http://www.recfoodcooking.com/

Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

ChattyCathy said...

> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>
> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...


Oh shit, I win again!

I've gotta tin foil sweep out the house, dammit!!!

Turn my tin foil into Jill good wishes. Only takes one of each!!!

Andy

Andy <q> wrote:

> ChattyCathy said...
>
>> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>>
>> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
>
>
> Oh shit, I win again!

It's tough, but somebody has to do it...
>
> I've gotta tin foil sweep out the house, dammit!!!
>
> Turn my tin foil into Jill good wishes. Only takes one of each!!!

Nice gesture. I hope she's doing OK too.

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

"ChattyCathy" > wrote in message
...
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>
> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
> --
> Cheers
> Chatty Cathy
>
> Egg tastes better when it's not on your face...

Quite frankly the day they deregulated the American Airline system is the
day the consumer got shafted once again.

Yes if you take 2 seats you should pay for 2 seats.

Unless it's an absolute emergency I refuse to fly any more. I'll take the
train or drive.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Saying that obese people should be charged for taking up 2 seats sounds
heartless. How about, anyone who would like 2 seats may pay extra and
get them? Reasons could be wanting space for a computer, having a dog
in a crate, traveling with a valuable cello, being in a full body cast,
or just being normal sized and prefering to spend extra for the leg
room. Put me in that last category. I'm actually on the small side.
An observer would say that I fit in airplane seats. Yet I never feel
like I have enough space. There are plenty of times when it would be
worth it to me to pay the extra money for the comfort of being able to
put the arm rest up and curl up across 2 seats. I shouldn't have to
explain why I want the 2 seats to the airline.


--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
. ..
> Saying that obese people should be charged for taking up 2 seats sounds
> heartless. How about, anyone who would like 2 seats may pay extra and get
> them? Reasons could be wanting space for a computer, having a dog in a
> crate, traveling with a valuable cello, being in a full body cast, or just
> being normal sized and prefering to spend extra for the leg room. Put me
> in that last category. I'm actually on the small side. An observer would
> say that I fit in airplane seats. Yet I never feel like I have enough
> space. There are plenty of times when it would be worth it to me to pay
> the extra money for the comfort of being able to put the arm rest up and
> curl up across 2 seats. I shouldn't have to explain why I want the 2
> seats to the airline.
>
>
> --Lia

Paying for and receiving 2 seats has ALWAYS been an option.

Once I had to take a hand made prototype robot to Montreal for a meeting.

Because of the size and shape we purchased a second seat for the robot & he
sat next to me on the flight. Taking him through Canadian customs was a
different story. I had to show them his return ticket.

It did create a little commotion, when I belted him/it in.


True story.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Dimitri wrote:
>
> Paying for and receiving 2 seats has ALWAYS been an option.
>
> Once I had to take a hand made prototype robot to Montreal for a meeting.
>
> Because of the size and shape we purchased a second seat for the robot &
> he sat next to me on the flight. Taking him through Canadian customs
> was a different story. I had to show them his return ticket.
>
> It did create a little commotion, when I belted him/it in.
>
>
> True story.


I believe you, but my experience has been different. I don't remember
how long it's been, but I've been given grief. I've been told that if
the flight is overbooked, I could end up paying for 2 seats and only
getting one because my 2nd person didn't show up. I've had airline
personnel argue with me that I couldn't have a 2nd seat because I didn't
need it or that I couldn't have 2 seats at the same low price. I
stopped trying.


--Lia

On Wed 16 Jul 2008 11:39:20a, Julia Altshuler told us...

> Saying that obese people should be charged for taking up 2 seats sounds
> heartless. How about, anyone who would like 2 seats may pay extra and
> get them? Reasons could be wanting space for a computer, having a dog
> in a crate, traveling with a valuable cello, being in a full body cast,
> or just being normal sized and prefering to spend extra for the leg
> room. Put me in that last category. I'm actually on the small side.
> An observer would say that I fit in airplane seats. Yet I never feel
> like I have enough space. There are plenty of times when it would be
> worth it to me to pay the extra money for the comfort of being able to
> put the arm rest up and curl up across 2 seats. I shouldn't have to
> explain why I want the 2 seats to the airline.
>
>
> --Lia

No, you shouldn't have to explain why you want two seats. However, when
someone is so obese that they cannot possibly fit in one seat (yet insists
they only want one seat), I don't think it's fair to everyone else to allow
them to have two seats for the price of one (which is what often ends up
happening).


--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 07(VII)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
How come there's only one Monopolies
Commission?
-------------------------------------------

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:01:07 +0200, ChattyCathy
> wrote:

>http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>
>Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...

I think they should give us more seat space AND more distance between
rows. I hate feeling like I'm in a cattle car. Business class
doesn't feel any better than economy does to me, it's just closer to
1st class.


--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Saying that obese people should be charged for taking up 2 seats sounds
> heartless. How about, anyone who would like 2 seats may pay extra and
> get them?

How about, what's stopping them from doing that now?

But that doesn't solve the problem of some blubber-ass that's two people
wide, and thus two seats wide getting two for the price of one. Them
paying for both seats shouldn't be a *choice* like you buying two for your
own convenience. It's their ass; it's their responsibility to pay
its way.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> No, you shouldn't have to explain why you want two seats. However, when
> someone is so obese that they cannot possibly fit in one seat (yet insists
> they only want one seat), I don't think it's fair to everyone else to allow
> them to have two seats for the price of one (which is what often ends up
> happening).


Two scenarios:


1) The plane isn't full. The obese person takes up 2 seats. I have no
problem with letting the obese person use the extra room which is
available. I don't think s/he should have to pay extra. It's no
different from my curling up with my feet in the seat next to me.
(We're not talking about sprawling dirty feet. We're talking about the
way I prefer to sit with my socked feet curled up under me.)


2) The plane is booked solid. I have the middle seat, but the person
with the window or aisle next to me is taking up my seat as well as
his/her own. I get the flight attendent, explain that there isn't
enough room for us both to fly safely, and politely and persistently
refuse to squeeze myself into a seat where I can't put down the armrests
and occupy my full seat. I avoid words like "fat pig" and concentrate
on safety and evacuation procedures with emphasis on everyone on the
plane being entitled to a safe comfortable flight. I leave it up to the
airline to decide how much to charge the obese person. As long as I get
my safe full seat, it's none of my business.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Dimitri wrote:
>>
>> Paying for and receiving 2 seats has ALWAYS been an option.
>>
>> Once I had to take a hand made prototype robot to Montreal for a meeting.
>>
>> Because of the size and shape we purchased a second seat for the robot &
>> he sat next to me on the flight. Taking him through Canadian customs
>> was a different story. I had to show them his return ticket.
>>
>> It did create a little commotion, when I belted him/it in.
>>
>>
>> True story.
>
>
> I believe you, but my experience has been different. I don't remember
> how long it's been, but I've been given grief. I've been told that if
> the flight is overbooked, I could end up paying for 2 seats and only
> getting one because my 2nd person didn't show up. I've had airline
> personnel argue with me that I couldn't have a 2nd seat because I didn't
> need it or that I couldn't have 2 seats at the same low price. I
> stopped trying.

Then disregard *that* part of my reply to your other post, just uploaded.
But I'm not withdrawing my point that if one's size requires an entire
seat per cheek then both seats should be paid for or both cheeks don't
ride.


--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html

"sf" wrote in message ...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:01:07 +0200, ChattyCathy
> > wrote:
>
>>http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>>
>>Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...
>
> I think they should give us more seat space AND more distance between
> rows. I hate feeling like I'm in a cattle car. Business class
> doesn't feel any better than economy does to me, it's just closer to
> 1st class.


There is no reason to THINK you are in a cattle car YOU ARE!

Our wonderful free enterprise system does have certain drawbacks and the
airlines are one area. We all wanted lower and lower and lower fares - well
we got them!

Traveling used to be fun, luxurious, and you were treated like a valued
customer. Not so any more. Deregulation has created WAL MART AIR and that
is what we are forced to fly. Don't like it? Take your business to another
side of the airport.

The only place Business Class matters is on International Flights.

Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

Dimitri wrote:

> Yes if you take 2 seats you should pay for 2 seats.

If I took 2 seats I would want to buy 2. I don't take 2 seats
and I would like to buy 2, though I've never actually done so.
I can't stand to feel crammed in.

I don't know why people think it's discriminatory, why would
anyone think it's fair that someone pays for their seat and
can only use 2/3 of it.

nancy

Nancy Young > wrote:

>I don't know why people think it's discriminatory, why would
>anyone think it's fair that someone pays for their seat and
>can only use 2/3 of it.

Once I was on a flight and was returning from the back of the
plane towards my seat when the airplane hit a bunch of extreme
turbulence. Not wanting to be impacted against the ceiling
of the airplane by turbulence, I found the nearest empty
aisle seat, sat in it and fastened the seat belt.

At this point the person next to me said "Hey! I paid for
that empty seat! You can't sit there!!". Fortunately a
member of the cabin crew immediately told this guy to shut
up and let me sit there until the turbulence subsided.

This has nothing to do with the BMI issue of course.

Steve

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> If I took 2 seats I would want to buy 2. I don't take 2 seats
> and I would like to buy 2, though I've never actually done so.
> I can't stand to feel crammed in.
>
> I don't know why people think it's discriminatory, why would
> anyone think it's fair that someone pays for their seat and
> can only use 2/3 of it.


These are 2 related but different questions.
One way to phrase the question is:


Should fat people who take up 2 seats have to pay for 2 seats?


Answer: it's none of my business how much the airline charges their
customers for seats. Prices on the same flight already vary incredibly
depending on all sort of market factors (when you booked the flight, who
booked the flight, how full the flight is, whether you were willing to
be bumped, frequent flier miles, discount clubs, etc.)


Another way to phrase the question is:


Is it O.K. for fat people to take up their own seat and that of the
person seated next to them such that the seatmate ends up squashed into
half a seat, a situation which is both uncomfortable and unsafe?


Answer: Of course not! (Or rather, hell no!) And the airline can
solve the problem any way they like. Charging the passenger for 2
tickets is one way. There are others like giving everyone larger seats.
It's not up to consumers/passengers to solve the airlines' problem.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Saying that obese people should be charged for taking up 2 seats sounds
> heartless. How about, anyone who would like 2 seats may pay extra and
> get them? Reasons could be wanting space for a computer, having a dog
> in a crate, traveling with a valuable cello, being in a full body cast,
> or just being normal sized and prefering to spend extra for the leg
> room. Put me in that last category. I'm actually on the small side.
> An observer would say that I fit in airplane seats. Yet I never feel
> like I have enough space. There are plenty of times when it would be
> worth it to me to pay the extra money for the comfort of being able to
> put the arm rest up and curl up across 2 seats. I shouldn't have to
> explain why I want the 2 seats to the airline.

I might go along with charging more for really obese people if there was
more regulation on seating size. I am a big guy and have to admit that I
could loose a few pounds, but I am in reasonable shape. I get regular
exercise. I just got back from a 20 mile bicycle ride, and I my sport of
choice is equestrian jumping. I have been on enough planes to know that
different planes and different airlines have different seat sizes. On my
first transatlantic flight (Air Transat), I was crammed into seat that I
could hardly fit into and was uncomfortable for the entire 9 hour flight.
The next time I went we paid extra to fly with KLM in the hope of a more
comfortable flight, but it was just as bad. The next time we went with Air
Canada and the seating was quite comfortable. I had lots of room in the
seat and lots of leg room. On my recent flight we went with KLM, but this
time the seating was extremely comfortable. Two of the short flights were
with SAS, and the seating on their planes was also quite roomy.

I would be concerned that if airlines were allowed to start charging extra
for larger customers they would reduce their seating configuration to give
them an excuse to gouge the larger passengers.

Size and weight is not just a matter of obesity. Some people are bigger
than others and people from some cultures tend to be smaller than others.
People from China and Japan would probably have lots of room in the seats
on that Air Transat flight I took, but most North American men would find
it cramped. It is not unusual for reasonably fit NA men to be 6 feet tall
and weigh more close to 250, and weighing less than 150 does not mean
someone is skinny.

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>>
>> If I took 2 seats I would want to buy 2. I don't take 2 seats
>> and I would like to buy 2, though I've never actually done so.
>> I can't stand to feel crammed in.
>>
>> I don't know why people think it's discriminatory, why would
>> anyone think it's fair that someone pays for their seat and
>> can only use 2/3 of it.
>
>
> These are 2 related but different questions.
> One way to phrase the question is:
>
>
> Should fat people who take up 2 seats have to pay for 2 seats?
>
>
> Answer: it's none of my business how much the airline charges their
> customers for seats.

I think that's overthinking the question ... I don't think anyone cares
what other people pay until that person is taking up half their seat.
I don't think the question was Look around at other aisles and see
if any overweight people are too big for their seat. I think the question
was Is someone taking up *your* space, even if the question wasn't
phrased perfectly that way.

nancy

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>The only place Business Class matters is on International Flights.

Please believe me when I say BTDT business international. The biggest
difference I saw was business got individual cd players, economy
didn't. We also had double seats, no triples... but I wouldn't bet
money that they were any more spacious than economy in width or
distance between rows. Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first
class, that's about it. I think of Business as the buffer zone
between 1st class and the great unwashed in economy.
>
>Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.

I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called airships for
nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my grandparents going
"somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg



--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Nancy Young wrote:
> >
> > If I took 2 seats I would want to buy 2. I don't take 2 seats
> > and I would like to buy 2, though I've never actually done so.
> > I can't stand to feel crammed in.
> >
> > I don't know why people think it's discriminatory, why would
> > anyone think it's fair that someone pays for their seat and
> > can only use 2/3 of it.
>
> These are 2 related but different questions.
> One way to phrase the question is:
>
> Should fat people who take up 2 seats have to pay for 2 seats?
>
> Answer: it's none of my business how much the airline charges their
> customers for seats. Prices on the same flight already vary incredibly
> depending on all sort of market factors (when you booked the flight, who
> booked the flight, how full the flight is, whether you were willing to
> be bumped, frequent flier miles, discount clubs, etc.)

** Buying paint from a hardware store **

Customer: Hi, how much is your interior flat latex paint in Bone White?

Clerk: We have a medium quality, which is $16 a gallan, and premium,
which is $22 a gallon. How many gallons would you like?

Customer: I'll take five gallons of the medium quality, please.

Clerk: That will be $80 plus tax.



==============================================
** Buying paint from an airline **


Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?

Clerk: Well, sir, that all depends.

Customer: Depends on what?

Clerk: Actually a lot of things.

Customer: How about giving me an average price?

Clerk: Wow, that's too hard a question. The lowest price is $9 a
gallon, and we have 150 different prices up to $200 a gallon.

Customer: What's the difference in the paint?

Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference; it's all the same paint.

Customer: Well, then, I'd like some of that $9 paint.

Clerk: Well, first I need to ask you a few questions. W hen do you
intend to use it?

Customer: I want to paint tomorrow, on my day off.

Clerk: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is the $200 paint.

Customer: What? When would I have to paint in order to get the $9
version?

Clerk: That would be in three weeks, but you will also have to agree
to start painting before Friday of that week and continue painting
until at least Sunday.

Customer: You've got to be kidding!

Clerk: Sir, we don't kid around here. Of course, I'll have to check
to see if we have any of that paint available before I can sell it to
you.

Customer: What do you mean check to see if you can sell it to me? You
have shelves full of that stuff; I can see it right there.

Clerk: Just because you can see it doesn't mean that we have it. It
may be the same paint, but we sell only a certain number of gallons on
any given week. Oh, and by the way, the price just went to $12.

Customer: You mean the price went up while we were talking?

Clerk: Yes, sir. You see, we change prices and rules thousands of
times a day, and since you haven't actually walked out of the store
with your paint yet, we just decided to change. Unless you want the
same thing to happen again, I would suggest that you get on with your
purchase. How many gallons do you want?

Customer: I don't know exactly. Maybe five gallons. Maybe I should
buy six gallons just to make sure I have enough.

Clerk: Oh, no, sir, you can't do that. If you buy the paint and then
don't use it, you will be liable for penalties and possible
confiscation of the paint you already have.

Customer: What?

Clerk: That's right. We can sell you enough paint to do your
kitchen, bathroom, hall, and north bedroom, but if you stop painting
before you do the bedroom, you will violation of our tariffs.

Customer: But what does it mater to your whether I use all the paint?
I already paid for it!

Clerk: Sir, there's no point in getting upset; that's just the way it
is. We make plans upon the idea that you will use all the paint, and
when you don't, it just causes us all kinds of problems.

Customer: This is crazy! I suppose something terrible will happen if
I don't keep painting until after Saturday night!

Clerk: Yes, sir, it will.

Customer: Well, that does it! I'm going somewhere else to buy my
paint.

Clerk: That won't do you any good, sir. We all have the same rules.

"sf" wrote in message news
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>>The only place Business Class matters is on International Flights.
>
> Please believe me when I say BTDT business international. The biggest
> difference I saw was business got individual cd players, economy
> didn't. We also had double seats, no triples... but I wouldn't bet
> money that they were any more spacious than economy in width or
> distance between rows. Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first
> class, that's about it. I think of Business as the buffer zone
> between 1st class and the great unwashed in economy.
>>
>>Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.
>
> I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called airships for
> nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my grandparents going
> "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg


That is when people dressed to travel.


Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to Chicago DC 10's?

That's when you could move around play cards and get a little hammered.

The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail.

:-)


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:30:53 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

> I'll take the
>train or drive.

Taking a train from Butte Montana to New Orleans becomes a problem.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 15:51:37 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>If I took 2 seats I would want to buy 2. I don't take 2 seats
>and I would like to buy 2, though I've never actually done so.
>I can't stand to feel crammed in.

You can buy two seats...but that doesn't mean you will be sitting
together on the heavy flights. Your 2/3'rd ass might be seating six
rows behind your fleshy thighs.

"Billy" <Hereiam@hotmaildotcom> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:30:53 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> wrote:
>
>> I'll take the
>>train or drive.
>
> Taking a train from Butte Montana to New Orleans becomes a problem.

Why? drive to your nearest amtrack stop - take the Empire Builder to
Chicago then take the "Ciry of New Orleans" to New Orleans.

Take your pick;


Wolf Point, MT (MT)
Glasgow, MT
Malta, MT
Havre, MT
Shelby, MT
Cut Bank, MT
Browning, MT
East Glacier Park, MT
Essex, MT-Izaak Walton Inn
West Glacier, MT (Apgar)
Whitefish, MT
(b Kalispell, Missoula)
Libby, MT


--
Old Scoundrel

(AKA Dimitri)

ChattyCathy wrote:
> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/
>
> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...

So now the surveys are off-topic, too? Great.

ObFood:

Got a lovely package in the mail from Barb -- watermelon pickles and
some Gedney cherry preserves. It was like Christmas in July!

Serene

--
"I think I have an umami receptor that has developed sentience." -- Stef

ChattyCathy wrote on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:01:07 +0200:

> http://www.recfoodcooking.com/

> Gonna blame Lou Decruss for reminding me about this one...

I'd vote to have if a fat person pay for two seats if they cannot get
in and put the arm rest down. On the other hand, airlines are far from
generous with space.

There is also the fairly normal-sized person who puts a blanket over
their head, goes to sleep and leans over into the adjacent seat where I
am sitting. There are quite often noisy objections when they are
wakened, even accusations of assault! I have later wondered whether I
should have asked an attendant to do the wakening.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 13:48:33 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:
>
>"sf" wrote in message news

>> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
>
>
>That is when people dressed to travel.
>
>
>Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to Chicago DC 10's?
>
No. I wasn't old enough to drink. Sounds fun though.

>That's when you could move around play cards and get a little hammered.
>
As you know, we need to be able to get up and move around. Airlines
should be held liable for the medical issues we encounter due to being
confined in such close quarters for far too long.

>The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail.
>




--
I never worry about diets. The only carrots that interest me are the number of carats in a diamond.

Mae West

Dimitri wrote:

>
> Our wonderful free enterprise system does have certain drawbacks and the
> airlines are one area. We all wanted lower and lower and lower fares -
> well we got them!
>
> Traveling used to be fun, luxurious, and you were treated like a valued
> customer. Not so any more. Deregulation has created WAL MART AIR and
> that is what we are forced to fly. Don't like it? Take your business
> to another side of the airport.
>


The trouble is that much of the American public has turned into
obese, uncouth bozos. They fly dirty, smelly, unkempt, half-dressed
and don't give a d@mn. They let their children run wild on the plane,
spewing germs for hours. (Ask me about the munchkin across the aisle
from me on a flight from Denver to D.C. in January who coughed and
sneezed without covering his face for four hours, and the five weeks of
flu I suffered as a result.)

Our airlines at DIA now have special double-wide wheelchairs available
to carry wide loads and they are used frequently.

Instead of charging $15 for the first checked bag, the airlines would do
better to charge obese fliers by the pound.

As far as baggage, you wouldn't believe the size of the bags people are
trying to carry on, or the number of them. Loading and unloading the
planes will take forever with all the oversized excess bags. (Doesn't a
dog in a soft-side carrier count as one bag?)

Aaaaargh.

gloria p

Gregory wrote on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:52:33 -0500:

>> "sf" wrote:

> >> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>> The only place Business Class matters is on International
> >>> Flights.
> >>
> >> Please believe me when I say BTDT business international.
> >> The biggest difference I saw was business got individual cd
>
> >> >> players, economy didn't. We also had double seats, no
> >> triples... but I wouldn't bet money that they were any more
> >> spacious than economy in width or distance between rows
> >> . Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first class, that's
> >> about it. I
>
> >>> >>> Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.
> >>
> >> I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called
>
> >> >> airships for nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my
> >> grandparents going "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
> >> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
>
> That is when people dressed to travel.
>>
>> Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to
>> Chicago DC 10's?
>>
>> That's when you could move around play cards and get a little
>> hammered.

> Yep, I flew out to LA on that c. 1980...

> They had peanuts too...and IIRC the piano was made out of
> aluminum, a wood piano woulda been kinda heavy even in those
> fuel - wasteful daze.

>
> Darn, now you got me feelin' kinda old, Dimitri...

> ;-|

Considerable clipping but I wonder how much you'd personally pay for
those amenities? The luxury I remember was usually paid for by expense
account. I wonder what I would expect if I were to pay something more,
say 50%, than the usual cattle-car price?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Dimitri wrote:

> "sf" wrote:

> > On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>The only place Business Class matters is on International Flights.
> >
> > Please believe me when I say BTDT business international. The biggest
> > difference I saw was business got individual cd players, economy
> > didn't. We also had double seats, no triples... but I wouldn't bet
> > money that they were any more spacious than economy in width or
> > distance between rows. Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first
> > class, that's about it. I think of Business as the buffer zone
> > between 1st class and the great unwashed in economy.
> >>
> >>Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.
> >
> > I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called airships for
> > nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my grandparents going
> > "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
> > http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
>
>
> That is when people dressed to travel.
>
>
> Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to Chicago DC 10's?
>
> That's when you could move around play cards and get a little hammered.
>
> The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail.
>
> :-)


Yep, I flew out to LA on that c. 1980...

They had peanuts too...and IIRC the piano was made out of aluminum, a wood
piano woulda been kinda heavy even in those fuel - wasteful daze.

Some folks would get kinda lit and start bangin' on that piano...good times
in the sky...!!!

I flew out to the West Coast a few times in the early 80's, I'd always
choose the flights on the basis of their meals. In American's coach class
you could special - order a cold seafood platter in lieu of the regular
entree (and you had a choice of entrees in any case in coach back then)...it
was pretty good.

Darn, now you got me feelin' kinda old, Dimitri...

;-|

--
Best
Greg

On Wed 16 Jul 2008 12:20:30p, Julia Altshuler told us...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>> No, you shouldn't have to explain why you want two seats. However,
>> when someone is so obese that they cannot possibly fit in one seat (yet
>> insists they only want one seat), I don't think it's fair to everyone
>> else to allow them to have two seats for the price of one (which is
>> what often ends up happening).
>
>
> Two scenarios:
>
>
> 1) The plane isn't full. The obese person takes up 2 seats. I have no
> problem with letting the obese person use the extra room which is
> available. I don't think s/he should have to pay extra. It's no
> different from my curling up with my feet in the seat next to me.
> (We're not talking about sprawling dirty feet. We're talking about the
> way I prefer to sit with my socked feet curled up under me.)
>
>
> 2) The plane is booked solid. I have the middle seat, but the person
> with the window or aisle next to me is taking up my seat as well as
> his/her own. I get the flight attendent, explain that there isn't
> enough room for us both to fly safely, and politely and persistently
> refuse to squeeze myself into a seat where I can't put down the armrests
> and occupy my full seat. I avoid words like "fat pig" and concentrate
> on safety and evacuation procedures with emphasis on everyone on the
> plane being entitled to a safe comfortable flight. I leave it up to the
> airline to decide how much to charge the obese person. As long as I get
> my safe full seat, it's none of my business.
>
>
> --Lia
>
>

Lia, I agree with both of your scenarios. However, there has to be a
consistent policy that the airline follows. It's too large an industry not
to have such policies in place and insure that they're followed.

If they did this, it should avoid having disgruntled passengers and
confrontational dialog.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 07(VII)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Without love and trust all you can be
in life is alone.
-------------------------------------------

Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

>Lia, I agree with both of your scenarios. However, there has to be a
>consistent policy that the airline follows. It's too large an industry not
>to have such policies in place and insure that they're followed.
>
>If they did this, it should avoid having disgruntled passengers and
>confrontational dialog.

While I see where you are coming from, sometimes the best approach
to a situation is to muddle through, and deal with issues as they
arise, rather than having a firm policy.

From the airlines' perspective, even with no stated policy,
most passengers are not too large for most seats; in the cases
where they are, often the seat next to them is empty, they can
change seats around to arrange this, or they can move them to
business/first, or the passenger next to them might not complain.
In a tiny fraction of cases, with no policy, they will have to
bump the large passenger to the next flight.

Whereas if they had a stated policy, either large passengers would
end up having to buy two seats, or a business/first seat,
ahead of time; or if they aren't required to do so, they'd
be entitled to sit in a coach seat. Either scenario has
significant disadvntages to the "muddle through it" approach.

It boils down to the airlines have good reasons to handle
it the way they're handling it now.

Steve

On Wed 16 Jul 2008 01:48:33p, Dimitri told us...

>
> "sf" wrote in message news
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>The only place Business Class matters is on International Flights.
>>
>> Please believe me when I say BTDT business international. The biggest
>> difference I saw was business got individual cd players, economy
>> didn't. We also had double seats, no triples... but I wouldn't bet
>> money that they were any more spacious than economy in width or
>> distance between rows. Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first
>> class, that's about it. I think of Business as the buffer zone
>> between 1st class and the great unwashed in economy.
>>>
>>>Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.
>>
>> I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called airships for
>> nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my grandparents going
>> "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
>> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
>
>
> That is when people dressed to travel.
>
>
> Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to Chicago DC 10's?
>
> That's when you could move around play cards and get a little hammered.
>
> The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail.
>
>:-)
>
>

Yes, I do remember all that. Flying hasn't been the same since. It used
to be a pleasaure to fly. Now it's torture.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 07(VII)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
The Old-Time Rock Rule: The great
music you grew up with, that your
parents didn't understand and didn't
like, is always better than the
strange junk your kids listen to.
-------------------------------------------

On Wed 16 Jul 2008 12:17:56p, Blinky the Shark told us...

> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> Saying that obese people should be charged for taking up 2 seats sounds
>> heartless. How about, anyone who would like 2 seats may pay extra and
>> get them?
>
> How about, what's stopping them from doing that now?
>
> But that doesn't solve the problem of some blubber-ass that's two people
> wide, and thus two seats wide getting two for the price of one. Them
> paying for both seats shouldn't be a *choice* like you buying two for
your
> own convenience. It's their ass; it's their responsibility to pay
> its way.
>
>

Very well expressed, Blinky!!!!!

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 07(VII)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
I turn around \ (it's fear) \ I turn
around again\ (it's love) (Laurie Anderson)
-------------------------------------------

James Silverton wrote:

> Gregory wrote on Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:52:33 -0500:
>
> >> "sf" wrote:
>
> > >> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0700, "Dimitri"
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The only place Business Class matters is on International
> > >>> Flights.
> > >>
> > >> Please believe me when I say BTDT business international.
> > >> The biggest difference I saw was business got individual cd
> >
> > >> >> players, economy didn't. We also had double seats, no
> > >> triples... but I wouldn't bet money that they were any more
> > >> spacious than economy in width or distance between rows
> > >> . Like I said, it's closer (physically) to first class, that's
> > >> about it. I
> >
> > >>> >>> Do I sound bitter? The reason? I am bitter.
> > >>
> > >> I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called
> >
> > >> >> airships for nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my
> > >> grandparents going "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
> > >> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
> >
> > That is when people dressed to travel.
> >>
> >> Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to
> >> Chicago DC 10's?
> >>
> >> That's when you could move around play cards and get a little
> >> hammered.
>
> > Yep, I flew out to LA on that c. 1980...
>
> > They had peanuts too...and IIRC the piano was made out of
> > aluminum, a wood piano woulda been kinda heavy even in those
> > fuel - wasteful daze.
>
> >
> > Darn, now you got me feelin' kinda old, Dimitri...
>
> > ;-|
>
> Considerable clipping but I wonder how much you'd personally pay for
> those amenities? The luxury I remember was usually paid for by expense
> account. I wonder what I would expect if I were to pay something more,
> say 50%, than the usual cattle-car price?


I paid for my own ticket, and I think the ORD - West Coast fares I paid were
$99.00 each way, which was considered a big bargain (US coast - to - coast
was $129.00 each way during this fare sale IIRC). This was shortly after US
airline deregulation (the US Civil Aeronautics Board had been dissolved in
1978; they had set fares and handed out route authority)...outifts like
Texas International (which later became Southwest IIRC?) had started
offering cheap "peanut fares", especially in the west, and the low - cost
People Express airlines was on the horizon or just starting up. Former
charter outfits like Capitol also jumped into the affray with cheapo fares
(old DC - 8's from ORD to Honolulu or Frankfurt, anyone...???)...

So that $200.00 r/t I paid would translate to what, about $600.00 ++ in 2008
dollars? I can get a cheaper fare now, so I'll forego the peanuts and
aluminum piano and cold seafood platters in coach to get the cheaper price.

If it's any consolation, Continental is - or was, until it's recent
announcement of charging for soft drinks in coach - the only US legacy
airline still serving full meals to coach class pax...


;-)


--
Best
Greg

On Wed 16 Jul 2008 01:39:17p, Dave Smith told us...

> Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
>> Nancy Young wrote:
>> >
>> > If I took 2 seats I would want to buy 2. I don't take 2 seats
>> > and I would like to buy 2, though I've never actually done so.
>> > I can't stand to feel crammed in.
>> >
>> > I don't know why people think it's discriminatory, why would
>> > anyone think it's fair that someone pays for their seat and can only
>> > use 2/3 of it.
>>
>> These are 2 related but different questions.
>> One way to phrase the question is:
>>
>> Should fat people who take up 2 seats have to pay for 2 seats?
>>
>> Answer: it's none of my business how much the airline charges their
>> customers for seats. Prices on the same flight already vary incredibly
>> depending on all sort of market factors (when you booked the flight, who
>> booked the flight, how full the flight is, whether you were willing to
>> be bumped, frequent flier miles, discount clubs, etc.)
>
> ** Buying paint from a hardware store **
>
> Customer: Hi, how much is your interior flat latex paint in Bone White?
>
> Clerk: We have a medium quality, which is $16 a gallan, and premium,
> which is $22 a gallon. How many gallons would you like?
>
> Customer: I'll take five gallons of the medium quality, please.
>
> Clerk: That will be $80 plus tax.
>
>
>
> ==============================================
> ** Buying paint from an airline **
>
>
> Customer: Hi, how much is your paint?
>
> Clerk: Well, sir, that all depends.
>
> Customer: Depends on what?
>
> Clerk: Actually a lot of things.
>
> Customer: How about giving me an average price?
>
> Clerk: Wow, that's too hard a question. The lowest price is $9 a
> gallon, and we have 150 different prices up to $200 a gallon.
>
> Customer: What's the difference in the paint?
>
> Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference; it's all the same paint.
>
> Customer: Well, then, I'd like some of that $9 paint.
>
> Clerk: Well, first I need to ask you a few questions. W hen do you
> intend to use it?
>
> Customer: I want to paint tomorrow, on my day off.
>
> Clerk: Sir, the paint for tomorrow is the $200 paint.
>
> Customer: What? When would I have to paint in order to get the $9
> version?
>
> Clerk: That would be in three weeks, but you will also have to agree
> to start painting before Friday of that week and continue painting
> until at least Sunday.
>
> Customer: You've got to be kidding!
>
> Clerk: Sir, we don't kid around here. Of course, I'll have to check
> to see if we have any of that paint available before I can sell it to
> you.
>
> Customer: What do you mean check to see if you can sell it to me? You
> have shelves full of that stuff; I can see it right there.
>
> Clerk: Just because you can see it doesn't mean that we have it. It
> may be the same paint, but we sell only a certain number of gallons on
> any given week. Oh, and by the way, the price just went to $12.
>
> Customer: You mean the price went up while we were talking?
>
> Clerk: Yes, sir. You see, we change prices and rules thousands of
> times a day, and since you haven't actually walked out of the store
> with your paint yet, we just decided to change. Unless you want the
> same thing to happen again, I would suggest that you get on with your
> purchase. How many gallons do you want?
>
> Customer: I don't know exactly. Maybe five gallons. Maybe I should
> buy six gallons just to make sure I have enough.
>
> Clerk: Oh, no, sir, you can't do that. If you buy the paint and then
> don't use it, you will be liable for penalties and possible
> confiscation of the paint you already have.
>
> Customer: What?
>
> Clerk: That's right. We can sell you enough paint to do your
> kitchen, bathroom, hall, and north bedroom, but if you stop painting
> before you do the bedroom, you will violation of our tariffs.
>
> Customer: But what does it mater to your whether I use all the paint?
> I already paid for it!
>
> Clerk: Sir, there's no point in getting upset; that's just the way it
> is. We make plans upon the idea that you will use all the paint, and
> when you don't, it just causes us all kinds of problems.
>
> Customer: This is crazy! I suppose something terrible will happen if
> I don't keep painting until after Saturday night!
>
> Clerk: Yes, sir, it will.
>
> Customer: Well, that does it! I'm going somewhere else to buy my
> paint.
>
> Clerk: That won't do you any good, sir. We all have the same rules.
>
>

Dave, that was priceless! <and true>

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Wednesday, 07(VII)/16(XVI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
If you think you've found it, keep looking.
-------------------------------------------

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:08:32 -0700, "Dimitri" >
wrote:

>Why? drive to your nearest amtrack stop - take the Empire Builder to
>Chicago then take the "Ciry of New Orleans" to New Orleans.

Let's do that in two hours. You are an idoit.

Gregory Morrow wrote:

[...]

> So that $200.00 r/t I paid would translate to what, about $600.00 ++ in
2008
> dollars? I can get a cheaper fare now, so I'll forego the peanuts and
> aluminum piano and cold seafood platters in coach to get the cheaper
price.


Following up to meself:

Per this inflation calculator:

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/


That $200.00 in 1980 would be about $570.00 now...


--
Best
Greg

On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:51:29 GMT, "James Silverton"
> wrote:

>Considerable clipping but I wonder how much you'd personally pay for
>those amenities?

The American public DEMANDED low fares. What did we get....Geryhound
bus at 35000 ft. Sometimes, we must be careful what we wish for.

Dimitri wrote:

>> I remember "the good old days" too. They weren't called airships for
>> nothing! I have a picture on the wall of my grandparents going
>> "somewhere", red carpet treatment and all.
>> http://i35.tinypic.com/2cr4w8k.jpg
>
> That is when people dressed to travel.
>
> Do you remember the Piano Bar on the Continental LA to Chicago DC 10's?
>
> That's when you could move around play cards and get a little hammered.
>
> The Proud Bird with the Golden Tail.
>

I love this website- Go look at the section of airline meals from days
gone by.... lounges with unlimited liquor! Food on real dishes! Menu
cards! Very nostalgic and kinda sad <sniff sniff>
http://www.airtimetable.com/airline_meals.htm