My stove and oven seem to need replacement. I think that they can be
repaired, but they are getting on and the time between repairs is
getting shorter - time to consider splashing out!

I have quite a few questions and would love any opinions. I'll list
them:

- Are there any real lemons that I should avoid?

- I tried a convection oven a couple of decades ago and it was utterly
useless. I see that they are still flogging them, so maybe the
technology has improved. Is it worth bothering?

- I have a pretty standard (I think) 60cm x 60cm oven to replace. I'd
like the cheapest, but best ( of course ), and most reliable oven/
grill combination. I'd like to be able to make pizza's and have good
support for long, slow casseroling. Any makes or models stand out
particularly?

- I'll probably go for a standard four ring stove top. However, I like
the idea of induction hobs. I also like ceramic hobs. Has any
manufacturer been sensible enough to produce a hybrid with a couple of
conventional ceramic hob plates (for glass, aluminum etc.) and a
couple of induction plates for cast iron and so forth? If so, who has
done this?

- If I did decide to go for a full induction hob, what is the solution
to pressure cooking? Pretty well all the pressure cookers that I've
seen are made of aluminium. Are there any made from materials that
work in induction plates?

Peter Brooks wrote:

>
> - Are there any real lemons that I should avoid?
>
Not that I am aware of but: my mother has an oven made by Stoves, my
mother-in-law one made by De Dietrich and I have one made by Bosch:

Observations: I can remove both doors from the Bosch oven and, AFAIK,
so can M-I-L. My mother cannot remove the doors from the Stoves unit -
a pain when it comes to cleaning them. The De Dietrich has an 'at
temperature' alarm which would be great if the clock etc worked - it has
never worked and M-I-L has given up attempting to have it repaired -
she has had two or three clock modules. The De Dietrich also has a
self-clean function which caused the door glass to shatter on it's first
use. The repairman advised her not to use the self clean function! We
would have bought a NEFF oven had we not been given the Bosch unit. We
found getting spare racks etc from Bosch reaaly easy. That's about it
for ovens.


We have a NEFF 5 burner gas hob which we bough in preference to an
induction hob because (a) I'm inclined to crash the pans about and
feared that I would break the glass induction hob surface and (b)
because it is the same model as a friend who is a professional chef
uses. However, it has burners which only produce flame around the
perimeter of the burner - OK on the small burners but not good on the
biggest burners - no flame in the centre of big pots.

Mother was persauded to have a a gas hob, by NEFF IIRC, which did not
have infinite gas control and, having cooked on electricity all her
married life quickly replaced it with a conventional electric hob, by
Whirlpool IIRC.


>
> - I'll probably go for a standard four ring stove top. However, I
> like the idea of induction hobs.


I also like ceramic hobs. Has any
> manufacturer been sensible enough to produce a hybrid with a couple
> of conventional ceramic hob plates (for glass, aluminum etc.) and a
> couple of induction plates for cast iron and so forth? If so, who has
> done this?
>

NEFF used to have a range called 'Domino' which enabled you to mix and
match - gas, electric, griddles, BBQ things - electrically heated rocks,
WOK burners etc. M-I-L had a pair of twin electric units and a deep fat
fryer. This was replaced with a De Dietrich haolgen hob. Nightmare
thing with a touch control panel that regularly stops working 'cos it
becomes too hot - on account of being close to the hob apparently!!!!

NEFF or De Dietrich make free satnding induction hobs - as seen in my
chef friend's kitchen.

Given another go at it I would go down the Domino route (cash permitting!)



HTH

Richard

On Sep 9, 9:26 pm, Peter Brooks > wrote:
> My stove and oven seem to need replacement. I think that they can be
> repaired, but they are getting on and the time between repairs is
> getting shorter - time to consider splashing out!
>
> I have quite a few questions and would love any opinions. I'll list
> them:
>
> - Are there any real lemons that I should avoid?
>
> - I tried a convection oven a couple of decades ago and it was utterly
> useless. I see that they are still flogging them, so maybe the
> technology has improved. Is it worth bothering?
>
> - I have a pretty standard (I think) 60cm x 60cm oven to replace. I'd
> like the cheapest, but best ( of course ), and most reliable oven/
> grill combination. I'd like to be able to make pizza's and have good
> support for long, slow casseroling. Any makes or models stand out
> particularly?
>
> - I'll probably go for a standard four ring stove top. However, I like
> the idea of induction hobs. I also like ceramic hobs. Has any
> manufacturer been sensible enough to produce a hybrid with a couple of
> conventional ceramic hob plates (for glass, aluminum etc.) and a
> couple of induction plates for cast iron and so forth? If so, who has
> done this?
>
> - If I did decide to go for a full induction hob, what is the solution
> to pressure cooking? Pretty well all the pressure cookers that I've
> seen are made of aluminium. Are there any made from materials that
> work in induction plates?

Over 2 years ago, I reluctantly became a sceptical user of an
induction cooker, having been an advocate of a combi of gas and
electric hobs before.

Today, I am an enthusiastic supporter of induction cookers, and don't
ever wish to revert to gas or old style electric hobs.

As long as the induction cooker has safety cut-off built, plus timer
and wide ranged heat controls, making sure all one's cooking utensils
are induction cooking friendly, is a minor inconvenience, and only an
initial one at the start-up.

As for ovens, turbo fan ovens are a must for me and give more
universal temperatures throughout the oven, and quicker cooking times
into the bargain.. Do though, check that the oven is well insulated in
order to save on heat loss .

>
> As for ovens, turbo fan ovens are a must for me and give more
> universal temperatures throughout the oven, and quicker cooking times
> into the bargain..

Should have mentioned that in my reply. And also that my chef uses the
NEFF hob at home not for work!


Richard

On Sep 9, 3:59 pm, Richard > wrote:
>
>
> Given another go at it I would go down the Domino route (cash permitting!)
>
Thank you - I'll investigate that.

I meant to ask another question. All the single ovens I've seen so far
have top opening doors. The eye-level ovens have doors that open on
the right. I'd like an oven with a door that has a hinge on the right
and opens on the left - it fits the space better, there isn't a spring
to go wrong and it works better for me as a left-hander. Has anybody
seen any that do this?

Richard wrote on Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:59:30 +0100:

??>> - Are there any real lemons that I should avoid?
??>>
R> Not that I am aware of but: my mother has an oven made by
R> Stoves, my mother-in-law one made by De Dietrich and I have
R> one made by Bosch:

R> Mother was persauded to have a a gas hob, by NEFF IIRC,
R> which did not have infinite gas control and, having cooked
R> on electricity all her married life quickly replaced it with
R> a conventional electric hob, by Whirlpool IIRC.

??>> - I'll probably go for a standard four ring stove top.
??>> However, I like the idea of induction hobs.

R> I also like ceramic hobs. Has any
??>> manufacturer been sensible enough to produce a hybrid with
??>> a couple of conventional ceramic hob plates (for glass,
??>> aluminum etc.) and a couple of induction plates for cast
??>> iron and so forth? If so, who has done this?
??>>
R> NEFF used to have a range called 'Domino' which enabled you
R> to mix and match - gas, electric, griddles, BBQ things -
R> electrically heated rocks, WOK burners etc. M-I-L had a pair
R> of twin electric units and a deep fat fryer. This was
R> replaced with a De Dietrich haolgen hob. Nightmare thing
R> with a touch control panel that regularly stops working 'cos
R> it becomes too hot - on account of being close to the hob
R> apparently!!!!

Just to set me straight, is "hob" a generic term word for the
cooking surfaces of a stove in UK speak? Does it also refer to
these things when they are cook-tops separate from the oven(s)?

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Peter Brooks wrote:
> I meant to ask another question. All the single ovens I've seen so far
> have top opening doors. The eye-level ovens have doors that open on
> the right. I'd like an oven with a door that has a hinge on the right
> and opens on the left - it fits the space better, there isn't a spring
> to go wrong and it works better for me as a left-hander. Has anybody
> seen any that do this?


The Zanussi ZBF569SX has a reversible side opening door and I see that
Baumatic also do one now as well. Side opening doors on this type of
oven seem to be quite rare!

Cheers,
Ben.

In message >, Richard
> writes
>NEFF used to have a range called 'Domino' which enabled you to mix and
>match - gas, electric, griddles, BBQ things - electrically heated
>rocks, WOK burners etc.

I've got the NEFF 2007 brochure - they still do the Domino range and
other manufacturers have copied them - I like the idea but am concerned
at all the extra edges that will need to be cleaned (not keen on
spending time on cleaning in this house.

--
Si

Peter Brooks wrote:
>
> On Sep 9, 3:59 pm, Richard > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Given another go at it I would go down the Domino route (cash permitting!)
> >
> Thank you - I'll investigate that.
>
> I meant to ask another question. All the single ovens I've seen so far
> have top opening doors. The eye-level ovens have doors that open on
> the right. I'd like an oven with a door that has a hinge on the right
> and opens on the left - it fits the space better, there isn't a spring
> to go wrong and it works better for me as a left-hander. Has anybody
> seen any that do this?

If it's a single door of the side opening type, there is a very high
probability it has been designed to be reversible, requiring just a few
minutes with a screwdriver to change. I haven't seen any side opening
residential ovens here in the US, but all the top or bottom freezer type
refrigerators I've seen have reversible doors as do most washers and
dryers.

As for convection, I do find it to be useful, particularly for baking
where the fan forced movement significantly reduces the hot spots
typical in non convection ovens and reduces the number of pan rotations
required to get even results. Every commercial standalone oven I've
worked with has been convection.

James Silverton wrote:
> Just to set me straight, is "hob" a generic term word for the
> cooking surfaces of a stove in UK speak? Does it also refer to
> these things when they are cook-tops separate from the oven(s)?

Yes!

On Sep 9, 4:51 pm, Ben Willcox > wrote:
> Peter Brooks wrote:
> > I meant to ask another question. All the single ovens I've seen so far
> > have top opening doors. The eye-level ovens have doors that open on
> > the right. I'd like an oven with a door that has a hinge on the right
> > and opens on the left - it fits the space better, there isn't a spring
> > to go wrong and it works better for me as a left-hander. Has anybody
> > seen any that do this?
>
> The Zanussi ZBF569SX has a reversible side opening door and I see that
> Baumatic also do one now as well. Side opening doors on this type of
> oven seem to be quite rare!
>
Thank you - it is a peculiar development. Top opening seems a design
flaw to me, relying as it does, on springs lasting for ever and good
seals. A side opening door doesn't have to fight gravity, so must be
more reliable.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...

> As for convection, I do find it to be useful, particularly for baking
> where the fan forced movement significantly reduces the hot spots
> typical in non convection ovens and reduces the number of pan rotations
> required to get even results. Every commercial standalone oven I've
> worked with has been convection.

Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on convection to
circulate the air rather than a fan...

cheers,
clive

Clive George wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > As for convection, I do find it to be useful, particularly for baking
> > where the fan forced movement significantly reduces the hot spots
> > typical in non convection ovens and reduces the number of pan rotations
> > required to get even results. Every commercial standalone oven I've
> > worked with has been convection.
>
> Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on convection to
> circulate the air rather than a fan...
>
> cheers,
> clive

No, it's the one with the fan and the extra heating element around the
fan, at least in the US.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...
> Clive George wrote:
>>
>> "Pete C." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > As for convection, I do find it to be useful, particularly for baking
>> > where the fan forced movement significantly reduces the hot spots
>> > typical in non convection ovens and reduces the number of pan rotations
>> > required to get even results. Every commercial standalone oven I've
>> > worked with has been convection.
>>
>> Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on convection to
>> circulate the air rather than a fan...
>
> No, it's the one with the fan and the extra heating element around the
> fan, at least in the US.

Ummm, ok. Is there a sensible reason for this, or is it just insanity?

(Over here we call them fan ovens)

cheers,
clive

Clive wrote on Sun, 9 Sep 2007 18:31:41 +0100:

??>> As for convection, I do find it to be useful, particularly
??>> for baking where the fan forced movement significantly
??>> reduces the hot spots typical in non convection ovens and
??>> reduces the number of pan rotations required to get even
??>> results. Every commercial standalone oven I've worked with
??>> has been convection.

CG> Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on
CG> convection to circulate the air rather than a fan...

Technically, I believe you are absolutely correct but
advertising and commercial practice has led to the use of the
term "convection" for "forced circulation".

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Clive George wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Clive George wrote:
> >>
> >> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > As for convection, I do find it to be useful, particularly for baking
> >> > where the fan forced movement significantly reduces the hot spots
> >> > typical in non convection ovens and reduces the number of pan rotations
> >> > required to get even results. Every commercial standalone oven I've
> >> > worked with has been convection.
> >>
> >> Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on convection to
> >> circulate the air rather than a fan...
> >
> > No, it's the one with the fan and the extra heating element around the
> > fan, at least in the US.
>
> Ummm, ok. Is there a sensible reason for this, or is it just insanity?
>
> (Over here we call them fan ovens)
>
> cheers,
> clive

Dunno, probably just short for "forced convection".

On 2007-09-09, Peter Brooks > wrote:
> My stove and oven seem to need replacement. I think that they can be
> repaired, but they are getting on and the time between repairs is
> getting shorter - time to consider splashing out!
>
> I have quite a few questions and would love any opinions. I'll list
> them:
>
> - Are there any real lemons that I should avoid?
>
> - I tried a convection oven a couple of decades ago and it was utterly
> useless. I see that they are still flogging them, so maybe the
> technology has improved. Is it worth bothering?

There are convection ovens which rely entirely on a fan and heating
element around the fan for heat. That is the design of many
commercial ovens, which work very well, and also of a number of
residential countertop ovens, which might not work so well due to lack
of power. Then there are built-in convection ovens which are like
normal ovens, with heating elements top and bottom, but then also a
fan to circulate air, with or without a heating element for the fan.
I think the latter works quite well, and you can choose to switch the
fan on or not according to your needs.

> - I'll probably go for a standard four ring stove top. However, I like
> the idea of induction hobs. I also like ceramic hobs. Has any
> manufacturer been sensible enough to produce a hybrid with a couple of
> conventional ceramic hob plates (for glass, aluminum etc.) and a
> couple of induction plates for cast iron and so forth? If so, who has
> done this?

I think Viking has some very expensive combination cooktops. You can
also get an induction-only cooktop, and have a freestanding plug-in
hotplate for when you need to use non-induction cookware.
Freestanding induction hobs are also available (and cheap), and
probably worth trying before you take the induction plunge.


> - If I did decide to go for a full induction hob, what is the solution
> to pressure cooking? Pretty well all the pressure cookers that I've
> seen are made of aluminium. Are there any made from materials that
> work in induction plates?

There are stainless steel pressure cookers. Kuhn Rikon makes quite a
few models, and I am pretty sure they are all induction-compatible.
(But don't take my word for it, because I'm not entirely sure.) You
can also get magnetic steel or iron plates that allow you to use
non-magnetic cookware on induction hobs -- the induction hob heats the
plate, which heats the cookware, more or less the same as a ceramic or
electric hob. This is obviously a bit less efficient than using
induction-compatible cookware directly.

--
Randall

On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 18:51:44 GMT someone who may be "James
Silverton" > wrote this:-

> CG> Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on
> CG> convection to circulate the air rather than a fan...
>
>Technically, I believe you are absolutely correct but
>advertising and commercial practice has led to the use of the
>term "convection" for "forced circulation".

Given that one of the groups posted to was a UK one I presume the
original poster wanted a UK reply. In which case there are fan ovens
and conventional ones. An example would be
http://www.belling.co.uk/Built-in-Ov...U90FP_s53.aspx
which has both.

Had I been asked what a convection oven was then I would have
assumed it was a conventional oven.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 05:02:52 +0100, David Hansen
> wrote:

>On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 18:51:44 GMT someone who may be "James
>Silverton" > wrote this:-
>
>> CG> Eh? Isn't convection the one without the fan? Relying on
>> CG> convection to circulate the air rather than a fan...
>>
>>Technically, I believe you are absolutely correct but
>>advertising and commercial practice has led to the use of the
>>term "convection" for "forced circulation".
>
>Given that one of the groups posted to was a UK one I presume the
>original poster wanted a UK reply. In which case there are fan ovens
>and conventional ones. An example would be
>http://www.belling.co.uk/Built-in-Ov...U90FP_s53.aspx
>which has both.
>
>Had I been asked what a convection oven was then I would have
>assumed it was a conventional oven.

To the OP: Forget about convection. It's over rated.

I saw some awesome stoves when I visited London last year, so get out
and shop! I didn't write down any brand names because I didn't think
I could find them here in the US - and if I did, service would be a
problem here out here on the West Coast.
--

History is a vast early warning system
Norman Cousins

On 2007-09-10 10:29:19 +0100, Owain > said:

> sf wrote:
>> I saw some awesome stoves when I visited London last year, so get out
>> and shop! I didn't write down any brand names because I didn't think
>> I could find them here in the US - and if I did, service would be a
>> problem here out here on the West Coast.
>
> And they probably wouldn't work on your electricity...
>
> Owain

220v is used for cookers....

Owain wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
>> I saw some awesome stoves when I visited London last year, so get out
>> and shop! I didn't write down any brand names because I didn't think
>> I could find them here in the US - and if I did, service would be a
>> problem here out here on the West Coast.
>
>
> And they probably wouldn't work on your electricity...
>
>
US cookers run on 220v, as do clothes dryers, water heaters, and some
air-conditioners.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:06:08 -0400, S Viemeister
> wrote:

>Owain wrote:
>
>> sf wrote:
>>
>>> I saw some awesome stoves when I visited London last year, so get out
>>> and shop! I didn't write down any brand names because I didn't think
>>> I could find them here in the US - and if I did, service would be a
>>> problem here out here on the West Coast.
>>
>>
>> And they probably wouldn't work on your electricity...
>>
>>
>US cookers run on 220v, as do clothes dryers, water heaters, and some
>air-conditioners.

In reality, I wouldn't order anything from over seas... I'd order here
in the US because like cars, appliances are built to fit US standards.
For instance, European cars here have their steering wheels on the
left, so the voltage or btu issue with European stoves wouldn't be a
problem. I feel confident that I wouldn't have any basic problems.
However, I doubt repair and maintenance would be easy here unless the
brand name gained in popularity.

<rant on> That situation didn't keep me from lusting after one brand
in particular. If the showroom sales woman had been a bit more
aggressive and a little less snooty, she would have had someone here
on an international ng talking about her product AND talking about her
store (which was a very nice one) in the heart of London. However she
turned me off so much by her shear arrogance and her ignorant
assumption that a tourist who is just kicking tires can't do anything
to affect her bottom line. What fool is going to plonk down cash the
moment they walk in the door anyway? As a result, I barely remember
which district the store was in.

Fie on you.... you snotty female salesperson!
<I feel better now, TY>
--

History is a vast early warning system
Norman Cousins

On Sep 9, 9:58 pm, Randall Nortman > wrote:
>
>
> I think Viking has some very expensive combination cooktops. You can
> also get an induction-only cooktop, and have a freestanding plug-in
> hotplate for when you need to use non-induction cookware.
> Freestanding induction hobs are also available (and cheap), and
> probably worth trying before you take the induction plunge.
>
I've had a look at some combinations and, indeed, they are very
expensive. So I've decided to go with a conventional whirlpool ceramic
hob.

However, I'd like to get a free standing induction hob as well. Do you
have any makes that you can suggest? I haven't been able to find any
in South Africa at all. I'd like to know so I can buy one if I'm
abroad some day.