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Ed Pawlowski 02-11-2008 12:35 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
"Spring to action and Fall ahead"



jmcquown[_2_] 02-11-2008 12:51 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"


In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could fall
forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government decicded we
have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for Arizona where
they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!

Jill


Dave Smith[_1_] 02-11-2008 01:01 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>


No, but I did remember to set my clocks BACK one hour.
Spring forward... Fall back.


Andy[_15_] 02-11-2008 01:14 PM

Clocks ahead
 
jmcquown said...

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>
> In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could
> fall forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government
> decicded we have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for
> Arizona where they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
>
> Jill



JILL!!!???


Gill Smith 02-11-2008 01:19 PM

Clocks ahead
 
"Andy" > wrote in message ...
> jmcquown said...
>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>>
>> In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could
>> fall forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government
>> decicded we have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for
>> Arizona where they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
>>
>> Jill

>
>
> JILL!!!???


No. The other Jill.





>>>>>>>>>>>-----------------------<<<<<<<<<<<


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lzSPAl3l5tc

http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

>>>>>>>>>>>-----------------------<<<<<<<<<<<




jmcquown[_2_] 02-11-2008 01:29 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Dave Smith wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>>

>
> No, but I did remember to set my clocks BACK one hour.
> Spring forward... Fall back.



Uh, yeah. Fall BACK. I still don't know why we're doing this.

Jill

Andy[_15_] 02-11-2008 01:36 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Gill Smith said...

> "Andy" > wrote in message news:Xns9B4A5DA4F33DECotD@

85.214.105.209...
>> jmcquown said...
>>
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>>>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>>>
>>> In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could
>>> fall forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government
>>> decicded we have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for
>>> Arizona where they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
>>>
>>> Jill

>>
>>
>> JILL!!!???

>
> No. The other Jill.



Gill? Jill?

I might as well be down the tracks somewhere if I didn't know better. :)

Andy BUM!!!

P.S. Loves Jill! --A

Omelet[_7_] 02-11-2008 01:46 PM

Clocks ahead
 
In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"


Ps, thanks for the reminder. I just went back to synchronized network
time and need to reset my cellphone.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Omelet[_7_] 02-11-2008 01:48 PM

Clocks ahead
 
In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> > Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
> > saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>
> In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could fall
> forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government decicded we
> have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for Arizona where
> they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
>
> Jill


I envy you. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Bob Terwilliger[_1_] 02-11-2008 01:51 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Om replied:

> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
>> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>
> Uh uh. It's Spring forward, fall back.
>
> You needed to turn your clocks BACK one hour.



I'm guessing that Ed was playing a little joke...which was RUINED by you and
Jill!

Bob


Omelet[_7_] 02-11-2008 02:03 PM

Clocks ahead
 
In article >,
"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote:

> Om replied:
>
> > "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> >
> >> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> >> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

> >
> > Uh uh. It's Spring forward, fall back.
> >
> > You needed to turn your clocks BACK one hour.

>
>
> I'm guessing that Ed was playing a little joke...which was RUINED by you and
> Jill!
>
> Bob


It's way past April dear. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Paul M. Cook 02-11-2008 02:18 PM

Clocks ahead
 

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Om replied:
>
>> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>>
>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
>>> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>>
>> Uh uh. It's Spring forward, fall back.
>>
>> You needed to turn your clocks BACK one hour.

>
>
> I'm guessing that Ed was playing a little joke...which was RUINED by you
> and
> Jill!
>


If he was it wasn't as good as this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMV0LKlVj8I

"on pourrait tuer des bébés phoques aussi"

mwahahahahaha!!!!

Paul



Omelet[_7_] 02-11-2008 02:43 PM

Clocks ahead
 
In article >,
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"


Uh uh. It's Spring forward, fall back.

You needed to turn your clocks BACK one hour.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

blake murphy[_2_] 02-11-2008 02:49 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:46:26 -0600, Omelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
>> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>
> Ps, thanks for the reminder. I just went back to synchronized network
> time and need to reset my cellphone.


i retrieved my machine from the atlantic ocean. did i get any thanks? no,
i did not. ungrateful brute.

your pal,
blake

Omelet[_7_] 02-11-2008 03:10 PM

Clocks ahead
 
In article >,
blake murphy > wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 07:46:26 -0600, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> >
> >> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> >> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

> >
> > Ps, thanks for the reminder. I just went back to synchronized network
> > time and need to reset my cellphone.

>
> i retrieved my machine from the atlantic ocean. did i get any thanks? no,
> i did not. ungrateful brute.
>
> your pal,
> blake


You need to modify it's startup protocol. ;-)

OB food: Roasting a pan of 10 turkey legs right now. The house smells
good. Also some beef heart soup with carrots, onion, celery and garlic.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

Gregory Morrow[_116_] 02-11-2008 03:50 PM

Clocks ahead
 



blAndy blabbled:

> Gill Smith said...
>
> > "Andy" > wrote in message news:Xns9B4A5DA4F33DECotD@

> 85.214.105.209...
> >> jmcquown said...
> >>
> >>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
> >>>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
> >>>
> >>> In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I

could
> >>> fall forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government
> >>> decicded we have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah

for
> >>> Arizona where they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
> >>>
> >>> Jill
> >>
> >>
> >> JILL!!!???

> >
> > No. The other Jill.

>
>
> Gill? Jill?
>
> I might as well be down the tracks somewhere if I didn't know better. :)
>
> Andy BUM!!!
>
> P.S. Loves Jill! --A



blAndy tells the time by the angle of the sun bouncing off the shadow of the
propeller atop his beanie...


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking



hahabogus 02-11-2008 04:05 PM

Clocks ahead
 
"jmcquown" > wrote in news:6n5oamFjia3lU1
@mid.individual.net:

> Dave Smith wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>>>

>>
>> No, but I did remember to set my clocks BACK one hour.
>> Spring forward... Fall back.

>
>
> Uh, yeah. Fall BACK. I still don't know why we're doing this.
>
> Jill
>


I got me one of those radio controlled clocks....The radio keeps the clock
set properly to the correct time summer, winter, spring and fall...Lee
vallry sells them. I stayed up the first time it was going to correct for
cdt just to watch...I need a life. I also was enthrolled by my front load
washer and watched it the first few times....

--

The beet goes on -Alan




Goomba[_2_] 02-11-2008 05:33 PM

Clocks ahead
 
hahabogus wrote:
I also was enthrolled by my front load
> washer and watched it the first few times....
>

Hey.. I was too!! Did the same thing... lol.

Dave Smith[_1_] 02-11-2008 05:41 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Goomba wrote:
> hahabogus wrote:
> I also was enthrolled by my front load
>> washer and watched it the first few times....
>>

> Hey.. I was too!! Did the same thing... lol.


I had to watch mine to make sure that it was running because it was so
much quieter than the old one.

Wayne Boatwright[_5_] 02-11-2008 06:00 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun 02 Nov 2008 09:05:41a, hahabogus told us...

> I got me one of those radio controlled clocks....The radio keeps the

clock
> set properly to the correct time summer, winter, spring and fall...Lee
> vallry sells them. I stayed up the first time it was going to correct for
> cdt just to watch...I need a life. I also was enthrolled by my front load
> washer and watched it the first few times....


Simple pleasures! :)

We have two clock radios that do that, which are initially set by selecting
the time zone. The bad part is, there is no “Arizona” time zone listed, so
we have to do the opposite with setting the clocks with the beginning and
ending of DST. The easiest way is to simply toggle back and forth between
time zones rather than actually resetting the time itself.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Sunday, 11(XI)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Today is: All Souls Day
Countdown till Veteran's Day
1wks 1dys 13hrs 5mins
*******************************************
CURSOR: What you become when your

Sarah[_1_] 02-11-2008 06:04 PM

Clocks ahead
 

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> hahabogus wrote:
> I also was enthrolled by my front load
>> washer and watched it the first few times....
>>

> Hey.. I was too!! Did the same thing... lol.


They're great for hypnotizing a baby to sleep! Just sit them in their little
bouncy chair in front of the washer, press the start button and within 10
minutes they're fast on!!!

Sarah


Wayne Boatwright[_5_] 02-11-2008 06:04 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun 02 Nov 2008 08:50:57a, Gregory Morrow told us...

>
>
>
> blAndy blabbled:
>
>> Gill Smith said...
>>
>> > "Andy" > wrote in message news:Xns9B4A5DA4F33DECotD@

>> 85.214.105.209...
>> >> jmcquown said...
>> >>
>> >>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>> >>>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>> >>>
>> >>> In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I

> could
>> >>> fall forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or
>> >>> government decicded we have to change the friggin clocks twice a
>> >>> year? Hurrah

> for
>> >>> Arizona where they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
>> >>>
>> >>> Jill
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> JILL!!!???
>> >
>> > No. The other Jill.

>>
>>
>> Gill? Jill?
>>
>> I might as well be down the tracks somewhere if I didn't know better.
>> :)
>>
>> Andy BUM!!!
>>
>> P.S. Loves Jill! --A

>
>
> blAndy tells the time by the angle of the sun bouncing off the shadow of
> the propeller atop his beanie...
>
>


That could be a problem on a windy day.

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)

*******************************************
Date: Sunday, 11(XI)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
*******************************************
Today is: All Souls Day
Countdown till Veteran's Day
1wks 1dys 12hrs 57mins
*******************************************
Bela Lugosi's dead. How about you?

Pete C. 02-11-2008 06:19 PM

Clocks ahead
 

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"


In the IT world we're well aware of this stupidity. Fortunately a fair
number of my systems run on UTC time and don't change. When I'm supreme
overlord, DST will go away, along with time zones, UTC for the entire
planet.

sandi 02-11-2008 06:41 PM

Clocks ahead
 
"Pete C." > wrote in

> In the IT world we're well aware of this stupidity.
> Fortunately a fair number of my systems run on UTC time and
> don't change. When I'm supreme overlord, DST will go away,
> along with time zones, UTC for the entire planet.


I agree with you. Down with DST!!!

Ed Pawlowski 02-11-2008 06:46 PM

Clocks ahead
 

"sandi" > wrote in message
...
> "Pete C." > wrote in
>
>> In the IT world we're well aware of this stupidity.
>> Fortunately a fair number of my systems run on UTC time and
>> don't change. When I'm supreme overlord, DST will go away,
>> along with time zones, UTC for the entire planet.

>
> I agree with you. Down with DST!!!


But then you won't have any daylight saved to use later.



Martin Mose Larsen 02-11-2008 06:58 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 16:05:41 GMT, hahabogus > wrote:

>"jmcquown" > wrote in news:6n5oamFjia3lU1
:
>
>> Dave Smith wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>>>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, but I did remember to set my clocks BACK one hour.
>>> Spring forward... Fall back.

>>
>>
>> Uh, yeah. Fall BACK. I still don't know why we're doing this.
>>
>> Jill
>>

>
>I got me one of those radio controlled clocks....The radio keeps the clock
>set properly to the correct time summer, winter, spring and fall...Lee
>vallry sells them. I stayed up the first time it was going to correct for
>cdt just to watch...I need a life. I also was enthrolled by my front load
>washer and watched it the first few times....


Why is there a window in a washer, but not in a dishwasher?

Because if you have them placed next to one another, Murphy's Law says
that at some point someone will put their dishes in the wrong machine,
and china (or China for that platter, er, matter) don't handle
spin-drying too well ... I'm told :-)

If this is old news for anyone, do you know if dishwashers eat socks
as well?

Bonusinfo: owens and microwave owens also have windows!

Some refrigerators come with Windows now, but that's another story!

sayonara
Martin Mose Larsen

Life is like a newsgroup thread: you never know what you're going to
get!

sandi 02-11-2008 07:07 PM

Clocks ahead
 
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in
:

>
> "sandi" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Pete C." > wrote in
>>
>>> In the IT world we're well aware of this stupidity.
>>> Fortunately a fair number of my systems run on UTC time and
>>> don't change. When I'm supreme overlord, DST will go away,
>>> along with time zones, UTC for the entire planet.

>>
>> I agree with you. Down with DST!!!

>
> But then you won't have any daylight saved to use later.


There's never enough time, day or night!


Dave Smith[_1_] 02-11-2008 07:08 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Pete C. wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
>> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>
> In the IT world we're well aware of this stupidity. Fortunately a fair
> number of my systems run on UTC time and don't change. When I'm supreme
> overlord, DST will go away, along with time zones, UTC for the entire
> planet.


I can appreciate that DST may have its uses in the summer when it allows
an extra hour of sunlight for outdoor activities. It is irrelevant in
the north where the sun stays up much later anyway. This recent
extension was supposed to be for the sake of energy conservation, and
IMO is a complete farce. The trade off for the extra hour of daylight at
the end of the day means waking up in the dark. Being retired I get up
when I feel like it, except for Sundays when I set the alarm for 7 am to
get to my riding lesson in time. The previous three Sunday mornings have
been dark. When I got up this morning it was nice and bright outside and
I didn't have to turn on lights to find my way around in the house.

sf[_7_] 02-11-2008 07:10 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:35:15 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
>"Spring to action and Fall ahead"
>


Never heard of that one. I use Fall Back, Spring Forward.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

sf[_7_] 02-11-2008 07:12 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun, 2 Nov 2008 07:51:40 -0500, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old
>> saying "Spring to action and Fall ahead"

>
>In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could fall
>forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government decicded we
>have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for Arizona where
>they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
>

Maybe it was ok 100 years ago.... even 50, but it's been outmoded for
at least the last 40 years. I say "get with the times" and stop
messing with the clock!



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

TFM®[_2_] 02-11-2008 07:37 PM

Clocks ahead
 


"Gregory Morrow" > wrote

> blAndy tells the time by the angle of the sun bouncing off the shadow of
> the
> propeller atop his beanie...



Sun bouncing off a shadow...

Think about that one for a minute or two. Then have another drink.


TFM®


jmcquown[_2_] 02-11-2008 07:45 PM

Clocks ahead
 
Goomba wrote:
> hahabogus wrote:
> I also was enthrolled by my front load
>> washer and watched it the first few times....
>>

> Hey.. I was too!! Did the same thing... lol.



Are we talking 'Rainman' here? As in, watch which way the sock falls in the
front load dryer? Look, the red sock always falls to the front first! <G>

Jill


Omelet[_7_] 02-11-2008 07:47 PM

Clocks ahead
 
In article >,
sf > wrote:

> >In my neck of the woods it's "spring foward, fall back" I wish I could fall
> >forward. I'm already not sleeping. Then some god or government decicded we
> >have to change the friggin clocks twice a year? Hurrah for Arizona where
> >they said screw you, we aren't doiing it!
> >

> Maybe it was ok 100 years ago.... even 50, but it's been outmoded for
> at least the last 40 years. I say "get with the times" and stop
> messing with the clock!


I agree, and would love to see it put to a vote.

Everybody I've ever talked to hates time changes. I'd like to see it
stay in DST.
--
Peace! Om

"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive." -- Dalai Lama

cshenk 02-11-2008 08:00 PM

Clocks ahead
 
"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message

> Did you remember to turn your clocks ahead? Just go by that old saying
> "Spring to action and Fall ahead"


Grin, Spring forward, Fall back.



sf[_7_] 02-11-2008 08:49 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:47:31 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>Everybody I've ever talked to hates time changes. I'd like to see it
>stay in DST.


DST is fine by me.... I just want to pick a time and stay with it.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

elaich 02-11-2008 09:01 PM

Clocks ahead
 
sf > wrote in :

> Maybe it was ok 100 years ago.... even 50, but it's been outmoded for
> at least the last 40 years. I say "get with the times" and stop
> messing with the clock!


Do you really want the sun coming up at 4 AM in the summer? Do you really
want it still pitch dark at 8 AM in the winter?

Chuck Kopsho 02-11-2008 09:12 PM

Clocks ahead
 
I dunno about you Arizonans and the time change. I wouldn't bitch and
moan about an extra hour's daylight. It's such a trifle to get your
knickers in a twist over it

Cheers,
Chuck Kopsho
Oceanside, California


sf[_7_] 02-11-2008 09:24 PM

Clocks ahead
 
On 2 Nov 2008 21:01:25 GMT, elaich > wrote:

>sf > wrote in :
>
>> Maybe it was ok 100 years ago.... even 50, but it's been outmoded for
>> at least the last 40 years. I say "get with the times" and stop
>> messing with the clock!

>
>Do you really want the sun coming up at 4 AM in the summer? Do you really
>want it still pitch dark at 8 AM in the winter?


BTDT, it's not a problem. Is the sun coming up at 4AM so much worse
than at 5AM? Not for me, and that's why they invented curtains. I
simply don't like switching back and forth, nor do most people. One
hour of daylight in either direction is not a factor for anyone in
this day and age of electric lights.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that
interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

cshenk 02-11-2008 09:36 PM

Clocks ahead
 
"sf" wrote

>>Do you really want the sun coming up at 4 AM in the summer? Do you really
>>want it still pitch dark at 8 AM in the winter?

>
> BTDT, it's not a problem. Is the sun coming up at 4AM so much worse
> than at 5AM? Not for me, and that's why they invented curtains. I
> simply don't like switching back and forth, nor do most people. One
> hour of daylight in either direction is not a factor for anyone in
> this day and age of electric lights.


It helps to adjust a bit for kids and the bus schedules so it's light more
often than not when they go and come home. No other real reason for it.



Dave Smith[_1_] 02-11-2008 09:53 PM

Clocks ahead
 
sf wrote:

> BTDT, it's not a problem. Is the sun coming up at 4AM so much worse
> than at 5AM? Not for me, and that's why they invented curtains. I
> simply don't like switching back and forth, nor do most people. One
> hour of daylight in either direction is not a factor for anyone in
> this day and age of electric lights.



That is the thing that makes no sense to me. The extension of DST this
year was supposed to be in order to save energy. By extending DST to the
first Sunday in November it was getting darker and darker in the
morning. If they figure that we are going to save energy by not having
the lights on as early in the evening maybe someone should point out
that we had to have them on in the morning instead.


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