How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?

What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
Secret with Spiderman on the box.

On Jul 4, 5:43 pm, Richard Fangnail >
wrote:
> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> Secret with Spiderman on the box.

It's not butter. Troll.

--Bryan

Richard Fangnail > wrote:
>How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?

They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.

When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.

>What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>Secret with Spiderman on the box.

The kind without butter is the best.

--Blair

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> Richard Fangnail > wrote:
>> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.
>
> When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.
>
>> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
> The kind without butter is the best.
>
It's quite obvious school is out. Spiderman popcorn! Maybe his mommy will
teach him how to make real popcorn that doesn't require a microwave or
spiderman. Nawww, that would mean she's paying *attention* rather than
paying for him to go to the movies and letting him eat crap popcorn. Heaven
forbid.

Jill

On Jul 4, 7:08 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > Richard Fangnail > wrote:
> >> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> >> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> > They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.
>
> > When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.
>
> >> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> >> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
> > The kind without butter is the best.
>
> It's quite obvious school is out. Spiderman popcorn! Maybe his mommy will
> teach him how to make real popcorn that doesn't require a microwave or
> spiderman. Nawww, that would mean she's paying *attention* rather than
> paying for him to go to the movies and letting him eat crap popcorn. Heaven
> forbid.

As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
(grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
"shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
been banned.

>
> Jill

--Bryan

In om>, BOBOBOnoBO® wrote:
>On Jul 4, 7:08 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> > Richard Fangnail > wrote:
>> >> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>> >> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>>
>> > They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.
>>
>> > When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.
>>
>> >> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>> >> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>>
>> > The kind without butter is the best.
>>
>> It's quite obvious school is out. Spiderman popcorn! Maybe his mommy will
>> teach him how to make real popcorn that doesn't require a microwave or
>> spiderman. Nawww, that would mean she's paying *attention* rather than
>> paying for him to go to the movies and letting him eat crap popcorn. Heaven
>> forbid.
>
>As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
>grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
>all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
>(grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
>"shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
>some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
>while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
>Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
>hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
>been banned.

True...

Meanwhile, despite any hype, palm and coconut oils are very highly
saturated, hardly behind the few "fully saturated" ones such as
"fully hydrogenated" (which are trans-fat-free - trans is a bad kind of
unsaturated fat).

Trans is worst and saturated is second-worst. Fats of warm blooded
animals rank behind those, by being roughly or a little over 50% saturated
with little trans. Unhydrogenated non-tropical vegetable oils and oils of
cold water fishes do better by being low in both trans and saturated fats.

- Don Klipstein )

Richard Fangnail wrote:
> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>

My favorite is the one with the trolls on the box...

On Jul 4, 8:37 pm, BOBOBOnoBO® > wrote:
> On Jul 4, 7:08 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> > > Richard Fangnail > wrote:
> > >> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> > >> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> > > They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.
>
> > > When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.
>
> > >> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> > >> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
> > > The kind without butter is the best.
>
> > It's quite obvious school is out. Spiderman popcorn! Maybe his mommy will
> > teach him how to make real popcorn that doesn't require a microwave or
> > spiderman. Nawww, that would mean she's paying *attention* rather than
> > paying for him to go to the movies and letting him eat crap popcorn. Heaven
> > forbid.
>
> As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
> grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
> all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
> (grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
> "shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
> some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
> while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
> Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
> hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
> been banned.

People will die "early" (early compared to what, BTW?) for all sorts
of things. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot injest?

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:27:42 -0700, BOBOBOnoBO® >
wrote:

>On Jul 4, 5:43 pm, Richard Fangnail >
>wrote:
>> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>>
>> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
>It's not butter. Troll.
>
>--Bryan

There sure are some rude people on usenet. When they dont like the
question or know the answer they shout "troll". I always wonder why
they dont just skip on to the next message and shutup, rather than
waste their time replying and waste everyone elses time who opens
their useless reply.

Now to answer the question. The "butter" is unlikely actual butter.
(I said unlikely because there may be a brand that does contain actual
butter). The ones I have tried all say "Butter Flavor".

This stuff is actually a mixture of oil and artificial flavoring.
It's not placed inside the popcorn seed, it's inside the bag as a semi
hard grease. As the popcorn pops, heat melts this flavored oil, which
spreads it to the popped corn. They also sell some other flavored
varieties these days. I tried a spicey hot pepper variety which we
just stumbled across while travelling. That stuff was really good.
Too bad we cant find it locally. There again, the flavor is just
added to the oils in the bag. I suppose the stuff is all trans-fats
and unhealthy as heck, but these days almost everything is bad for us.

I still like home popped (on the stove) popcorn with real better
poured over it, the best. But when one is on the go and in a hurry,
many of the microwave popcorns are not all that bad.

Julie

On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:08:10 -0500, "jmcquown" >
wrote:

>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> Richard Fangnail > wrote:
>>> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>>> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>>
>> They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.
>>
>> When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.
>>
>>> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>>> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>>
>> The kind without butter is the best.
>>
>It's quite obvious school is out. Spiderman popcorn! Maybe his mommy will
>teach him how to make real popcorn that doesn't require a microwave or
>spiderman. Nawww, that would mean she's paying *attention* rather than
>paying for him to go to the movies and letting him eat crap popcorn. Heaven
>forbid.
>
>Jill
>

i thought it was september when all those nasty college students got
their internet accounts that the goofballs came out. gosh, it's hard
to keep these usenet clichés straight.

but keep bitching about it, jill. that will send them scurrying
behind mama's skirts!

your pal,
blake

As I understand it, on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:43:09 -0700, Richard
Fangnail > wrote:

>How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
>What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>Secret with Spiderman on the box.

I've never thought about it before, but my GUESS is that the
oil inside the bag is butter flavor. As the corn pops, the butter
flavored oil gets on the corn.

--
Kent
"I most stonger than Darth Vapor!"
-- Zladko "Zlad" Vladcik

As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:22:10 -0700, Larry Bud
> wrote:

[...]

>> As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
>> grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
>> all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
>> (grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
>> "shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
>> some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
>> while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
>> Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
>> hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
>> been banned.
>
>People will die "early" (early compared to what, BTW?) for all sorts
>of things. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot injest?

Why Larry, don't you understand? There are those out there
who know all there is to know about everything. These people want to
make certain NO ONE has any enjoyment in life, ever.
Sadly, I'm only being half sarcastic.

--
Kent
The irony of life is that, by the time
you're old enough to know your way
around, you're not going anywhere.

In article >,
Kent Wills > wrote:

> As I understand it, on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:43:09 -0700, Richard
> Fangnail > wrote:
>
> >How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> >popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
> >
> >What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> >Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
> I've never thought about it before, but my GUESS is that the
> oil inside the bag is butter flavor. As the corn pops, the butter
> flavored oil gets on the corn.

The butter flavor in microwave popcorn comes from a chemical called
diacetyl. This chemical is the subject of several lung injury lawsuits
by popcorn factory workers. Some workers have scaring of the lungs to
the point of needing lung transplants. This is also know as "popcorn
workers lung". These law suits have been much in the news lately, so I
am surprised that you haven't heard of them (and the chemical that gives
the butter flavor to microwave popcorn).

Just google for 'diacetyl' and you will get all kinds of information.

--
-Ernie-

As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 15:45:59 -0700, Ernie Klein
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Kent Wills > wrote:
>
>> As I understand it, on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:43:09 -0700, Richard
>> Fangnail > wrote:
>>
>> >How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>> >popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>> >
>> >What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>> >Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>>
>> I've never thought about it before, but my GUESS is that the
>> oil inside the bag is butter flavor. As the corn pops, the butter
>> flavored oil gets on the corn.
>
>The butter flavor in microwave popcorn comes from a chemical called
>diacetyl. This chemical is the subject of several lung injury lawsuits
>by popcorn factory workers. Some workers have scaring of the lungs to
>the point of needing lung transplants. This is also know as "popcorn
>workers lung". These law suits have been much in the news lately, so I
>am surprised that you haven't heard of them (and the chemical that gives
>the butter flavor to microwave popcorn).
>

Popcorn isn't a major interest of mine, so I haven't paid any
attention. On those rare occasions when I enjoy any, it's air popped.

>Just google for 'diacetyl' and you will get all kinds of information.
--
Kent
Recuerdo del Fin Del Mundo!

On Jul 5, 4:50 pm, Kent Wills > wrote:
> As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:22:10 -0700, Larry Bud
>
> > wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
> >> grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
> >> all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
> >> (grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
> >> "shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
> >> some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
> >> while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
> >> Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
> >> hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
> >> been banned.
>
> >People will die "early" (early compared to what, BTW?) for all sorts
> >of things. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot injest?
>
> Why Larry, don't you understand? There are those out there
> who know all there is to know about everything. These people want to
> make certain NO ONE has any enjoyment in life, ever.
> Sadly, I'm only being half sarcastic.

Nice. Pigs who get "enjoyment" from vegetable shortening.
Do you also think it should be legal to sell home made
methamphetamine?
What about serving contaminated groundwater in a restaurant?
>
> --
> Kent
> The irony of life is that, by the time
> you're old enough to know your way
> around, you're not going anywhere.

--Bryan

On Jul 6, 12:06 am, Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
> On Jul 5, 4:50 pm, Kent Wills > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:22:10 -0700, Larry Bud
>
> > > wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > >> As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
> > >> grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
> > >> all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
> > >> (grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
> > >> "shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
> > >> some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
> > >> while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
> > >> Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
> > >> hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
> > >> been banned.
>
> > >People will die "early" (early compared to what, BTW?) for all sorts
> > >of things. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot injest?
>
> > Why Larry, don't you understand? There are those out there
> > who know all there is to know about everything. These people want to
> > make certain NO ONE has any enjoyment in life, ever.
> > Sadly, I'm only being half sarcastic.
>
> Nice. Pigs who get "enjoyment" from vegetable shortening.

I'm 38 years old, 5'8", 150 lbs. I'll enjoy what I want, when I
want. Who the hell are you to tell me otherwise?

> Do you also think it should be legal to sell home made
> methamphetamine?

To adults, of course.

> What about serving contaminated groundwater in a restaurant?

The expectation of drinking water in a restaurant is that it's not
contaminated. However, the expectation when eating high fat foods is
that you might get fat, and it might not be good for you.

Why stop at vegetable shortening? Perhaps I don't think you should be
drinking all that sugar water, kindly named 'Soda" or "Pop". Or
perhaps your lawn mower is making too much noise for your neighbor's
liking? Come to think of it, I don't really like the way you dress,
or the kind of car you drive.

Or Beer! For God's sake, how did I forget beer?!?! Let's make
EVERYTHING illegal, because, after all, the Do Gooders know better
than everyone... somehow.

On Jul 5, 5:50 pm, Kent Wills > wrote:
> As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:22:10 -0700, Larry Bud
>
> > wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
> >> grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
> >> all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
> >> (grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
> >> "shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
> >> some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
> >> while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
> >> Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
> >> hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
> >> been banned.
>
> >People will die "early" (early compared to what, BTW?) for all sorts
> >of things. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot injest?
>
> Why Larry, don't you understand? There are those out there
> who know all there is to know about everything. These people want to
> make certain NO ONE has any enjoyment in life, ever.
> Sadly, I'm only being half sarcastic.

You're not being sarcastic at all, you're absolutely right. I'm all
for people knowing all they can know, but those people need to but the
hell out of my business, trying to tell me what I can and cannot eat,
drink, smoke, drive, watch on TV, listen to on the radio, and read on
the internet.

It's the whole mentality of eliminating personal responsibility, words
that many cannot even say.

On Jul 5, 2:21 pm, wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:27:42 -0700, BOBOBOnoBO® >
> wrote:
>
> >On Jul 4, 5:43 pm, Richard Fangnail >
> >wrote:
> >> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> >> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> >> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> >> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
> >It's not butter. Troll.
>
> >--Bryan
>
> There sure are some rude people on usenet. When they dont like the
> question or know the answer they shout "troll". I always wonder why
> they dont just skip on to the next message and shutup, rather than
> waste their time replying and waste everyone elses time who opens
> their useless reply.
>
> Now to answer the question. The "butter" is unlikely actual butter.
> (I said unlikely because there may be a brand that does contain actual
> butter). The ones I have tried all say "Butter Flavor".
>
> This stuff is actually a mixture of oil and artificial flavoring.
> It's not placed inside the popcorn seed, it's inside the bag as a semi
> hard grease. As the popcorn pops, heat melts this flavored oil, which
> spreads it to the popped corn. They also sell some other flavored
> varieties these days. I tried a spicey hot pepper variety which we
> just stumbled across while travelling. That stuff was really good.
> Too bad we cant find it locally. There again, the flavor is just
> added to the oils in the bag. I suppose the stuff is all trans-fats
> and unhealthy as heck, but these days almost everything is bad for us.
>
> I still like home popped (on the stove) popcorn with real better
> poured over it, the best. But when one is on the go and in a hurry,
> many of the microwave popcorns are not all that bad.
>
> Julie

We use the Whirlypop from Wabash Valley? I think that is the name...
making it on our own and knowing all of the ingredients we are putting
into
it is the only way to go!

Tom
www.itspuresoap.com
www.seo9oneone.com

On Jul 4, 8:03 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In om>, BOBOBOnoBO® wrote:
> >On Jul 4, 7:08 pm, "jmcquown" > wrote:
> >> Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >> > Richard Fangnail > wrote:
> >> >> How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
> >> >> popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>
> >> > They put the grease in the bag with the unpopped corn.
>
> >> > When the corn pops, it gets the grease on it.
>
> >> >> What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
> >> >> Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>
> >> > The kind without butter is the best.
>
> >> It's quite obvious school is out. Spiderman popcorn! Maybe his mommy will
> >> teach him how to make real popcorn that doesn't require a microwave or
> >> spiderman. Nawww, that would mean she's paying *attention* rather than
> >> paying for him to go to the movies and letting him eat crap popcorn. Heaven
> >> forbid.
>
> >As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
> >grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
> >all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
> >(grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
> >"shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
> >some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
> >while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
> >Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
> >hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
> >been banned.
>
> True...
>
> Meanwhile, despite any hype, palm and coconut oils are very highly
> saturated, hardly behind the few "fully saturated" ones such as
> "fully hydrogenated" (which are trans-fat-free - trans is a bad kind of
> unsaturated fat).

Coconut oil IS bad. Palm KERNEL oil is bad. Palm oil (as opposed to
palm kernel oil) is not. Not all saturated fatty acids have the same
effects on blood lipoproteins.
Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a good
effect on lipoproteins. citation below:

Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol concentration
and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid peroxidation in healthy
humans.
Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9

Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...has a neutral effect on
the plasma lipid profile." citation below:
Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
oxidation
CJ Fuller and I Jialal
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S

Stearic acid is a fully saturated fatty acid.
The short chain saturated fats are also fine.
All trans fats are very bad, but saturated fats are far more
complicated than you described.
>
> - Don Klipstein )

--Bryan

Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a good
>effect on lipoproteins. citation below:
>
> Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol concentration
>and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid peroxidation in healthy
>humans.
> Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
>Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
> Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9

Cocoa butter is white chocolate. Dark chocolate minimizes
cocoa butter and maximizes nonfat cocoa solids.

>Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...

And soap...

>has a neutral effect on
>the plasma lipid profile." citation below:

Hully gee! A /neutral effect/!

>Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
>oxidation
>CJ Fuller and I Jialal
>American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S
>
>Stearic acid is a fully saturated fatty acid.
>The short chain saturated fats are also fine.
>All trans fats are very bad, but saturated fats are far more
>complicated than you described.

The evidence seems to be that saturated fats were sullied
by association with trans fats. As trans fats come from
artificially saturating unsaturated fats, and the FDA for
a long time didn't require labelling foods with trans-fat
content.

--Blair

As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 21:06:22 -0700, Bobo Bonobo®
> wrote:

>On Jul 5, 4:50 pm, Kent Wills > wrote:
>> As I understand it, on Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:22:10 -0700, Larry Bud
>>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >> As Blair wrote, it is "grease," and none of us are going to equate
>> >> grease with butter, right? Margarine/shortening are grease. Nearly
>> >> all the microwave popcorns have been made with hydrogenated oils
>> >> (grease). True, some of them are now made with healthier
>> >> "shortening," mostly palm oil, but God, that's only in response to
>> >> some really vocal folks who have been screaming about trans-fats,
>> >> while most others were willing to accept that stuff as OK.
>> >> Millions of Americans will die earlier of heart disease because
>> >> hydrogenated oils have stayed LEGAL for years after they should have
>> >> been banned.
>>
>> >People will die "early" (early compared to what, BTW?) for all sorts
>> >of things. Who are you to tell me what I can and cannot injest?
>>
>> Why Larry, don't you understand? There are those out there
>> who know all there is to know about everything. These people want to
>> make certain NO ONE has any enjoyment in life, ever.
>> Sadly, I'm only being half sarcastic.
>
>Nice. Pigs who get "enjoyment" from vegetable shortening.

If someone who knows the risks does, what's it to you?

>Do you also think it should be legal to sell home made
>methamphetamine?

I would NEVER partake of meth. However, if an adult who knows
the risks wants to, what business is it of mine, or yours, that they
do? Other then the reported smell of manufacture, what possible
discomfort would it do you?

>What about serving contaminated groundwater in a restaurant?

If someone wishes to consume contaminated water, it's their
business. It would be stupid, and any restaurant found willfully
serving it wouldn't have much in the way of customers.


--
Kent
"I most stonger than Darth Vapor!"
-- Zladko "Zlad" Vladcik

In >, Ernie Klein wrote:
>In article >,
> Kent Wills > wrote:
>
>> As I understand it, on Wed, 04 Jul 2007 15:43:09 -0700, Richard
>> Fangnail > wrote:
>>
>> >How do they get the butter onto the popcorn? The edible part of the
>> >popcorn is inside the kernel before popping, isn't it?
>> >
>> >What is the best type of microwave popcorn with butter? I like Pop
>> >Secret with Spiderman on the box.
>>
>> I've never thought about it before, but my GUESS is that the
>> oil inside the bag is butter flavor. As the corn pops, the butter
>> flavored oil gets on the corn.
>
>The butter flavor in microwave popcorn comes from a chemical called
>diacetyl. This chemical is the subject of several lung injury lawsuits
>by popcorn factory workers. Some workers have scaring of the lungs to
>the point of needing lung transplants. This is also know as "popcorn
>workers lung". These law suits have been much in the news lately, so I
>am surprised that you haven't heard of them (and the chemical that gives
>the butter flavor to microwave popcorn).
>
>Just google for 'diacetyl' and you will get all kinds of information.

2,3-butanedione. Liquid that is miscible with water (mixes in any
ratio), and has a boiling point of 88 degrees C.

The molecule looks related to acetone and MEK. I know those permeate
through the body easily. In fact,

http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics1168.htm says it is absorbed
into the body through inhalation and skin.

I suspect that any vapor inhalation damaging only or mainly the lungs,
if possible, would be caused by very acute very severe exposure.

I am aware that its MSDS, at:

http://www.physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/BU...tanedione.html

mentions:

"Note that there is some evidence that chronic exposure to this compound
may contribute to the development of the potentially fatal condition
bronchiolitis obliterans. See, for example Eur. Respir. J., 24: 298-302
(2004)"

I suspect that if this was true, then it would take some fairly
concentrated vapors to do such a thing and that other ketones would also
do it.

I suspect popcorn workers actually injured by popcorn flavor fumes could
have been injured by something else but went after what appeared to them
or their lawyers to be the harshest chemical around.

If diacetyl does indeed have this lung hazard, some fairly ordinary
amount of ventillation should be enough to take care of it.

Diacetyl is not some Frankensteinish stuff not found in nature, but
exists in nature as a natural fermentation product. Some alcoholic
beverages are even made in ways that enhance content of diacetyl for its
flavor, notably some chardonnays.

- Don Klipstein )

In article om>, Bobo
Bonobo® wrote:
>On Jul 4, 8:03 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:

<I edit for space>

>> Meanwhile, despite any hype, palm and coconut oils are very highly
>> saturated, hardly behind the few "fully saturated" ones such as
>> "fully hydrogenated" (which are trans-fat-free - trans is a bad kind of
>> unsaturated fat).
>
>Coconut oil IS bad. Palm KERNEL oil is bad. Palm oil (as opposed to
>palm kernel oil) is not. Not all saturated fatty acids have the same
>effects on blood lipoproteins.
>Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a good
>effect on lipoproteins. citation below:
>
> Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol concentration
>and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid peroxidation in healthy
>humans.
> Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
>Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
> Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9

What about milk chocolate and "white" chocolate, which also have cocoa
butter? Cocoa butter is the main fatty ingredient in all of these. In
fcat it appears to me that white "chocolate" has even more, since I find
it less sweet so it probably has less sugar and cocoa butter is the other
main ingredient.

I hear plenty of stuff about dark chocolate being good, but with
benefits being claimed to be from flavones.

>Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...has a neutral effect on
>the plasma lipid profile." citation below:
>Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
>oxidation
>CJ Fuller and I Jialal
>American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S

Is that the basis for the beef industry a decade or so (maybe somewhat
more) ago wanting to have stearic acid not counted as a saturated fatty
acid?

>Stearic acid is a fully saturated fatty acid.
>The short chain saturated fats are also fine.
>All trans fats are very bad, but saturated fats are far more
>complicated than you described.

- Don Klipstein )

In article >, Blair P.
Houghton wrote:
>Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>>Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a good
>>effect on lipoproteins. citation below:
>>
>> Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol concentration
>>and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid peroxidation in healthy
>>humans.
>> Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
>>Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
>> Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9
>
>Cocoa butter is white chocolate. Dark chocolate minimizes
>cocoa butter and maximizes nonfat cocoa solids.
>
>>Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...
>
>And soap...
>
>>has a neutral effect on
>>the plasma lipid profile." citation below:
>
>Hully gee! A /neutral effect/!
>
>>Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
>>oxidation
>>CJ Fuller and I Jialal
>>American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S
>>
>>Stearic acid is a fully saturated fatty acid.
>>The short chain saturated fats are also fine.
>>All trans fats are very bad, but saturated fats are far more
>>complicated than you described.
>
>The evidence seems to be that saturated fats were sullied
>by association with trans fats. As trans fats come from
>artificially saturating unsaturated fats, and the FDA for
>a long time didn't require labelling foods with trans-fat
>content.

What happened decades ago was that saturated fats were found to be worse
than unsaturated ones.

Next, partial hydrogenation became popular. Partial hydrogenation
involves making a polyunsaturated fat "more saturated", but usually
mostly still unsaturated - while achieving the fat being semisolid or
semiliquid at room temperature. Trans fats are a major part of this.

The opposite of "trans" is "cis". Unsaturated fats with their double
bonds having the "cis" arrangement tend to be liquid at room temperature.

So, we got the various vegetable shortenings, and margarine being
supposedly healthier than butter. I remember back in the 1970's seeing
how a vegetable shortening container boasted about being "highly
unsaturated".

And after that, there was getting to be some disappointment in the
healthfulness of unsaturated fats and questioning of unhealthfulness of
saturated fats. But following that was identification of trans fats as
being especially unhealthful despite being unsaturated.

Before trans fats were counted separately, they were counted as
unsaturated, not saturated.

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein > wrote:
> In article >, Blair P.
> Houghton wrote:
>> Bobo Bonobo® > wrote:
>>> Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a
>>> good effect on lipoproteins. citation below:
>>>
>>> Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol
>>> concentration and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid
>>> peroxidation in healthy humans.
>>> Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
>>> Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
>>> Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9
>>
>> Cocoa butter is white chocolate. Dark chocolate minimizes
>> cocoa butter and maximizes nonfat cocoa solids.
>>
>>> Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...
>>
>> And soap...
>>
>>> has a neutral effect on
>>> the plasma lipid profile." citation below:
>>
>> Hully gee! A /neutral effect/!
>>
>>> Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
>>> oxidation
>>> CJ Fuller and I Jialal
>>> American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S
>>>
>>> Stearic acid is a fully saturated fatty acid.
>>> The short chain saturated fats are also fine.
>>> All trans fats are very bad, but saturated fats are far more
>>> complicated than you described.
>>
>> The evidence seems to be that saturated fats were sullied
>> by association with trans fats. As trans fats come from
>> artificially saturating unsaturated fats, and the FDA for
>> a long time didn't require labelling foods with trans-fat
>> content.

> What happened decades ago was that saturated
> fats were found to be worse than unsaturated ones.

Yes.

> Next, partial hydrogenation became popular.

Nope, that happened before saturated fats were found to be worse than partially saturated fats.

> Partial hydrogenation involves making a polyunsaturated fat "more
> saturated", but usually mostly still unsaturated - while achieving the
> fat being semisolid or semiliquid at room temperature.

Yes.

> Trans fats are a major part of this.

Not necessarily.

> The opposite of "trans" is "cis". Unsaturated fats with their double
> bonds having the "cis" arrangement tend to be liquid at room temperature.

You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room temp.

> So, we got the various vegetable shortenings, and margarine
> being supposedly healthier than butter. I remember back in
> the 1970's seeing how a vegetable shortening container
> boasted about being "highly unsaturated".

And the liquid fats like olive oil are clearly better health wise too.

> And after that, there was getting to be some disappointment in the
> healthfulness of unsaturated fats and questioning of unhealthfulness
> of saturated fats. But following that was identification of trans
> fats as being especially unhealthful despite being unsaturated.

> Before trans fats were counted separately, they
> were counted as unsaturated, not saturated.

Wrong again. They just showed up naturally in saturated fats.

And later showed up with unsaturated fats partially hydrogenated to make them more solid too.

On Jul 7, 12:44 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In article om>, Bobo
>
> Bonobo® wrote:
> >On Jul 4, 8:03 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
> <I edit for space>
>
>
>
> >> Meanwhile, despite any hype, palm and coconut oils are very highly
> >> saturated, hardly behind the few "fully saturated" ones such as
> >> "fully hydrogenated" (which are trans-fat-free - trans is a bad kind of
> >> unsaturated fat).
>
> >Coconut oil IS bad. Palm KERNEL oil is bad. Palm oil (as opposed to
> >palm kernel oil) is not. Not all saturated fatty acids have the same
> >effects on blood lipoproteins.
> >Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a good
> >effect on lipoproteins. citation below:
>
> > Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol concentration
> >and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid peroxidation in healthy
> >humans.
> > Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
> >Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
> > Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9
>
> What about milk chocolate and "white" chocolate, which also have cocoa
> butter? Cocoa butter is the main fatty ingredient in all of these. In
> fcat it appears to me that white "chocolate" has even more, since I find
> it less sweet so it probably has less sugar and cocoa butter is the other
> main ingredient.
>
> I hear plenty of stuff about dark chocolate being good, but with
> benefits being claimed to be from flavones.

The benefits are from the flavones. The cocoa butter is blood lipid
neutral, but since you have to get calories from somewhere, and too
much protein is not the healthiest choice, nor are high glycemic
carbs, nor alcohol, we're left with low GI carbs and good or neutral
fats.
>
> >Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...has a neutral effect on
> >the plasma lipid profile." citation below:
> >Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
> >oxidation
> >CJ Fuller and I Jialal
> >American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S
>
> Is that the basis for the beef industry a decade or so (maybe somewhat
> more) ago wanting to have stearic acid not counted as a saturated fatty
> acid?

Fat chance of that. Anyway, beef fat is high in palmitic acid, the
worst of the natural fats.
>
> >Stearic acid is a fully saturated fatty acid.
> >The short chain saturated fats are also fine.
> >All trans fats are very bad, but saturated fats are far more
> >complicated than you described.
>
> - Don Klipstein )

--Bryan

In .com>, Bobo Bonobo®
wrote in part:

>On Jul 7, 12:44 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>> In article om>, Bobo
>> Bonobo® wrote:
>> >On Jul 4, 8:03 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>>
>> <I edit for space>
>>
>> >> Meanwhile, despite any hype, palm and coconut oils are very highly
>> >> saturated, hardly behind the few "fully saturated" ones such as
>> >> "fully hydrogenated" (which are trans-fat-free - trans is a bad kind of
>> >> unsaturated fat).
>>
>> >Coconut oil IS bad. Palm KERNEL oil is bad. Palm oil (as opposed to
>> >palm kernel oil) is not. Not all saturated fatty acids have the same
>> >effects on blood lipoproteins.
>> >Cocoa butter, which is highly saturated, has been shown to have a good
>> >effect on lipoproteins. citation below:
>>
>> > Dark chocolate consumption increases HDL cholesterol concentration
>> >and chocolate fatty acids may inhibit lipid peroxidation in healthy
>> >humans.
>> > Mursu J, Voutilainen S, Nurmi T, Rissanen TH, Virtanen JK,
>> >Kaikkonen J, Nyyssönen K, Salonen JT.
>> > Free Radic Biol Med. 2004 Nov 1;37(9):1351-9
>>
>> What about milk chocolate and "white" chocolate, which also have cocoa
>> butter? Cocoa butter is the main fatty ingredient in all of these. In
>> fcat it appears to me that white "chocolate" has even more, since I find
>> it less sweet so it probably has less sugar and cocoa butter is the other
>> main ingredient.
>>
>> I hear plenty of stuff about dark chocolate being good, but with
>> benefits being claimed to be from flavones.

I do want to allow some correction of myself as to what the "good part
of dark chocolate" is called, now that I remember that also being called
flavins and flavinoids.

Meanwhile, "the good part of dark chocolate" remains not a common
saturated fat prevalent in chocolate candy.

>The benefits are from the flavones. The cocoa butter is blood lipid
>neutral, but since you have to get calories from somewhere, and too
>much protein is not the healthiest choice, nor are high glycemic carbs,
>nor alcohol, we're left with low GI carbs and good or neutral fats.
>>
>> >Also, "Stearic acid, found in cocoa butter...has a neutral effect on
>> >the plasma lipid profile." citation below:
>> >Effects of antioxidants and fatty acids on low-density-lipoprotein
>> >oxidation
>> >CJ Fuller and I Jialal
>> >American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 60, 1010S-1013S
>>
>> Is that the basis for the beef industry a decade or so (maybe somewhat
>> more) ago wanting to have stearic acid not counted as a saturated fatty
>> acid?
>
>Fat chance of that. Anyway, beef fat is high in palmitic acid, the
>worst of the natural fats.

Beef has both a lot of palmitic and a lot of stearic. Fatty acids in
tallow tend to be around 24-30% palmitic and around 24-30% stearic, give
or take a little depending on the genes, diet and exercise that the heads
of cattle have/experienced.

Palmitic acid is a C16 straight-chain saturated one, while stearic is a
C18 straight-chain saturated one. Stearic has its chain 2 carbons longer
than palmitic. These two fatty acids do not differ in degree of
saturation (saturated), do not differ in cis/trans (since neither applies
to saturated), do not differ even in locations of double bonds (saturated
fatty acids have none within the carbon chain), and as far as I ever hear
do not differ by branching (as far as I ever heard the "alkane chain" of
both palmitic and stearic lacked any comments of branching, as in stearic
being "octadecanoic acid" rather than
"whatever-number-methyl-heptadecanoic acid" or "whatever number
ethyl-hexanoic acid" or "whatever-two-numbers-dimethyl-hexanoic acid"
nor plenty of other isomeric variations along such a line).

As similar as palmitic and stearic are, I consider that it is a tall
order to convince me that one of them is "neutral" while the other is the
"worst of the natural fats".

- Don Klipstein )

In article >, Rod Speed wrote:
>Don Klipstein > wrote:

<Relevance begins here>

>> What happened decades ago was that saturated
>> fats were found to be worse than unsaturated ones.
>
>Yes.
>
>> Next, partial hydrogenation became popular.
>
>Nope, that happened before saturated fats were found to be worse than
>partially saturated fats.

<Reformat above into a sub-80-character line, which you should know
to have done after posting as many articles as you have done!>

So what the hell is a "partially saturated" fat? Especially since no
commonly used naturally occurring fats lack saturated fatty acids, and a
fatty acid is either saturated or not. Fatty acids are saturated,
monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated and cis/trans is a property only of
unsaturated fatty acids.

>> Partial hydrogenation involves making a polyunsaturated fat "more
>> saturated", but usually mostly still unsaturated - while achieving the
>> fat being semisolid or semiliquid at room temperature.
>
>Yes.
>
>> Trans fats are a major part of this.
>
>Not necessarily.

Check out the saturated/non-trans-unsaturated/trans content to extent
available in vegetable shortenings, no matter how solid at room
temperature.

>> The opposite of "trans" is "cis". Unsaturated fats with their double
>> bonds having the "cis" arrangement tend to be liquid at room temperature.
>
>You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room
>temp.

You make that claim - can you cite this being true of actual fats in
common usage? Why else would there be high trans fat content in semisolid
pasty shortenings that are 70-75% unsaturated? What else explains a
"highly unsaturated" vegetable shortening rich in partially hydrogenated
vegetable oils (when unhydrogenated normally polyunsaturated) being
nearly as "thick"/solid as butter?

>> So, we got the various vegetable shortenings, and margarine
>> being supposedly healthier than butter. I remember back in
>> the 1970's seeing how a vegetable shortening container
>> boasted about being "highly unsaturated".
>
>And the liquid fats like olive oil are clearly better health wise too.

D'oh!

>> And after that, there was getting to be some disappointment in the
>> healthfulness of unsaturated fats and questioning of unhealthfulness
>> of saturated fats. But following that was identification of trans
>> fats as being especially unhealthful despite being unsaturated.

>> Before trans fats were counted separately, they
>> were counted as unsaturated, not saturated.
>
>Wrong again. They just showed up naturally in saturated fats.

Trans fats are absolutely and by definition unsaturated. Whenever a
food label breaks down fat into "saturated/unsaturated" or
"saturated/monounsaturated/polyunsaturated" trans is, was and has always
been unsaturated.

There was always a bit of trans fat content in many fats of warm blooded
animals, but in recent decades the main source of trans fats has been
partial hydrogenation of polyunsaturated fats of vegetable origin,
generally non-tropical ones other than olive oil (since olive oil's main
fatty acid has only one double bond, and any hydrogenation of that one
makes it saturated).

>And later showed up with unsaturated fats partially hydrogenated to make
>them more solid too.

That was done at least far back as the mid 1970's. That was done unto
polyunsaturated fats, to make "highly unsaturated" shortenings that were
pasty rather than even pourable at room temperature.

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein > wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Don Klipstein > wrote

> <Relevance begins here>

Nope, context restored.

>>>> The evidence seems to be that saturated fats were sullied
>>>> by association with trans fats. As trans fats come from
>>>> artificially saturating unsaturated fats, and the FDA for a
>>>> long time didn't require labelling foods with trans-fat content.

>>> What happened decades ago was that saturated
>>> fats were found to be worse than unsaturated ones.

>> Yes.

>>> Next, partial hydrogenation became popular.

>> Nope, that happened before saturated fats were
>> found to be worse than partially saturated fats.

> <Reformat above into a sub-80-character line, which you should know
> to have done after posting as many articles as you have done!>

Anyone with a clue uses a news reader that reformats for you.

> So what the hell is a "partially saturated" fat?

One that doesnt have all the bonds fully saturated,
but more than the original poly unsaturated form.

> Especially since no commonly used naturally occurring fats lack saturated fatty acids,

Irrelevant to what is done with the unsaturated fats.

> and a fatty acid is either saturated or not.

Wrong, as always. The term poly unsaturated is there for a reason.

> Fatty acids are saturated, monounsaturated, or polyunsaturated

So that claim just above is clearly just plain wrong.

> and cis/trans is a property only of unsaturated fatty acids.

But both monounsaturated and polyunsaturated.

>>> Partial hydrogenation involves making a polyunsaturated fat "more
>>> saturated", but usually mostly still unsaturated - while achieving
>>> the fat being semisolid or semiliquid at room temperature.

>> Yes.

>>> Trans fats are a major part of this.

>> Not necessarily.

> Check out the saturated/non-trans-unsaturated/trans content to extent
> available in vegetable shortenings, no matter how solid at room temperature.

Been there, done that, long before you ever showed up and long before usenet did too.

>>> The opposite of "trans" is "cis". Unsaturated fats with their double bonds
>>> having the "cis" arrangement tend to be liquid at room temperature.

>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room temp.

> You make that claim - can you cite this
> being true of actual fats in common usage?

YOU made the original claim.

YOU get to do that citing.

THATS how it works.

> Why else would there be high trans fat content in semisolid
> pasty shortenings that are 70-75% unsaturated?

Why would there be a very low trans fat content in
semi solid margaines that are 70-75% unsaturated?

> What else explains a "highly unsaturated" vegetable shortening rich in
> partially hydrogenated vegetable oils (when unhydrogenated normally
> polyunsaturated) being nearly as "thick"/solid as butter?

Irrelevant to whether the trans form is any thicker than the cis form.

>>> So, we got the various vegetable shortenings, and margarine
>>> being supposedly healthier than butter. I remember back in
>>> the 1970's seeing how a vegetable shortening container
>>> boasted about being "highly unsaturated".

>> And the liquid fats like olive oil are clearly better health wise too.

> D'oh!

>>> And after that, there was getting to be some disappointment in the
>>> healthfulness of unsaturated fats and questioning of unhealthfulness
>>> of saturated fats. But following that was identification of trans
>>> fats as being especially unhealthful despite being unsaturated.

>>> Before trans fats were counted separately, they
>>> were counted as unsaturated, not saturated.

>> Wrong again. They just showed up naturally in saturated fats.

> Trans fats are absolutely and by definition unsaturated.

Doesnt mean that you dont get a low percentage of unsaturated
fatty acids in what is mostly saturated fats like animal fats.

> Whenever a food label breaks down fat into "saturated/unsaturated"
> or "saturated/monounsaturated/polyunsaturated" trans is, was and
> has always been unsaturated.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed there.

> There was always a bit of trans fat content in many fats of warm blooded animals,

Which is what I said in different words.

> but in recent decades the main source of trans fats has been partial hydrogenation
> of polyunsaturated fats of vegetable origin, generally non-tropical ones other than
> olive oil (since olive oil's main fatty acid has only one double bond, and any
> hydrogenation of that one makes it saturated).

Irrelevant to whether there was always a bit of trans fat content in many animal fats.

>> And later showed up with unsaturated fats partially
>> hydrogenated to make them more solid too.

> That was done at least far back as the mid 1970's.

Lot earlier than that in fact.

> That was done unto polyunsaturated fats, to make "highly unsaturated"
> shortenings that were pasty rather than even pourable at room temperature.

It was also done with margarine long before that.

In article >, Rod Speed wrote in part:
>Don Klipstein > wrote

>>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at
>>>room temp.
>
>> You make that claim - can you cite this
>> being true of actual fats in common usage?
>
>YOU made the original claim.
>
>YOU get to do that citing.
>
>THATS how it works.

Cis-octadecenoic acid melting point: 16 degrees C
Trans-octadecenoic acid melting point: 44 degrees C

http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM

(split into 3 lines)

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein > wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Don Klipstein > wrote

>>>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room temp.

>>> You make that claim - can you cite this
>>> being true of actual fats in common usage?

>> YOU made the original claim.

>> YOU get to do that citing.

>> THATS how it works.

> Cis-octadecenoic acid melting point: 16 degrees C
> Trans-octadecenoic acid melting point: 44 degrees C

> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM

> (split into 3 lines)

No need to split it with a decent news reader
http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM

Pity that that aint used in microwave popcorn.

Try again.

On Jul 7, 11:25 pm, (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> As similar as palmitic and stearic are, I consider that it is a tall
> order to convince me that one of them is "neutral" while the other is the
> "worst of the natural fats".

I think you could probably do the searches yourself on Pub Med.
It IS true.
>
> - Don Klipstein )

--Bryan

In article >, Rod Speed wrote:
>Don Klipstein > wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>
>>>>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room temp.
>
>>>> You make that claim - can you cite this
>>>> being true of actual fats in common usage?
>
>>> YOU made the original claim.
>
>>> YOU get to do that citing.
>
>>> THATS how it works.
>
>> Cis-octadecenoic acid melting point: 16 degrees C
>> Trans-octadecenoic acid melting point: 44 degrees C
>
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
>> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
>> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>
>> (split into 3 lines)
>
>No need to split it with a decent news reader
>http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM

My favorite newsreader is slrn and does not give me the option. I use
it because it is in the same account as my e-mail account, on a Unix
machine at the other end of a telnet connection, with my end being a
non-Unix machine. Great virus safety!

>Pity that that aint used in microwave popcorn.
>
>Try again.

Your discussion was on liquidness or lack thereof of trans and
non-trans fats. That is not limited to microwave popcorn.

Meanwhile, partial hydrogenation of linoleic acid normally has a major
product being trans-octadecenoic acid. In fact, the only possible
trans fatty acids available from partial hydrogenation of linoleic acid
are two double-bond-location isomers of trans-octadecenoic acid.
Linoleic acid is a major polyunsaturated fatty acid in the
polyunsaturated-rich vegetable oils mainly subject to partial
hydrogenation, such as soybean oil - in fact the prime textbook one. If
your microwave popcorn has any of the common partially hydrogenated
vegetable oils used in North America, it's probably got trans-octadecenoic
acid in its fatty acid content.

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein > wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote

>>>>>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room temp.

>>>>> You make that claim - can you cite this
>>>>> being true of actual fats in common usage?

>>>> YOU made the original claim.

>>>> YOU get to do that citing.

>>>> THATS how it works.

>>> Cis-octadecenoic acid melting point: 16 degrees C
>>> Trans-octadecenoic acid melting point: 44 degrees C

>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
>>> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
>>> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM

>>> (split into 3 lines)

>> No need to split it with a decent news reader
>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM

> My favorite newsreader is slrn and does not give me the option.

Then you should get a better one.

> I use it because it is in the same account as my e-mail account,
> on a Unix machine at the other end of a telnet connection, with
> my end being a non-Unix machine. Great virus safety!

Anyone with a clue uses a decent anti virus that stops viruses.

>> Pity that that aint used in microwave popcorn.

>> Try again.

> Your discussion was on liquidness or lack thereof of trans and non-trans fats.

In the context of the microwave popcorn being discussed.

> That is not limited to microwave popcorn.

Wrong.

> Meanwhile, partial hydrogenation of linoleic acid normally
> has a major product being trans-octadecenoic acid.

Irrelevant to the microwave popcorn being discussed.

> In fact, the only possible trans fatty acids available from partial hydrogenation
> of linoleic acid are two double-bond-location isomers of trans-octadecenoic acid.

Irrelevant to the microwave popcorn being discussed.

> Linoleic acid is a major polyunsaturated fatty acid in the
> polyunsaturated-rich vegetable oils mainly subject to partial
> hydrogenation, such as soybean oil - in fact the prime textbook one.

Irrelevant to the microwave popcorn being discussed.

> If your microwave popcorn has any of the common partially
> hydrogenated vegetable oils used in North America, it's
> probably got trans-octadecenoic acid in its fatty acid content.

No reason to hydrogenate what is used in microwave popcorn.

Don Klipstein wrote:
> In article >, Rod Speed wrote:
>>Don Klipstein > wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>
>>>>>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are liquid at room temp.
>>
>>>>> You make that claim - can you cite this
>>>>> being true of actual fats in common usage?
>>
>>>> YOU made the original claim.
>>
>>>> YOU get to do that citing.
>>
>>>> THATS how it works.
>>
>>> Cis-octadecenoic acid melting point: 16 degrees C
>>> Trans-octadecenoic acid melting point: 44 degrees C
>>
>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
>>> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
>>> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>
>>> (split into 3 lines)
>>
>>No need to split it with a decent news reader
>>http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>
> My favorite newsreader is slrn and does not give me the option. I use
> it because it is in the same account as my e-mail account, on a Unix
> machine at the other end of a telnet connection, with my end being a
> non-Unix machine. Great virus safety!

What should hve been done in the first place:

http://tinyurl.com/2vnx3v


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

In article >, Rod Speed wrote in part:
>Don Klipstein > wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>
>>>> (split into 3 lines)
>
>>> No need to split it with a decent news reader
>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>
>> My favorite newsreader is slrn and does not give me the option.
>
>Then you should get a better one.
>
>> I use it because it is in the same account as my e-mail account,
>> on a Unix machine at the other end of a telnet connection, with
>> my end being a non-Unix machine. Great virus safety!
>
>Anyone with a clue uses a decent anti virus that stops viruses.

Pity that the best antivirus software can hardly hold a candle to a
telnet connection to a remote account on a Unix machine from a non-Unix
one! (Both ends have antivirus software anyway for that matter)

I maintain a barrier that does a good job of blocking viruses newer than
antivirus software updates!

- Don Klipstein )

Don Klipstein > wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote

>>>>> (split into 3 lines)

>>>> No need to split it with a decent news reader
>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM

>>> My favorite newsreader is slrn and does not give me the option.

>> Then you should get a better one.

>>> I use it because it is in the same account as my e-mail account,
>>> on a Unix machine at the other end of a telnet connection, with
>>> my end being a non-Unix machine. Great virus safety!

>> Anyone with a clue uses a decent anti virus that stops viruses.

> Pity that the best antivirus software can hardly hold a candle to a telnet
> connection to a remote account on a Unix machine from a non-Unix one!

Dont need to bother with candles when any decent antivirus avoids any virus infection.

> (Both ends have antivirus software anyway for that matter)

Then you are wasting your time playing silly buggers like that.

> I maintain a barrier that does a good job of blocking
> viruses newer than antivirus software updates!

Anyone with a clue doesnt waste their time farting around so
mindlessly and gets to use a decent news reader as a real bonus.

Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> Don Klipstein wrote:
>> In article >, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>>>
>>>>>>> You've mangled that too. Both the trans and cis forms are
>>>>>>> liquid at room temp.
>>>
>>>>>> You make that claim - can you cite this
>>>>>> being true of actual fats in common usage?
>>>
>>>>> YOU made the original claim.
>>>
>>>>> YOU get to do that citing.
>>>
>>>>> THATS how it works.
>>>
>>>> Cis-octadecenoic acid melting point: 16 degrees C
>>>> Trans-octadecenoic acid melting point: 44 degrees C
>>>
>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
>>>> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
>>>> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>>
>>>> (split into 3 lines)
>>>
>>> No need to split it with a decent news reader
>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>
>> My favorite newsreader is slrn and does not give me the option. I
>> use it because it is in the same account as my e-mail account, on a
>> Unix machine at the other end of a telnet connection, with my end
>> being a non-Unix machine. Great virus safety!
>
> What should hve been done in the first place:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2vnx3v

The mindlessly paranoid refuse to use those because they cant see what it turns into.

Rod Speed wrote:
> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>> Don Klipstein wrote:
>>> In article >, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote

>>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
>>>>> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
>>>>> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>>>
>>>>> (split into 3 lines)
>>>>
>>>> No need to split it with a decent news reader
>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>
>> What should hve been done in the first place:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2vnx3v
>
> The mindlessly paranoid refuse to use those because they cant see what
> it turns into.

Sure. Actually, I'd not have a problem using a URL database that gave
the original URL and a user option to continue or run away (not that I
need that myself), but I shan't until there's a Firefox extension that
does that as slickly as the TinyURL extension does. I'm at least not
aware of any such animal.


--
Blinky RLU 297263
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

Blinky the Shark > wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>>> Don Klipstein wrote:
>>>> In article >, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Don Klipstein > wrote
>
>>>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...28&dq=%22trans
>>>>>> octadecenoic%22+acid+%22melting+point%22&source=we b&ots=QydaH-YRdZ&sig=
>>>>>> agQkRFqc_t77zVPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>>>>
>>>>>> (split into 3 lines)
>>>>>
>>>>> No need to split it with a decent news reader
>>>>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OTy...VPDfBQXWEDUtRM
>>>
>>> What should hve been done in the first place:
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2vnx3v
>>
>> The mindlessly paranoid refuse to use those because they cant see
>> what it turns into.

> Sure. Actually, I'd not have a problem using a URL database that
> gave the original URL and a user option to continue or run away

It isnt that simple when clicked on from a newsgroup post.

> (not that I need that myself), but I shan't until there's a Firefox
> extension that does that as slickly as the TinyURL extension
> does. I'm at least not aware of any such animal.

Doesnt help if you click on a link in a newsgroup post anyway.