"Sam E" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:13:12 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Dave Martindale" > wrote in message
...
>>> "Bill" > writes:
>>>
>>>>Well I installed a woodstove and tried cooking on it. I cooked eggs and
>>>>noticed they came out perfect!
>>>
>>>>When I cook eggs on my electric range, they will tend to stick to the
>>>>bottom
>>>>of the pan or overheat / underheat.
>>>
>>>>Anyway the difference between cooking on the woodstove and on my
>>>>electric
>>>>range is amazing! The difference of course is the "steady heat" of the
>>>>wood
>>>>stove as opposed to the "on/off" heat of the electric range.
>>>
>>> There are many possible explanations for this. Perhaps you just pay
>>> more attention when cooking on the woodstove. Perhaps the large flat
>>> iron cooking surface of the wood stove heats your pan more evenly than a
>>> coil element on the electric stove. Or maybe the cyclic temperature
>>> variations do matter. You haven't provided any evidence for the latter
>>> explanation.
>>>
>>> It would be interesting to measure the amount of temperature swing at
>>> the surface of your electric element as the element cycles on and off.
>>> Then measure it on the inside surface of the pan. I'll bet the
>>> temperature range is not very large.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>>Coming to conclusions while missing 90% of the pertinent information is a
>>great American pastime, apparently.
>>
>
> That's normal. It's a lot easier to ignore 90% or more of what you
> heard, and make up stuff to fill the gap.


"Contrary to recorded weather data from 7 independent scientifical sources,
and reports from over 4,300 farmers, we has conclusiatious evidences that Mr
Al Qaeda is responsiblatious for the shortage of them brocollis from
California during the last past two or couples of weeks". - George W. Bush

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 02:04:41 GMT, "wff_ng_7" >
wrote:

>"ms_peacock" > wrote:
>> I've had numerous electric stoves over the years and the elements don't go
>> on and off on any of them. They already use a "dimmer switch." The heat
>> is constant at whatever setting you put the dial.
>>
>> I had one stove that had an element that was thermostatically controlled
>> and it did vary the heat. But it didn't just go off and on, as the temp
>> of the food came up the element would lower the heat output to maintain
>> the temp. I still miss that stove, it also had an oven and a half.
>
>In reality, those electric stoves were going on and off the whole time, and
>you never noticed! If you have a very quiet kitchen and you listen very
>carefully, you can hear the switch turn the burner off and on. The "dimmer
>switch" is adjusting how long the "on" time is versus the "off" time. The
>owner's manual on my 1982 GE electric range even mentioned the noise the
>switch made in the troubleshooting section, to put to rest the minds of
>people who noticed the sound.
>
>Even dimmer switches for lights are in a way turning the light on and off to
>adjust the light intensity. The dimmer switch is varying the amount of time
>the light bulb filament is turned on versus turned off. Only it is happening
>60 times a second versus every several seconds as on an electric stove
>burner. The principle is basically the same, but on dimmers the controls are
>solid state electronics, while on a stove burner the controls are
>mechanical. It would be costly to make a solid state electronic control to
>handle the power required for a surface burner. Most light dimmers are 300
>watts capacity. A surface burner is about 2,500 watts.
>
>This cycling of the burner is different than thermostatic control. What it
>is doing is keeping the burner on for a percentage of the total time, giving
>a proportional heat output, regardless of how hot the pan ends up getting.
>There are thermostatically controlled surface burners out there, but they
>are not that common.

The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
"med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off"). BTW, it also had a 120V
outlet on it. I guess people usually didn't have enough countertop
outlets then.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

Ï "Bill" > Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when you
> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
>
> This would be sort of like a dimmer switch for a light where you can
adjust
> how much light is output from the bulb.
>
> The way electric ranges work now is they go on and off, on and off.
>
> Less heat means the "burner" goes on for a little while, then off for
quite
> awhile. Then with more heat, the "burner" is on for a long time, then off
> for a little amount of time.
>
Well, traditionally stoves (or ranges) here in EU (certainly in Greece) have
3 elements for each hob, and a dial for each hob, that is numbered from 0 to
3 with 1/2 subdivisions(thus 0-1/2-1-11/2...)and the three elements are
turned on and off, respectively.So, for full heat, all 3.For 1/2 set.the
smallest one etc.
> With a gas range, you can adjust the heat so it is constant - no off and
on.
> Seems they could do this with an electric range as well....
>
>

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr

Ï "Sharon" > Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
> In article >, Peter A
> writes:
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >> Does anyone manufacture a "variable heat" electric range, where when
you
> >> select the heat setting, it would have a constant heat at a certain
> >> temperature? (Like you can do with a gas range...)
> >>
> > Why do you want this? The on/off technique works just fine in my
> > experience. The thermal mass of the burner and the pan even things out.
> > For example, when I am simmering a soup on low, the soup simmers at an
> > even, constant rate even though the element is on for 2 seconds then off
> > for 10 (more or less).
>
> I'm with the OP. I was just commenting that this kind of thing would
> be nice to my husband yesterday as I was making our week's dinners. We
have a
> ****-poor glass-topped electric stove. We think it's crappy because it
might
> be low-watt, but don't know for sure. It can't boil a gallon of water
unless
> it's tightly lidded, and even then it takes over a half an hour.
> Last weekend, I was making a roux, and I really noticed how poor it is
> there too. I had trouble getting the correct temp to cook the roux - it
cooked
> fine while the burner was on, but all cooking stopped when the burner
cycled
> off. We HATE the thing.
Well, excuse me, but in EU (at least in Greece)glass-topped electric stoves
are state-of-the-art, and very expensive, and very robust, and efficient,
too.The traditional stove has four hobs with the elements inside a ring of
iron (not steel),ours is glass-topped (or better, glass-ceramic, and cost
like, 700 euros, while a cheap iron one, like 400-500 euros.

Mark Lloyd > writes:

>The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
>thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
>rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
>"med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off").

My mother used to have a stove like that, but with knobs instead of
buttons. The elements in that stove were solid metal discs, not coils,
and they had multiple resistances built into them. The multi-position
switch achieved its different heat outputs by connecting various
combinations of terminals on the element to the 240 V line (it might
have used 120 V in some of the lower positions too; I no longer
remember).

So this stove did have several different continuous heat outputs,
without switching the element on and off. But modern stoves with
"infinite heat" controls are better. The coil element has low mass and
heats up (or cools down) faster, and you can have almost infinite
control over the amount of heat via the modulating control.

Most other writers in this thread are talking about infinite-heat
controls on a modern burner (or about the oven, which is
thermostatically controlled).

Dave

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:58:55 -0600, Chris Friesen
> wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:22:38 -0600, "Steve Barker"
>> > wrote:
>
>>>I think the main question here is why would anyone who does any serious
>>>amount of cooking want an electric range to begin with? No real cooking can
>>>be done on them.
>
>> Nonsense. Maybe 50 years ago, but today electric smoothtops have
>> just as much heat and control as gas.
>
>There's an element of truth to it.

Nice pun.

>Unless you use an induction element,
>you cannot turn an electric element *down* quickly...it takes some time
>for the heat in the element to dissipate.

I did mention smoothtop. The disk on a good quality pan will hold
heat longer than the glass. The element is on or off.

>Also, commercial-grade gas ranges have heat outputs that far exceed
>electric ranges (and indeed most residential gas ranges). This can be
>useful for some types of cooking.

This is very true. But I don't think the OP was referring to a
commercial setting.

Lou

"Mark Lloyd" > wrote:
> The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
> thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
> rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
> "med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off"). BTW, it also had a 120V
> outlet on it. I guess people usually didn't have enough countertop
> outlets then.

I know I've lived on one or more houses as a kid that had the push button
controls for the surface elements. The last one I remember my parents
replaced in 1965, so the stove must have been from the 1950s or even late
1940s. I think push button controls were gone by the mid 1960s.

I do have a 120V outlet on my gas stove, circa 1973. It comes in handy since
the nearest outlet on that side of the kitchen is six feet away. The house
was built in 1963.

"Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" > wrote:
> Well, traditionally stoves (or ranges) here in EU (certainly in Greece)
> have
> 3 elements for each hob, and a dial for each hob, that is numbered from 0
> to
> 3 with 1/2 subdivisions(thus 0-1/2-1-11/2...)and the three elements are
> turned on and off, respectively.So, for full heat, all 3.For 1/2 set.the
> smallest one etc.

They used to have burners with multiple elements here in the USA, but I
think they disappeared by the mid 1970s. I have a catalog of home and
apartment repair parts that lists a few replacement burners that have two
elements in the burner. The listings for these say for GE through 1975.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:22:40 GMT, "wff_ng_7" >
wrote:

>"Mark Lloyd" > wrote:
>> The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
>> thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
>> rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
>> "med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off"). BTW, it also had a 120V
>> outlet on it. I guess people usually didn't have enough countertop
>> outlets then.
>
>I know I've lived on one or more houses as a kid that had the push button
>controls for the surface elements. The last one I remember my parents
>replaced in 1965, so the stove must have been from the 1950s or even late
>1940s. I think push button controls were gone by the mid 1960s.
>
>I do have a 120V outlet on my gas stove, circa 1973. It comes in handy since
>the nearest outlet on that side of the kitchen is six feet away. The house
>was built in 1963.

My grandmother got this stove in 1967, but it was used at the time.
I'm not sure exactly when it was made, but I'd guess around 1960.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

In article >,
"Matthew L. Martin" > wrote:

> wrote:
>
> >
> > Exactly right. I think what the OP might want to look at is
> > an inductive cooktop. Expensive, and I'm not sure how they
> > achieve their variable heat settings, it may just be a duty cycle
> > switching type of control also, but they are supposed to have
> > very steady heat control.
>
> The very few experiences I have had with induction cook tops showed me
> that they have an on/off duty cycle that controls the heat production.
>
> Matthew



The Luxine units claim to cycle at variable power so even though they
pulse off and on have greater range of control.

This is illustrated by them in their "chocolate test" where they melt a
bar of chocolate on the lowest setting of their burner vs that of a
competitor. The competitors seized the chocolate because it was pulsing
at 3500 Watts while the Luxine did not because it was pulsing at 700 W.
I think Viking markets Luxine induction units so that might be a place
to research this.

The above is found buried in the text of this article:

http://www.appliancedesign.com/CDA/A...0VgnVCM100000f
932a8c0____

I do not know it this applies to all units or the specific model in the
article. The OP might want to call Viking.

Roland

Mark Lloyd wrote:
> The old electric stove my grandmother had had one burner that was
> thermostatically controlled. The other burners didn't have knobs, but
> rows of buttons (labeled something like "high", 'med-high", "medium",
> "med-low", "low", "simmer", "warm", "off").

GE and Hotpoint ranges of the 50s and 60s typically had dual coil
surface units with five switched heat levels:

High -- 240V across both coils in parallel
Second -- 240V across one coil
Third -- 240V across both coils in series
Low -- 120V across one coil
Warm -- 120V across both coils in series

The "infinite level" time regulated controls in modern ranges require
much less wiring than the old style (less cost) and provide more user
control.

I grew up in a house built in the early 1970s that had a four burner
General Electric cooktop with a push button control mounted on the wall
behind it. Each burner had eight or so buttons to regulate its heat
output. When I visited last Thanksgiving, it was still in service.

"wff_ng_7" > wrote in
news:kDsAh.3688$Aa5.1057@trnddc01:
> I know I've lived on one or more houses as a kid that had the push
> button controls for the surface elements. The last one I remember my
> parents replaced in 1965, so the stove must have been from the 1950s
> or even late 1940s. I think push button controls were gone by the mid
> 1960s.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 18:15:00 -0500, "Jean B." > wrote:

>Lou Decruss wrote:
>> Nonsense. Maybe 50 years ago, but today electric smoothtops have
>> just as much heat and control as gas.
>>
>> Lou
>
>They'd have to be considerably better than mine is! Granted,
>mine is ca 7 years old....

This one is Whirlpool. Almost as old as yours. We can't sell our
house so we're frequently using 2 kitchens. The new one has the
smoothtop and it's a much better than the gas.

Sorry yours isn't so hot.

Lou

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...

-snip-

> Microwave ovens work the same way, although I have some vague
> recollection that some fancy models have variable power.

I recently purchased a new microwave that has variable output power (labeled
as "inverter technology"). It was sub $100 US so I wouldn't call it
"fancy". It has 4 power ranges and uses duty cycle control between the
power ranges to regulate the 10 available power settings. It is FAR
superior at the lower power settings. When defrosting or cooking on low, my
old microwave would singe and pause repeatedly. Cycling 1/4 power more
often yields MUCH better results.

The new microwave also behaves much better on my small backup generator -
conventional microwaves have really poor power factor AND significant even
order harmonics, both not appreciated by generator voltage regulators. The
even order harmonics are from the voltage doubler magnetron circuit. On one
half of the line waveform, the diode charges the cap up. On the other half
cycle, it fires the magnetron with the cap in series with the line voltage.
Since the back EMF when charging the cap is not equal to the fire voltage of
the magnetron minus the cap charge, the waveform is highly asymmetrical.