Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.

What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone
tried it?

Once or twice I've let chicken marinate in lemon juice a little too long,
and it starts to take on that ceviche-y, cooked look, but I was going to
cook it anyway, so I never went through with the experiment.

Cate

Cate wrote:
> What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has
> anyone tried it?

Here are a few facts:

1) With the exception of parasites, seafoods common in ceviche do not
host bacteria related to food poisoning (to my knowledge). This is what
makes ceviche a "safe" food preparation with respect to cooking based on
low pH versus cooking with heat. This is independent of contamination by
other factors.

2) Poultry hosts various strains of Salmonella in the gut. Some are able
to escape into the bloodstream and develop in other sites; notably the
ovaries thus allowing contamination of eggs. One should always assume the
worst-case contamination.

3) While Salmonella Enterica and Enteriditis demonstrate inhibited growth
at a pH of 4 or below, Salmonella Typhimurium has demonstrated low-pH
resistance, implying a potential for growth in a ceviche-style
preparation. These strains have been shown to contaminate consumer
poultry via lab sampling.

4) Low pH "cooking" is generally non-penetrating, consequently internally
the meat will not be exposed to the growth-inhibiting environment of the
ceviche preparation. Salmonella Typhimurium notwithstanding, conceivably
one could prepare chicken carpaccio-style (very thinly sliced) to
maximize exposure of the meat to the low pH cooking environment.

Draw your own conclusions. I would not attempt this preparation.


Standard Disclaimer: I am not a microbiologist. My background is purely
autodidactic.

"Jeffrey P. Vasquez" > wrote in
message ...
> Cate wrote:
> > What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has
> > anyone tried it?
>
> Here are a few facts:
<snip>

Thanks!

Cate

Cate wrote:

> Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.
>
> What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has
anyone
> tried it?
>
> Once or twice I've let chicken marinate in lemon juice a little too long,
> and it starts to take on that ceviche-y, cooked look, but I was going to
> cook it anyway, so I never went through with the experiment.
>


Yikes! The texture alone would turn me off. I like seafood ceviche, but
*chicken* ceviche...!!!???

--
Best
Greg

Cate wrote:

> Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.
>
> What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone
> tried it?
>
> Once or twice I've let chicken marinate in lemon juice a little too long,
> and it starts to take on that ceviche-y, cooked look, but I was going to
> cook it anyway, so I never went through with the experiment.

The protein would be denatured just like it is with seafood.
Additionally, the acid environment would slow or stop bacterial growth.

Having said that, the neutrality of the chicken's flavor would be
utterly overwhelmed by the lime juice. I'd suggest using dilute lemon
juice to start the process and finish it like escabeche where it's
cooked in the juice.

Pastorio

"Bob Pastorio" > wrote in message
...

> Having said that, the neutrality of the chicken's flavor would be
> utterly overwhelmed by the lime juice.

That's the best explanation I've seen on why no one does it.

I'd suggest using dilute lemon
> juice to start the process and finish it like escabeche where it's
> cooked in the juice.

Thanks.

Cate

"Cate" > wrote in message >...
> Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.
>
> What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has anyone
> tried it?

The thought of eating "raw" chicken would make me vomit. Seems like a
silly process to inflict on a piece of chicken. The acid of the
lemon/lime juice would *probably* be enough to kill any harmful
bacteria but why risk it?

"Carmen Dioxide" > wrote in message
om...
> "Cate" > wrote in message
>...
> > Last night at a Cuban joint I tried ceviche for the first time: yummy.
> >
> > What would happen if you did that to chicken instead of seafood? Has
anyone
> > tried it?
>
> The thought of eating "raw" chicken would make me vomit. Seems like a
> silly process to inflict on a piece of chicken. The acid of the
> lemon/lime juice would *probably* be enough to kill any harmful
> bacteria but why risk it?

Thanks.

To clarify once again, I'm not planning to do this; I was merely curious why
it was never done (that I knew of).

Cate

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:11:07 -0500, "Cate"
> wrote:

>"Carmen Dioxide" > wrote

>> The thought of eating "raw" chicken would make me vomit. Seems like a
>> silly process to inflict on a piece of chicken. The acid of the
>> lemon/lime juice would *probably* be enough to kill any harmful
>> bacteria but why risk it?

>To clarify once again, I'm not planning to do this; I was merely curious why
>it was never done (that I knew of).

Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef? Or marinate shrimp
in grape jelly and oatmeal? Sometimes the reason is plain common
sense. Sometimes, in the case of raw chicken possibly full of
bacteria, common sense. Oops. I have *heard* of raw chicken sashimi
made with super-certified meat, but there's no way in the world I'd
try it. The culinary history of raw chicken is full of horror stories
and very few recipes. I go with the flow. Seviche is a traditional and
well-proven recipe for fish and shellfish. I'm willing to believe if
it hasn't become popular with chicken, there are valid reasons.

"Frogleg" > wrote in message
...

Oops. I have *heard* of raw chicken sashimi
> made with super-certified meat, but there's no way in the world I'd
> try it.

See? I didn't know that. So I just went to learn more about it.

I guess the common wisdom differs in the west than it does in Asia, where
chicken sashimi and other things like blowfish (with neurotoxins) are
routinely consumed uncooked. That's exactly the kind of thing what I was
curious about.

Many people in the US will eat raw eggs or things that contain them, despite
the common practice of factory farming. The eggs may have traveled hundreds
of miles and be quite old by the time they're consumed uncooked or not fully
cooked.

The culinary history of raw chicken is full of horror stories
> and very few recipes. I go with the flow. Seviche is a traditional and
> well-proven recipe for fish and shellfish. I'm willing to believe if
> it hasn't become popular with chicken, there are valid reasons.

I'm fairly new to trying new things in cooking (to say nothing of culinary
history), and I didn't know it wasn't popular with chicken. That's why I
asked.

Cate

In article >,
Frogleg > wrote:

> Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?

We don't?
Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes
and Mango-Black Bean Salsa
<http://www.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/01...eatloaf.recipe
..html>

--
to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
please mail OT responses only

Scott wrote in response:
> Frogleg wrote:
>
>> Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?
>
> We don't?
> Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes
> and Mango-Black Bean Salsa
> <http://www.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/01.../meatloaf.reci
> pe .html>

Exactly.

Cate, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your question.

Frogleg is implying, if we were supposed to fly, why don't we have
wings.

Scott is saying some dare to dream.

I am not discounting your suggestion, but simply supplying reason.

What about vegetable ceviche? I haven't seen that one. Be a pioneer.

Scott > wrote:
>In article >,
> Frogleg > wrote:
>
>> Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?
>
>We don't?
>Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes
>and Mango-Black Bean Salsa
><http://www.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/01...eatloaf.recipe
>.html>

I'm sorry.

That's getting crossposted.

--Blair
"Garnish with beak, agape in awe."

Scott wrote:

> Frogleg > wrote:
>>Why don't we ever cover bananas with ground beef?
\>
> We don't?
> Tropical Beef and Banana "Parfait" Meatloaf with Mashed Sweet Potatoes
> and Mango-Black Bean Salsa
> <http://www.cnn.com/2000/FOOD/news/01...eatloaf.recipe
> .html>

Ugh. Sorry, but that just sounds nasty to me! I'm putting that in the
same mental file where I placed the tuna-salad-lemon-jello-mold recipe.

-j.