In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.

That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...

The Answer?

No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! If you get welfare,
you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
at home...

NO free ride!
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Sep 14, 1:57*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
> *Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> > welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> > who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> > meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> > so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> > home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> > a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>
> That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>
> The Answer?
>
> No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! *If you get welfare,
> you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> at home...
>
> NO free ride!

And if you think you've got a crime problem now, just wait. Starve
or shoot the lady in the mink coat?

John Kane Kingson ON Canada

In article
>,
John Kane > wrote:

> On Sep 14, 1:57*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *Dave Smith > wrote:
> >
> > > What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> > > welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> > > who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> > > meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> > > so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> > > home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> > > a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
> >
> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
> >
> > The Answer?
> >
> > No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! *If you get welfare,
> > you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> > at home...
> >
> > NO free ride!
>
> And if you think you've got a crime problem now, just wait. Starve
> or shoot the lady in the mink coat?
>
> John Kane Kingson ON Canada

You may note that I offered a Government work program as an
alternative... or were you not paying attention?

Peace corps or Civilian Corps of Engineers.

Work for the money for the public.

No free ride.

Fcuk the "mink coat".

Geeze.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article >,
says...
> In article
> >,
> John Kane > wrote:
>
> > On Sep 14, 1:57*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > *Dave Smith > wrote:
> > >
> > > > What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> > > > welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> > > > who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> > > > meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> > > > so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> > > > home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> > > > a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
> > >
> > > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
> > >
> > > The Answer?
> > >
> > > No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! *If you get welfare,
> > > you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> > > at home...
> > >
> > > NO free ride!
> >
> > And if you think you've got a crime problem now, just wait. Starve
> > or shoot the lady in the mink coat?
> >
> > John Kane Kingson ON Canada
>
> You may note that I offered a Government work program as an
> alternative... or were you not paying attention?
>
> Peace corps or Civilian Corps of Engineers.
>
> Work for the money for the public.
>
> No free ride.
>
> Fcuk the "mink coat".
>
> Geeze.
>

I tend to agree, I'd like to see a WPA created again to replace our
crumbling infrastructure and maybe advance it a bit.

Another thing I'd like to see is that upon graduation from high school
or attainment of the age of 18 you serve a year of national service.
Make it conditional on your right to vote.

While we're on a roll, lets make election days national holidays.

And maybe cut the campaign season down to a month or two.

In article > ,
T > wrote:

> I tend to agree, I'd like to see a WPA created again to replace our
> crumbling infrastructure and maybe advance it a bit.

Along those lines. The WPRA "Welfare People Recreating America".

> Another thing I'd like to see is that upon graduation from high school
> or attainment of the age of 18 you serve a year of national service.
> Make it conditional on your right to vote.

Nah. Many people don't care if they vote. Make service mandatory. One
year of national service before entering the workforce, college or the
welfare roles would help this nation immensely. It would help the
individual in self worth as well. Service starts from the moment one
drops out or graduates from high school and continues until they are
nineteen.

> While we're on a roll, lets make election days national holidays.

The NFL would schedule a game and everybody would get drunk or high.
Turnout would suffer.

> And maybe cut the campaign season down to a month or two.

Yeah, right.

leo

In article > ,
T > wrote:

> Another thing I'd like to see is that upon graduation from high school
> or attainment of the age of 18 you serve a year of national service.
> Make it conditional on your right to vote.

Like in Israel. If nothing else, it'd instill some discipline in kids
that never got any.

>
> While we're on a roll, lets make election days national holidays.
>
> And maybe cut the campaign season down to a month or two.

<lol> And save MILLIONS of wasted dollars in campaign funds!
The amount of money wasted in campaigns sickens me!
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Sep 14, 3:50*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> *John Kane > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 14, 1:57*pm, Omelet > wrote:
> > > In article >,
> > > *Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > > > What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> > > > welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> > > > who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> > > > meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> > > > so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> > > > home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> > > > a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>
> > > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>
> > > The Answer?
>
> > > No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! *If you get welfare,
> > > you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> > > at home...
>
> > > NO free ride!
>
> > And if you think you've got a crime problem now, just wait. * Starve
> > or shoot the lady in the mink coat?
>
> > John Kane Kingson ON Canada
>
> You may note that I offered a Government work program as an
> alternative... or were you not paying attention?

Yes. And so far I''ve read of examples in the USA, Canada and the UK
which usually don't work well enough to do anything other than make a
few consultants a bit better off.


>
> Peace corps or *Civilian Corps of Engineers.

The last time I looked the Peace Corps or something like a CCE
required degrees or at the very least a reasonable level of literacy,
numeracy and passible physical and mental health.

Unfortunately a lot of welfare recipients don't have one or more of
these

>
> Work for the money for the public.

I have no problem with that if a program can be designed that will
actually work. Just explain how you are going to get a single mother
to work when there is no childcare, the mentally disturbed (to
outright barmy) to function etc at less cost than welfare.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
>> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
>> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
>> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
>> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
>> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
>> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>
> That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>
> The Answer?
>
> No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! If you get welfare,
> you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> at home...

And if they don't perform?? Fire them and let them starve? I don't
think so.

In the good old days they had debtors prisons, and babies were taken
from poor single mothers and put up for adoption. I hope there is ahappy
medium.


>
> NO free ride!

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Dave Smith > wrote:
> >
> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> >> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> >> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> >> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> >> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> >> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> >> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
> >
> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
> >
> > The Answer?
> >
> > No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! If you get welfare,
> > you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> > at home...
>
> And if they don't perform?? Fire them and let them starve? I don't
> think so.

It's called "training" babe.

>
> In the good old days they had debtors prisons, and babies were taken
> from poor single mothers and put up for adoption. I hope there is ahappy
> medium.

My own father is a product of that. Don't think I have no personal
experience. Dad is an adopted state confiscated orphan. It's made my
family tree searches somewhat complicated.

He has no regrets.

Don't have babies you cannot support. I know that sounds ruthless, but
people need to grow the hell up.

>
>
> >
> > NO free ride!

I still stand by that.

I worked my ass off to get where I am. Pardon me if I don't want my tax
dollars to support lazy freeloaders!
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

Omelet > fnord
news
> In article >,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> Omelet wrote:
>> > In article >,
>> > Dave Smith > wrote:
>> >
>> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised
>> >> on welfare, whose college education subsidized and received
>> >> student grants, who had the opportunity to get education and
>> >> training to help her find meaningful employment. But she knew that
>> >> the system would support her, so she intentionally got herself
>> >> pregnant knowing that she could stay home and not have to work.
>> >> That was the way she was raised, and there is a good chance that
>> >> her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>> >
>> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>> >
>> > The Answer?
>> >
>> > No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! If you get
>> > welfare, you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing
>> > military uniforms at home...
>>
>> And if they don't perform?? Fire them and let them starve? I don't
>> think so.
>
> It's called "training" babe.
>
>>
>> In the good old days they had debtors prisons, and babies were taken
>> from poor single mothers and put up for adoption. I hope there is
>> ahappy medium.
>
> My own father is a product of that. Don't think I have no personal
> experience. Dad is an adopted state confiscated orphan. It's made my
> family tree searches somewhat complicated.
>
> He has no regrets.
>
> Don't have babies you cannot support. I know that sounds ruthless, but
> people need to grow the hell up.
>

Sometimes not being able to support a child happens after that child is
born. A minimum wage job is barely enough to support one adult, let
alone an adult and a child. What do you propose for people who are laid
off from their jobs?

Unemployment is at 6% right now. Are you proposing that 6% of the
population should starve?


>>
>>
>> >
>> > NO free ride!
>
> I still stand by that.
>
> I worked my ass off to get where I am. Pardon me if I don't want my
> tax dollars to support lazy freeloaders!

Not everyone on welfare is a "lazy freeloader". You own a home. Are you
telling me you don't take the tax breaks you are afforded because you
have a mortgage?

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

wrote:
>Sometimes not being able to support a child happens after that child is
>born.

Poor people can't really afford spontaneous procreation without giving
at least a thought to consistent support, education and health care
options. The days when one salary could feed five or ten mouths are long
gone.

>A minimum wage job is barely enough to support one adult, let
>alone an adult and a child.

People really need to realize this, especially when they insist on
buying everything dirt cheap. Those rock bottom prices come at a very
high cost to the American poor.

>What do you propose for people who are laid
>off from their jobs?

I suspect there's no real proposal in the offing, just a rant about how
irresponsible the poor are.

>Unemployment is at 6% right now. Are you proposing that 6% of the
>population should starve?

Most ranters of this ilk mysteriously evaporate when asked questions
like these.

>Not everyone on welfare is a "lazy freeloader". You own a home. Are you
>telling me you don't take the tax breaks you are afforded because you
>have a mortgage?

To the conservative mind, tax breaks assisting people who already work
are reinforcing the positive in our society: self sufficiency, hard
work, good fiscal planning and responsible procreation.

Orlando

Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote in
:

>>Not everyone on welfare is a "lazy freeloader". You own a home. Are you
>>telling me you don't take the tax breaks you are afforded because you
>>have a mortgage?
>
> To the conservative mind, tax breaks assisting people who already work
> are reinforcing the positive in our society: self sufficiency, hard
> work, good fiscal planning and responsible procreation.

Ya...no fun at all.

wrote:
>Yet, there are a lot of women of that generation who are still on
>welfare, as are their children. Meanwhile, the rest of us went to
>school, got jobs, found places to live and then had children. What
>suckers we were. We could have stayed home and let others support us.
>Instead, we paid higher taxes to look after them and their kids as well
>as ourselves.

You make it sound like life below the poverty line is a sumptuous
picnic. Have you ever asked these scores of welfare recipients you know
to provide you detailed budgets so that you see what their lives are
really like? Have you ever been to a food bank or gone to an electric or
phone company in tears because service got cut off? Have you ever had to
boil water to take a hot shower because the landlord turned off the hot
water heater? Have you ever seen your children covered in rat bites? I
suspect not, which means you know nothing about what life on welfare
actually is. As for your precious tax dollars, I don't see you
complaining when your taxes are used to fund wars, pay crooked
representatives or selectively patronize certain art forms over others.
Yet, when 1% of your taxes go toward the poor, you rant and rave on here
as though you were being ripped off.

Orlando

Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:

>
>
> I suspect there's no real proposal in the offing, just a rant about how
> irresponsible the poor are.



I can't speak for the others, but my rant was in response to your
blantant lie that most welfare recipients are white males. Nothing could
be further from the truth. The fact is that white males, despite their
major presence in our society, are one of the smallest groups
demographic groups in the welfare system.

In article >,
Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:

> >Not everyone on welfare is a "lazy freeloader". You own a home. Are you
> >telling me you don't take the tax breaks you are afforded because you
> >have a mortgage?
>
> To the conservative mind, tax breaks assisting people who already work
> are reinforcing the positive in our society: self sufficiency, hard
> work, good fiscal planning and responsible procreation.
>
> Orlando

I don't get a tax break for my morgage.
The "standard deduction" is higher. I don't itemize.

It's not worth it.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

On Sep 14, 7:26*pm, Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:

> To the conservative mind, tax breaks assisting people who already work
> are reinforcing the positive in our society: self sufficiency, hard
> work, good fiscal planning and responsible procreation.
>
> Orlando

And very often, albeit certainly not always, the forsight to have well-
off parents.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

I wasn't sure I wanted to weigh in on this conversation, but I think I
will. I have been the director of a food pantry for 18 years. Because
we are given government surplus food, we must follow the government
guidelines for eligibility.

These are the income eligibility limits ( in NH) :

family of one = $19,240
two = $25,900
five = $45,880
eight = $65,860

If someone comes in with a gross household income under these amounts
they are automatically qualified.

There are many other aids to the needy besides welfare. I have had very
few clients who were actually on state funded welfare. I've had a few
on town funded welfare. In my town if you are able to work, and you
have received help from the town, they put you to work at the library,
or town dump/recycling center, etc to pay back the money.

The majority of my clients now are 70+ year old widows. It's
heartbreaking sometimes when a new client comes in crying because she is
so ashamed to have to ask for help. Their husbands served their country
in WW2, they paid their taxes, raised families, worked their butts off
their whole lives, and now that they are retired, many are widows living
in government subsidized housing, getting their food from a food pantry.
They can barely afford their medicines/healthcare.

I also see a lot of illiteracy as a reason for public assistance. I
have a client who is receiving disability, is almost illiterate, and at
45 years old is now raising her 2 teenaged nephews, one of whom now has
a newborn, on $8,000 a year.

We have a few "traditional" families (mom & dad + kids) who have no real
education beyond high school and no particular job skills who go from
job to job to job. When you are the low man on the totem pole, you're
usually the first one layed off in a downsizing, so you get another job,
where, again, you are low man on the totem pole, get layed off again,
and it just goes on forever. They never seem able to get ahead.

We have had our share of drug/alcohol problem families too, but they
don't seem able to hang around very long to receive aid, because NH is a
very expensive place to live.

I agree that some families just seem to pass down the tendency to depend
on public assistance. Some truly are deserving, some aren't. There's
always an element who seem to think they are entitled, but they are the
exception, thank God. At least in my experience.

I sometimes wish we could pass out birth control, but that's not my
role.

Some of my clients have been with me for the entire 18 years, coming in
every other week for food. There's a segment of society who will never
have a better way of life. Social Security and disability checks don't
keep up with inflation, the price of gas is depleting any little extra
they might have had left over. Many of my seniors live in the same
subsidized complex and are now carpooling to the food pantry, and those
who are able, are so eager to help me whenever I need help sorting a
canned goods drive. A few even have worked with me on a weekly basis.
I could never get one of the young clients to help out. It just shows
how the older generation still feels that you MUST work for your
rewards.

I guess my reason for writing is to let you know that some of us are
really trying to sort out and help the truly needy. I realize that this
is not the same as huge cities dealing with massive welfare problems,
but on a smaller scale, it's some of the same types of people. Some
you'd like to kick in the butt, most you'd give the shirt off your back
to.

Please support your local food pantries, sometimes a little extra help
in a time of crises is all that's needed to help someone through the
toughest time in their lives.

Don't get me started on the woman who rolled in in a Lincoln Towncar,
waved a W-2 form with an income of over $80,000, for a 2 person family,
and almost punched me out, when I informed her that $80,000 was way over
the income limit. She insisted that no one could possibly be expected
to survive on $80,000 a year, because, after all, that was before taxes.
She stormed out fuming when I told her that most of our clients made
less than $20,000 a year, before taxes, and had 3 or 4 kids.

It takes all kinds.

Denise

(Denise in NH) fnord news:15622-48CEABBC-2030
@storefull-3133.bay.webtv.net:

> I wasn't sure I wanted to weigh in on this conversation, but I think
I
> will. I have been the director of a food pantry for 18 years.
Because
> we are given government surplus food, we must follow the government
> guidelines for eligibility.
>
> These are the income eligibility limits ( in NH) :
>
> family of one = $19,240
> two = $25,900
> five = $45,880
> eight = $65,860
>
> If someone comes in with a gross household income under these amounts
> they are automatically qualified.

The cost of living in New Hampshire must be very high. I make just under
the guideline for a family of two, and while things are tight, I have no
need for food assitance.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

In article >,
(Denise in NH) wrote:

> I wasn't sure I wanted to weigh in on this conversation, but I think I
> will. I have been the director of a food pantry for 18 years. Because
> we are given government surplus food, we must follow the government
> guidelines for eligibility.
>
> These are the income eligibility limits ( in NH) :
>
> family of one = $19,240
> two = $25,900
> five = $45,880
> eight = $65,860
>
> If someone comes in with a gross household income under these amounts
> they are automatically qualified.
>
> There are many other aids to the needy besides welfare. I have had very
> few clients who were actually on state funded welfare. I've had a few
> on town funded welfare. In my town if you are able to work, and you
> have received help from the town, they put you to work at the library,
> or town dump/recycling center, etc to pay back the money.
>
> The majority of my clients now are 70+ year old widows. It's
> heartbreaking sometimes when a new client comes in crying because she is
> so ashamed to have to ask for help. Their husbands served their country
> in WW2, they paid their taxes, raised families, worked their butts off
> their whole lives, and now that they are retired, many are widows living
> in government subsidized housing, getting their food from a food pantry.
> They can barely afford their medicines/healthcare.
>
> I also see a lot of illiteracy as a reason for public assistance. I
> have a client who is receiving disability, is almost illiterate, and at
> 45 years old is now raising her 2 teenaged nephews, one of whom now has
> a newborn, on $8,000 a year.
>
> We have a few "traditional" families (mom & dad + kids) who have no real
> education beyond high school and no particular job skills who go from
> job to job to job. When you are the low man on the totem pole, you're
> usually the first one layed off in a downsizing, so you get another job,
> where, again, you are low man on the totem pole, get layed off again,
> and it just goes on forever. They never seem able to get ahead.
>
> We have had our share of drug/alcohol problem families too, but they
> don't seem able to hang around very long to receive aid, because NH is a
> very expensive place to live.
>
> I agree that some families just seem to pass down the tendency to depend
> on public assistance. Some truly are deserving, some aren't. There's
> always an element who seem to think they are entitled, but they are the
> exception, thank God. At least in my experience.
>
> I sometimes wish we could pass out birth control, but that's not my
> role.
>
> Some of my clients have been with me for the entire 18 years, coming in
> every other week for food. There's a segment of society who will never
> have a better way of life. Social Security and disability checks don't
> keep up with inflation, the price of gas is depleting any little extra
> they might have had left over. Many of my seniors live in the same
> subsidized complex and are now carpooling to the food pantry, and those
> who are able, are so eager to help me whenever I need help sorting a
> canned goods drive. A few even have worked with me on a weekly basis.
> I could never get one of the young clients to help out. It just shows
> how the older generation still feels that you MUST work for your
> rewards.
>
> I guess my reason for writing is to let you know that some of us are
> really trying to sort out and help the truly needy. I realize that this
> is not the same as huge cities dealing with massive welfare problems,
> but on a smaller scale, it's some of the same types of people. Some
> you'd like to kick in the butt, most you'd give the shirt off your back
> to.
>
> Please support your local food pantries, sometimes a little extra help
> in a time of crises is all that's needed to help someone through the
> toughest time in their lives.
>
> Don't get me started on the woman who rolled in in a Lincoln Towncar,
> waved a W-2 form with an income of over $80,000, for a 2 person family,
> and almost punched me out, when I informed her that $80,000 was way over
> the income limit. She insisted that no one could possibly be expected
> to survive on $80,000 a year, because, after all, that was before taxes.
> She stormed out fuming when I told her that most of our clients made
> less than $20,000 a year, before taxes, and had 3 or 4 kids.
>
> It takes all kinds.
>
> Denise

Thanks for the perspective...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> > Don't have babies you cannot support. I know that sounds ruthless, but
> > people need to grow the hell up.
> >
>
> Sometimes not being able to support a child happens after that child is
> born. A minimum wage job is barely enough to support one adult, let
> alone an adult and a child. What do you propose for people who are laid
> off from their jobs?
>
> Unemployment is at 6% right now. Are you proposing that 6% of the
> population should starve?

No babe I'm not. Support them but also help educate them so they can
achieve a better paying job. Just throwing money at the problem won't
fix it.

I feel that _employing_ them is a better answer. Have them do something
for the money they get from the govt.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

Omelet > fnord newsmpomelet-C1DBB6.02224115092008
@news.giganews.com:

> In article > ,
> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
>> > Don't have babies you cannot support. I know that sounds ruthless,
but
>> > people need to grow the hell up.
>> >
>>
>> Sometimes not being able to support a child happens after that child
is
>> born. A minimum wage job is barely enough to support one adult, let
>> alone an adult and a child. What do you propose for people who are
laid
>> off from their jobs?
>>
>> Unemployment is at 6% right now. Are you proposing that 6% of the
>> population should starve?
>
> No babe I'm not. Support them but also help educate them so they can
> achieve a better paying job. Just throwing money at the problem won't
> fix it.
>
> I feel that _employing_ them is a better answer. Have them do
something
> for the money they get from the govt.

Minimum wage doesn't pay the bills. I am barely paying the bills on 13
an hour; which is twice the federal minimum wage.

I am all for education, but without a *college* education, or a lot of
on-the job training and promotions, (which takes a long time) it's
*very* difficult to find a job that can support a family on one income.
Even a family of two.

--
Saerah

"Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
- some hillbilly from FL

In article > ,
Saerah Gray > wrote:

> Minimum wage doesn't pay the bills. I am barely paying the bills on 13
> an hour; which is twice the federal minimum wage.
>
> I am all for education, but without a *college* education, or a lot of
> on-the job training and promotions, (which takes a long time) it's
> *very* difficult to find a job that can support a family on one income.
> Even a family of two.
>
> --
> Saerah
>
> "Welcome to Usenet, Biatch! Adapt or haul ass!"
> - some hillbilly from FL

Sometimes even having a college education is no guarantee of a good
wage... $14.00 per hour should be a living wage for my relatives, but
it's not. Not with today's economy. :-(
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

wrote:
>Support them but also help educate them so they can
>achieve a better paying job.

Educate them how exactly? By overcrowding schools even more than they
currently are? By hiring more inexperienced underqualified teachers and
paying them less? By insisting on abstinence only prerequisites for
federal funding when that propaganda clearly doesn't prevent sexual
activity? How exactly do you plan to educate poor people more? You know
that it's going to cost more, right?

>Just throwing money at the problem won't
>fix it.

Funny, throwing water at thirsty people tends to fix their thirst.
Throwing air conditioning at hot people makes them sweat less. It would
stand to reason that giving the poor more money would alleviate some
poverty.

>I feel that _employing_ them is a better answer. Have them do something
>for the money they get from the govt.

Will you watch their kids while they're out earning their keep? Will you
drive them to and from job sites because they can't afford vehicles of
their own?

Orlando

On Sep 15, 11:19*pm, Orlando Enrique Fiol > wrote:
> wrote:
> >Support them but also help educate them so they can
> >achieve a better paying job.
>
> Educate them how exactly? By overcrowding schools even more than they
> currently are? By hiring more inexperienced underqualified teachers and
> paying them less? By insisting on abstinence only prerequisites for
> federal funding when that propaganda clearly doesn't prevent sexual
> activity? How exactly do you plan to educate poor people more? You know
> that it's going to cost more, right?
>
> >Just throwing money at the problem won't
> >fix it.
>
> Funny, throwing water at thirsty people tends to fix their thirst.
> Throwing air conditioning at hot people makes them sweat less. It would
> stand to reason that giving the poor more money would alleviate some
> poverty.
>
> >I feel that _employing_ them is a better answer. Have them do something
> >for the money they get from the govt.
>
> Will you watch their kids while they're out earning their keep? Will you
> drive them to and from job sites because they can't afford vehicles of
> their own?
>
> Orlando

Frankly, if I ruled the world, I'd neuter and spay them, and any that
proved
to be ineducable would find work sorting recyclables and similar dirty
jobs. Their children would be turned over to someone competent to
raise them.

However, in the real world, that's not an option. It's a thorny
problem, because
it's difficult to educate people who don't value education. That is a
problem at
more than one socioeconomic level.

Cindy Hamilton

In article >,
says...
> In article > ,
> Saerah Gray > wrote:
>
> > > Don't have babies you cannot support. I know that sounds ruthless, but
> > > people need to grow the hell up.
> > >
> >
> > Sometimes not being able to support a child happens after that child is
> > born. A minimum wage job is barely enough to support one adult, let
> > alone an adult and a child. What do you propose for people who are laid
> > off from their jobs?
> >
> > Unemployment is at 6% right now. Are you proposing that 6% of the
> > population should starve?
>
> No babe I'm not. Support them but also help educate them so they can
> achieve a better paying job. Just throwing money at the problem won't
> fix it.
>
> I feel that _employing_ them is a better answer. Have them do something
> for the money they get from the govt.
>

Oh yes, lets educate them. I'm educated out the wazoo in the Infotech
field yet it took me 11 months to find my last job.

Are you proposing I go back to school, learn something else and pay for
it too, to the tune of about $50K? No thanks.

wrote:
>Oh yes, lets educate them. I'm educated out the wazoo in the Infotech
>field yet it took me 11 months to find my last job.
>Are you proposing I go back to school, learn something else and pay for
>it too, to the tune of about $50K? No thanks.

You could probably teach yourself most of what any job market would
require of you. But, although it would definitely be cheaper, it
wouldn't pass muster with employer qualifications. So basically, unless
someone has the ability to invest tens of thousands of dollars into an
education, they're locked out of mid level jobs that require pieces of
paper showing that you paid your way. Make no mistake about it,
employers only care about what your resume says regarding your
education; they don't check to see how much you actually learned.

Orlando

On Sep 14, 3:27*pm, Dave Smith > wrote:
> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > *Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> >> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> >> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> >> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> >> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> >> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> >> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>
> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>
> > The Answer?
>
> > No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! *If you get welfare,
> > you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> > at home...
>
> And if they don't perform?? *Fire them and let them starve? I don't
> think so.
>
> In the good old days they had debtors prisons, and babies were taken
> from poor single mothers and put up for adoption. I hope there is ahappy
> medium.

A modest proposal? It didn't fly in Ireland but Swift might have been
on to something.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! If you get welfare,
> you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> at home...

Welfare makes a mockery of thrift.



-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
> > What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> > welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student grants,
> > who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her find
> > meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support her,
> > so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could stay
> > home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and there is
> > a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>
> That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>
> The Answer?
>
> No welfare. Period. Government home work programs! If you get welfare,
> you do SOMETHING to earn it! Even if it's just sewing military uniforms
> at home...
>
> NO free ride!
>

Here's somethign to chew on. What happens when you have people living in
poverty who can't get any help or better yet find a job maybe because
they're poorly educated, maybe because they have so many kids it's
nearly impossble?

I'll tell you what happens. Crime rates go UP.

Enjoy your new life.

"Omelet" wrote in message
news
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
>> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student
>> grants,
>> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her
>> find
>> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support
>> her,
>> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could
>> stay
>> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and
>> there is
>> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>
> That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...

I would like to see an example as described above happening in New
Orleans.

-Mike

In article >,
"Mike Pearce" > wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote in message
> news
> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised on
> >> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student
> >> grants,
> >> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help her
> >> find
> >> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would support
> >> her,
> >> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could
> >> stay
> >> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and
> >> there is
> >> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
> >
> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>
> I would like to see an example as described above happening in New
> Orleans.
>
> -Mike

<cough>

I guess you were not the recipient in your state of a large number of
Katrina refugees...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

"Omelet" wrote in message
news
> "Mike Pearce" wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" wrote in message
>> > Dave Smith wrote:
>> >
>> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised
>> >> on
>> >> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student
>> >> grants,
>> >> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help
>> >> her
>> >> find
>> >> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would
>> >> support
>> >> her,
>> >> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could
>> >> stay
>> >> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and
>> >> there is
>> >> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
>> >
>> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
>>
>> I would like to see an example as described above happening in New
>> Orleans.
>>
>> -Mike
>
> <cough>
>
> I guess you were not the recipient in your state of a large number
> of
> Katrina refugees...

I didn't really expect that you'd show me an example. My state
(Louisiana) had a lot of Katrina "refugees." What do Katrina refugees
have to do with the question I asked other than the fact that many of
them happened to come from New Orleans?

Thanks,
-Mike

Mike Pearce wrote:

> "Omelet" wrote in message
> news
> > "Mike Pearce" wrote:
> >
> >> "Omelet" wrote in message
> >> > Dave Smith wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised
> >> >> on
> >> >> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student
> >> >> grants,
> >> >> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help
> >> >> her
> >> >> find
> >> >> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would
> >> >> support
> >> >> her,
> >> >> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could
> >> >> stay
> >> >> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and
> >> >> there is
> >> >> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
> >> >
> >> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
> >>
> >> I would like to see an example as described above happening in New
> >> Orleans.
> >>
> >> -Mike
> >
> > <cough>
> >
> > I guess you were not the recipient in your state of a large number
> > of
> > Katrina refugees...
>
> I didn't really expect that you'd show me an example. My state
> (Louisiana) had a lot of Katrina "refugees." What do Katrina refugees
> have to do with the question I asked other than the fact that many of
> them happened to come from New Orleans?


Are you being "ironic", or...???

The poorest of the Katrina refugees are a a largely shifteless and criminal
welfare underclass...go to any of the nabes in the cities where some of them
settled (Houston...) and you'll see...NO one wants them, either as neighbors
or co - workers because of their assorted ghetto pathologies.


--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
m...
>

> The poorest of the Katrina refugees are a a largely shifteless and
> criminal
> welfare underclass...go to any of the nabes in the cities where some
> of them
> settled (Houston...) and you'll see...NO one wants them, either as
> neighbors
> or co - workers because of their assorted ghetto pathologies.
>

Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those kind
of folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no monopoly
on scumbags.

-Mike

"Mike Pearce" > wrote

> Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those kind of
> folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no monopoly on
> scumbags.
>
For real. Chicago obviously has the biggest one--Queen Greg.

Mike Pearce wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
> m...
> >
>
> > The poorest of the Katrina refugees are a a largely shifteless and
> > criminal
> > welfare underclass...go to any of the nabes in the cities where some
> > of them
> > settled (Houston...) and you'll see...NO one wants them, either as
> > neighbors
> > or co - workers because of their assorted ghetto pathologies.
> >
>
> Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those kind
> of folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no monopoly
> on scumbags.


Nope, but they have a LOT of 'em, Mike...which is why NO is one of America's
Turd World hellholes, same as Dee - troit, St. Louis/East St. Louis, Gary
IN, vast swaths of Chicawgo, etc...


--
Best
Greg

In article >,
"Mike Pearce" > wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" wrote in message
> m...
> >
>
> > The poorest of the Katrina refugees are a a largely shifteless and
> > criminal
> > welfare underclass...go to any of the nabes in the cities where some
> > of them
> > settled (Houston...) and you'll see...NO one wants them, either as
> > neighbors
> > or co - workers because of their assorted ghetto pathologies.
> >
>
> Who would want to live near shiftless and criminal types? Those kind
> of folks can be found just about anywhere. New Orleans has no monopoly
> on scumbags.
>
> -Mike

ROFL!!!

Thanks for the morning chuckle!

I see you've never been there. I have.
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain

In article > ,
"Gregory Morrow" > wrote:

> Mike Pearce wrote:
>
> > "Omelet" wrote in message
> > news
> > > "Mike Pearce" wrote:
> > >
> > >> "Omelet" wrote in message
> > >> > Dave Smith wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> What do you do in a case like that. He is a woman who was raised
> > >> >> on
> > >> >> welfare, whose college education subsidized and received student
> > >> >> grants,
> > >> >> who had the opportunity to get education and training to help
> > >> >> her
> > >> >> find
> > >> >> meaningful employment. But she knew that the system would
> > >> >> support
> > >> >> her,
> > >> >> so she intentionally got herself pregnant knowing that she could
> > >> >> stay
> > >> >> home and not have to work. That was the way she was raised, and
> > >> >> there is
> > >> >> a good chance that her kid will grow up with the same mind set.
> > >> >
> > >> > That appears to be the problem in New Orleans...
> > >>
> > >> I would like to see an example as described above happening in New
> > >> Orleans.
> > >>
> > >> -Mike
> > >
> > > <cough>
> > >
> > > I guess you were not the recipient in your state of a large number
> > > of
> > > Katrina refugees...
> >
> > I didn't really expect that you'd show me an example. My state
> > (Louisiana) had a lot of Katrina "refugees." What do Katrina refugees
> > have to do with the question I asked other than the fact that many of
> > them happened to come from New Orleans?
>
>
> Are you being "ironic", or...???
>
> The poorest of the Katrina refugees are a a largely shifteless and criminal
> welfare underclass...go to any of the nabes in the cities where some of them
> settled (Houston...) and you'll see...NO one wants them, either as neighbors
> or co - workers because of their assorted ghetto pathologies.

It's possible he really is that ignorant...
It's pretty well known that a lot of the worst of the Katrina refugees
were generational welfare recipients, drug addicts and sellers. They
had a serious problem down in San Antonio. Crime rates skyrocketed in
areas where they were housed and apt. complexes had drugs being sold in
the hallways.

The increase in local crime rates after Katrina is what drove me to get
off my ass and get my CCW/CHL and learn how to use a hand gun...
--
Peace! Om

"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed; if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed." --Mark Twain