leaves, fenugreek leaves, and salaam leaves here; I don't see why
>grape leaves shouldn't freeze just as well, being so fibrous. If nobody says
>otherwise I'll just try it and let you know.
>--Katrina

http://www.ellenskitchen.com/recipebox/dolmas.html


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>I hope someone knows for sure. I have frozen lime leaves, pandan leaves,
>curry leaves, fenugreek leaves, and salaam leaves here; I don't see why
>grape leaves shouldn't freeze just as well, being so fibrous. If nobody says
>otherwise I'll just try it and let you know.
>--Katrina

http://www.ellenskitchen.com/recipebox/dolmas.html


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

SamSpade wrote:
> PENMART01 wrote:
>>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>>
>>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>> make rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>> step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>> Concord vines. Now I live in a house with a grape vine that had
>>> been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by the previous
>>> tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which I
>>> know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in
>>> making rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are
>>> there guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>>
>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>> growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>> leaves from the pruned away vine.
(snip)
> Hey PenFart
> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
> *LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
> growing leaves.
>
No, you just didn't READ what he wrote. He said: choose your leaves from
the pruned away vine.

The rest is just lagniappe because, you know, those grapes will grow back.

Jill

SamSpade wrote:
> PENMART01 wrote:
>>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>>
>>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>> make rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>> step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>> Concord vines. Now I live in a house with a grape vine that had
>>> been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by the previous
>>> tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which I
>>> know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in
>>> making rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are
>>> there guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>>
>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>> growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>> leaves from the pruned away vine.
(snip)
> Hey PenFart
> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
> *LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
> growing leaves.
>
No, you just didn't READ what he wrote. He said: choose your leaves from
the pruned away vine.

The rest is just lagniappe because, you know, those grapes will grow back.

Jill

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:38:32 +0200, "White Monkey"
> wrote:

> In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this along
> to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in my
> late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
> grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.


Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
that sandy soil.



Practice safe eating - always use condiments

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:38:32 +0200, "White Monkey"
> wrote:

> In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this along
> to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in my
> late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
> grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.


Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
that sandy soil.



Practice safe eating - always use condiments

Instead of bashing poor old Penma;rt you should be directing your efforts to
bashing
Republicans. I know (or can't believe anyway) that Penn is a Republican so
ease up on him .Our cause needs all the red blooded men available and in
good shape.
After the November elections would be the
time to beat the Hell out of him. for misreading the grape leaf thing.
Moosemeat-armed and on watch for Nadar followers and Bush devotees/

/Moosemeat

> poor;['\.> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
*LEAVES* and
> your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about growing leaves.
>
> You've done it again. Posting what you believe is an answer, nothing to
do with
> the subject at hand.
>
>

Instead of bashing poor old Penma;rt you should be directing your efforts to
bashing
Republicans. I know (or can't believe anyway) that Penn is a Republican so
ease up on him .Our cause needs all the red blooded men available and in
good shape.
After the November elections would be the
time to beat the Hell out of him. for misreading the grape leaf thing.
Moosemeat-armed and on watch for Nadar followers and Bush devotees/

/Moosemeat

> poor;['\.> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
*LEAVES* and
> your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about growing leaves.
>
> You've done it again. Posting what you believe is an answer, nothing to
do with
> the subject at hand.
>
>

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:38:32 +0200, "White Monkey"
> > wrote:
>
> > In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this
along
> > to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in
my
> > late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
> > grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.


> Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
> like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
> that sandy soil.
> Practice safe eating - always use condiments


Thanks. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope except about it being a
nice foliage plant. We've had a few days now of full sun, but that is rare
here. Usually it's overcast for at least most of the day. Warm we have at
the moment, but also warm nights. By a month from now, though, it'll start
getting chilly, and by mid-September, day and night will be pretty cool and
it will be raining all the time. This just isn't a grape country. A friend
says her parents were able, with a lot of work, to grow a lot of purple
grapes of some sort one year but that they tasted like water. We'll just see
what we get, but I expect I'll be making a lot more rolled grape leaves than
I will jams.
Thanks,
Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:38:32 +0200, "White Monkey"
> > wrote:
>
> > In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this
along
> > to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in
my
> > late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
> > grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.


> Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
> like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
> that sandy soil.
> Practice safe eating - always use condiments


Thanks. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope except about it being a
nice foliage plant. We've had a few days now of full sun, but that is rare
here. Usually it's overcast for at least most of the day. Warm we have at
the moment, but also warm nights. By a month from now, though, it'll start
getting chilly, and by mid-September, day and night will be pretty cool and
it will be raining all the time. This just isn't a grape country. A friend
says her parents were able, with a lot of work, to grow a lot of purple
grapes of some sort one year but that they tasted like water. We'll just see
what we get, but I expect I'll be making a lot more rolled grape leaves than
I will jams.
Thanks,
Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

>"White Monkey" writes:
>
>"sf" wrote"White Monkey"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this
>along
>> > to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in
>my
>> > late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
>> > grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
>
>
>> Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
>> like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
>> that sandy soil.
>> Practice safe eating - always use condiments
>
>
>Thanks. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope except about it being a
>nice foliage plant. We've had a few days now of full sun, but that is rare
>here. Usually it's overcast for at least most of the day. Warm we have at
>the moment, but also warm nights. By a month from now, though, it'll start
>getting chilly, and by mid-September, day and night will be pretty cool and
>it will be raining all the time. This just isn't a grape country. A friend
>says her parents were able, with a lot of work, to grow a lot of purple
>grapes of some sort one year but that they tasted like water. We'll just see
>what we get, but I expect I'll be making a lot more rolled grape leaves than
>I will jams.
>Thanks,
>Katrina

Grapes flourish over a wide range of climates and soil conditions... your
negativity is begining to sound as though you're just too lazy and obtuse to
make the effort.

http://www.grapeseek.com/webpages/faq.html


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>"White Monkey" writes:
>
>"sf" wrote"White Monkey"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass this
>along
>> > to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now in
>my
>> > late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters of
>> > grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
>
>
>> Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
>> like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
>> that sandy soil.
>> Practice safe eating - always use condiments
>
>
>Thanks. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope except about it being a
>nice foliage plant. We've had a few days now of full sun, but that is rare
>here. Usually it's overcast for at least most of the day. Warm we have at
>the moment, but also warm nights. By a month from now, though, it'll start
>getting chilly, and by mid-September, day and night will be pretty cool and
>it will be raining all the time. This just isn't a grape country. A friend
>says her parents were able, with a lot of work, to grow a lot of purple
>grapes of some sort one year but that they tasted like water. We'll just see
>what we get, but I expect I'll be making a lot more rolled grape leaves than
>I will jams.
>Thanks,
>Katrina

Grapes flourish over a wide range of climates and soil conditions... your
negativity is begining to sound as though you're just too lazy and obtuse to
make the effort.

http://www.grapeseek.com/webpages/faq.html


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

SamSpade wrote:
> PENMART01 wrote:
>
>>>"White Monkey" writes:
>>>
>>>I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
>>>rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
>>>just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
>>>with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
>>>the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
>>>I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
>>>rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
>>>guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>>
>>Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth from
>>about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the pruned
>>away vine. To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
>>weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
>>energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
>
> There
>
>>are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen on
>
> the
>
>>subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful practice.
>>
>
>
> Hey PenFart
> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape *LEAVES* and
> your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about growing leaves.
>
> You've done it again. Posting what you believe is an answer, nothing to do with
> the subject at hand.
>
>


You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then use
the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
harvest the leaves and more fruit.

Bob

SamSpade wrote:
> PENMART01 wrote:
>
>>>"White Monkey" writes:
>>>
>>>I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to make
>>>rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian step-grandmother used to
>>>just use leaves off my grandmother's Concord vines. Now I live in a house
>>>with a grape vine that had been trimmed all the way to a stump for winter by
>>>the previous tenants but is now very nice, so here are tons of leaves which
>>>I know have never been sprayed with chemicals, etc. Can I use them in making
>>>rolled and stuffed grape leaves of various sorts? If so, are there
>>>guidelines for which ones, as in how old, etc., I should use?
>>
>>Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine growth from
>>about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your leaves from the pruned
>>away vine. To maximize grape production and quality 1/3 of the vine (by
>>weight) past the grape clusters must be pruned away... this ensures plant
>>energy is directed towards grape production rather than leaf production.
>
> There
>
>>are various methods for pruning grape vines, many books have been writen on
>
> the
>
>>subject but it's more an art form requiring talent honed by faithful practice.
>>
>
>
> Hey PenFart
> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape *LEAVES* and
> your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about growing leaves.
>
> You've done it again. Posting what you believe is an answer, nothing to do with
> the subject at hand.
>
>


You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then use
the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
harvest the leaves and more fruit.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
> SamSpade wrote:
>> PENMART01 wrote:
>>
>>>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>>>
>>>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>>> make
>>>> rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>>> step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>>> Concord vines.
(snip)
>>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>>> growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>>> leaves from the pruned away vine. To maximize grape production

>> Hey PenFart
>> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
>> *LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
>> growing leaves.
>
> You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
> fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then
> use
> the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
> harvest the leaves and more fruit.
>
> Bob

IIRC, Sheldon has a very healthy garden and may well grow grapes as well. I
wouldn't discount his pruning methods quite so quickly. He might not know
about growing grapes in the Netherlands but as a prolific gardener I'd be
willing to bet he knows something about grapes

Jill

zxcvbob wrote:
> SamSpade wrote:
>> PENMART01 wrote:
>>
>>>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>>>
>>>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>>> make
>>>> rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>>> step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>>> Concord vines.
(snip)
>>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>>> growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>>> leaves from the pruned away vine. To maximize grape production

>> Hey PenFart
>> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
>> *LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
>> growing leaves.
>
> You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
> fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then
> use
> the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
> harvest the leaves and more fruit.
>
> Bob

IIRC, Sheldon has a very healthy garden and may well grow grapes as well. I
wouldn't discount his pruning methods quite so quickly. He might not know
about growing grapes in the Netherlands but as a prolific gardener I'd be
willing to bet he knows something about grapes

Jill

zxcvbob wrote:
> SamSpade wrote:
>> PENMART01 wrote:
>>
>>>> "White Monkey" writes:
>>>>
>>>> I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>>> make
>>>> rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>>> step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>>> Concord vines.
(snip)
>>> Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>>> growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>>> leaves from the pruned away vine. To maximize grape production

>> Hey PenFart
>> Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
>> *LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
>> growing leaves.
>
> You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
> fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then
> use
> the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
> harvest the leaves and more fruit.
>
> Bob

IIRC, Sheldon has a very healthy garden and may well grow grapes as well. I
wouldn't discount his pruning methods quite so quickly. He might not know
about growing grapes in the Netherlands but as a prolific gardener I'd be
willing to bet he knows something about grapes

Jill

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> >"White Monkey" writes:
> >
> >"sf" wrote"White Monkey"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass
this
> >along
> >> > to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now
in
> >my
> >> > late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters
of
> >> > grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
> >
> >
> >> Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
> >> like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
> >> that sandy soil.
> >> Practice safe eating - always use condiments
> >
> >
> >Thanks. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope except about it being a
> >nice foliage plant. We've had a few days now of full sun, but that is
rare
> >here. Usually it's overcast for at least most of the day. Warm we have at
> >the moment, but also warm nights. By a month from now, though, it'll
start
> >getting chilly, and by mid-September, day and night will be pretty cool
and
> >it will be raining all the time. This just isn't a grape country. A
friend
> >says her parents were able, with a lot of work, to grow a lot of purple
> >grapes of some sort one year but that they tasted like water. We'll just
see
> >what we get, but I expect I'll be making a lot more rolled grape leaves
than
> >I will jams.
> >Thanks,
> >Katrina
>
> Grapes flourish over a wide range of climates and soil conditions... your
> negativity is begining to sound as though you're just too lazy and obtuse
to
> make the effort.


Well, gosh, screw you too! "Don't hold out a lot of hope" and "ain't gonna
try" are as different as night and day. Thanks a lot.
--Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> >"White Monkey" writes:
> >
> >"sf" wrote"White Monkey"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > In icky boring sandy soil and a Dutch climate? AWESOME! I'll pass
this
> >along
> >> > to my husband, who's doing the majority of the gardening right now
in
> >my
> >> > late pregnancy. It's only one vine, though, by the way--two clusters
of
> >> > grapes. We have NO idea what kind yet, or even what color.
> >
> >
> >> Grapes like full sun, warm days and cool nights. Sounds
> >> like you'll need to experiment with watering since you have
> >> that sandy soil.
> >> Practice safe eating - always use condiments
> >
> >
> >Thanks. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope except about it being a
> >nice foliage plant. We've had a few days now of full sun, but that is
rare
> >here. Usually it's overcast for at least most of the day. Warm we have at
> >the moment, but also warm nights. By a month from now, though, it'll
start
> >getting chilly, and by mid-September, day and night will be pretty cool
and
> >it will be raining all the time. This just isn't a grape country. A
friend
> >says her parents were able, with a lot of work, to grow a lot of purple
> >grapes of some sort one year but that they tasted like water. We'll just
see
> >what we get, but I expect I'll be making a lot more rolled grape leaves
than
> >I will jams.
> >Thanks,
> >Katrina
>
> Grapes flourish over a wide range of climates and soil conditions... your
> negativity is begining to sound as though you're just too lazy and obtuse
to
> make the effort.


Well, gosh, screw you too! "Don't hold out a lot of hope" and "ain't gonna
try" are as different as night and day. Thanks a lot.
--Katrina


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/04

jmcquown wrote:

> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>>SamSpade wrote:
>>
>>>PENMART01 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>"White Monkey" writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>>>>make
>>>>>rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>>>>step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>>>>Concord vines.
>
> (snip)
>
>>>>Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>>>>growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>>>>leaves from the pruned away vine. To maximize grape production
>
>
>>>Hey PenFart
>>>Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
>>>*LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
>>>growing leaves.
>>
>>You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
>>fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then
>>use
>>the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
>>harvest the leaves and more fruit.
>>
>>Bob
>
>
> IIRC, Sheldon has a very healthy garden and may well grow grapes as well. I
> wouldn't discount his pruning methods quite so quickly. He might not know
> about growing grapes in the Netherlands but as a prolific gardener I'd be
> willing to bet he knows something about grapes
>
> Jill


I'm not discounting it, I'm saying I don't know. I don't grow grapes,
so I haven't researched the pruning methods -- especially summer
pruning. I do know that grapes are pruned *very* heavily. I believe
you remove all of the wood every year except for the trunk and four
not-very-long scaffold branches, but don't quote me on that.

Bob

jmcquown wrote:

> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>>SamSpade wrote:
>>
>>>PENMART01 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>"White Monkey" writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>I used to think that one needed a specific type of grape leaves to
>>>>>make
>>>>>rolled and filled grape leaves, but my Palestinian
>>>>>step-grandmother used to just use leaves off my grandmother's
>>>>>Concord vines.
>
> (snip)
>
>>>>Wait until the grapes attain pea size, then prune away all vine
>>>>growth from about 12 inches past the grape clusters.... choose your
>>>>leaves from the pruned away vine. To maximize grape production
>
>
>>>Hey PenFart
>>>Did you even bother to read the OP? She was asking about grape
>>>*LEAVES* and your blurb is about how to grow grapes, not whit about
>>>growing leaves.
>>
>>You didn't read what he said. He said to prune the grapes for maximum
>>fruit production (I'm not sure his pruning method is correct), then
>>use
>>the leaves from the prunings to make dolmas. That way, you get to
>>harvest the leaves and more fruit.
>>
>>Bob
>
>
> IIRC, Sheldon has a very healthy garden and may well grow grapes as well. I
> wouldn't discount his pruning methods quite so quickly. He might not know
> about growing grapes in the Netherlands but as a prolific gardener I'd be
> willing to bet he knows something about grapes
>
> Jill


I'm not discounting it, I'm saying I don't know. I don't grow grapes,
so I haven't researched the pruning methods -- especially summer
pruning. I do know that grapes are pruned *very* heavily. I believe
you remove all of the wood every year except for the trunk and four
not-very-long scaffold branches, but don't quote me on that.

Bob