We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
home. Got any good recipes?

nb

notbob > wrote in
:

> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
> brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
> home. Got any good recipes?
>
> nb
>


I use beef and veal, some red wine, good beef stock, homemade tomato 'sauce',
fresh herbs, cook it for a couple of hours, then let it 'rest' in the fridge
for about 2-4 days, reheat slowly and right at the last, add in some kalamata
olives that have been soaked in warm water and then squeezed to get the brine
off.


--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

On 2009-09-15, PeterL > wrote:

> I use beef and veal, some red wine, good beef stock, homemade tomato 'sauce',
> fresh herbs, cook it for a couple of hours, then let it 'rest' in the fridge
> for about 2-4 days, reheat slowly and right at the last, add in some kalamata
> olives that have been soaked in warm water and then squeezed to get the brine
> off.

Dang! Sounds tasty. I like the olive thing.

nb

notbob > wrote in
:

> On 2009-09-15, PeterL > wrote:
>
>> I use beef and veal, some red wine, good beef stock, homemade tomato
>> 'sauce', fresh herbs, cook it for a couple of hours, then let it 'rest'
>> in the fridge for about 2-4 days, reheat slowly and right at the last,
>> add in some kalamata olives that have been soaked in warm water and
>> then squeezed to get the brine off.
>
> Dang! Sounds tasty. I like the olive thing.
>


The 'resting' in the fridge seems to mature the flavour a lot. We've had it
fresh made, and it's still tasty, but it's always better when it's a few days
old.... just like a curry :-)



--
Peter Lucas
Brisbane
Australia


If we are not meant to eat animals,
why are they made of meat?

I like this one:

Ingredients:

2 tbsp olive oil
1 med. onion, chopped
1/4 cup pancetta, proscuitto, or bacon
1 carrot, finely diced (grated if you abhor carrot chunks)
1 stalk celery, finely diced
3 cloves garlic, minced
750g / 250g mixture of lean minced beef, veal or both / pork
1 cup dry white wine
1/2 cup milk
pinch of grated nutmeg
2 x 400g cans of whole Roma tomatoes, roughly chopped with a knife
(If using fresh tomatoes, press tomatoes through a colander to remove excess
liquid and discard the seeds)
2 tbsp tomato paste or lots of blitzed sundried (you'll need to use an awful
lot of sun-dried tomatoes to get the equivalent strength of the tomato
paste, but the results will be better)
2 bay leaves
3 tsp each of chopped fresh thyme, parsley and oregano
a handful of chopped basil

Method:

Heat 1/2 the oil over medium-high heat; saute onion, pancetta, carrot and
celery until there's a bit of brown, before adding the garlic and cooking
until fragrant.

Add rest of oil, both minced meats and cook, stirring until beef is no
longer pink. Do not brown too much.

Add tomato paste and stir around before deglazing with wine; cook until
almost entirely evaporated.

Reduce heat to medium and add milk, salt, pepper and nutmeg; cook until milk
has evaporated.

Add tomatoes, (and sundried puree if using), herbs and bring to gentlest
simmer,
stirring occasionally, for 2 hours or until thickened. A pressure cooker
will do it in a ¼ of the time.

Discard bay leaves and stir in basil.

Eat. Or make lasagne. Or one then the other.

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
> brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
> home. Got any good recipes?
>
> nb

notbob wrote:

> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
> brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
> home. Got any good recipes?
>
> nb

One key aspect of bolognese sauce is the use of white wine. I can
always tell if it's made with red in the first bite. It lacks the
acidity and brightness that white adds.

On 2009-09-15, RegForte > wrote:

> One key aspect of bolognese sauce is the use of white wine. I can
> always tell if it's made with red in the first bite. It lacks the
> acidity and brightness that white adds.

Dang! There's that white wine, again. Surely, there are mellow whites
and bright reds. May have to try it both ways.

nb

RegForte > wrote:

> One key aspect of bolognese sauce is the use of white wine.

I do not think so. The recipe deposited at the Bologna Chamber of
Commerce by the Accademia Italiana della Cucina specifies red wine and,
in fact, the use of red wine is at least as typical as that of white
wine.

By the way, there is a very similar sauce in Campania, also made with
salsa besciamella and often enough served with egg pasta. Often, white
wine is used and sometimes also Marsala or even Port. It is said to
have been independently developed, not something derived from ragù alla
bolognese. It is called simply ragù (or "rraù" in the local dialect) di
macinato or similar.

Victor

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
> brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
> home. Got any good recipes?
>
> nb
>
>
I'd start with Marcella Hazan's recipe first Below is from her "Classic
Italian..." cookbook. It's also as written in her later cookbooks. The
important points she makes a
1. Cook, don't brown the meat.
2. Add milk, and slowly simmer it off as below. It sounded strange to me
years ago, but that's what you do and that's what makes the dish. .
3. Then add white wine and simmer to evaporate it. Don't use red wine.
Don't use an expensive wine. I use Ponti dry vermouth from Trader Joe's.
4. Simmer very very gently for 3+ hours before you eat.

Bolognese Sauce (serves 4)

1T vegetable oil
4T butter
1 small onion, chopped
2 medium carrots, chopped
2 stalks celery, chopped
500 g ground beef chuck
salt
pepper
1C 2% milk
nutmeg
1C white wine
1 1/2C canned tomatoes, broken into pieces, with juice

Put oil, 3T butter and onion in a heavy pot and turn heat to medium. Cook,
stirring until it has become translucent, then add the celery and carrot.
Cook and stir for about 2 minutes. Add ground beef, a large pinch of salt
and a few grindings of pepper. Crumble meat with a fork and continue
stirring until beef has lost its raw color. Add milk and let simmer gently,
stirring to avoid letting it stick. Add a tiny grating, about 1/8 teaspoon,
fresh nutmeg and stir. When milk has all been absorbed. Add wine and let it
simmer until it has absorbed. Then add tomatoes and stir thoroughly. When
sauce starts to bubble, turn down the heat to low so that only a very
occasional bubble breaks the surface. Cook, uncovered, for 3 hours or more,
stirring from time to time.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:20:33 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
>brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce.

Didn't we just have a (long) thread about it a couple of weeks ago nb?

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 2009-09-15, sf > wrote:

> Didn't we just have a (long) thread about it a couple of weeks ago nb?

If so, I missed it.

nb

notbob wrote:

> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
> brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
> home. Got any good recipes?

It's a meat based sauce where the main part is beef (cartella is the
bolognese name for the exact cut, from near the diaphragm), lean pork and
mortadella.
Dairy can be omitted but the traditional bolognese style includes or milk or
the cream emerged from the milk overnight.
Tomato can be under the form of sauce, under 10% the total volume, or
concentrate, in the latter case the amount is ridiculous. It's almost as if
the tomato gets added only to give colour.
The starter of the ragu' is a low temp sautee of finely minced celery, onion
and carrot. Nowadays it is usually made with EVO oil but, probably, it was
made with butter until some decades ago. When the veggies are transparent
one raises the heat to medium, puts in the pot all the ground meats and the
mortadella and mix them well with the veggies, and now add some white wine
which will soon evaporate during this mixing phase on medium heat. After
this it's time to add the tomato and, if the mix is not enough wet, milk or
water or cream. These liquids are expecially needed if one's using
concentrated tomato instead of sauce. Here one reduces the heat to very low
and starts the long and low simmering, with a someway displaced lid so to
have an uncomplete cover, and when the ragu' tends to dry up one just adds
more water or milk. Cream gets added only once, even cream users go on with
milk after starting the simmmering. The simmering can last a whole morning
starting very early and until lunchtime, say from 7AM to 1PM, and then the
ragu' goes straigth on tagliatelle (remember, "spaghetti bolognese" are not
italian nor bolognese: bolognese sauce goes with "tagliatelle alla
bolognese", not spaghetti which are from southern Italy).
Obviously if one is going to make lasagne it's better to make the ragu' the
day before, so that one can arrange the lasagne in the morning before lunch,
or even the day before baking them: they improve if they wait overnight.
Spices and herbs are quiet limited here, the most one can traditionally find
is ground white or black pepper, nutmeg and bay leaf. Sure there's people
adding more spices, but that's going a bit off the original. I myself don't
use nutmeg nor bay leaf in this ragu', just ground white pepper.
Sure I'll have forgot something, but these are guidelines fully following
the classic bolognese sauce, or "ragu' alla bolognese".
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:33:58 GMT, "ViLco" > wrote:

>notbob wrote:
>
>> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
>> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
>> brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
>> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
>> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
>> home. Got any good recipes?
>
>It's a meat based sauce where the main part is beef (cartella is the
>bolognese name for the exact cut, from near the diaphragm), lean pork and
>mortadella.
>Dairy can be omitted but the traditional bolognese style includes or milk or
>the cream emerged from the milk overnight.
>Tomato can be under the form of sauce, under 10% the total volume, or
>concentrate, in the latter case the amount is ridiculous. It's almost as if
>the tomato gets added only to give colour.
>The starter of the ragu' is a low temp sautee of finely minced celery, onion
>and carrot. Nowadays it is usually made with EVO oil but, probably, it was
>made with butter until some decades ago. When the veggies are transparent
>one raises the heat to medium, puts in the pot all the ground meats

Seems kinda back asswards to add raw ground meat to sauted veggies,
makes more sense to brown the ground meat first and then add the
veggies to sweat and deglaze.

>and the mortadella

Never heard of cooking mortadella (bologna), unless you think that's
what makes it Bolognese, not... why don't you add SPAM.

There really is no "classic" bolognese sauce, it's a basic meat sauce
where it's mostly the particular herbs and spices that make it dago...
otherwise could just as easily be chili or sloppy joe.

Bolognese; alla Bolognese
[boh-luh-NEEZ, ah-lah boh-luhn-YAYZ, It. , baw-law-NYEH-seh]
Named after the rich cookery style of Bologna, Italy, Bolognese refers
to dishes served with a thick, full-bodied meat and vegetable sauce
enhanced with wine and milk or cream. The term alla Bolognese (in
French, à la Bolognese ) on a menu designates a pasta or other dish
sauced in this manner. The Italian term for this sauce is ragu
Bolognese , or often simply ragu .

© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.



>and mix them well with the veggies, and now add some white wine
>which will soon evaporate during this mixing phase on medium heat. After
>this it's time to add the tomato and, if the mix is not enough wet, milk or
>water or cream. These liquids are expecially needed if one's using
>concentrated tomato instead of sauce. Here one reduces the heat to very low
>and starts the long and low simmering, with a someway displaced lid so to
>have an uncomplete cover, and when the ragu' tends to dry up one just adds
>more water or milk. Cream gets added only once, even cream users go on with
>milk after starting the simmmering. The simmering can last a whole morning
>starting very early and until lunchtime, say from 7AM to 1PM, and then the
>ragu' goes straigth on tagliatelle (remember, "spaghetti bolognese" are not
>italian nor bolognese: bolognese sauce goes with "tagliatelle alla
>bolognese", not spaghetti which are from southern Italy).
>Obviously if one is going to make lasagne it's better to make the ragu' the
>day before, so that one can arrange the lasagne in the morning before lunch,
>or even the day before baking them: they improve if they wait overnight.
>Spices and herbs are quiet limited here, the most one can traditionally find
>is ground white or black pepper, nutmeg and bay leaf. Sure there's people
>adding more spices, but that's going a bit off the original. I myself don't
>use nutmeg nor bay leaf in this ragu', just ground white pepper.
>Sure I'll have forgot something, but these are guidelines fully following
>the classic bolognese sauce, or "ragu' alla bolognese".

brooklyn1 wrote:

> Seems kinda back asswards to add raw ground meat to sauted veggies,
> makes more sense to brown the ground meat first and then add the
> veggies to sweat and deglaze.

It's "soffritto", made at the start in many many italian sauces.

>> and the mortadella

> Never heard of cooking mortadella (bologna), unless you think that's
> what makes it Bolognese, not... why don't you add SPAM.

No, it's what people in bologna add to theyr ragu' to give it a fatter
character, since both the beef and the pork are lean cuts. Some use
mortadella, some use pancetta, others use aged lard. Mortadella gives the
best results, im(anjm)o.

> There really is no "classic" bolognese sauce, it's a basic meat sauce
> where it's mostly the particular herbs and spices that make it dago...
> otherwise could just as easily be chili or sloppy joe.

Your simplicistic view of italian kitchen always amazes me.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

In article >,
"ViLco" > wrote:

> brooklyn1 wrote:

> > There really is no "classic" bolognese sauce, it's a basic meat sauce
> > where it's mostly the particular herbs and spices that make it dago...
> > otherwise could just as easily be chili or sloppy joe.
>
> Your simplicistic view of italian kitchen always amazes me.

Not to mention his simplistic view of Italians. "Dago", according to my
English dictionary, is considered offensive. When he uses the word
"dago", you can consider that as a deliberate slap in the face.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:09:53 -0700, Dan Abel > wrote:

>In article >,
> "ViLco" > wrote:
>
>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> > There really is no "classic" bolognese sauce, it's a basic meat sauce
>> > where it's mostly the particular herbs and spices that make it dago...
>> > otherwise could just as easily be chili or sloppy joe.
>>
>> Your simplicistic view of italian kitchen always amazes me.
>
>Not to mention his simplistic view of Italians. "Dago", according to my
>English dictionary, is considered offensive. When he uses the word
>"dago", you can consider that as a deliberate slap in the face.

In Brooklyn it's a term of endearment...
Yo, Dago Hank, whut's yer momma cookin'?

Dan Abel wrote:

>> Your simplicistic view of italian kitchen always amazes me.

> Not to mention his simplistic view of Italians. "Dago", according to
> my English dictionary, is considered offensive. When he uses the word
> "dago", you can consider that as a deliberate slap in the face.

I know, and I never enter racist **** contests with him nor with anyone,
just give him some FU when I feel like doin' it. Anyway, a FU is always
implied in my answers to his racist-insults laden posts.
--
Vilco
Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza
qualcosa da bere a portata di mano

"Dan Abel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "ViLco" > wrote:
>
>> brooklyn1 wrote:
>
>> > There really is no "classic" bolognese sauce, it's a basic meat sauce
>> > where it's mostly the particular herbs and spices that make it dago...
>> > otherwise could just as easily be chili or sloppy joe.
>>
>> Your simplicistic view of italian kitchen always amazes me.
>
> Not to mention his simplistic view of Italians. "Dago", according to my
> English dictionary, is considered offensive. When he uses the word
> "dago", you can consider that as a deliberate slap in the face.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
> Petaluma, California USA
>



Where my parents grew up (Ohio) there were definite boundaries. It was an
immigrant town, a steel mill town. They had "hunkies" (Hungarians), Dagos
and Wops. I'm still not clear on what the difference was between Dagos and
Wops. But I knew it was offensive. Heh. My folks lived on the "English"
side of town. I have no idea what difference it made since they all worked
in the mills. I never saw a black person in that town. And the town
practically doesn't exist anymore, regardless of whatever racism existed in
the 1920's, 30's, 40's... so on and etc.

Jill

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:20:33 GMT, notbob > wrote:

>We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
>sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
>brought up. What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
>a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
>lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
>home. Got any good recipes?
>
>

What makes it great is what makes any dish great, quality ingredients
and the care taken by the cook.... make the effort to properly prep
all the ingredients rather than slaughtering them with the food
processor (it's just not possible to cook great dishes with a food
processor) and apportion time to add each ingredient separately so all
are cooked properly at the same time. For this meat sauce I like to
use equal portions of coarsely ground beef and fresh Italian sausage,
I use onion and garlic but no celery, carrot, or bell pepper... for
seasoning I like Penzeys Italian herb blend, s n' p judiciously
(anyone want's heat serve hot pepper flakes at table). I don't care
for dairy in my a la bolognese (makes it SOS or a Campbells hot dish),
and not too much wine (actually I prefere a full bodied beer - one
12oz bottle to a 12 qt pot), I don't consider wine a culinary
ingredient, when heated it's no different from Welch's grape juice...
wine is for drinking only... lousy cooks add wine to a dish as if it
were the Emperor's new clothes... truth is wine improves no dish, if
it's cooked well wine can only hurt, if it's cooked lousy one can
always flaunt the wine lineage. This is a sauce that since it's a
whole day affair I'd prepare like 10-12 quarts, it freezes very well.
Naturally I have my little tricks, like adding the finely minced
parsley stems early and the minced leaves late.. I much prefer curly
leaf parsley in all cooking (for it's sweetness), I think the flat
leaf is too crude; weedy/bitter... I don't consider flat leaf parsley
a culinary ingredient, produce managers began stocking it because its
shelf life is about three times that of curly leaf... flat leaf
parsley is silage.

"brooklyn1" ha scritto nel messaggio

> What makes it great is what makes any dish great, quality ingredients> and
> the care taken by the cook.... make the effort to properly prep> all the
> ingredients rather than slaughtering them with the food> processor (it's
> just not possible to cook great dishes with a food
> processor) and apportion time to add each ingredient separately so all>
> are cooked properly at the same time. For this meat sauce I like to> use
> equal portions of coarsely ground beef and fresh Italian sausage,
> I use onion and garlic but no celery, carrot, or bell pepper... for>
> seasoning I like Penzeys Italian herb blend, s n' p judiciously> (anyone
> want's heat serve hot pepper flakes at table). I don't care
> for dairy in my a la bolognese (makes it SOS or a Campbells hot dish),>
> and not too much wine (actually I prefere a full bodied beer - one> 12oz
> bottle to a 12 qt pot), I don't consider wine a culinary> ingredient, when
> heated it's no different from Welch's grape juice...
> wine is for drinking only... lousy cooks add wine to a dish as if it> were
> the Emperor's new clothes... truth is wine improves no dish, if> it's
> cooked well wine can only hurt, if it's cooked lousy one can> always
> flaunt the wine lineage. This is a sauce that since it's a> whole day
> affair I'd prepare like 10-12 quarts, it freezes very well.
> Naturally I have my little tricks, like adding the finely minced> parsley
> stems early and the minced leaves late.. I much prefer curly> leaf parsley
> in all cooking (for it's sweetness), I think the flat> leaf is too crude;
> weedy/bitter... I don't consider flat leaf parsley
> a culinary ingredient, produce managers began stocking it because its>
> shelf life is about three times that of curly leaf... flat leaf> parsley
> is silage.

The foregoing ought to be engraved on a bronze plaque and conserved at the
Library of Congress as an example of much of what is wrong with American
cookery. Copies could be pressed and sent off to schools across the
country. At the same time it would be a good idea to provide Artusi's
article on ragù so kids would grow up understanding food science.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:49:15 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"brooklyn1" ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> What makes it great is what makes any dish great, quality ingredients> and
>> the care taken by the cook.... make the effort to properly prep> all the
>> ingredients rather than slaughtering them with the food> processor (it's
>> just not possible to cook great dishes with a food
>> processor) and apportion time to add each ingredient separately so all>
>> are cooked properly at the same time. For this meat sauce I like to> use
>> equal portions of coarsely ground beef and fresh Italian sausage,
>> I use onion and garlic but no celery, carrot, or bell pepper... for>
>> seasoning I like Penzeys Italian herb blend, s n' p judiciously> (anyone
>> want's heat serve hot pepper flakes at table). I don't care
>> for dairy in my a la bolognese (makes it SOS or a Campbells hot dish),>
>> and not too much wine (actually I prefere a full bodied beer - one> 12oz
>> bottle to a 12 qt pot), I don't consider wine a culinary> ingredient, when
>> heated it's no different from Welch's grape juice...
>> wine is for drinking only... lousy cooks add wine to a dish as if it> were
>> the Emperor's new clothes... truth is wine improves no dish, if> it's
>> cooked well wine can only hurt, if it's cooked lousy one can> always
>> flaunt the wine lineage. This is a sauce that since it's a> whole day
>> affair I'd prepare like 10-12 quarts, it freezes very well.
>> Naturally I have my little tricks, like adding the finely minced> parsley
>> stems early and the minced leaves late.. I much prefer curly> leaf parsley
>> in all cooking (for it's sweetness), I think the flat> leaf is too crude;
>> weedy/bitter... I don't consider flat leaf parsley
>> a culinary ingredient, produce managers began stocking it because its>
>> shelf life is about three times that of curly leaf... flat leaf> parsley
>> is silage.
>
>The foregoing ought to be engraved on a bronze plaque and conserved at the
>Library of Congress as an example of much of what is wrong with American
>cookery. Copies could be pressed and sent off to schools across the
>country. At the same time it would be a good idea to provide Artusi's
>article on ragù so kids would grow up understanding food science.
>
He said that just to get a response. To my knowledge, I'm the only
person who can't tell the difference between flat and curly other than
curly has a brighter flavor. I usually have flat leaf and cilantro in
the refrigerator at the same time... which is a problem for me because
they are similar visually. I have to look closely and sniff just to
make sure which is which.

--
I love cooking with wine.
Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On 2009-09-16, sf > wrote:

> person who can't tell the difference between flat and curly other than
> curly has a brighter flavor.

I've gone to using curly cuz flat, at least as sold in most markets I
patronize, is so flat and insipid as to have almost no flavor at all.
Problem is, who carries curly parsely, anymore.

nb

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:25:45 -0700, sf > wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:49:15 +0200, "Giusi" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"brooklyn1" ha scritto nel messaggio
>>
>>> What makes it great is what makes any dish great, quality ingredients> and
>>> the care taken by the cook.... make the effort to properly prep> all the
>>> ingredients rather than slaughtering them with the food> processor (it's
>>> just not possible to cook great dishes with a food
>>> processor) and apportion time to add each ingredient separately so all>
>>> are cooked properly at the same time. For this meat sauce I like to> use
>>> equal portions of coarsely ground beef and fresh Italian sausage,
>>> I use onion and garlic but no celery, carrot, or bell pepper... for>
>>> seasoning I like Penzeys Italian herb blend, s n' p judiciously> (anyone
>>> want's heat serve hot pepper flakes at table). I don't care
>>> for dairy in my a la bolognese (makes it SOS or a Campbells hot dish),>
>>> and not too much wine (actually I prefere a full bodied beer - one> 12oz
>>> bottle to a 12 qt pot), I don't consider wine a culinary> ingredient, when
>>> heated it's no different from Welch's grape juice...
>>> wine is for drinking only... lousy cooks add wine to a dish as if it> were
>>> the Emperor's new clothes... truth is wine improves no dish, if> it's
>>> cooked well wine can only hurt, if it's cooked lousy one can> always
>>> flaunt the wine lineage. This is a sauce that since it's a> whole day
>>> affair I'd prepare like 10-12 quarts, it freezes very well.
>>> Naturally I have my little tricks, like adding the finely minced> parsley
>>> stems early and the minced leaves late.. I much prefer curly> leaf parsley
>>> in all cooking (for it's sweetness), I think the flat> leaf is too crude;
>>> weedy/bitter... I don't consider flat leaf parsley
>>> a culinary ingredient, produce managers began stocking it because its>
>>> shelf life is about three times that of curly leaf... flat leaf> parsley
>>> is silage.
>>
>>The foregoing ought to be engraved on a bronze plaque and conserved at the
>>Library of Congress as an example of much of what is wrong with American
>>cookery. Copies could be pressed and sent off to schools across the
>>country. At the same time it would be a good idea to provide Artusi's
>>article on ragù so kids would grow up understanding food science.
>>
>He said that just to get a response. To my knowledge, I'm the only
>person who can't tell the difference between flat and curly other than
>curly has a brighter flavor. I usually have flat leaf and cilantro in
>the refrigerator at the same time... which is a problem for me because
>they are similar visually.
>
>I have to look closely and sniff just to make sure which is which.

You talkin' parsley or dildos? SF, you epitomize dumb ****.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:30:52 GMT, brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:25:45 -0700, sf > wrote:
>>>
>>He said that just to get a response. To my knowledge, I'm the only
>>person who can't tell the difference between flat and curly other than
>>curly has a brighter flavor. I usually have flat leaf and cilantro in
>>the refrigerator at the same time... which is a problem for me because
>>they are similar visually.
>>
>>I have to look closely and sniff just to make sure which is which.
>
> You talkin' parsley or dildos? SF, you epitomize dumb ****.

what kind of dildo do you like, sheldon? i guess in the navy you had no
use for such a thing, what with all the other sailors around.

blake

brooklyn1 wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:25:45 -0700, sf > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:49:15 +0200, "Giusi" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "brooklyn1" ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>
>>>> What makes it great is what makes any dish great, quality
>>>> ingredients> and the care taken by the cook.... make the effort to
>>>> properly prep> all the ingredients rather than slaughtering them
>>>> with the food> processor (it's just not possible to cook great
>>>> dishes with a food
>>>> processor) and apportion time to add each ingredient separately so
>>>> all> are cooked properly at the same time. For this meat sauce I
>>>> like to> use equal portions of coarsely ground beef and fresh
>>>> Italian sausage,
>>>> I use onion and garlic but no celery, carrot, or bell pepper...
>>>> for> seasoning I like Penzeys Italian herb blend, s n' p
>>>> judiciously> (anyone want's heat serve hot pepper flakes at
>>>> table). I don't care
>>>> for dairy in my a la bolognese (makes it SOS or a Campbells hot
>>>> dish),> and not too much wine (actually I prefere a full bodied
>>>> beer - one> 12oz bottle to a 12 qt pot), I don't consider wine a
>>>> culinary> ingredient, when heated it's no different from Welch's
>>>> grape juice...
>>>> wine is for drinking only... lousy cooks add wine to a dish as if
>>>> it> were the Emperor's new clothes... truth is wine improves no
>>>> dish, if> it's cooked well wine can only hurt, if it's cooked
>>>> lousy one can> always flaunt the wine lineage. This is a sauce
>>>> that since it's a> whole day affair I'd prepare like 10-12 quarts,
>>>> it freezes very well.
>>>> Naturally I have my little tricks, like adding the finely minced>
>>>> parsley stems early and the minced leaves late.. I much prefer
>>>> curly> leaf parsley in all cooking (for it's sweetness), I think
>>>> the flat> leaf is too crude; weedy/bitter... I don't consider flat
>>>> leaf parsley
>>>> a culinary ingredient, produce managers began stocking it because
>>>> its> shelf life is about three times that of curly leaf... flat
>>>> leaf> parsley is silage.
>>>
>>> The foregoing ought to be engraved on a bronze plaque and conserved
>>> at the Library of Congress as an example of much of what is wrong
>>> with American cookery. Copies could be pressed and sent off to
>>> schools across the country. At the same time it would be a good
>>> idea to provide Artusi's article on ragù so kids would grow up
>>> understanding food science.
>>>
>> He said that just to get a response. To my knowledge, I'm the only
>> person who can't tell the difference between flat and curly other
>> than curly has a brighter flavor. I usually have flat leaf and
>> cilantro in the refrigerator at the same time... which is a problem
>> for me because they are similar visually.
>>
>> I have to look closely and sniff just to make sure which is which.
>
> You talkin' parsley or dildos? SF, you epitomize dumb ****.


Honest to GAWD..."sf" can't visually tell the diff between the two parslies
and cilantro...

On her wedding night it musta been a real chore for her to try to
differentiate between her hubby's penis and the bed knob...in fact when when
her swain turned on the lights he exclaimed, " sf! Stop BLOWING the BED
KNOB...!!!"

There is so much BILGE on this froup that it should be re-monikered
"rec.food.jokes"...


--
Best
Greg

notbob wrote:

> We've been discussing lasagna and Tammy mentioned classic Bolognese
> sauce. It's been long enough that I don't recall the last time it was
> brought up.

Yes, more than a month ago. :-)

> What do you think makes a great Bolognese sauce. I read
> a pretty good sounding one in Saveur magazine using pork, beef, and
> lamb, cooked so long and slow even TX brisket Q'rs packed up and went
> home. Got any good recipes?

I once posted the quasi-official recipe by the Accademia Italiana della
Cucina. Here it is again, with lasagne, from the translation of _Il
grande libro della cucina italiana_ compiled by the Accademia:

Victor

Lasagne bolognesi

for the pasta:
2 eggs
250 g (2 1/4 cups) all-purpose flour

for the besciamella sauce:
60 g (1/4 cup) butter
4 tablespoons all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
1 l (4 cups) milk

for the meat sauce:
300 g (10 oz) ragù (see below)
50 g (2 oz) dried mushrooms soaked in warm water
1 clove garlic
1 cup milk
2 tablespoons chopped parsley
2 tablespoons butter
100 g (1/2 cup) Parmesan cheese, grated
40 g (1/4 cup) butter

Prepare the pasta:
Stir the flour into a mound and break the eggs into the centre. Add a
pinch of salt and mix the ingredients together slowly with a fork or
your fingertips. Knead well for about 10 minutes until the dough is
smooth and elastic (you should see air bubbles when you cut the dough).
Leave to stand for 1/4 hour wrapped in a floured cloth. Roll out into a
fairly thin sheet, working from the centre outward, making sure that the
pasta is of even thickness. Leave to dry for up to 1/2 hour. Roll up
the sheet of pasta and cut out the lasagne with a sharp knife.

Make the salsa besciamella:
Cut the butter into small pieces and let melt in a heavy saucepan. Stir
in the flour with a wooden spoon, add the salt and mix over medium heat
until smooth. Gradually add the milk, stirring constantly until the
sauce has thickened.

Make the ragù alla bolognese:
50 g (2 oz) pancetta
1 medium onion
1 small carrot
1 stick celery
50 g (1/4 cup) butter
200 g (3/4 cups) ground mixed meats (pork, veal, beef)
1/2 cup dry red wine
2 tablespoons tomato sauce (see below)
1 teaspoon meat extract
salt
freshly ground pepper
1 cup milk

Chop the pancetta very finely with the onion, carrot and celery. Melt
the butter in a heavy saucepan; when it is bubbling, add the chopped
vegetables and the ground meats. Brown for a few minutes, turn up the
heat and pour in the red wine. When this has completely evaporated, add
the tomato sauce, diluted in a little hot water, and the dissolved meat
extract. Season with salt and pepper as required. Cover and leave to
simmer over low heat for 30-40 minutes until the sauce is quite thick.
Pour in the milk, stir well, cover and simmer over very low heat until
the milk is absorbed.

To make the tomato sauce:
300 g (2 cups) ripe or canned plum tomatoes, chopped
1 small carrot
1 small onion
1 stick celery
2 basil leaves (optional)
1/2 clove garlic
1 1/8 cups olive oil
salt
freshly ground pepper

Choose ripe, plump and juicy summer tomatoes for this sauce. Rinse
thoroughly, chop, salt lightly and leave to sweat in a colander placed
over a bowl. Sauté the chopped vegetables, basil and garlic in a heavy
skillet in a few tablespoons of oil. Add the tomatoes immediately,
bring to a boil and cook over moderate heat for about 1/2 hour. When
the tomatoes are no longer watery, strain in a vegetable mill or blend
in a food processor. If the sauce is too thin, reduce by cooking
briefly over high heat. Check the seasoning and add some more oil and a
little sugar if desired. Pour into a sauceboat when hot.

Now prepare the lasagne:
Drain the soaked mushrooms, squeeze out excess moisture and slice. Peel
1 clove garlic and leave whole. Fry in a small skillet. When it has
browned, discard it and add the mushrooms, salt, milk and parsley. Cook
slowly for approximately 1/4 hour. Butter a round pan about 20 cm/8 in
in diameter. Arrange a layer of pasta over the base followed by a layer
of white sauce and one of meat sauce, replacing the meat sauce with the
mushrooms on 2 or 3 layers (this permits the flavour of mushrooms to be
appreciated). Sprinkle with grated Parmesan. Repeat until all the
ingredients have been used up. Finish with a layer of pasta, a few
tablespoons of meat sauce, a few pieces of butter and a sprinkling of
Parmesan. Cook in a hot oven (about 180°C/350°F) for approximately 1
hour until the top is slightly crispy.