I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!

Diana

do a google on velveting and chinese cooking-it is one way to tenderize
the meat is marinated in a cornstarch mixture then deep fried in oil (or
poached in water depending on the dish) only until it loses color (not
crispy!) then taken out and recooking within the dish
(this is a general description)

a dish that does this most of the time is kung pao chicken-someone just
recently posted a recipe for it

you can also do a search on it with good results (most likely) at
www.chinesefood.about.com

kag
chet > wrote in message ...
> I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
> thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
> say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
> the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>
> Diana
>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:44:39 GMT, chet > wrote:

>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!

I always marinate in baking soda, sherry, cornstarch and a touch of
soy sauce. The baking soda is what does it for me. Also using the
right cur of meat helps, too. I use flap/hanger steak. A little
chewey, but certainly not tough.

-sw

chet writes:
>
>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!

The Chinese like to pull their meat, so what meat you talking... pork...
Chinese definitely pound their pork. Fish they whack off.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

PENMART01 wrote:

> chet writes:
>
>>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>>
>
> The Chinese like to pull their meat, so what meat you talking... pork...
> Chinese definitely pound their pork. Fish they whack off.
>
>
> ---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
> Sheldon
> ````````````
> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
>
>
Yeah, but Sheldon: If you beat your fish it dies.

On 29 Oct 2003 01:53:52 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

>chet writes:
>>
>>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>
The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
supermarkets sell it.

Dr.<S> Needles </S> Pinhead writes:

>penmart01 wrote:
>
>>chet writes:
>>>
>>>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>>>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>>>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>>>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>>
>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>supermarkets sell it.

Get your attributions correct, Pinhead... I didn't write anything you've
quoted.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

On 30 Oct 2003 14:17:36 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:

>Dr.<S> Needles </S> Pinhead writes:
>
>>penmart01 wrote:
>>
>>>chet writes:
>>>>
>>>>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>>>>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>>>>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>>>>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>>>
>>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>>supermarkets sell it.
>
>Get your attributions correct, Pinhead... I didn't write anything you've
>quoted.

Speaking of pinheads, you need to learn how to read. It was written
by "chet".

Dr. Pinhead writes:

>penmart01 wrote:
>>Dr.Pinhead writes:
>>>penmart01 wrote:
>>>>chet writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>>>>>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>>>>>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>>>>>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>>>>
>>>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>>>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>>>supermarkets sell it.
>>
>>Get your attributions correct, Pinhead... I didn't write anything you've
>>quoted.
>
>Speaking of pinheads, you need to learn how to read. It was written
>by "chet".

Nope, PINHEAD, you are the smarmy imbecile who made the misattribution.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:11:21 -0500, Dr.Needles >
wrote:

>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>supermarkets sell it.

I've seen the bottles and they cost a furtune for what you get. Just
use Arm&Hammer for 1/10,000th the price.

-sw

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:38:31 -0600, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:11:21 -0500, Dr.Needles >
>wrote:
>
>>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>>supermarkets sell it.
>
>I've seen the bottles and they cost a furtune for what you get. Just
>use Arm&Hammer for 1/10,000th the price.
>
It gets diluted 50:1, so it lasts quite a long time.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:30:21 -0500, Dr.Needles >
wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:38:31 -0600, Steve Wertz
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:11:21 -0500, Dr.Needles >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>>>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>>>supermarkets sell it.
>>
>>I've seen the bottles and they cost a furtune for what you get. Just
>>use Arm&Hammer for 1/10,000th the price.
>>
>It gets diluted 50:1, so it lasts quite a long time.

Ouch. It doesn't say that on the lables. If you're gonna put sodium
hydroxide in something, it helps if you use the right concentration.

I had always wondered how to use those bottles, so thanks. I've
really only seen the in one store, and I've spent q *lot* of time in
oriental markets.

-sw

Amazing !
I'd heard of stir-fry meats marinated in "lye",
but I always thought it was an urban legend.
( like "wokking" the dog )

re the process;
I wonder how commercial meat tenderizer would work ??


Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:11:21 -0500, Dr.Needles >
wrote:

>On 29 Oct 2003 01:53:52 GMT, (PENMART01) wrote:
>
>>chet writes:
>>
>The Chinese use a product called "jian shui" . It's an alkaline/lye
>water that breaks down the protein in the meat. Most Chinese
>supermarkets sell it.

<rj>

"" wrote:
>
> Amazing !
> I'd heard of stir-fry meats marinated in "lye",
> but I always thought it was an urban legend.
> ( like "wokking" the dog )
>
> re the process;
> I wonder how commercial meat tenderizer would work ??
>

Depends. Sometimes the meat is injected with enzymes, other times it is
run through a machine with lots of pins that break the fibres.
Lately cheap meat is 'tenderized' by adding a lot of water and
phosphates to it.

>"" wrote:
>> I wonder how commercial meat tenderizer would work ??
>
>Lately cheap meat is 'tenderized' by adding a lot of water and
>phosphates to it.

Wrong. Adding water and/or phosphates if anything touhgens meat.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

chet wrote:

> I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
> thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
> say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
> the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!

try flank steak cut against the grain... also the speed at which you
cook the meat makes a difference... keep it short...

~john!

levelwave > wrote in
:

> chet wrote:
>
>> I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to
>> tenderize thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix,
>> directions say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we
>> cannot get the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how
>> do they do it!
>
> try flank steak cut against the grain... also the speed at which you
> cook the meat makes a difference... keep it short...
>
> ~john!
>
>

I grew up eating Chinese food in the midwest and east, and recall that
beef, pork, and chicken were usually cut in small cube-like shapes for
dishes like chow mein, chop suey, kung pao, etc., with few if any dishes
having sliced meat.

I now live in the west (AZ) and find that virtually every dish I order
has extremely thinly sliced meat regardless of the dish or type of meat.
I can't stand it, but can't seem to find an alternative.

Is this change regional or a national trend in Chinese cooking? If I
can't find meat cut in cubes, I may as well just order vegetarian
Chinese dishes from now on.

Beyond the meat issue, I find a huge difference in egg foo yung.
Whatever variety of it I ordered in the midwest and the east always
contained the primary ingredients in the egg foo yung patties
themselves; e.g., shrimp egg foo yung contained shrimp, and the same
with pork or vegetables. Locally, a dish of egg foo yung contains some
basic patties (never contains the primary ingredient), then piled high
on top with the variety item you ordered; e.g., shrimp, pork,
vegetables. Ugh! Not my idea of egg foo yung.

What's up with both of these issues? Anybody?

Wayne

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:20:46 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>Is this change regional or a national trend in Chinese cooking? If I
>can't find meat cut in cubes, I may as well just order vegetarian
>Chinese dishes from now on.

This is a classic example of a food phobia. Lunchmeat must give you
the willies, eh?

-sw

Steve Wertz > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 05:20:46 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
>>Is this change regional or a national trend in Chinese cooking? If I
>>can't find meat cut in cubes, I may as well just order vegetarian
>>Chinese dishes from now on.
>
> This is a classic example of a food phobia. Lunchmeat must give you
> the willies, eh?
>
> -sw
>
>

Not at all. I don't happen to like the texture as I find it (for lack of a
better description) rather mushy and not very toothsome. I also do not
like thinly sliced or shaved lunchmeat for the same reason, although I do
like lunchmeat.

Wayne

Wayne Boatwright > wrote in
:

> I grew up eating Chinese food in the midwest and east, and recall that
> beef, pork, and chicken were usually cut in small cube-like shapes for
> dishes like chow mein, chop suey, kung pao, etc., with few if any
> dishes having sliced meat.
>
> I now live in the west (AZ) and find that virtually every dish I order
> has extremely thinly sliced meat regardless of the dish or type of
> meat.
> I can't stand it, but can't seem to find an alternative.
>
> Is this change regional or a national trend in Chinese cooking? If I
> can't find meat cut in cubes, I may as well just order vegetarian
> Chinese dishes from now on.
>
> Beyond the meat issue, I find a huge difference in egg foo yung.
> Whatever variety of it I ordered in the midwest and the east always
> contained the primary ingredients in the egg foo yung patties
> themselves; e.g., shrimp egg foo yung contained shrimp, and the same
> with pork or vegetables. Locally, a dish of egg foo yung contains
> some basic patties (never contains the primary ingredient), then piled
> high on top with the variety item you ordered; e.g., shrimp, pork,
> vegetables. Ugh! Not my idea of egg foo yung.
>
> What's up with both of these issues? Anybody?
>
> Wayne

Apparently I did not make my question clear... I'm not the least bit
interested in what you think of my opinion of the meat. I'm only
interested in knowing whether anyone has observed this change from meat
cut in cubes to meat that is thinly-sliced, either regionally or over a
period of time.

If you think my dislike of the sliced meat is strange or weird, then so
be it.

Wayne

Wayne Boatbaby raved:
>
>Apparently I did not make my question clear... I'm not the least bit
>interested in what you think of my opinion of the meat.

Welcome to Usenet, newbie boatbaby.

>I'm only
>interested in knowing whether anyone has observed this change from meat
>cut in cubes to meat that is thinly-sliced, either regionally or over a
>period of time.

How meat is cut in Chinese cookery (all Chinese cookery in fact) is primarilly
regional... China region, not USA region.

You're a whiney little spoil't brat, aintcha... really ignorant too... grow up.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

Why don't you two duke it out on the playground.
Pat

>I grew up eating Chinese food in the midwest and east, and recall that
>beef, pork, and chicken were usually cut in small cube-like shapes for
>dishes like chow mein, chop suey, kung pao, etc., with few if any dishes
>having sliced meat.
>
>I now live in the west (AZ) and find that virtually every dish I order
>has extremely thinly sliced meat regardless of the dish or type of meat.
> I can't stand it, but can't seem to find an alternative.
>
>Is this change regional or a national trend in Chinese cooking? If I
>can't find meat cut in cubes, I may as well just order vegetarian
>Chinese dishes from now on.
>
China was basically a very poor country. Anyone over 40/50 years old
grew up with meat being used as a flavor, not a main ingredient. In
fact, if you can read the Chinese, you'll find that the name of a dish
such as Beef and Brocolli is really Brocolli with Beef in Chinese.
Families used to be limited to 1/2 pound of meat per week. To make it
last, it was always sliced very thin.

Dr.Needles > wrote in
:

>
>>I grew up eating Chinese food in the midwest and east, and recall that
>>beef, pork, and chicken were usually cut in small cube-like shapes for
>>dishes like chow mein, chop suey, kung pao, etc., with few if any
>>dishes having sliced meat.
>>
>>I now live in the west (AZ) and find that virtually every dish I order
>>has extremely thinly sliced meat regardless of the dish or type of
>>meat.
>> I can't stand it, but can't seem to find an alternative.
>>
>>Is this change regional or a national trend in Chinese cooking? If I
>>can't find meat cut in cubes, I may as well just order vegetarian
>>Chinese dishes from now on.
>>
> China was basically a very poor country. Anyone over 40/50 years old
> grew up with meat being used as a flavor, not a main ingredient. In
> fact, if you can read the Chinese, you'll find that the name of a dish
> such as Beef and Brocolli is really Brocolli with Beef in Chinese.
> Families used to be limited to 1/2 pound of meat per week. To make it
> last, it was always sliced very thin.

That may be, and I understand that. However, in the US this was not
usually a need. In the midwest and toward the east, I have almost
always been served dishes where the meat was cut in small bits or cubes,
but definitely not thinly sliced. Apparently, this must be a regional
US thing.

I have a half dozen or so Chinese cookbooks, several of which were
purchased in Chinatown in NYC and SF. I can't recall more than a couple
of recipes that call for thinly slicing the meat.

I must be living in my own little world where nobody else eats, since
everyone seems to think my observations and ideas about it ludicrous.

Wayne

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
. ..
> Dr.Needles > wrote in
> :
[...]
> > China was basically a very poor country. Anyone over 40/50 years old
> > grew up with meat being used as a flavor, not a main ingredient. In
> > fact, if you can read the Chinese, you'll find that the name of a dish
> > such as Beef and Brocolli is really Brocolli with Beef in Chinese.
> > Families used to be limited to 1/2 pound of meat per week. To make it
> > last, it was always sliced very thin.


There's Chinese dishes that are meant to have meat in cubes, in slices,
shredded, in chunks, etc. And court cooking often involves thin slices. So
I don't think it has to do with frugality.

I think being a poor country has to do with lesser meat consumption, but
also, China was always vegetable eating culture, unlike their nomadic,
animal-herding neighbors. But the Tibetans and Mongolians etc. were surely
also equally poor, if not more so, since they always attacked China.


> That may be, and I understand that. However, in the US this was not
> usually a need. In the midwest and toward the east, I have almost
> always been served dishes where the meat was cut in small bits or cubes,
> but definitely not thinly sliced. Apparently, this must be a regional
> US thing.
>
> I have a half dozen or so Chinese cookbooks, several of which were
> purchased in Chinatown in NYC and SF. I can't recall more than a couple
> of recipes that call for thinly slicing the meat.
>
> I must be living in my own little world where nobody else eats, since
> everyone seems to think my observations and ideas about it ludicrous.


Yeah. Also, the dishes you mention are old-style Americanized dishes, which
most of us are hardly interested in any more, if we ever were.

Peter

"chet" wrote in message
> I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
> thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
> say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
> the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>
> Diana

Unless their methods have changed, US/Chinese restaurants used MSG
(monosodium glutamate) to tenderize meat. MSG has fallen out of favor
these days; I have no idea if they are still using it.

Dora

"limey" writes:
>
>US/Chinese restaurants used MSG
>(monosodium glutamate) to tenderize meat.

MSG is a flavor enhancer, not a tenderizer.


---= BOYCOTT FRENCH--GERMAN (belgium) =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
Sheldon
````````````
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."

"PENMART01" > wrote in message > "limey" writes:
> >
> >US/Chinese restaurants used MSG
> >(monosodium glutamate) to tenderize meat.
>
> MSG is a flavor enhancer, not a tenderizer.
>
> Sheldon
> ````````````
Yep - realized it myself and posted a mea culpa. I'm ready for the funny
farm.

Dora

"limey" > wrote in message > Unless their methods have
changed, US/Chinese restaurants used MSG
> (monosodium glutamate) to tenderize meat. MSG has fallen out of favor
> these days; I have no idea if they are still using it.
>
> Dora
Oops. Scratch the above post. MSG was used as a flavor enhancer, not
tenderizer. I'm wrong.
I was confusing it with Adolph's Meat Tenderizer. Haven't used either one
in years.

limey wrote:

> "chet" wrote in message
>
>>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
>>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
>>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
>>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>>
>> Diana
>
>
> Unless their methods have changed, US/Chinese restaurants used MSG
> (monosodium glutamate) to tenderize meat. MSG has fallen out of favor
> these days; I have no idea if they are still using it.

MSG isn't a tenderizer, it's a flavor enhancer that provides that
elusive "umami" flavor. The flavor of "meatiness."

Pastorio

"Bob Pastorio" > wrote in message
...
> limey wrote:
>
> > "chet" wrote in message
> >
> >>I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
> >>thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
> >>say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
> >>the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
> >>
> >> Diana
> >
> >
> > Unless their methods have changed, US/Chinese restaurants used MSG
> > (monosodium glutamate) to tenderize meat. MSG has fallen out of favor
> > these days; I have no idea if they are still using it.
>
> MSG isn't a tenderizer, it's a flavor enhancer that provides that
> elusive "umami" flavor. The flavor of "meatiness."
>
> Pastorio

Thank you. I had already posted a retraction.
Dora
>

chet wrote:

> I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
> thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
> say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
> the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>
> Diana
>


First avoid buying packaged foods.

Second, I like to have my meat partially frozen when I cut it against
the grain. This makes it easier to cut it thinner. I leave it thaw
completely and dry it if needed.

Finally, cook it hot and fast. Don't let it stew.

chet wrote:
>
> I was wondering what the commercial Chinese resturants do to tenderize
> thier meat, I picked up a package of Beef and Brocolli mix, directions
> say to cut up the meat in small slices, for some reason we cannot get
> the meat nowhere near as tender as the resturants do, how do they do it!
>
> Diana

Two things are common: the meat is sliced *very* thinly and sometimes it
is 'marinated' with a bit of baking soda. Two Chinese cooks from
different parts of China told me to use baking soda. It does work but
can alter the content of certain nutrients.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:00:46 -0700, Arri London >
wrote:

>Two things are common: the meat is sliced *very* thinly and sometimes it
>is 'marinated' with a bit of baking soda. Two Chinese cooks from
>different parts of China told me to use baking soda.

Yes - baking soda. Just 1ts per pound of meat.

-sw

Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:00:46 -0700, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >Two things are common: the meat is sliced *very* thinly and sometimes it
> >is 'marinated' with a bit of baking soda. Two Chinese cooks from
> >different parts of China told me to use baking soda.
>
> Yes - baking soda. Just 1ts per pound of meat.
>
> -sw

Yes... keep it minimal. Too much makes the meat taste very strange
indeed.