"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> Yes, when the news came out that margarine is not good for
> you, my poor stepmother just cried. The news came out soon
> after my father died of heart disease. She'd been feeding him
> margarine rather than butter because, you know, it was better for
> him.

Oh I am so sorry to hear that We all make our decisions on the knowledge
available at the time.

<Alan > wrote

> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:22:12 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:

>>I will say that I did know about lard and piecrusts. I don't know if
>>from here, or from my ex mil? I forget. The concept seemed strange
>>to me, animal products in, say, an apple pie, but I have heard that.

> Remember that it is only in the last century that there was
> any substitute for naturally occurring fats. Lard was the
> only pure fat available to most people. And butter was the
> only, er, butter that was available to most people.

By the time I came along, no lard, and there was that margarine.

Here's what I grew up knowing about lard. Someone fat was
a lardass or a tub of lard. No, I didn't call anyone that, I just
mean those were the uses of the word lard I'd heard of.

> Farmers always used lard and butter because that's all there
> was. And they were sold in cities for the same reason.
>
> Margarine only began to be popular after/during WW II, and
> faced lots of resistance from the dairy lobby. I remember
> that, for example, you couldn't sell margarine that was
> colored yellow. You got a transparent pouch of white
> margarine, with a little yellow "pill" of yellow dye that
> you could break, and then knead through the margarine to
> make it yellow!

I have heard of that. Dairy lobby must have been overruled
at some point, because I don't remember any white margarine.

> Vegetable fats are a fairly recent invention, but in the few
> generations that they have been used, most people have
> forgotten (or never learned about) lard.

It's true.

> It is a classic truth that pastries made with lard are the
> flakiest and tenderest of all. Considering that this would
> only make up a small part of a person's fat intake, perhaps
> we should return to using lard -- it is probably healthier
> than trans fats, and it certainly makes better pastries!

I am with you on that, though perhaps not for bread.

(sorry, I didn't realize this thread was crossposted until just now)

nancy

"Ophelia" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> Yes, when the news came out that margarine is not good for
>> you, my poor stepmother just cried. The news came out soon
>> after my father died of heart disease. She'd been feeding him
>> margarine rather than butter because, you know, it was better for
>> him.
>
> Oh I am so sorry to hear that We all make our decisions on the
> knowledge available at the time.

Oh, thank you, Ophelia, it was heartbreaking. She wanted to do
the best for him. You couldn't tell her she did what she thought
was right. What if, I guess.

nancy

Alan wrote:
>>
> Remember that it is only in the last century that there was
> any substitute for naturally occurring fats. Lard was the
> only pure fat available to most people.

And suet. And just to add a little fat to the fire, so to speak, I
should explain a few things for those who are unfamiliar with using
animal fats in cooking. Lard is available in two grades. "Leaf lard" is
the highest grade. Wikipedia says, "Lard may be rendered from the fatty
tissue just above the tenderloin or under the skin of the pig. The
highest grade of lard, known as "leaf lard", is obtained from the leaf
fat that surrounds the kidneys. The lowest grade is obtained from around
the small intestines." Leaf lard is the first choice for piecrust, if
you can find it.

Similarly, kidney fat is the highest grade of suet from a beef carcass.
Rendered beef or mutton fat is tallow, used mostly for soap and various
industrial applications.

I suppose mutton fat is used for cooking in places where there are lots
of sheep. Anyone want to comment on that? I think of it as too strongly
scented for general cooking use, though.

> And butter was the
> only, er, butter that was available to most people.

Not really. We've used the verb _to butter_, meaning to spread stuff on
a surface, for a long time. So even though the word butter originally
referred to dairy butter, people have used other butters (apple, peanut,
etc.) for a long time; masons butter bricks with mortar (and then butt
them, but that's from another root, I think); caterers butter sandwiches
with mayonnaise; etc. However, your point is taken--there was no margarine.

>
> Farmers always used lard and butter because that's all there
> was. And they were sold in cities for the same reason.

And suet. And goose fat, duck fat, and chicken fat.

>
> Margarine only began to be popular after/during WW II, and
> faced lots of resistance from the dairy lobby. I remember
> that, for example, you couldn't sell margarine that was
> colored yellow. You got a transparent pouch of white
> margarine, with a little yellow "pill" of yellow dye that
> you could break, and then knead through the margarine to
> make it yellow!

That varied from state to state. I know that by the 1950s that was not
true in Ohio (the margarine in the store was yellow), but it was still
true in Wisconsin. I don't know that it was ever true at the federal level.

>
> Vegetable fats are a fairly recent invention, but in the few
> generations that they have been used, most people have
> forgotten (or never learned about) lard.

In the US, pig farming fifty years ago was associated with rural poverty
(maybe not in reality but at least in the minds of upwardly mobile
suburban types). Crisco was therefore "cleaner" in their minds. How much
of this was cynical marketing hype and how much was a social meme I
wouldn't venture to guess.

>
> It is a classic truth that pastries made with lard are the
> flakiest and tenderest of all. Considering that this would
> only make up a small part of a person's fat intake, perhaps
> we should return to using lard -- it is probably healthier
> than trans fats, and it certainly makes better pastries!

Lard has to be a lot better for you (certainly better tasting) than the
"Danish pastry shortening" used by bakers, which is made from tropical
fats (palm, coconut). That's the stuff that leaves a film clinging to
the roof of your mouth after you eat a commercial Danish pastry.


Dick

"Dick Margulis" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia,
>
> In large parts of the US, lard is rarely used. I'd guess that more than
> half of the US population have never bought a pound of it (although
> they've probably consumed it as an invisible ingredient often enough) and
> wouldn't know good lard from bad. The reasons are historical and cultural,
> but suffice it to say that when you mention lard in polite company over
> here, you often get quizzical looks from people (as in "I didn't think you
> were THAT sort of person!").

LOL, I hope you are going to explain why??

There's a certain social
> stigma attached to it, in other words. I don't think the lard much cares
> about social stigma one way or t'other and it just goes on being lard,
> waiting for folks to get over their hangup about it. Obviously, those who
> keep kosher or halal homes don't use it, but they can substitute goose
> fat, duck fat, or, as a last resort, chicken fat.

We buy lard in large packet in the supermarket Goose fat too but I
haven't seen duck or chicken fat. We can also buy what we call 'dripping'
which it the fat from pigs

Thank you for your explanation Dick)

Ophelia wrote:

>
> We buy lard in large packet in the supermarket Goose fat too but I
> haven't seen duck or chicken fat. We can also buy what we call 'dripping'
> which it the fat from pigs
>

The lard available in supermarkets here is in one-pound blocks, in
cartons, like butter. It is preserved with BHT and it is not leaf lard.
If you want that, you have to buy the fat from the butcher and render it
yourself (or use as is).

In 1890, there were more geese than chickens in the US. Now, I'd guess
95% of the American public has never tasted goose. You can only buy it
for about a week or two around the holidays. Goose fat is only available
by buying a goose and rendering the fat yourself. Similarly, duck fat is
home-rendered. Duck is readily available in supermarkets but still
something that most people never buy. You can actually buy rendered
chicken fat in the supermarket. It comes in plastic tubs.

"Dick Margulis" > wrote in message
...
> Alan wrote:
> Similarly, kidney fat is the highest grade of suet from a beef carcass.

Suet is still used here for wonderfully light dumplings.

We can buy the suet mixed with flour in packets.

"Dick Margulis" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>
>> We buy lard in large packet in the supermarket Goose fat too but I
>> haven't seen duck or chicken fat. We can also buy what we call
>> 'dripping'
>> which it the fat from pigs
>>
>
> The lard available in supermarkets here is in one-pound blocks, in
> cartons, like butter. It is preserved with BHT and it is not leaf lard. If
> you want that, you have to buy the fat from the butcher and render it
> yourself (or use as is).
>
> In 1890, there were more geese than chickens in the US. Now, I'd guess 95%
> of the American public has never tasted goose. You can only buy it for
> about a week or two around the holidays. Goose fat is only available by
> buying a goose and rendering the fat yourself. Similarly, duck fat is
> home-rendered. Duck is readily available in supermarkets but still
> something that most people never buy. You can actually buy rendered
> chicken fat in the supermarket. It comes in plastic tubs.

Thanks Dick I can see we have things to learn from each other

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 07:45:47 -0500, Dick Margulis
> wrote:

>In large parts of the US, lard is rarely used. I'd guess that more than
>half of the US population have never bought a pound of it (although
>they've probably consumed it as an invisible ingredient often enough)
>and wouldn't know good lard from bad. The reasons are historical and
>cultural, but suffice it to say that when you mention lard in polite
>company over here, you often get quizzical looks from people (as in "I
>didn't think you were THAT sort of person!"). There's a certain social
>stigma attached to it, in other words. I don't think the lard much cares
>about social stigma one way or t'other and it just goes on being lard,
>waiting for folks to get over their hangup about it. Obviously, those
>who keep kosher or halal homes don't use it, but they can substitute
>goose fat, duck fat, or, as a last resort, chicken fat.

Heh. When my housemate moved in, she said that she knew she was in
the right place when she saw the box of lard in my fridge. I also
render my own. Mind, I don't use a lot of it anymore than I use a
load of butter, generally speaking. But some things just need it, and
it ain't fittin' to use anything else. If it ain't fittin', it ain't
fittin'!

TammyM, spending the day making pork and chicken tamales with
home-rendered yard and fresh masa - thanks for the tip, ChristineD!
La Superior does indeed carry fresh masa.

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:47:36 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> I don't know about anyone else, I'm so jaded by 'this is bad for you'
>> reports and the subsequent lab produced replacements. Having said
>> that, I do use Crisco on occasion.
>>
>As do I on occasion (banana bread, for example) and I believe everything
>in moderation or just occasional use won't kill us.
>I can buy butter for a reasonable price year round so that's never been
>an issue with me. I don't render lard because I don't use enough of any
>fat to make it worth my efforts at this point. If I were doing a large
>tamale making party I probably would take the time. I'd rather have
>excellent results using lard or butter, than mediocre tasting foods
>using substitutes.
>I once held a holiday cooking exchange party in the neighborhood and
>recall my surprise when one woman from AZ brought "biscochito" cookies
>that contained lard. They were delicious.

You can freeze lard. Jamie Utter and I were having this conversation
recently. To quote Jamie "homemade stock and homemade lard in the
freezer are like money in the bank." I have a BIG freezer and I make
sure to allocate space for stuff like this.

TammyM

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:05:08 -0500, Dick Margulis
> wrote:

>Nancy Young wrote:
>> "Ophelia" > wrote
>>
>>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
<snip>
>> Regardless, I've given up any effort trying to explain to her what
>> Crisco is, or what she might use instead. It's a solid vegetable fat.
>> nancy
<snip>
> It's only in the last few years that we've
>started taking a second look at the logic. (There is not necessarily a
>direct causal relationship between consuming animal fats and developing
>high cholesterol; it's more complicated than that.) And so now it's
>trans-fats that are the bad guys. If you'll recall, they used to be the
>good guys.

Quite. I had a boyfriend who was rabidly anti-butter and slathered
margarine on his toast with wild abandon. I would love to have seen
his face when the transfat news came out. I'm not usually so mean,
but this was most decidedly NOT a good guy :-)

>However, a lot of smaller bakeries (diners with homemade pies, for
>example, and whatever neighborhood bakeries may still be left) still use
>lard in piecrusts, because you really can't beat it for that. Lard is
>also the fat of choice for greasing bread pans and baking sheets,
>assuming it's not a kosher bakery. As a bread ingredient, though, I'd
>agree with you that US bakers, for the most part, don't use lard and
>haven't in a long time.

I rarely buy commercial baked goods or chips/crackers anything like
that. I prepare MOST of my meals and don't rely on frozen stuff or
convenience food, other than the occasional frozen pizza ;-) I don't
worry about the fat issue much as I decide what goes into 90-95% of
what I consume. And I like it that way! YMMV.

TammyM, not judgin', just sayin'

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:05:43 -0600, Alan wrote:

>Remember that it is only in the last century that there was
>any substitute for naturally occurring fats. Lard was the
>only pure fat available to most people. And butter was the
>only, er, butter that was available to most people.
>
>Farmers always used lard and butter because that's all there
>was. And they were sold in cities for the same reason.
>
>Margarine only began to be popular after/during WW II, and
>faced lots of resistance from the dairy lobby. I remember
>that, for example, you couldn't sell margarine that was
>colored yellow. You got a transparent pouch of white
>margarine, with a little yellow "pill" of yellow dye that
>you could break, and then knead through the margarine to
>make it yellow!
<snip>
If you want to read a real eye-opener, get yourself a copy of "Fat
Land: How Americans Came to be the Fattest People on Earth" (or
something like that!) He goes into great detail about the correlation
between transfats AND high fructose corn syrup and many current health
problems that plague Americans (and others) like obesity, high
cholesterol, etc. After I read that book, I went to my local grocery
store and tried to find a loaf of bread that had neither transfats nor
HFCS. I read labels for nearly 10 minutes and out of about 20
different loaves I picked up, only ONE was free of those ingredients.
I've been making my bread ever since (in a bread machine, I'm
bread-making challenged).

Now mind you, I have no such biased feelings about gin, wine and
cheese and they're not all that great for you either :-) But whatta
way to go!

TammyM

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:20:20 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>
>"Ophelia" > wrote
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>>> Yes, when the news came out that margarine is not good for
>>> you, my poor stepmother just cried. The news came out soon
>>> after my father died of heart disease. She'd been feeding him
>>> margarine rather than butter because, you know, it was better for
>>> him.
>>
>> Oh I am so sorry to hear that We all make our decisions on the
>> knowledge available at the time.
>
>Oh, thank you, Ophelia, it was heartbreaking. She wanted to do
>the best for him. You couldn't tell her she did what she thought
>was right. What if, I guess.

I'm sorry too, Nancy. Your poor stepmom, I'm sure her feelings of
guilt were enormous. That's a terribly heavy burden to place on
herself. I hope she's doing ok now?

hugs,
TammyM

TammyM, spending the day making pork and chicken tamales with
> home-rendered yard and fresh masa - thanks for the tip, ChristineD!
> La Superior does indeed carry fresh masa.

Hello Tammy!!!! I love all the porks of the earth, but I Am sure that your
pork it's the best!!!!! YUM YUM!!!!!!!

--
Merry Christmas
Pandora

On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:45:07 +0100, "Pandora" >
wrote:

>
>TammyM, spending the day making pork and chicken tamales with
>> home-rendered yard and fresh masa - thanks for the tip, ChristineD!
>> La Superior does indeed carry fresh masa.
>
>Hello Tammy!!!! I love all the porks of the earth, but I Am sure that your
>pork it's the best!!!!! YUM YUM!!!!!!!

Awwwww, thanks dear. I'm pretty fond of all the "porks on the earth
too" <g> I wish I could send you some tamales! Hey, if you make it
to the September 2007 cook-in, we'll make some together!

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Pandora,
TammyM

"TammyM" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 17:45:07 +0100, "Pandora" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>TammyM, spending the day making pork and chicken tamales with
>>> home-rendered yard and fresh masa - thanks for the tip, ChristineD!
>>> La Superior does indeed carry fresh masa.
>>
>>Hello Tammy!!!! I love all the porks of the earth, but I Am sure that your
>>pork it's the best!!!!! YUM YUM!!!!!!!
>
> Awwwww, thanks dear. I'm pretty fond of all the "porks on the earth
> too" <g> I wish I could send you some tamales! Hey, if you make it
> to the September 2007 cook-in, we'll make some together!

Yes!!!!! Ofcourse!!!!!!! Enjoy your porks and I will enjoy mines DDDDDDD
>
> Merry Christmas to you and yours, Pandora,
> TammyM

Thank you my dear
Pandora

TammyM wrote:
>
> TammyM, spending the day making pork and chicken tamales with
> home-rendered yard and fresh masa - thanks for the tip, ChristineD!
> La Superior does indeed carry fresh masa.

Let me know if you need the address...

...fred

"TammyM" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 08:05:43 -0600, Alan wrote:
> Now mind you, I have no such biased feelings about gin, wine and
> cheese and they're not all that great for you either :-) But whatta
> way to go!

Attagirl))))

Dick Margulis wrote:


> In large parts of the US, lard is rarely used. I'd guess that more
> than half of the US population have never bought a pound of it


I'm one, I've never bought lard and haven't bought solid shortening in
perhaps 20 years. For pie crusts or biscuits I use butter (formerly
margarine). For regular cooking it's olive or canola oil.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

Alan wrote:

>
> I forgot about all those other animal fats! I remember my
> Mom using lard. And I remember being the kid who loved to
> knead that white margarine into yellow margarine. But I'm
> too young to know about those other fats, except that I HAVE
> heard of them in reading about cooking!
>
> Alan Moorman
>

Umm, well, let's see. You've read about them, have you? <g>

In the 1970s I worked for about a year in a small, upscale butcher shop,
and people used to come in to ask for the kidney suet for their mince
pies (it's a required ingredient for true mincemeat). And my
refrigerator right now has a tub of goose fat (not much left from last
year's Christmas goose*) and a jar of duck fat (I buy duck breasts
throughout the year; the meat goes into various dishes and I render the
fat.) I don't use chicken schmalz, because my wife the Mayflower
descendant has expressed her general disinterest in and distaste for all
things culinary of the central and eastern European traditions; so the
dishes I'd use schmalz for are kind of off the menu except when she's
off on a speaking tour and I'm cooking for myself. But, as I said, I can
go to Stop & Shop and buy it anytime if I need it.

Dick

* Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter,
ready to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe:
Skin and joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an
alternative, but too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster,
a layer of sliced onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then
lay the joints on top of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's
old MagnaLite covered roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered,
produced a quart or so of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens
(sp?)--cracklings--most of which I ate while I was puttering in the
kitchen and the rest of which I mixed into a paté I made from the liver
for an hors d'oeuvre.

On 16 Dec 2006 09:05:47 -0800, "kuvasz guy" > wrote:

>
>TammyM wrote:
>>
>> TammyM, spending the day making pork and chicken tamales with
>> home-rendered yard and fresh masa - thanks for the tip, ChristineD!
>> La Superior does indeed carry fresh masa.
>
>Let me know if you need the address...

For La Superior?! It's right down the street :-)

TammyM

"Dick Margulis" > wrote in message
...
> Alan wrote:
>
>>
>> I forgot about all those other animal fats! I remember my
>> Mom using lard. And I remember being the kid who loved to
>> knead that white margarine into yellow margarine. But I'm
>> too young to know about those other fats, except that I HAVE
>> heard of them in reading about cooking!
>>
>> Alan Moorman
>>
>
> Umm, well, let's see. You've read about them, have you? <g>
>
> In the 1970s I worked for about a year in a small, upscale butcher shop,
> and people used to come in to ask for the kidney suet for their mince pies
> (it's a required ingredient for true mincemeat). And my refrigerator right
> now has a tub of goose fat (not much left from last year's Christmas
> goose*) and a jar of duck fat (I buy duck breasts throughout the year; the
> meat goes into various dishes and I render the fat.) I don't use chicken
> schmalz, because my wife the Mayflower descendant has expressed her
> general disinterest in and distaste for all things culinary of the central
> and eastern European traditions; so the dishes I'd use schmalz for are
> kind of off the menu except when she's off on a speaking tour and I'm
> cooking for myself. But, as I said, I can go to Stop & Shop and buy it
> anytime if I need it.
>
> Dick
>
> * Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
> not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter, ready
> to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe: Skin and
> joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an alternative, but
> too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster, a layer of sliced
> onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then lay the joints on top
> of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's old MagnaLite covered
> roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered, produced a quart or so
> of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens (sp?)--cracklings--most of which
> I ate while I was puttering in the kitchen and the rest of which I mixed
> into a paté I made from the liver for an hors d'oeuvre.

mmmmMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Dick Margulis wrote:

> * Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
> not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter,
> ready to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe:
> Skin and joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an
> alternative, but too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster,
> a layer of sliced onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then
> lay the joints on top of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's
> old MagnaLite covered roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered,
> produced a quart or so of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens
> (sp?)--cracklings--most of which I ate while I was puttering in the
> kitchen and the rest of which I mixed into a paté I made from the liver
> for an hors d'oeuvre.

Sounds lovely!!

As one of the token goyim that hang out at rec.humor.jewish, I think
it's gribbenes. As in "Never buy gribbenes from the Mohel!"

Dave

Dick Margulis wrote:
> Alan wrote:
>
> >
> > I forgot about all those other animal fats! I remember my
> > Mom using lard. And I remember being the kid who loved to
> > knead that white margarine into yellow margarine. But I'm
> > too young to know about those other fats, except that I HAVE
> > heard of them in reading about cooking!
> >
> > Alan Moorman
> >
>
> Umm, well, let's see. You've read about them, have you? <g>
>
> In the 1970s I worked for about a year in a small, upscale butcher shop,
> and people used to come in to ask for the kidney suet for their mince
> pies (it's a required ingredient for true mincemeat). And my
> refrigerator right now has a tub of goose fat (not much left from last
> year's Christmas goose*) and a jar of duck fat (I buy duck breasts
> throughout the year; the meat goes into various dishes and I render the
> fat.) I don't use chicken schmalz, because my wife the Mayflower
> descendant has expressed her general disinterest in and distaste for all
> things culinary of the central and eastern European traditions; so the
> dishes I'd use schmalz for are kind of off the menu except when she's
> off on a speaking tour and I'm cooking for myself. But, as I said, I can
> go to Stop & Shop and buy it anytime if I need it.
>
> Dick
>
> * Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
> not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter,
> ready to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe:
> Skin and joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an
> alternative, but too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster,
> a layer of sliced onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then
> lay the joints on top of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's
> old MagnaLite covered roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered,
> produced a quart or so of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens
> (sp?)--cracklings--most of which I ate while I was puttering in the
> kitchen and the rest of which I mixed into a paté I made from the liver
> for an hors d'oeuvre.

Only you would write something like this , Someone please take him
away in a straightjacket .

wrote:
> Dick Margulis wrote:
>> Alan wrote:
>>
>>> I forgot about all those other animal fats! I remember my
>>> Mom using lard. And I remember being the kid who loved to
>>> knead that white margarine into yellow margarine. But I'm
>>> too young to know about those other fats, except that I HAVE
>>> heard of them in reading about cooking!
>>>
>>> Alan Moorman
>>>
>> Umm, well, let's see. You've read about them, have you? <g>
>>
>> In the 1970s I worked for about a year in a small, upscale butcher shop,
>> and people used to come in to ask for the kidney suet for their mince
>> pies (it's a required ingredient for true mincemeat). And my
>> refrigerator right now has a tub of goose fat (not much left from last
>> year's Christmas goose*) and a jar of duck fat (I buy duck breasts
>> throughout the year; the meat goes into various dishes and I render the
>> fat.) I don't use chicken schmalz, because my wife the Mayflower
>> descendant has expressed her general disinterest in and distaste for all
>> things culinary of the central and eastern European traditions; so the
>> dishes I'd use schmalz for are kind of off the menu except when she's
>> off on a speaking tour and I'm cooking for myself. But, as I said, I can
>> go to Stop & Shop and buy it anytime if I need it.
>>
>> Dick
>>
>> * Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
>> not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter,
>> ready to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe:
>> Skin and joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an
>> alternative, but too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster,
>> a layer of sliced onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then
>> lay the joints on top of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's
>> old MagnaLite covered roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered,
>> produced a quart or so of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens
>> (sp?)--cracklings--most of which I ate while I was puttering in the
>> kitchen and the rest of which I mixed into a paté I made from the liver
>> for an hors d'oeuvre.
>
> Only you would write something like this , Someone please take him
> away in a straightjacket .
>

My jackets are all straight. I imagine you would look good in a
straitjacket, though. At least it would keep you from posting ad hominem
drivel.

Does anyone here know who this annoying idiot is? This is getting
tiresome, frankly.

Dick Margulis wrote:
> wrote:
> > Dick Margulis wrote:
> >> Alan wrote:
> >>
> >>> I forgot about all those other animal fats! I remember my
> >>> Mom using lard. And I remember being the kid who loved to
> >>> knead that white margarine into yellow margarine. But I'm
> >>> too young to know about those other fats, except that I HAVE
> >>> heard of them in reading about cooking!
> >>>
> >>> Alan Moorman
> >>>
> >> Umm, well, let's see. You've read about them, have you? <g>
> >>
> >> In the 1970s I worked for about a year in a small, upscale butcher shop,
> >> and people used to come in to ask for the kidney suet for their mince
> >> pies (it's a required ingredient for true mincemeat). And my
> >> refrigerator right now has a tub of goose fat (not much left from last
> >> year's Christmas goose*) and a jar of duck fat (I buy duck breasts
> >> throughout the year; the meat goes into various dishes and I render the
> >> fat.) I don't use chicken schmalz, because my wife the Mayflower
> >> descendant has expressed her general disinterest in and distaste for all
> >> things culinary of the central and eastern European traditions; so the
> >> dishes I'd use schmalz for are kind of off the menu except when she's
> >> off on a speaking tour and I'm cooking for myself. But, as I said, I can
> >> go to Stop & Shop and buy it anytime if I need it.
> >>
> >> Dick
> >>
> >> * Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
> >> not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter,
> >> ready to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe:
> >> Skin and joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an
> >> alternative, but too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster,
> >> a layer of sliced onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then
> >> lay the joints on top of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's
> >> old MagnaLite covered roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered,
> >> produced a quart or so of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens
> >> (sp?)--cracklings--most of which I ate while I was puttering in the
> >> kitchen and the rest of which I mixed into a paté I made from the liver
> >> for an hors d'oeuvre.
> >
> > Only you would write something like this , Someone please take him
> > away in a straightjacket .
> >
>
> My jackets are all straight. I imagine you would look good in a
> straitjacket, though. At least it would keep you from posting ad hominem
> drivel.
>
> Does anyone here know who this annoying idiot is? This is getting
> tiresome, frankly.

Dont like it when i poke you in the chest with my finger do you Dick?

Dont make me come over there and cause a scene

You baphomet worshipping gasbag !

On 17 Dec 2006 03:45:15 -0800, wrote:

>
>Dick Margulis wrote:

>> * Last year's Christmas goose was not a Christmas goose. That is, it was
>> not what you'd picture--a whole roast fowl glistening on a platter,
>> ready to be carved like a turkey. Instead, I used my old family recipe:
>> Skin and joint the goose. Put a layer of cabbage (sauerkraut is an
>> alternative, but too radical for Christmas) in the bottom of a roaster,
>> a layer of sliced onions, and a generous quantity of peppercorns; then
>> lay the joints on top of this and roast, covered--in my grandmother's
>> old MagnaLite covered roaster--basting occasionally. The skin, rendered,
>> produced a quart or so of pure white fat plus the ganse griebens
>> (sp?)--cracklings--most of which I ate while I was puttering in the
>> kitchen and the rest of which I mixed into a paté I made from the liver
>> for an hors d'oeuvre.
>
>Only you would write something like this , Someone please take him
>away in a straightjacket .


Dick, this recent flurry of posts is getting x-posted to abc and rfc,
too. Cooking is a broader topic than bread only, and some of it is
spilling over.

Not everyone understands about cross-posting and so we're getting a
bit more overflow than usual here in bread.

It'll pass. That's actually an interesting goose recipe up there.

I have 3 bowls of dough fermenting, so if you'll excuse me for
awhile....



Boron