Well, shit
 

Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.

I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
little later than we thought.

(There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Michael "Dog3" wrote:
> Miche > dropped this news:micheinnz-
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
>> Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
>> been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
>> kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
>> garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
>> grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>
> <groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast
> in and a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed
> to pre-heat the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I
> do that.
>
>>
>> I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
>> little later than we thought.
>>
>> (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)
>
> Dinner sounds delish anyway.
>
> Michael

When I was a teen I didn't realize what the "preheat" setting in my then
boyfriends' mom's oven meant let's get it really, really, really hot! (Shut
up, Sheldon!) So we were going to broil some hamburgers. We put together
our pennies, a pound of ground beef was about 75 cents back then.
Hamburgers, yeah, surely we can do this. The broiler wasn't even turned on
at that point. The preheat setting had the oven to about 425F and I
honestly don't recall if I ever turned it off that setting. We wound up
with nice round burnt burgers within minutes.

Jill

Well, shit
 

Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>
> Miche > dropped this news:micheinnz-
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
> > Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
> > been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
> > kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
> > garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
> > grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>
> <groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast in and
> a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed to pre-heat
> the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I do that.
>
> >
> > I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
> > little later than we thought.
> >
> > (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)
>
> Dinner sounds delish anyway.
>
> Michael
>
> Send email to: michael at lonergan dot us dot com

One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice

Well, shit
 

On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
>
> > Miche > dropped this news:micheinnz-
> > : in rec.food.cooking
>
> > > Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
> > > been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
> > > kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
> > > garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
> > > grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>
> > <groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast in and
> > a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed to pre-heat
> > the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I do that.
>
> > > I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
> > > little later than we thought.
>
> > > (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)
>
> > Dinner sounds delish anyway.
>
> > Michael
>
> > Send email to: michael at lonergan dot us dot com
>
> One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
> pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
> oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
> disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.

The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
>
> Sky
>
--Bryan

Well, shit
 

Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>
> On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> >
> > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
> > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
> > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
> > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
>
> The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> >
> > Sky
> >
> --Bryan

Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice

Well, shit
 

In article >,
AtM says...
> Michael "Dog3" wrote:
> >
> > Miche > dropped this news:micheinnz-
> > : in rec.food.cooking
> >
> > > Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
> > > been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
> > > kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
> > > garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
> > > grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
> >
> > <groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast in and
> > a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed to pre-heat
> > the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I do that.
> >
> > >
> > > I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
> > > little later than we thought.
> > >
> > > (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)
> >
> > Dinner sounds delish anyway.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Send email to: michael at lonergan dot us dot com
>
> One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
> pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
> oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
> disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
>
> Sky
>
>

The funny thing here is that the oven is very effective at getting up to
temperature quickly.

Keyron hasn't yet realized that a timer is his friend. Usually I'll re-
heat pizza in the oven since doing so in the microwave makes it all
soggy.

I've found that heating the oven to 400F yields good results when the
pizza is placed on the rack for no more than 7 minutes, therefore a
timer is a necessity.

He has yet to learn that so he always ends up with charcoal.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
AtM says...
> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > >
> > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
> > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
> > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
> > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> >
> > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> > >
> > > Sky
> > >
> > --Bryan
>
> Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.
>
> Sky
>
> --
> Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
> Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice
>


So you just cycle the power mains off for about 30 seconds and then back
on.

Well, shit
 

In article 1>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:

> Miche > dropped this news:micheinnz-
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
> > Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
> > been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
> > kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
> > garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
> > grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>
> <groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast in and
> a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed to pre-heat
> the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I do that.
>
> >
> > I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
> > little later than we thought.
> >
> > (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)
>
> Dinner sounds delish anyway.

It was. I also cooked some fresh green beans to go with it. Had
originally planned do make some apple sauce as well, but never got
around to it.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Sky > wrote:

> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >
> > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > >
> > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
> > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
> > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
> > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> >
> > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> > >
> > > Sky
> > >
> > --Bryan
>
> Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.

Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Miche wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Sky > wrote:
>
> > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > >
> > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
> > > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
> > > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
> > > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> > >
> > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> > > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> > > >
> > > > Sky
> > > >
> > > --Bryan
> >
> > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> > oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> > circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.
>
> Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
> AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.
>
> Miche

;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to take
care of it (I think?!).

Sky

--
Ultra Ultimate Kitchen Rule - Use the Timer!
Ultimate Kitchen Rule -- Cook's Choice

Well, shit
 

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:11:03 +1300, Miche >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Sky > wrote:
>
>> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>> >
>> > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in the
>> > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned the
>> > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
>> > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to
>> > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
>> > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
>> >
>> > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
>> > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
>> > >
>> > > Sky
>> > >
>> > --Bryan
>>
>> Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
>> oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
>> circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.
>
>Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
>AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.
>
>Miche

Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
rather silly. We don't have 230v. That's just used for specs. And
we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
an installation you've not seen.

Lou

Well, shit
 

Miche wrote:
>
> Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
> been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
> kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
> garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
> grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>
> I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
> little later than we thought.
>
> (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)

Last summer we had a friend visiting from Texas and I was planning on doing
a chicken on the BBQ rotisserie. this was one of my favourite recipes for
the rotisserie. Puree and onion and some garlic, add salt, pepper and cumin
and slather it on the chicken about an hour before cooking, and then baste
it with melted butter. It takes about an hour and a half. About 10 minutes
into the cooking time I ran out of propane. The worst part was that my
spare tank was empty too. The only thing worse than running out of propane
is to have to fill two tanks. I had sworn that would never happen to me
again... and it did
:-(

Never again. Now when I run out I hook up the spare and put the empty tank
in the car so I have to fill it.

Well, shit
 

On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:08:34 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Miche wrote:
>>
>> Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
>> been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
>> kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
>> garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
>> grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>>
>> I've changed the oven setting now. Dinner will still be good, just a
>> little later than we thought.
>>
>> (There will also be green beans and apple sauce.)
>
>Last summer we had a friend visiting from Texas and I was planning on doing
>a chicken on the BBQ rotisserie. this was one of my favourite recipes for
>the rotisserie. Puree and onion and some garlic, add salt, pepper and cumin
>and slather it on the chicken about an hour before cooking, and then baste
>it with melted butter. It takes about an hour and a half. About 10 minutes
>into the cooking time I ran out of propane. The worst part was that my
>spare tank was empty too. The only thing worse than running out of propane
>is to have to fill two tanks. I had sworn that would never happen to me
>again... and it did
>:-(
>
>Never again. Now when I run out I hook up the spare and put the empty tank
>in the car so I have to fill it.

Sorry to do the grill on a wood deck thing again but:

From Here.

http://www.owensoundfireems.com/prev.../bbqsafety.htm

* Store propane tanks standing upright in a well-ventilated area
outside or in a well-ventilated shed. A leaking tank creates a
potential fire hazard. Never store a propane tank in the house. An
explosion can be easily set off by a spark of static electricity, the
flip of a light switch or a pilot light.
* NEVER smoke near a propane tank.
* Make sure the tank is stored out of the reach of children.
* Do not refill a tank that is leaking, is corroded or has any
other signs of damage. Ask your propane distributor to inspect the
tank for signs of deterioration before it is refilled.
* Replace propane tanks every 10 years.
* When transporting a propane tank, make sure it remains in an
upright position. Milk cartons work well for this as they are just the
right size to hug the tank securely. The best place for the tank to
travel is in the trunk of the car; secure the trunk lid so it remains
slightly open for ventilation. The tank can also be placed on the rear
floor of the passenger side of the car; leave the rear windows open
for ventilation.
* When transporting a tank, use a plastic plug in the gas outlet
for greater safety.
* Have the tank filled only by qualified personnel.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Lou Decruss > wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:11:03 +1300, Miche >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Sky > wrote:
> >
> >> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in
> >> > > the
> >> > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned
> >> > > the
> >> > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> >> > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven
> >> > > to
> >> > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> >> > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> >> >
> >> > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> >> > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> >> > >
> >> > > Sky
> >> > >
> >> > --Bryan
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> >> oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> >> circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.
> >
> >Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
> >AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.
> >
> >Miche
>
> Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
> rather silly. We don't have 230v.

I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".

> That's just used for specs. And
> we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
> spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
> to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
> and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
> unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
> training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
> an installation you've not seen.

I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Sky > wrote:

> Miche wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Sky > wrote:
> >
> > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in
> > > > > the
> > > > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned
> > > > > the
> > > > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > > > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven
> > > > > to
> > > > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > > > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> > > >
> > > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> > > > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sky
> > > > >
> > > > --Bryan
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> > > oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> > > circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.
> >
> > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
> > AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.
> >
> > Miche
>
> ;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to take
> care of it (I think?!).

Always the best move, if you're not sure.

And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. ;)

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Miche > wrote:

> In article >,
> Lou Decruss > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 12:11:03 +1300, Miche >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article >,
> > > Sky > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > >> > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > >> > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> > >> >
> > >> > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled the
> > >> > plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to work).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sky
> > >> > >
> > >> > --Bryan
> > >>
> > >> Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> > >> oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off the
> > >> circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at that time.
> > >
> > >Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
> > >AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.
> > >
> > >Miche
> >
> > Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
> > rather silly. We don't have 230v.
>
> I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".
>
> > That's just used for specs. And
> > we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
> > spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
> > to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
> > and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
> > unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
> > training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
> > an installation you've not seen.
>
> I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.

And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Oh pshaw, on Sat 10 Nov 2007 10:26:24p, Miche meant to say...

> In article >,
> Sky > wrote:
>
>> Miche wrote:
>> >
>> > In article >,
>> > Sky > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin
>> > > > > roast in the pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad
>> > > > > accidentally turned the oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The
>> > > > > oven then locked itself with the roast in the oven (big time
>> > > > > ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to disengage the
>> > > > > 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I forget
>> > > > > how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
>> > > >
>> > > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled
>> > > > the plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to
>> > > > work).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Sky
>> > > > >
>> > > > --Bryan
>> > >
>> > > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
>> > > oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off
>> > > the circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at
>> > > that time.
>> >
>> > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the
>> > 230V AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit
>> > bigger.
>> >
>> > Miche
>>
>> ;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
>> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
>> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to
>> take care of it (I think?!).
>
> Always the best move, if you're not sure.
>
> And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
> silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. ;)
>
> Miche
>

Miche, the following is typical for the US...

Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like the
clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
depending on the appliance.

Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps. Wall
outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20 amps.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.

Well, shit
 

In article 4>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Sat 10 Nov 2007 10:26:24p, Miche meant to say...
>
> > In article >,
> > Sky > wrote:
> >
> >> Miche wrote:
> >> >
> >> > In article >,
> >> > Sky > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin
> >> > > > > roast in the pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad
> >> > > > > accidentally turned the oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The
> >> > > > > oven then locked itself with the roast in the oven (big time
> >> > > > > ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to disengage the
> >> > > > > 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I forget
> >> > > > > how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled
> >> > > > the plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to
> >> > > > work).
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Sky
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > --Bryan
> >> > >
> >> > > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> >> > > oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off
> >> > > the circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at
> >> > > that time.
> >> >
> >> > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the
> >> > 230V AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit
> >> > bigger.
> >> >
> >> > Miche
> >>
> >> ;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
> >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> >> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to
> >> take care of it (I think?!).
> >
> > Always the best move, if you're not sure.
> >
> > And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
> > silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. ;)
> >
>
> Miche, the following is typical for the US...
>
> Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
> electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
> electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
> these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like the
> clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
> depending on the appliance.
>
> Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
> equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
> current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps. Wall
> outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20 amps.

So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.

Oh, and for those listening at home, I do not advocate doing anything
with an untested installation, especially if it's unlabelled. If in
doubt, call a registered electrician.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 12:24:22a, Miche meant to say...

> In article 4>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Oh pshaw, on Sat 10 Nov 2007 10:26:24p, Miche meant to say...
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > Sky > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Miche wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > Sky > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin
>> >> > > > > roast in the pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad
>> >> > > > > accidentally turned the oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!).
>> >> > > > > The oven then locked itself with the roast in the oven (big
>> >> > > > > time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to disengage
>> >> > > > > the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
>> >> > > > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I
>> >> > > > > remember.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd
>> >> > > > pulled the plug on the range (at least the way that my
>> >> > > > mother's used to work).
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > > Sky
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > --Bryan
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an
>> >> > > in-the-wall oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box
>> >> > > and turned off the circuit, but I don't think my dad had the
>> >> > > circuits labeled at that time.
>> >> >
>> >> > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the
>> >> > 230V AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit
>> >> > bigger.
>> >> >
>> >> > Miche
>> >>
>> >> ;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps
>> >> my dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details.
>> >> Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him
>> >> how to take care of it (I think?!).
>> >
>> > Always the best move, if you're not sure.
>> >
>> > And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with
>> > your silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. ;)
>> >
>>
>> Miche, the following is typical for the US...
>>
>> Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
>> electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
>> electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
>> these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like
>> the clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
>> depending on the appliance.
>>
>> Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
>> equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
>> current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps.
>> Wall outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20
>> amps.
>
> So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
> the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the
> update.

Actually, Miche, there are other voltages used in the US as well; e.g.,
208, 277, and 480, but these are used mostly in commercial applications.
There are other variables as well, such as cycles (50, 60), and phases
(single phase, 3-phase, etc.).

> Oh, and for those listening at home, I do not advocate doing anything
> with an untested installation, especially if it's unlabelled. If in
> doubt, call a registered electrician.
>
> Miche
>



--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.

Well, shit
 

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:27:40 +1300, Miche >
wrote:

>> > Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
>> > rather silly. We don't have 230v.
>>
>> I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".
>>
>> > That's just used for specs. And
>> > we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
>> > spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
>> > to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
>> > and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
>> > unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
>> > training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
>> > an installation you've not seen.
>>
>> I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.
>
>And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
>now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.

I know that. What I wrote was about older systems. Look above and
you'll see the word older.

Lou

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 12:24:22a, Miche meant to say...
>
> > In article 4>,
> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >> Miche, the following is typical for the US...
> >>
> >> Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
> >> electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
> >> electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
> >> these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like
> >> the clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
> >> depending on the appliance.
> >>
> >> Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
> >> equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
> >> current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps.
> >> Wall outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20
> >> amps.
> >
> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
> > the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the
> > update.
>
> Actually, Miche, there are other voltages used in the US as well; e.g.,
> 208, 277, and 480, but these are used mostly in commercial applications.
> There are other variables as well, such as cycles (50, 60), and phases
> (single phase, 3-phase, etc.).

In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
course), all at 50Hz.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Lou Decruss > wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:27:40 +1300, Miche >
> wrote:
>
> >> > Giving electrical advice to someone on the other side of the earth is
> >> > rather silly. We don't have 230v.
> >>
> >> I did note the "230v AC system _we run in NZ_".
> >>
> >> > That's just used for specs. And
> >> > we don't have any 32A breakers. Without knowing if there is a pool,
> >> > spa, sauna, welder, electric heat etc. you're giving enough knowledge
> >> > to cause trouble. Older electric ranges and ovens ranged between 30
> >> > and 60 amps. Dryers were between 40-60 amps. So guessing in an
> >> > unmarked panel is a crapshoot. I do remember you said you were
> >> > training to be an electrician. Please be careful giving advice out on
> >> > an installation you've not seen.
> >>
> >> I wasn't being entirely serious. I shoulda tagged it "sarcasm", I guess.
> >
> >And also? The system Sky was describing isn't one she has access to
> >now, but one she described as being around when she was a child.
>
> I know that. What I wrote was about older systems. Look above and
> you'll see the word older.

Fair enough. Did you see where I was talking about NZ systems?

Miche (let's call this quits, shall we?)

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article 1>,
"Michael \"Dog3\"" > wrote:

> Miche > dropped this news:micheinnz-
> : in rec.food.cooking
>
> > Put a nice piece of pork shoulder in the oven to roast. After it had
> > been in there a bit, prepared some veges to go with it (potatoes,
> > kumara/sweet potatoes, parsnip, carrots, beet(root), (Pacific) yams,
> > garlic), went to put them in... and discovered the oven was on
> > grill/broil and the meat was barely warm.
>
> <groan> Been there done it. Worse yet is the time I threw the roast in and
> a couple of hours later discovered that I had not only failed to pre-heat
> the oven, I failed to heat it at all. I hate it when I do that.

> Michael

You dipstick!. Didn't you notice when you opened the oven door that
there was no warm, if not hot, air coming out? LOL!

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Notes about our meals in Tuscany have been posted to
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com; 10-16-2007

Well, shit
 

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche >
wrote:

>
>In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
>course), all at 50Hz.

How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?

<running>

--
See return address to reply by email
remove the smiley face first

Well, shit
 

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> Sky > wrote:
>
> > Miche wrote:
> > >
> > > In article >,
> > > Sky > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin roast in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad accidentally turned
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The oven then locked itself with the
> > > > > > roast in the oven (big time ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > disengage the 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I
> > > > > > forget how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
says...
> In article 4>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> > Oh pshaw, on Sat 10 Nov 2007 10:26:24p, Miche meant to say...
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > Sky > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Miche wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > In article >,
> > >> > Sky > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Bobo Bonobo® wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, Sky > wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > One time years ago, I or my dad put a whole beef tenderloin
> > >> > > > > roast in the pre-heated oven, and somehow either I or my dad
> > >> > > > > accidentally turned the oven dial to "clean" (ruhroh!). The
> > >> > > > > oven then locked itself with the roast in the oven (big time
> > >> > > > > ruhroh!). We tried to turn off the oven to disengage the
> > >> > > > > 'clean' option. Because this happened so long ago, I forget
> > >> > > > > how the roast turned out, but it was edible as I remember.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > The only way that it could have turned out OK was if you'd pulled
> > >> > > > the plug on the range (at least the way that my mother's used to
> > >> > > > work).
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Sky
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > --Bryan
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Unfortunately, that wasn't an option because it was an in-the-wall
> > >> > > oven. Perhaps we could've gone to the breaker box and turned off
> > >> > > the circuit, but I don't think my dad had the circuits labeled at
> > >> > > that time.
> > >> >
> > >> > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the
> > >> > 230V AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit
> > >> > bigger.
> > >> >
> > >> > Miche
> > >>
> > >> ;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
> > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> > >> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to
> > >> take care of it (I think?!).
> > >
> > > Always the best move, if you're not sure.
> > >
> > > And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
> > > silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. ;)
> > >
> >
> > Miche, the following is typical for the US...
> >
> > Major appliances like electric ranges, built-in cooktops and ovens,
> > electric clothes dryers, central air conditioners, electric furnaces,
> > electrically heated spas, etc., all use 220-230 volt current. Most of
> > these items are hard-wired, although some have a cord and plug, like the
> > clothes dryers and electric ranges. Amperage varies considerably,
> > depending on the appliance.
> >
> > Most countertop appliances, TVs, audio equipment, lighting, computer
> > equipment, hair dryers, and other small appliances use 110-120 volt
> > current. General purpose wall outlets are usually rated at 15 amps. Wall
> > outlets in kitchens, workshops, etc., are usually rated at 20 amps.
>
> So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
> the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.
>
> Oh, and for those listening at home, I do not advocate doing anything
> with an untested installation, especially if it's unlabelled. If in
> doubt, call a registered electrician.
>
> Miche
>
>

Most power delivered to homes is 2 phase. To get that 240V circuit we
just bond two phases to the device.

The beauty of using phased power is that the total current per leg is
reduced.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Miche > wrote:


> > > Easy, Sky, it's the biggest breaker apart from the mains. In the 230V
> > > AC system we run in NZ, it's usually 32A or maybe even a bit bigger.
> > >
> > > Miche
> >
> > ;) Miche. I don't think we thought about it at the time, or perhaps my
> > dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> > was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to take
> > care of it (I think?!).
>
> Always the best move, if you're not sure.
>
> And I have no idea what amperage you use for things over there with your
> silly little "throws like a girl" 110V systems. ;)

In almost all cases in the US, the feed is 220 volts. Electric stoves,
electric clothes dryers and electric furnaces run at 220. Everything
else runs at 110.

Since I have a gas stove, a gas dryer and a gas furnace, I have nothing
that runs at 220. Still, that's my feed. Half of my outlets run on one
half, the other half run on the other half.

Calculating amperage is simple. Watts are simply amps times voltage.
If I need 4400 watts for a stove, I need 40 amps at 110, or 20 amps at
220.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
Miche > wrote:


> > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> > >> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to

> So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
> the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.

Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
electric dryer.

Well, shit
 

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:54:47 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:

>> So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
>> the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the
>> update.
>
>Actually, Miche, there are other voltages used in the US as well; e.g.,
>208, 277, and 480, but these are used mostly in commercial applications.
>There are other variables as well, such as cycles (50, 60), and phases
>(single phase, 3-phase, etc.).

There's a ******* 177 that gets snuck in there too. It, along with
277 have a habit of jumping more for some reason and hurt a LOT if you
get in the way. <g>

Lou

Well, shit
 

In article
>,
Dan Abel > wrote:

> In article >,
> Miche > wrote:
>
>
> > > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual details. Dad
> > > >> was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it up to him how to
>
> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was under
> > the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for the update.
>
> Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
> two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
> outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
> service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
> got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
> five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
> electric dryer.

That's really interesting. All installations here have a main switch.
Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V (400 between
phases if there's more than one phase which there usually isn't -- if
there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this is for domestic supply
-- commercial supply can be much, much gruntier by way of amperage, but
still at 400V line voltage for three-phase.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article >, sf wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
> >course), all at 50Hz.
>
> How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?
>
> <running>

Let's not go there. Since the "national grid" was deregulated, power
prices have gone through the roof.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 10:48:02p, Miche meant to say...

> In article
> >,
> Dan Abel > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Miche > wrote:
>>
>>
>> > > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual
>> > > >> details. Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it
>> > > >> up to him how to
>>
>> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was
>> > under the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for
>> > the update.
>>
>> Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
>> two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
>> outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
>> service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
>> got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
>> five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
>> electric dryer.
>
> That's really interesting. All installations here have a main switch.
> Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V (400 between
> phases if there's more than one phase which there usually isn't -- if
> there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this is for domestic supply
> -- commercial supply can be much, much gruntier by way of amperage, but
> still at 400V line voltage for three-phase.
>
> Miche
>

We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts, and each
with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we have greater power
demands than homes that use gas for heating, cooking, and heating water in
lieu of electric. We could probably get by with one 200 amp panel, but I
like the idea of being able to expand without involving major power
changes. If we put in a pool and/or backyard spa, we will definitely use
some of that additional capacity.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
says...
> In article >, sf wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
> > >course), all at 50Hz.
> >
> > How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?
> >
> > <running>
>
> Let's not go there. Since the "national grid" was deregulated, power
> prices have gone through the roof.
>
> Miche
>
>

Oh, please don't tell me you suffer the National Grid curse. We here in
RI and MA have suffered under them for the past few years. It was bad
enough when the legislators in RI decided that deregulation would be a
good thing for the consumer. Yeah, that's how my per kWh cost jumped
from 9 cents to 14 cents.

Well, shit
 

In article >,
T > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > In article >, sf wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:29:44 +1300, Miche >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >In NZ we use single-phase at 230V and three-phase at 400V (both AC, of
> > > >course), all at 50Hz.
> > >
> > > How boring. Where's the fun? Where's the profit?
> > >
> > > <running>
> >
> > Let's not go there. Since the "national grid" was deregulated, power
> > prices have gone through the roof.
>
> Oh, please don't tell me you suffer the National Grid curse. We here in
> RI and MA have suffered under them for the past few years. It was bad
> enough when the legislators in RI decided that deregulation would be a
> good thing for the consumer. Yeah, that's how my per kWh cost jumped
> from 9 cents to 14 cents.

National Grid's not an organisation; it's a description for the
distribution network from the generation facilities throughout the
country.

But yeah, we don't really have one any more -- the supply was broken up
into "generation companies", "line companies" and "supply companies",
all of whom take their cut.

And my city council was forced to sell its own little power station to a
"generation company", even though they were able to sell the power on to
consumers themselves for a very low cost and still make a profit.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 10:48:02p, Miche meant to say...
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > Dan Abel > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> Miche > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual
> >> > > >> details. Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left it
> >> > > >> up to him how to
> >>
> >> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was
> >> > under the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks for
> >> > the update.
> >>
> >> Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the outer
> >> two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one of the
> >> outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A (at 220)
> >> service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at 220). I also
> >> got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main switch (the "rule of
> >> five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a 220 breaker for the
> >> electric dryer.
> >
> > That's really interesting. All installations here have a main switch.
> > Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V (400 between
> > phases if there's more than one phase which there usually isn't -- if
> > there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this is for domestic supply
> > -- commercial supply can be much, much gruntier by way of amperage, but
> > still at 400V line voltage for three-phase.
>
> We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts, and each
> with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we have greater power
> demands than homes that use gas for heating, cooking, and heating water in
> lieu of electric. We could probably get by with one 200 amp panel, but I
> like the idea of being able to expand without involving major power
> changes. If we put in a pool and/or backyard spa, we will definitely use
> some of that additional capacity.

That's good thinking. :) And you don't have to turn the second phase on
until you need it.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 11:47:33p, Miche meant to say...

> In article 0>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 10:48:02p, Miche meant to say...
>>
>> > In article
>> > >,
>> > Dan Abel > wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article >,
>> >> Miche > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual
>> >> > > >> details. Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left
>> >> > > >> it up to him how to
>> >>
>> >> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was
>> >> > under the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks
>> >> > for the update.
>> >>
>> >> Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the
>> >> outer two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one
>> >> of the outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A
>> >> (at 220) service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at
>> >> 220). I also got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main
>> >> switch (the "rule of five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a
>> >> 220 breaker for the electric dryer.
>> >
>> > That's really interesting. All installations here have a main
>> > switch. Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V
>> > (400 between phases if there's more than one phase which there
>> > usually isn't -- if there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this
>> > is for domestic supply -- commercial supply can be much, much
>> > gruntier by way of amperage, but still at 400V line voltage for
>> > three-phase.
>>
>> We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts, and
>> each with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we have
>> greater power demands than homes that use gas for heating, cooking, and
>> heating water in lieu of electric. We could probably get by with one
>> 200 amp panel, but I like the idea of being able to expand without
>> involving major power changes. If we put in a pool and/or backyard
>> spa, we will definitely use some of that additional capacity.
>
> That's good thinking. :) And you don't have to turn the second phase on
> until you need it.
>
> Miche
>

True, but the major decision was based on original installation cost vs.
later addition. To add it later could run $3-5K, but incorporating it into
the original construction cost only an addition $500.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.

Well, shit
 

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 11:47:33p, Miche meant to say...
>
> > In article 0>,
> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >
> >> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 10:48:02p, Miche meant to say...
> >>
> >> > In article
> >> > >,
> >> > Dan Abel > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In article >,
> >> >> Miche > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual
> >> >> > > >> details. Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I left
> >> >> > > >> it up to him how to
> >> >>
> >> >> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I was
> >> >> > under the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC. Thanks
> >> >> > for the update.
> >> >>
> >> >> Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the
> >> >> outer two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and one
> >> >> of the outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have 200A
> >> >> (at 220) service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got 100A (at
> >> >> 220). I also got the el cheapo breaker box. There is no main
> >> >> switch (the "rule of five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at 110) and a
> >> >> 220 breaker for the electric dryer.
> >> >
> >> > That's really interesting. All installations here have a main
> >> > switch. Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V
> >> > (400 between phases if there's more than one phase which there
> >> > usually isn't -- if there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that this
> >> > is for domestic supply -- commercial supply can be much, much
> >> > gruntier by way of amperage, but still at 400V line voltage for
> >> > three-phase.
> >>
> >> We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts, and
> >> each with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we have
> >> greater power demands than homes that use gas for heating, cooking, and
> >> heating water in lieu of electric. We could probably get by with one
> >> 200 amp panel, but I like the idea of being able to expand without
> >> involving major power changes. If we put in a pool and/or backyard
> >> spa, we will definitely use some of that additional capacity.
> >
> > That's good thinking. :) And you don't have to turn the second phase on
> > until you need it.
>
> True, but the major decision was based on original installation cost vs.
> later addition. To add it later could run $3-5K, but incorporating it into
> the original construction cost only an addition $500.

Even better thinking. How's your insulation? A bit of thought put into
that (and a bit of up-front cost) can save you a fortune later.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Oh pshaw, on Mon 12 Nov 2007 01:44:57a, Miche meant to say...

> In article 0>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 11:47:33p, Miche meant to say...
>>
>> > In article 0>,
>> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 10:48:02p, Miche meant to say...
>> >>
>> >> > In article
>> >> > >,
>> >> > Dan Abel > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> In article >,
>> >> >> Miche > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > > >> dad did. It was a long time ago, so I forget the actual
>> >> >> > > >> details. Dad was/is a "double-E" (retired now) <g> so I
>> >> >> > > >> left it up to him how to
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > So you actually have a hybrid system, then? Interesting! I
>> >> >> > was under the (mistaken) impression that it was all 110VAC.
>> >> >> > Thanks for the update.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Most houses in the US have three wires coming in. Hook up to the
>> >> >> outer two wires and you have 220. Hook up to the inner wire and
>> >> >> one of the outer wires and you have 110. Most newer houses have
>> >> >> 200A (at 220) service. I got the el cheapo house, so I've got
>> >> >> 100A (at 220). I also got the el cheapo breaker box. There is
>> >> >> no main switch (the "rule of five") and five breakers, 4 20s (at
>> >> >> 110) and a 220 breaker for the electric dryer.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's really interesting. All installations here have a main
>> >> > switch. Most houses here get supply at 60A, but it's all at 230V
>> >> > (400 between phases if there's more than one phase which there
>> >> > usually isn't -- if there is, each phase is at 60A). Note that
>> >> > this is for domestic supply -- commercial supply can be much, much
>> >> > gruntier by way of amperage, but still at 400V line voltage for
>> >> > three-phase.
>> >>
>> >> We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts,
>> >> and each with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we
>> >> have greater power demands than homes that use gas for heating,
>> >> cooking, and heating water in lieu of electric. We could probably
>> >> get by with one 200 amp panel, but I like the idea of being able to
>> >> expand without involving major power changes. If we put in a pool
>> >> and/or backyard spa, we will definitely use some of that additional
>> >> capacity.
>> >
>> > That's good thinking. :) And you don't have to turn the second phase
>> > on until you need it.
>>
>> True, but the major decision was based on original installation cost
>> vs. later addition. To add it later could run $3-5K, but incorporating
>> it into the original construction cost only an addition $500.
>
> Even better thinking. How's your insulation? A bit of thought put into
> that (and a bit of up-front cost) can save you a fortune later.
>
> Miche
>

We have 2" x 6" wall construction and the insulation rating in the walls is
R-50 (don't know if that means a thing outside of the US). We don't have
an attic (all vaulted ceilings), and the construction and insulation is the
same. We do have a crawl space under the house, and the floors are
insulated underneath at an R-30 rating.

Since we live in the desert, winter temsps are not much of an issue, but
our summer temps can reach near 120 degrees F.

--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.

Well, shit
 

In article 0>,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> Oh pshaw, on Mon 12 Nov 2007 01:44:57a, Miche meant to say...
>
> > In article 0>,
> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >
> >> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 11:47:33p, Miche meant to say...
> >>
> >> > In article 0>,
> >> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> >> >> We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220 volts,
> >> >> and each with a master breaker. It's an all electric home, so we
> >> >> have greater power demands than homes that use gas for heating,
> >> >> cooking, and heating water in lieu of electric. We could probably
> >> >> get by with one 200 amp panel, but I like the idea of being able to
> >> >> expand without involving major power changes. If we put in a pool
> >> >> and/or backyard spa, we will definitely use some of that additional
> >> >> capacity.
> >> >
> >> > That's good thinking. :) And you don't have to turn the second phase
> >> > on until you need it.
> >>
> >> True, but the major decision was based on original installation cost
> >> vs. later addition. To add it later could run $3-5K, but incorporating
> >> it into the original construction cost only an addition $500.
> >
> > Even better thinking. How's your insulation? A bit of thought put into
> > that (and a bit of up-front cost) can save you a fortune later.
>
> We have 2" x 6" wall construction and the insulation rating in the walls is
> R-50 (don't know if that means a thing outside of the US).

It doesn't. :)

> We don't have
> an attic (all vaulted ceilings), and the construction and insulation is the
> same. We do have a crawl space under the house, and the floors are
> insulated underneath at an R-30 rating.
>
> Since we live in the desert, winter temsps are not much of an issue, but
> our summer temps can reach near 120 degrees F.

True enough, but insulation can also help keep the interior cool, thus
reducing the need for air conditioning, which in turn reduces power
needs.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

Well, shit
 

Oh pshaw, on Mon 12 Nov 2007 11:26:29a, Miche meant to say...

> In article 0>,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> Oh pshaw, on Mon 12 Nov 2007 01:44:57a, Miche meant to say...
>>
>> > In article 0>,
>> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Oh pshaw, on Sun 11 Nov 2007 11:47:33p, Miche meant to say...
>> >>
>> >> > In article 0>,
>> >> > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>> >> >> We have a new home that has two 200 amp panels, both at 220
>> >> >> volts, and each with a master breaker. It's an all electric
>> >> >> home, so we have greater power demands than homes that use gas
>> >> >> for heating, cooking, and heating water in lieu of electric. We
>> >> >> could probably get by with one 200 amp panel, but I like the idea
>> >> >> of being able to expand without involving major power changes.
>> >> >> If we put in a pool and/or backyard spa, we will definitely use
>> >> >> some of that additional capacity.
>> >> >
>> >> > That's good thinking. :) And you don't have to turn the second
>> >> > phase on until you need it.
>> >>
>> >> True, but the major decision was based on original installation cost
>> >> vs. later addition. To add it later could run $3-5K, but
>> >> incorporating it into the original construction cost only an
>> >> addition $500.
>> >
>> > Even better thinking. How's your insulation? A bit of thought put
>> > into that (and a bit of up-front cost) can save you a fortune later.
>>
>> We have 2" x 6" wall construction and the insulation rating in the
>> walls is R-50 (don't know if that means a thing outside of the US).
>
> It doesn't. :)

"R" ratings for insulation indicate the insulationi material's efficiency.
What we have in our house is insulation at peak efficiency. Friends of
ours have an older and smaller home and less insulation, and pay nearly
twice what we do for summer cooling.;

>> We don't have
>> an attic (all vaulted ceilings), and the construction and insulation is
>> the same. We do have a crawl space under the house, and the floors are
>> insulated underneath at an R-30 rating.
>>
>> Since we live in the desert, winter temsps are not much of an issue,
>> but our summer temps can reach near 120 degrees F.
>
> True enough, but insulation can also help keep the interior cool, thus
> reducing the need for air conditioning, which in turn reduces power
> needs.

Yes, where we live insulation is really more important for the summer
cooling than the winter heating. Where we move from in Ohio, it was just
the opposite.

> Miche
>



--
Wayne Boatwright

(to e-mail me direct, replace cox dot net with gmail dot com)
__________________________________________________ ____________

OK, I'm weird ! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.