Michael, you might want to read this article

read the whole thing.... the science and testing
of the neuropathy cocktail is provided at the end
of the article

http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dpn.htm

good luck!
kate
--
Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet
/server irc.undernet.org --- /join #Diabetic-Talk
More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/freeveggies.htm
I have no medical qualifications beyond my own
experience.
Choose your advisers carefully, because experience
can be
an expensive teacher.


"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
6.121...

> Right now I'm having an issue and have yet to
tell my doctor about it.
> I'll have to knuckle down and see him next week.
I think I am developing
> diabet neuropathay(sp) in my right leg. My left
leg is just beginning to
> do the same.
>
> Michael

In alt.support.diabetes L. Conrad > wrote:

> "Nicky" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:48:11 -0600, "L. Conrad" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Your replies will be printed and given to them this coming weekend.
>>
>> For the record, I'm doing the same thing as your BIL, and feel great.
>> But I think you're more likely to lose friends than change minds by
>> trying to get people to change their diet...

> Fear not, I will not cram the issue down their throats. We had a discussion
> at one meeting concerning diseases like diabetes and heart disease and how
> they're related to diet and exercise. I told them I would ask on the "the
> net" and report back to them. I come from a small town area where many
> people my age lack interest in learning how to use a computer. Using
> computers is another thing I am trying to get them interested in. <G>

>> How about working on the exercise part of the equation instead? A walk
>> an hour after eating can make a big difference to blood glucose
>> levels. So could a bowling game, or a swim, or a trip to the gym...

> That will also be covered this weekend. It appears that many older folks are
> no more interested in starting an exercise program then they are in changing
> their eating habits.

I'm 63 and all my life have always found it terribly hard to keep up
an exercise programme. I've joined a gym twice, and never went more
than four times.

So I get my exercise by taking advantage of opportunities in my
life. I do my food shopping by bicycle. I never take elevators. I
often run up & down stairs. I mow my lawns with a push mower. I mostly
avoid the use of power tools. And so on.

I recall when my mother was living in a retirement home. She lived up
one flight of stairs, but always took the elevator. After a few years
she was completely unable to get up that one flight. My sister wanted
to take her on a cruise, but couldn't afford cabins without stair only
access. So we persuaded Mum to start trying to go up the stairs. She
was to walk up as far as she could manage, sit down for a rest, then
walk back down & take the elevator up.

It took both of days to persuade her to try this. She was convinced
she was too old and it would just be a lot of miserable painful
struggling for nothing. I think she started just to stop us nagging
her :-) But once she started doing it she noticed that every few days
she'd manage to get up another step or two. After some weeks she began
to realise it was really going to be possible to work up to doing the
entire flight, and became really enthusiastic.

She went on the cruise, and managed the steep cabin staircases fine.

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" > wrote in message
> Right now I'm having an issue and have yet to tell my doctor about it.
> I'll have to knuckle down and see him next week. I think I am developing
> diabet neuropathay(sp) in my right leg. My left leg is just beginning to
> do the same.
>
> Michael

Sorry to read about your problems. My pains are just about all but gone.
Yesterday I took the longest walk in a months.
Today for the first time on my stationary bike I am advancing to the next
level.
Level 2 anyway . for me stretching and doing cardio really seem to be
working. the flexibility in my diabetic frozen shoulder is once again even
with the other and while I have to start working out as if i have never done
it before.
I am once again feeling great that I can work out.
if you doctor recommends certain exercise I strongly suggest you try your
best to do it.

Tom

L. Conrad wrote:

> Can a diabetic, already on insulin control their blood-sugar better by
> adopting a very low carb, or near no carb diet?

Yes. Large doses of carb require large doses of insulin to cover them;
the larger the doses, the more room for error. It's much easier to
avoid both hyperglycemia and hypoglycemia with the smallest possible
doses of both carbs and insulin. Tight control of blood glucose greatly
reduces the chances of diabetic complicaitons such as kidney damage,
heart disease, impotence, blindness and amputation.


> Can a diabetic who adopts a low carb diet improve their blood values and
> need LESS insulin?

Yes. Absolutely. Sugar raises blood triglycerides and LDL and lowers
HDL. Further, high bg causes blood proteins to become glycoslyated,
greatly increasing the risk of heart disease much moreso than cholesterol.


> Would the need for less insulin be better for their general health?

Yes. High serum levels of insulin have been implicated in a number of
serious diseases. There is no evidence that the injected stuff is any
healthier than the homemade kind. Reducing insulin usage is a good thing.


> Can a diabetic slowly lower their carb levels to see if less insulin is
> needed?

The diabetic would either need to understand insulin dosing themselves
to do this or need to work with a knowledgable doctor to do this safeky.
But with that caveat, the answer is most definitly yes.

I am a T2 diabetic and when I began on insulin this year, I was taking a
total of over 80 units of total basal and bolus insulin daily. Within a
few months with tight diet control and optimizing my blood glucose
control, I got that cut down to well under 60 units. I've recently
begun on Symlin and cut my doses down even further, to under 45 units.

Less insulin is good, presuming blood glucose control is tightly managed
on the lesser dose.

Really, it depends on what someone wants. I personally consider
skipping pasta and potatoes to be more than worthwhile to avoid another
heart attack. I have family members who do not consider it nearly as
worthwhile though.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Julie Bove wrote:

> The fact that a person does not use insulin does not
> mean in some way that they are better than a person who does not. People
> use it because they have to use it.

I completly agree, but would also add that reducing insulin usage is a
good thing for T2s. It is irrelevant whether the insulin being reduced
is the homegrown stuff or the injected stuff - reducing insulin is a
healthy choice regardless.


--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

L. Conrad wrote:

> One of these friends, a male age 62 lives on a high carbohydrate diet
> and drinks at least one six-pack of beer a night. He does not exercise
> due to the pain and swelling in his feet. Encouraging him to get on a
> better diet with less "sugars" has done no good. His feet are
> discolored and he was told he may lose one or both.

It's unlikely data will help. I have multiple diabetics in my family
and the majority of them are completly uninterested in changing their
diets.

My MIL can sit and explain to me how much her feet hurt at length, but
any hint that eating chocolate cake is probably not helpful just ****es
her off.

People have to decide for themselves.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

L. Conrad wrote:

> Thank you, I understand now. I was under the impression glucose was only
> converted from protein if there was almost no carbs in the diet. My
> mistake.

There's not an easy answer to this question.

It's extremely easy to make blanket statements like 50% of protein
converts to glucose, but it really depends. That is how much *can* be
converted, but the body has a lot of issues going on, how much it needs
glucose, what other needs for protein there are, the overall balance of
the diet, etc.

I have personally found I need to dose insulin in such a way that 1 g
carb = 2 g protein with the diet I eat, which is relatively low-carb
(around 50g net carb/day).

However, many others do just fine controlling their bg just accounting
for carb and ignoring protein entirely. It seems to me most T2s who are
not on insulin do not get a spike from protein & fat meals at all and
those T2s on insulin mostly do not have to account for protein the way I do.

Protein seems to be a *potential* source of glucose, but whether it
actually is so in any specific case seems very difficult to predict
short of testing.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/