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General Cooking (rec.food.cooking) For general food and cooking discussion. Foods of all kinds, food procurement, cooking methods and techniques, eating, etc. |
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![]() > wrote in message ... > Debit and credit cards have been around for ages now. So why do people > still pay by check which is: > > Time-consuming > Error-prone > Expensive (checks aren't cheap) > > Plus checks are a hassle for the grocery stores to deal with. They > just pass the cost on to the consumer through higher prices > > I can't think of any developed nation that still relies on checks for > day-to-day consumer transactions. > > 90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls out the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. On good days she remembered to get the checkbook out she starts to write the check when the tally comes up. Then she laboriously enters everything in the checkbook before the teller gets the check. It takes *seconds for the teller to clear the check, and finally we're off. It really ****es me off, as you can tell. Hugh |
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Hugh wrote:
> 90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls out > the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. On good days > she remembered to get the checkbook out she starts to write the check when > the tally comes up. Then she laboriously enters everything in the > checkbook before the teller gets the check. It takes *seconds for the > teller to clear the check, and finally we're off. > > It really ****es me off, as you can tell. One of the advantages of shopping in the wee small hours of sixpence is that there's usually no line at all. Bob |
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On Thu, 21 May 2009 21:11:56 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote: >One of the advantages of shopping in the wee small hours of sixpence is that >there's usually no line at all. Come to SF and try that. ![]() Let me tell you about the time I was in a huge grocery store at midnight with every lane open and had to wait *45* minutes in line. All the lines were slow, mine was no different from the others.... lots of people had stuffed their shopping carts. Needless to say, I didn't try that again. -- I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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On Thu 21 May 2009 10:32:46p, sf told us...
> On Thu, 21 May 2009 21:11:56 -0700, "Bob Terwilliger" > > wrote: > >>One of the advantages of shopping in the wee small hours of sixpence is >>that there's usually no line at all. > > Come to SF and try that. ![]() > > Let me tell you about the time I was in a huge grocery store at > midnight with every lane open and had to wait *45* minutes in line. > All the lines were slow, mine was no different from the others.... > lots of people had stuffed their shopping carts. Needless to say, I > didn't try that again. > Luckily that tactic works where I live. There are generally three ideal times of the day to go shopping in my area; 6:00 a.m., 5:30 p.m., and after 11:00 p.m. -- Wayne Boatwright ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all. ~Harriet van Horne |
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Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Hugh wrote: > > 90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls out > > the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. On good days > > she remembered to get the checkbook out she starts to write the check when > > the tally comes up. Then she laboriously enters everything in the > > checkbook before the teller gets the check. It takes *seconds for the > > teller to clear the check, and finally we're off. > > > It really ****es me off, as you can tell. > > One of the advantages of shopping in the wee small hours of sixpence is that > there's usually no line at all. One of the advantages of using an online grocery delivery service like Peapod or whatever is not having to put up with some idjit wasting one's time whilst shopping. Much less stressful...if there were more than one in my household I'd use it routinely, even exclusively. I know families that have not set foot in a grocery store for years now, it's a great convenience for them. One of the stupormarkets here has self - checkout, which in theory should work fairly smoothly, but in practice the few times I've used it there has always been some mishegos with the person in front of me, so it's back to the standard checkout line for me. I tend to be a "power shopper", e.g, I have a specific list, I don't dawdle, I get in and out fast even with a lot of stuff. I have my wallet out, my coupons or store card if any ready to hand to the clerk, if I'm paying cash I have some spare change in hand if needed so I don't get excess pennies back, etcetera...I am *organized*! One place I've noticed where people don't waste time or block others' way are the Asian markets I go to, those folks dive right in, get what they need, and even an extended Asian family with several carts are generally quicker to check out than anyone I've ever seen - especially the spoiled yuppies who infest my nabe. The Asian markets can be an absolute zoo on the weekend and I'm in and out quickly, for some reason the Asian shopping experience is practically stress - free for me...just don't get in the way of some of those older Asian ladies who are shopping, they are *fierce*! -- Best Greg |
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If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the
check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. |
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pamjd wrote:
> If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the > check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. "Repent, Harlequin!" said the Ticktockman. Bob, mrmee, mrmee, mrmee |
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On May 22, 7:15*am, "Bob Terwilliger" >
wrote: > pamjd wrote: > > If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the > > check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. > > "Repent, Harlequin!" said the Ticktockman. ooh! I haven't thought of Ellison in years. Thanks for the reminder. maxine in ri |
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![]() pamjd wrote: > If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the > check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. Are you addressing me? If so it's proper netiquette to properly format your posts, and that includes quoting the relevant points which you are responding to... If you are not replying to me, then my apologies... :-) Anyways, my time is *valuable*. It's valuable because, 1) It's *my* time and and I only have so much time allotted me on this earth, and, 2) it's very easy to take away another's time - but *impossible* to "give" time back - unless a time machine is developed. And yeah, "five minutes" is a big waste of my time in a check-out lane. Next time you are in a check-out lane simply stand there doing nothing and time yerself for five minutes. It will go by agonizingly slowly - especially for those behind you... I make a point not to waste another's time in the course of daily public life, I don't think it's asking too much for others to show me that same consideration. It's called "good manners"... -- Best Greg "The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."~~~~Margaret Thatcher |
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On Fri, 22 May 2009 06:35:04 -0500, Gregory Morrow wrote:
> pamjd wrote: > >> If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the >> check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. > > Are you addressing me? If so it's proper netiquette to properly format your > posts, and that includes quoting the relevant points which you are > responding to... > > If you are not replying to me, then my apologies... > > :-) > > Anyways, my time is *valuable*. It's valuable because, 1) It's *my* time > and and I only have so much time allotted me on this earth, and, 2) it's > very easy to take away another's time - but *impossible* to "give" time > back - unless a time machine is developed. > > And yeah, "five minutes" is a big waste of my time in a check-out lane. > Next time you are in a check-out lane simply stand there doing nothing and > time yerself for five minutes. It will go by agonizingly slowly - > especially for those behind you... > bring something to read. jeez, if you can't entertain yourself for five minutes... blake |
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pamjd wrote:
> If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the > check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. Hear! Hear! |
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![]() "George Shirley" > wrote in message ... > pamjd wrote: >> If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the >> check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. > Hear! Hear! You must be retired. I don't mind waiting under "normal" circumstances, but when one is behind a bumbling idiot, I tend to get annoyed. |
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pamjd wrote:
> If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. delay in the > check out lane perhaps you are too darn busy. Check writers aren't a huge issue at the places I shop for groceries. And you're right, a 5 minute delay caused by a discombobulated check writer isn't usually a big deal. But I have learned to absolutely dread shopping at the local Joanne's Fabric and Crafts. My god, those are some check-writin' customers. And apparently none of them expect to be required to actually pay for their purchases until the entire thing has been rung up. And those 5 minute delays are cummulative. |
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Kathleen > wrote in message
... > pamjd wrote: >> If grocery shopipng is such a chore you resent a 5 min. >> delay in the check out lane perhaps you are too darn >> busy. >> > Check writers aren't a huge issue at the places I shop > for groceries. And you're right, a 5 minute delay caused > by a discombobulated check writer isn't usually a big deal. I love Costco's method for checks: Pull out a blank check, hand it over to the cashier, they print the name and amount on the face of the check, you verify and then sign it. It's a process that takes a few seconds and prevents problems. NO ONE else offers it! When I talked to the manager at Smart and Final, he laughed and said, "Yeah. That's a cool service; I love it, too. We won't ever offer it because Costco does it." > But I have learned to absolutely dread shopping at the > local Joanne's Fabric and Crafts. My god, those are > some check-writin' customers. And apparently none > of them expect to be required to actually pay for their purchases until > the entire thing has been rung up. And > those 5 minute delays are cummulative. Most of Joann* F&C's customers are elderly, or non-English speaking immigrants (depending on which part of town you frequent), coupon-using rules lawyers. They _watch_ that register display and will HAGGLE when they see what they feel is the wrong amount go up! Fer example, Daughter-unit Alpha needed some stuff for a project she is making. We hit a Joann's local to us. I saw the short-bus parked across six slots in front of the store; it read, "Green Acre's Senior Independent Living Center." I groaned aloud and pointed at it. "I need those items, Dad. It'll be fine." I knew it wasn't going to "be fine" but parked and got out. As the autodoors swung open, the noise from the bedlam washed out and over us both. The cutting tables were fully-staffed and the column of seniors ran back ten deep. The notions area was humming with the click of walkers and alumimum canes. The pattern area looked like a coffee shop at class break as every chair carried a senior "rester." The discount table (where odd-lots or discontinued fabrics are set) was torn up and mawled from the invasion. I looked at Alpha again to see if we could come back later but she took a deep breath, set her shoulders, and forged ahead. She knew the store better than many of the employees and quickly got her collection of items together. As we stood in the single line to the six working registers, I started noticing each senior arguing prices, coupon discounts, etc. The two managers were moving between the stations and calmly reasoning with each patron but always saying the same thing. 70 minutes later, we emerged but the study in human dynamics involved in every transaction was stunning. * http://www.joann.com/joann/index.jsp The Ranger |
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Kathleen wrote:
> But I have learned to absolutely dread shopping at the local Joanne's > Fabric and Crafts. My god, those are some check-writin' customers. And > apparently none of them expect to be required to actually pay for their > purchases until the entire thing has been rung up. And those 5 minute > delays are cummulative. You too?!!! I despise shopping at Joann's. Unfortunately, for my masking supplies they are one of the few games in town. The "cattle call" for getting fabric and trim cut is bad enough -- and the check-out lines are hideous. Just about everyone here pays with cards, but still -- all those little bits of everything take a while to ring up. I should know -- I'm one of the major offenders. ;-) I haven't written a check for anything in nearly two years and it does grate on me a bit when I have to stand in line at the grocers behind someone who does. Besides the wait, I'm muttering to myself "I can't believe in this day and age they aren't using a card!" Then I take into consideration the age -- we do have a bazillion Del Webb retirement communities here. Taking a deep breath I find my moment of Zen. But, I think it helps me to practice patience (because if patience were a virtue, I have none). Sometimes I'll turn to the person behind me and start a conversation. This only applies in the grocery store. Most of the folks in line at Joann's are about as cranky as I am at that place and only want to GTF out. --Lin |
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![]() "Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message ... > Bob Terwilliger wrote: > >> Hugh wrote: >> > 90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls >> > out >> > the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. On good >> > days >> > she remembered to get the checkbook out she starts to write the check >> > when >> > the tally comes up. Then she laboriously enters everything in the >> > checkbook before the teller gets the check. It takes *seconds for the >> > teller to clear the check, and finally we're off. >> >> > It really ****es me off, as you can tell. >> >> One of the advantages of shopping in the wee small hours of sixpence is >> that >> there's usually no line at all. > > > One of the advantages of using an online grocery delivery service like > Peapod or whatever is not having to put up with some idjit wasting > one's time whilst shopping. Much less stressful...if there were more > than one in my household I'd use it routinely, even exclusively. I > know families that have not set foot in a grocery store for years now, > it's a great convenience for them. > > One of the stupormarkets here has self - checkout, which in theory > should work fairly smoothly, but in practice the few times I've used > it there has always been some mishegos with the person in front of me, > so it's back to the standard checkout line for me. I tend to be a > "power shopper", e.g, I have a specific list, I don't dawdle, I get in > and out fast even with a lot of stuff. I have my wallet out, my > coupons or store card if any ready to hand to the clerk, if I'm paying > cash I have some spare change in hand if needed so I don't get excess > pennies back, etcetera...I am *organized*! I've had nothing but issues with self-checkout lines. Invariably, something wont scan correctly or something is so light it wont register on the scale where you bag stuff so the machine just repeats over and over 'please place the item in the bagging area'. BJ's is the worst. They have 1o self checkout lines and 1 or 2 live checkers. Every time I use the self checkout either something won't scan or the belt kicks it back saying the landing area is jammed. It is usually 5 minutes before I can get someone's attention to get it cleared and be on my way. Self checkout is really bad for my blood pressure. Jon |
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Zeppo wrote:
> I've had nothing but issues with self-checkout lines. Invariably, > something wont scan correctly or something is so light it wont > register on the scale where you bag stuff so the machine just repeats > over and over 'please place the item in the bagging area'. > > BJ's is the worst. They have 1o self checkout lines and 1 or 2 live > checkers. Every time I use the self checkout either something won't > scan or the belt kicks it back saying the landing area is jammed. It > is usually 5 minutes before I can get someone's attention to get it > cleared and be on my way. > > Self checkout is really bad for my blood pressure. Strange, self-checkout is almost everywhere here where I live and I almost never had an issue with it. Maybe it's because there's a cashier also at the checkout lane who can manually input the bar-code number in the cash machine? I know there are a couple products which won't scan correctly, so I just tell it to the cashier and all is right. Quick, very quick. -- Vilco Mai guardare Trailer park Boys senza qualcosa da bere a portata di mano |
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Zeppo wrote on Fri, 22 May 2009 09:55:14 -0400:
*! > I've had nothing but issues with self-checkout lines. > Invariably, something wont scan correctly or something is so > light it wont register on the scale where you bag stuff so the > machine just repeats over and over 'please place the item in > the bagging area'. > Self checkout is really bad for my blood pressure. I'll admit that I tend to avoid self-checkout lines mainly because I usually have to look up the codes for many types of produce. I also admit that, if the scale refuses to measure because the weight is too small, I just chuck the item into the bag. -- James Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not |
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On May 22, 8:55 am, "Zeppo" > wrote:
> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote in message > > ... > > > > > Bob Terwilliger wrote: > > >> Hugh wrote: > >> > 90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls > >> > out > >> > the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. On good > >> > days > >> > she remembered to get the checkbook out she starts to write the check > >> > when > >> > the tally comes up. Then she laboriously enters everything in the > >> > checkbook before the teller gets the check. It takes *seconds for the > >> > teller to clear the check, and finally we're off. > > >> > It really ****es me off, as you can tell. > > >> One of the advantages of shopping in the wee small hours of sixpence is > >> that > >> there's usually no line at all. > > > One of the advantages of using an online grocery delivery service like > > Peapod or whatever is not having to put up with some idjit wasting > > one's time whilst shopping. Much less stressful...if there were more > > than one in my household I'd use it routinely, even exclusively. I > > know families that have not set foot in a grocery store for years now, > > it's a great convenience for them. > > > One of the stupormarkets here has self - checkout, which in theory > > should work fairly smoothly, but in practice the few times I've used > > it there has always been some mishegos with the person in front of me, > > so it's back to the standard checkout line for me. I tend to be a > > "power shopper", e.g, I have a specific list, I don't dawdle, I get in > > and out fast even with a lot of stuff. I have my wallet out, my > > coupons or store card if any ready to hand to the clerk, if I'm paying > > cash I have some spare change in hand if needed so I don't get excess > > pennies back, etcetera...I am *organized*! > > I've had nothing but issues with self-checkout lines. Invariably, something > wont scan correctly or something is so light it wont register on the scale > where you bag stuff so the machine just repeats over and over 'please place > the item in the bagging area'. > > BJ's is the worst. They have 1o self checkout lines and 1 or 2 live > checkers. Every time I use the self checkout either something won't scan or > the belt kicks it back saying the landing area is jammed. It is usually 5 > minutes before I can get someone's attention to get it cleared and be on my > way. > > Self checkout is really bad for my blood pressure. > > Jon Here's a clue about weightless items going into bags and not registering as being in the bags yet .... when you put it in the bag, thump your hand or fist down with it on the bottom of the bag - instant recognition and no more annoying audio repeats. N. |
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I take offence about the remarks Bob made about senior or near senior
women and the time they take writing their checks for groceries. One of these days he will be a senior also (if he's not already, and too vain to admit it).A nd yes ,Bob, MEN do it also. So the next time it ****es you off, stop and think that could be my MOTHER or some other family member, even you. Proud to be a senior. Ruby Ward |
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"R Ward" > wrote
>I take offence about the remarks Bob made about senior or near senior > women and the time they take writing their checks for groceries. One of > these days he will be a senior also (if he's not already, and too vain > to admit it).A nd yes ,Bob, MEN do it also. So the next time it ****es > you off, stop and think that could be my MOTHER or some other family > member, even you. Proud to be a senior. > Ruby Ward Not to worry Ruby. You'll see most are in agreement with you on this. |
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cshenk wrote:
> "R Ward" > wrote > >> I take offence about the remarks Bob made about senior or near senior >> women and the time they take writing their checks for groceries. One of >> these days he will be a senior also (if he's not already, and too vain >> to admit it).A nd yes ,Bob, MEN do it also. So the next time it ****es >> you off, stop and think that could be my MOTHER or some other family >> member, even you. Proud to be a senior. >> Ruby Ward > > Not to worry Ruby. You'll see most are in agreement with you on this. I am not. Sure, I may live to be old, but I hope that I never find myself out in public so befuddled that I stand at a check out counter watching my purchases being run up and don't have the good sense to have my wallet out ready to pay. Sorry, but I see it all the time, usually with old ladies. They will stand there until the total comes up before they even start to think about looking for their money, cards or cheques. |
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Dave Smith wrote:
> I am not. Sure, I may live to be old, but I hope that I never find > myself out in public so befuddled that I stand at a check out counter > watching my purchases being run up and don't have the good sense to have > my wallet out ready to pay. Sorry, but I see it all the time, usually > with old ladies. They will stand there until the total comes up before > they even start to think about looking for their money, cards or cheques. Conversely, consumers groups (and RFC in the past) suggest one pay attention to the prices as they are rung up lest the cashier has made a mistake. It seems if one does one thing they're damned, and doing another, damned again <shrug> |
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![]() "Dave Smith" > wrote in message m... >> I am not. Sure, I may live to be old, but I hope that I never find > myself out in public so befuddled that I stand at a check out counter > watching my purchases being run up and don't have the good sense to have > my wallet out ready to pay. Sorry, but I see it all the time, usually with > old ladies. They will stand there until the total comes up before they > even start to think about looking for their money, cards or cheques. I was in line in Kroger the other day and an elderly Asian man was checking out. He was paying for his groceries with change, but he would put some things aside and have her ring it up first. At the time I thought he didn't have enough money to pay for his purchases. I wanted to help but didn't know what to do so I just stood there. Several days later I thought of something. I could have 'dropped' a crumpled bill on the floor and 'retrieved' it for him. I live in Houston and we have a large Vietnamese population. |
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On Sat, 23 May 2009 14:22:51 -0400, Dave Smith wrote:
> cshenk wrote: >> "R Ward" > wrote >> >>> I take offence about the remarks Bob made about senior or near senior >>> women and the time they take writing their checks for groceries. One of >>> these days he will be a senior also (if he's not already, and too vain >>> to admit it).A nd yes ,Bob, MEN do it also. So the next time it ****es >>> you off, stop and think that could be my MOTHER or some other family >>> member, even you. Proud to be a senior. >>> Ruby Ward >> >> Not to worry Ruby. You'll see most are in agreement with you on this. > > I am not. Sure, I may live to be old, but I hope that I never find > myself out in public so befuddled that I stand at a check out counter > watching my purchases being run up and don't have the good sense to have > my wallet out ready to pay. Sorry, but I see it all the time, usually > with old ladies. They will stand there until the total comes up before > they even start to think about looking for their money, cards or cheques. too bad we can't put them out on ice floes, as in days of yore. blake |
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R Ward wrote:
> I take offence about the remarks Bob made about senior or near senior > women and the time they take writing their checks for groceries. One of > these days he will be a senior also (if he's not already, and too vain > to admit it).A nd yes ,Bob, MEN do it also. So the next time it ****es > you off, stop and think that could be my MOTHER or some other family > member, even you. Proud to be a senior. > Ruby Ward Uh, Ruby ... you might need to get your attributions straight. The only "Bob" to reply to this thread is my Bob, and all he did was mention how shopping in the wee hours of the morning was an advantage, and then made a reference to a Harlan Ellison book. Perhaps you are having a "senior moment" and confusing names with notbob or Bobo Bonobo -- I mean both have b-o-b in them. --Lin (Bob gets the blame even when he doesn't deserve it ;-) |
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Lin > wrote in message
.. . [snip] > Perhaps you are having a "senior moment" and confusing > names with notbob or Bobo Bonobo -- I mean both have > b-o-b in them. And the later is a real B-O-O-B. The Ranger |
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On 2009-05-23, The Ranger > wrote:
> Lin > wrote in message > .. . > [snip] >> Perhaps you are having a "senior moment" and confusing >> names with notbob or Bobo Bonobo -- I mean both have >> b-o-b in them. > > And the later is a real B-O-O-B. > > The Ranger Do I detect a left(out) handed compliment? ![]() nb |
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On May 23, 6:05*pm, "The Ranger" > wrote:
> Lin > wrote in message > > .. . > [snip] > > > Perhaps you are having a "senior moment" and confusing > > names with notbob or Bobo Bonobo -- I mean both have > > b-o-b in them. > > And the later is a real B-O-O-B. Gee, aren't you clever. You'd make an excellent third grader. > > The Ranger --Bryan |
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Ruby wrote from WebTV:
> I take offence about the remarks Bob made about senior or near senior > women and the time they take writing their checks for groceries. Hugh's the one who wrote that. I don't take offense to your misguided remarks about me. I'm sure WebTV is to blame for your befuddlement. Bob |
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On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:56:50 -0700, "Hugh" >
wrote: > > wrote in message ... >> Debit and credit cards have been around for ages now. So why do people >> still pay by check which is: >> >> Time-consuming >> Error-prone >> Expensive (checks aren't cheap) >> >> Plus checks are a hassle for the grocery stores to deal with. They >> just pass the cost on to the consumer through higher prices >> >> I can't think of any developed nation that still relies on checks for >> day-to-day consumer transactions. >> >> >90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls out >the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. On good days she >remembered to get the checkbook out she starts to write the check when the >tally comes up. Then she laboriously enters everything in the checkbook >before the teller gets the check. It takes *seconds for the teller to clear >the check, and finally we're off. > >It really ****es me off, as you can tell. > Yeah, your time is sooo valuable. If it is, why are you wasting it here? -- I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:56:50 -0700, "Hugh" >
wrote: >It really ****es me off, as you can tell. Again, if you owned a grocery store, and your operating on a bare margin ( a few cents for every dollar received) I don't think you would be as upset. You'd welcome checks. Concentrate on the express lines. Bodily harm to those who exceed the limits. ![]() -- mad |
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![]() "Mack A. Damia" > wrote in message ... > On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:56:50 -0700, "Hugh" > > wrote: > >>It really ****es me off, as you can tell. > > Again, if you owned a grocery store, and your operating on a bare > margin ( a few cents for every dollar received) I don't think you > would be as upset. You'd welcome checks. Paper ones yes, but many turn to rubber. I think the new systems eliminate some of those problems now when they scan the check. |
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On Thu, 21 May 2009 20:56:50 -0700, "Hugh" >
wrote: > 90% of the time it's done by a senior, or semi-senior woman who pulls out > the checkbook only when the tally comes up on the register. In the UK there are few places that take cheques any more. In 2007 debit cards over took cash as the preferred means of payment with 37% against 34% with credit cards, store cards and accounts making up the rest. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...cash-time.html The cheque seems to be reserved for postal use, but online banking is making inroads even there. Matthew -- Mail to this account goes to the bit bucket. In the unlikely event you want to mail me replace usenet with my name |
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