we've recently acquired one and have no real complaints except...

it uses the powercup concentrators much faster than stated. I've cut a
used one up and it looks like nothing more that thick paper/thin
cardboard.

Any ideas what it really might be and if there is an acceptable (free)
substitute available.

no useful info > writes:

>we've recently acquired one and have no real complaints except...
>
>it uses the powercup concentrators much faster than stated.

I've found the same thing. But the popcorn is great :-)

>I've cut a
>used one up and it looks like nothing more that thick paper/thin
>cardboard.

I assume it's the same metalized paper as the bottom of the
microwave popcorn bags everyone else sells. It's there to
generate heat from the microwaves.

So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?
Then you wouldn't need a popper at all.

Or, how come nobody sells them with popcorn but no salt or oil?
The "low salt" stuff seems to have lots of salt in it. But the
"Powerpop" seems to work fine with no salt or oil.

>Any ideas what it really might be and if there is an acceptable (free)
>substitute available.

They're not really that expensive (maybe $0.20 each, plus shipping?)
How much would you spend for the microwave bags?

If you look these up on Amazon and click "buy used", there's
someone selling them in bulk at a discount (they're not really used).
No idea if they're reputable or not.

There's a microwave popper from Nordicware that doesn't appear to
use any kind of inserts (it's also cheaper). It looks like just a
plastic bowl with a lid. Has anyone tried it?

In article >,
(Ron Bean) wrote:

> no useful info > writes:
>


> >I've cut a
> >used one up and it looks like nothing more that thick paper/thin
> >cardboard.
>
> I assume it's the same metalized paper as the bottom of the
> microwave popcorn bags everyone else sells. It's there to
> generate heat from the microwaves.

My exploratory surgery on a used "cup" didn't show any metal. could be
there, just not easy to see. OTOH the instructions are pretty explicit
about the bottom of the PowerPop so I think the bottom has some "metal"
in it and the paper is more or less a sham. I'm not too far from
thinking that they make more money selling replacement cups than they do
from the popper.


>
> So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?
> Then you wouldn't need a popper at all.
>
> Or, how come nobody sells them with popcorn but no salt or oil?
> The "low salt" stuff seems to have lots of salt in it. But the
> "Powerpop" seems to work fine with no salt or oil.

Capitalism?



>
> >Any ideas what it really might be and if there is an acceptable (free)
> >substitute available.
>
> They're not really that expensive (maybe $0.20 each, plus shipping?)
> How much would you spend for the microwave bags?

I did find them at several sites and they are cheap enough, just
wondered if they were special.


>
> If you look these up on Amazon and click "buy used", there's
> someone selling them in bulk at a discount (they're not really used).
> No idea if they're reputable or not.


went there but didnt find them in bulk. boggles the mind to think of
buying a "bulk" load.

>
> There's a microwave popper from Nordicware that doesn't appear to
> use any kind of inserts (it's also cheaper). It looks like just a
> plastic bowl with a lid. Has anyone tried it?
>
>

thanks for the info

no useful info > writes:

>> I assume it's the same metalized paper as the bottom of the
>> microwave popcorn bags everyone else sells. It's there to
>> generate heat from the microwaves.

>My exploratory surgery on a used "cup" didn't show any metal. could be
>there, just not easy to see.

It's a very thin coating, so it heats up rather than reflecting
the microwaves (but not so much that it catches on fire). I think
the heavier metal plate in the base is a reflector.

>I'm not too far from
>thinking that they make more money selling replacement cups than they do
>from the popper.

They might if retail stores actually carried them. I've seen a
lot of complaints about people not being able to find them
(although a google search turns up plenty of mail order sources).

I bet the profit margin on the microwave bags is higher, though.
One indicator of this is that retail stores have a dozen kinds of
microwave bags, but they don't have the Powerpop inserts.

>> So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?

>Capitalism?

A good capitalist wouldn't ignore a potential market.

no useful info > writes:

>> If you look these up on Amazon and click "buy used", there's
>> someone selling them in bulk at a discount (they're not really used).
>> No idea if they're reputable or not.

>went there but didnt find them in bulk. boggles the mind to think of
>buying a "bulk" load.

Try this link (you may have to unwrap it):

<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/B0001FR7TQ/
all/ref=dp_pb_a/103-8062814-3638250>

They may not always be listed, though (if it doesn't list
anything, try again another day).

Earlier I wrote:

>>I'm not too far from
>>thinking that they make more money selling replacement cups than they do
>>from the popper.

>They might if retail stores actually carried them.

Also, if this were a true "razors and blades" strategy, the
popper itself would be cheaper.

That's partly why I asked if the poppers that don't use a
concentrator actually work or not. The bags say "this side up"
because the built-in concentrator has to be on the bottom.

"Ron Bean" > wrote in message
...
>
> no useful info > writes:
>
> >> If you look these up on Amazon and click "buy used", there's
> >> someone selling them in bulk at a discount (they're not really
used).
> >> No idea if they're reputable or not.
>
> >went there but didnt find them in bulk. boggles the mind to think of
> >buying a "bulk" load.
>
> Try this link (you may have to unwrap it):
>
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/B0001FR7TQ/
> all/ref=dp_pb_a/103-8062814-3638250>
>
> They may not always be listed, though (if it doesn't list
> anything, try again another day).
>
> Earlier I wrote:
>
> >>I'm not too far from
> >>thinking that they make more money selling replacement cups than
they do
> >>from the popper.
>
> >They might if retail stores actually carried them.
>
> Also, if this were a true "razors and blades" strategy, the
> popper itself would be cheaper.
>
> That's partly why I asked if the poppers that don't use a
> concentrator actually work or not. The bags say "this side up"
> because the built-in concentrator has to be on the bottom.

I get 10 to 20 batches per cup. I pop the corn dry, add the butter and
salt later. So a buck or two for 10 cups, and 10 batches per cup is
like a penny a batch.

del
>
>

"del cecchi" > writes:

>I get 10 to 20 batches per cup. I pop the corn dry, add the butter and
>salt later. So a buck or two for 10 cups, and 10 batches per cup is
>like a penny a batch.

I also pop it dry, and I've gotten as little as two batches per
cup. I haven't had it very long, so I might just have a bad
batch (they tend to crack, as if maybe they're old and brittle).
I'll try to get some newer ones to test.

I wondered if it would help to shut it off before all the kernels
popped, so it doesn't get "toasted" as much (trading off more
unpopped kernels to lengthen the life of a part that only costs
about $0.20 to begin with...)

"no useful info" > wrote in message
...
> we've recently acquired one and have no real complaints except...
>
> it uses the powercup concentrators much faster than stated. I've cut a
> used one up and it looks like nothing more that thick paper/thin
> cardboard.
>
> Any ideas what it really might be and if there is an acceptable (free)
> substitute available.

A brief, nonscientific examination showed that (1) a metal detector gives a
faint, but positive response to the powercup (a postage-stamp-size piece of
aluminum foil gives as strong a signal at 10" from the coil as the power cup
gives at one inch), and (2) putting a powercup, by itself, in a microwave
oven for 5 seconds definitely causes it to get hot. So apparently there is
some metal content, but not much.

In article >,
(Ron Bean) wrote:

> no useful info > writes:
>
> >> If you look these up on Amazon and click "buy used", there's
> >> someone selling them in bulk at a discount (they're not really used).
> >> No idea if they're reputable or not.
>
> >went there but didnt find them in bulk. boggles the mind to think of
> >buying a "bulk" load.
>
> Try this link (you may have to unwrap it):
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg.../-/B0001FR7TQ/
> all/ref=dp_pb_a/103-8062814-3638250>
>
> They may not always be listed, though (if it doesn't list
> anything, try again another day).
>

interesting...it only saves about 1.6 cents per, I would have thought it
would be even cheaper than that.

In article <_Musc.44871$Md.32048@lakeread05>, "Dsorgnzd" >
wrote:

> "no useful info" > wrote in message
> ...
> > we've recently acquired one and have no real complaints except...
> >
> > it uses the powercup concentrators much faster than stated. I've cut a
> > used one up and it looks like nothing more that thick paper/thin
> > cardboard.
> >
> > Any ideas what it really might be and if there is an acceptable (free)
> > substitute available.
>
> A brief, nonscientific examination showed that (1) a metal detector gives a
> faint, but positive response to the powercup (a postage-stamp-size piece of
> aluminum foil gives as strong a signal at 10" from the coil as the power cup
> gives at one inch), and (2) putting a powercup, by itself, in a microwave
> oven for 5 seconds definitely causes it to get hot. So apparently there is
> some metal content, but not much.
>
>

definately would make it hard to see. I should have tried the direct
approach. thanks

In article >,
(Ron Bean) wrote:

> "del cecchi" > writes:
>
> >I get 10 to 20 batches per cup. I pop the corn dry, add the butter and
> >salt later. So a buck or two for 10 cups, and 10 batches per cup is
> >like a penny a batch.
>
> I also pop it dry, and I've gotten as little as two batches per
> cup. I haven't had it very long, so I might just have a bad
> batch (they tend to crack, as if maybe they're old and brittle).
> I'll try to get some newer ones to test.
>
> I wondered if it would help to shut it off before all the kernels
> popped, so it doesn't get "toasted" as much (trading off more
> unpopped kernels to lengthen the life of a part that only costs
> about $0.20 to begin with...)
>
>

I pop dry and I've gotten as few as two batches, the most was around 8
batches. I think you're on to something about the unpopped kernels heat
up the bottom making it brittle. the other thing I noticed was that all
else being equal each batch took longer than the previous one to get the
same results.

I've been toying with the idea of using this ceramic bowl that is used
to eat the popcorn out of. The Power Pop lid fits perfectly. Wonder if
it will actually pop the corn. Guess I'll have to try.

In article >,
(Ron Bean) wrote:

> no useful info > writes:
>
> >> I assume it's the same metalized paper as the bottom of the
> >> microwave popcorn bags everyone else sells. It's there to
> >> generate heat from the microwaves.
>
> >My exploratory surgery on a used "cup" didn't show any metal. could be
> >there, just not easy to see.
>
> It's a very thin coating, so it heats up rather than reflecting
> the microwaves (but not so much that it catches on fire). I think
> the heavier metal plate in the base is a reflector.
>
> >I'm not too far from
> >thinking that they make more money selling replacement cups than they do
> >from the popper.
>
> They might if retail stores actually carried them. I've seen a
> lot of complaints about people not being able to find them
> (although a google search turns up plenty of mail order sources).
>
> I bet the profit margin on the microwave bags is higher, though.
> One indicator of this is that retail stores have a dozen kinds of
> microwave bags, but they don't have the Powerpop inserts.
>
> >> So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?
>
> >Capitalism?
>
> A good capitalist wouldn't ignore a potential market.
>

The theory is nice, but sometimes fragmenting your market niche can
backfire on you.

no useful info > writes:

>> >> So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?
>>
>> >Capitalism?
>>
>> A good capitalist wouldn't ignore a potential market.

>The theory is nice, but sometimes fragmenting your market niche can
>backfire on you.

The idea is to fragment the *other guy's* market niche.
I wouldn't expect ActII or O.Reddenbacher to sell them.
But they don't look like they'd be too hard to manufacture
(it's probably metallic ink).

(The great thing about capitalism is that *any* strategy can
backfire if you get the details wrong.)

"Ron Bean" > wrote in message
...
>
> no useful info > writes:
>
> >> >> So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?
> >>
> >> >Capitalism?
> >>
> >> A good capitalist wouldn't ignore a potential market.
>
> >The theory is nice, but sometimes fragmenting your market niche can
> >backfire on you.
>
> The idea is to fragment the *other guy's* market niche.
> I wouldn't expect ActII or O.Reddenbacher to sell them.
> But they don't look like they'd be too hard to manufacture
> (it's probably metallic ink).
>
> (The great thing about capitalism is that *any* strategy can
> backfire if you get the details wrong.)
>
The microwave popcorn bag is patented. You would need a license. And the
bag is the most expensive part of a bag of popcorn anyway I would bet.

del cecchi
>

In article >,
(Ron Bean) wrote:

> no useful info > writes:
>
> >> >> So how come nobody sells the empty bags by themselves?
> >>
> >> >Capitalism?
> >>
> >> A good capitalist wouldn't ignore a potential market.
>
> >The theory is nice, but sometimes fragmenting your market niche can
> >backfire on you.
>
> The idea is to fragment the *other guy's* market niche.
> I wouldn't expect ActII or O.Reddenbacher to sell them.
> But they don't look like they'd be too hard to manufacture
> (it's probably metallic ink).
>
> (The great thing about capitalism is that *any* strategy can
> backfire if you get the details wrong.)
>
>
>

I'd imagine that they all compete in all the niches. When I bother to
look at popcorn in these bags I don't see very much differentiation and
certainly the majors cover most differences. The most likely scenario is
that someone buying popcorn without butter or salt would have been
buying popcorn with butter or salt and tolerating it. And of course the
usual case is that you pay more for products with less.

The great thing about capitalism is 99cent stores that stock the
failures.

"Del Cecchi" > writes:

>The microwave popcorn bag is patented.

Patents only last 17 years. How long have they been around?

BTW I've tried taking the Powerpop out before it stops popping
and so far the inserts do seem to last longer (too soon to tell
how much longer). I typically get several pops after I've taken
it out of the microwave.

"Ron Bean" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Del Cecchi" > writes:
>
> >The microwave popcorn bag is patented.
>
> Patents only last 17 years. How long have they been around?
>
> BTW I've tried taking the Powerpop out before it stops popping
> and so far the inserts do seem to last longer (too soon to tell
> how much longer). I typically get several pops after I've taken
> it out of the microwave.
>
>

It appears, from searching Delphion.com, that the first bags were patented
in the 70's, but that what we know and love didn't come along until the mid
80's. Followup patents continue until today.

del cecchi
>

"Del Cecchi" > writes:

>> >The microwave popcorn bag is patented.
>>
>> Patents only last 17 years. How long have they been around?

>It appears, from searching Delphion.com, that the first bags were patented
>in the 70's, but that what we know and love didn't come along until the mid
>80's.

Roughly 19 years ago, then.

Meanwhile, Alton Brown claims you can microwave popcorn in a
plain brown paper bag:

<http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_11374,00.html>

I haven't tried it yet, but if that works, why do they put the
heat concentrater in there?

[I wouldn't have known Alton Brown from Buster Brown, but there's
an article about him in Wired magazine this month.]

>it uses the powercup concentrators much faster than stated.

I've found a local source for these (cheap!) but it's a regional
chain so it won't do you any good unless you happen to live in
Wisconsin, northern Illinois, or eastern Iowa:

http://www.farmandfleet.com/storelocator.asp

$.99+tax for 8 pcs works out to about $0.13 ea.

Oddly, they don't seem to actually sell the Powerpop (maybe
they're just sold out?) but they do carry other stuff from
Presto.

I have no connection to the company other than having grown up
within walking distance of one of their stores...

In article >,
(Ron Bean) wrote:

> >it uses the powercup concentrators much faster than stated.
>
> I've found a local source for these (cheap!) but it's a regional
> chain so it won't do you any good unless you happen to live in
> Wisconsin, northern Illinois, or eastern Iowa:
>
> http://www.farmandfleet.com/storelocator.asp
>
> $.99+tax for 8 pcs works out to about $0.13 ea.
>
> Oddly, they don't seem to actually sell the Powerpop (maybe
> they're just sold out?) but they do carry other stuff from
> Presto.
>
> I have no connection to the company other than having grown up
> within walking distance of one of their stores...
>
>

thanks, maybe one of the local farm supply outfits has it. I'll check.
strange site though, not easy to navigate.

On 2004-06-03, Ron Bean > wrote:
> Meanwhile, Alton Brown claims you can microwave popcorn in a
> plain brown paper bag:
>
><http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_11374,00.html>
>
> I haven't tried it yet, but if that works, why do they put the
> heat concentrater in there?

Ah, you've got to see Alton on Good Eats on the Food Network. It's
interesting to know the science of cooking.

His method works well. Put about 1/3 cup of popcorn in a paper lunch
bag, staple it closed (yes, staples are best), and turn on the nuker
until the popping stops. The microwaves heat the water in the kernels
causing them to pop. Would a "concentrator" or even oil create more
efficient popping? It might, but I don't mind if a few kernels don't
pop when I'm spending pennies a bag, whereas commercial microwave
popcorn likes to advertise that all of their kernels pop.

Oh, and debates about using staples in the microwave would belong in
another thread -- but Alton already covers the subject. If it really
troubles you, use tape, but the staples are small enough not to cause
arcing in the microwave. The other problem is that since you're using
untreated paper, I suppose there might be a chance of something
catching fire -- you've been legally warned.

I've also just tried microwaving in a plastic/glass bowl. It works,
but make sure the lid is not too tight or else the steam makes the
popcorn tough. The paper is nice because it allows airflow.

Give it a try -- at worst you've ruined a couple of handfulls of
popcorn, but you've learned something in the process.

--Lance