On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
> wrote:

>On Jan 23, 10:07*pm, "Rod Speed" > wrote:
>> Jeßus wrote
>> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
>> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though
>
>I used to drink mead from a wine glass. Recently, I started drinking
>it from a beer glass. Wow.

I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
spirits don't. That's my experience at least.


> FWIW, if you get into kegging, you can
>force carbonate mead very nicely. It's a lot nicer getting it from a
>tap than opening a champagne bottle each time. I only made a couple
>batches of still mead---everything else sparkling, including my best
>batch, which was meant to be still. Oops.

Never thought of kegging mead. I've been flip-flopping on the idea of
kegs. On the one hand they're convenient in many ways - OTOH bottles
are much more portable.

<snip>

>I wasn't very impressed with the expensive "mead" yeast I used on my
>last batch. It cost a lot more than champagne yeast, and didn't
>produce any better result. Even the dry champagne yeast gives good
>results with mead. I also tend to use less honey than many, like 10
>to 12 pounds per five gallons, vs. the 15 to 18 some prefer. With the
>lower honey content, and champagne yeast, you can get a completely
>fermented out (dry) mead, with none of the sticky sweetness so common
>in mead.

Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet As
mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.

>> > This apple and pear season I plan to substitute the sugar for honey on
>> > a couple of batches, and make a hybrid cider/mead or perry/mead.
>> > Should be interesting.
>
>A friend made that a lot, called it "sizer", or something like that.
>I liked the result, but didn't try doing it myself. Good luck.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to doing this, the honey, apples and pears
will all come from the local area here.

>> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that I infected with
>> the beer brewing bug has just got one and its worked out pretty well.
>
>You can distill? Here (U.S.) it's legal for me to ferment up to 200
>gallons per year, but I can't distill any of it without an expensive
>and difficult-to-obtain license, or a "fuel" license which requires
>poisoning the result. Stupid law, but I follow it.

Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
purchasing much bigger stills.

On Jan 25, 3:22*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>
> > wrote:
> >On Jan 23, 10:07*pm, "Rod Speed" > wrote:
> >> Jeßus wrote
> >> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
> >> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
> >> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though
>
> >I used to drink mead from a wine glass. *Recently, I started drinking
> >it from a beer glass. *Wow.
>
> I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
> It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.

Same here. I seem to go from not feeling it at all to feeling it a
lot, more so even than when I'm drinking neat whisk{e}y.

> > FWIW, if you get into kegging, you can
> >force carbonate mead very nicely. *It's a lot nicer getting it from a
> >tap than opening a champagne bottle each time. *I only made a couple
> >batches of still mead---everything else sparkling, including my best
> >batch, which was meant to be still. *Oops.
>
> Never thought of kegging mead. I've been flip-flopping on the idea of
> kegs. On the one hand they're convenient in many ways - OTOH bottles
> are much more portable.

Another consideration, that didn't occur to me until I emptied my
first keg, is knowing when you're low. With bottles, it's pretty easy
to see when you're down to a few bottles of brew. With a keg, about
the best you can do (AFAIK) is check its weight to get a rough feel of
how much is in there. A full keg is about 40 lbs (18kg) heavier than
an empty, which is very light. Drawing a glass for a friend, only to
have it start blowing CO2 halfway through, can disappoint.

> <snip>
>
> >I wasn't very impressed with the expensive "mead" yeast I used on my
> >last batch. *It cost a lot more than champagne yeast, and didn't
> >produce any better result. *Even the dry champagne yeast gives good
> >results with mead. *I also tend to use less honey than many, like 10
> >to 12 pounds per five gallons, vs. the 15 to 18 some prefer. *With the
> >lower honey content, and champagne yeast, you can get a completely
> >fermented out (dry) mead, with none of the sticky sweetness so common
> >in mead.
>
> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet As
> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.

I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. No need
to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
before the bakers'.

> >> > This apple and pear season I plan to substitute the sugar for honey on
> >> > a couple of batches, and make a hybrid cider/mead or perry/mead.
> >> > Should be interesting.
>
> >A friend made that a lot, called it "sizer", or something like that.
> >I liked the result, but didn't try doing it myself. *Good luck.
>
> Thanks. I'm looking forward to doing this, the honey, apples and pears
> will all come from the local area here.
>
> >> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that I infected with
> >> the beer brewing bug has just got one and its worked out pretty well.
>
> >You can distill? *Here (U.S.) it's legal for me to ferment up to 200
> >gallons per year, but I can't distill any of it without an expensive
> >and difficult-to-obtain license, or a "fuel" license which requires
> >poisoning the result. *Stupid law, but I follow it.
>
> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
> brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
> sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
> purchasing much bigger stills.

I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
indicator. Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
can't even find it. I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
even though I had no intent to actually build a still. I like the
design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs. Colorado now
allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate" doctors
ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could more easily
(legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.

Jeßus wrote
> BruceS > wrote
>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>> Jeßus wrote

>>>> I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>>>> Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in
>>>> winter, at least)... just love the stuff. It can blow your head
>>>> off if you're not careful though

>> I used to drink mead from a wine glass. Recently,
>> I started drinking it from a beer glass. Wow.

> I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then
> mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses. It's insidious stuff
> though, you need to keep an eye on your
> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.

>> FWIW, if you get into kegging, you can
>> force carbonate mead very nicely. It's a lot nicer getting it from a
>> tap than opening a champagne bottle each time. I only made a couple
>> batches of still mead---everything else sparkling, including my best
>> batch, which was meant to be still. Oops.

> Never thought of kegging mead. I've been flip-flopping on the idea of kegs.

Yeah, I've considered them but so far have rejected them.

> On the one hand they're convenient in many ways

Yeah, the bottling is certainly by far the most labor intensive part of the whole operation.

Specially when you do 3 batches at a time like I do.

> - OTOH bottles are much more portable.

And a lot more convenient fridge wise too.

>> I wasn't very impressed with the expensive "mead" yeast I used on my
>> last batch. It cost a lot more than champagne yeast, and didn't
>> produce any better result. Even the dry champagne yeast gives good
>> results with mead. I also tend to use less honey than many, like 10
>> to 12 pounds per five gallons, vs. the 15 to 18 some prefer. With
>> the lower honey content, and champagne yeast, you can get a
>> completely fermented out (dry) mead, with none of the sticky
>> sweetness so common in mead.

> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet As
> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.

>>>> This apple and pear season I plan to substitute the sugar for honey on
>>>> a couple of batches, and make a hybrid cider/mead or perry/mead.
>>>> Should be interesting.

>> A friend made that a lot, called it "sizer", or something like that.
>> I liked the result, but didn't try doing it myself. Good luck.

> Thanks. I'm looking forward to doing this, the honey, apples and pears
> will all come from the local area here.

>>> I'll likely get a spirit still next. The mate of mine that I
>>> infected with the beer brewing bug has just got one and its worked
>>> out pretty well.

>> You can distill? Here (U.S.) it's legal for me to ferment up to 200
>> gallons per year, but I can't distill any of it without an expensive
>> and difficult-to-obtain license, or a "fuel" license which requires
>> poisoning the result. Stupid law, but I follow it.

> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly
> turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course.

I havent even noticed any prosecutions for that either, not clear
if thats because no on is silly enough to do that or what.

> Go into any home brew shop here in Oz and
> you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for sale.

And plenty of local web sites flogging the stuff too.

> We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
> purchasing much bigger stills.

> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for home
production (as long as you dont sell it without a license) yet its illegal
to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume commercial operation and
getting a hard-to-get license (which is why you dont see small-scale
distilling operations along the lines of the microbreweries that are
popping up)

If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops
and use that as a way of enforcing tax regulations.

Jonathan Wilson wrote:

>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of
>> course. Go into any home

> I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for home production (as long as you dont sell it without a
> license) yet its illegal to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume commercial operation and getting a
> hard-to-get license (which is why you dont see small-scale distilling operations along the lines of the microbreweries
> that are popping up)

You do actually, there are in fact a number of them.

> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
> regulations.

Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.

I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.

Most likely its got something to do with what had to be
done to stamp out cheap gin in Hogarthian england all
those years ago when it became clear what the result
of cheap gin could be and the authoritys being too
stupid to have noticed that it works fine in NZ.

You see a similar thing with growing cannabis for
personal use, very few places have enough of a
clue to decriminalise it, let alone make it legal.

Even the obscene tax levels on spirits make no sense at all.

Why should those who prefer decent single malts have to pay a hell
of a lot more tax than those who prefer commercial wine instead ?

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:25:48 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>Jeßus wrote
>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly
>> turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course.
>
>I havent even noticed any prosecutions for that either, not clear
>if thats because no on is silly enough to do that or what.

Probably the latter, and no real perceived benefit for any politician
to get on their high-horse and demand enforcement.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:06:43 -0800 (PST), BruceS
> wrote:

>On Jan 25, 3:22*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Jan 23, 10:07*pm, "Rod Speed" > wrote:
>> >> Jeßus wrote
>> >> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>> >> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
>> >> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though
>>
>> >I used to drink mead from a wine glass. *Recently, I started drinking
>> >it from a beer glass. *Wow.
>>
>> I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
>> It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
>> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
>> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.
>
>Same here. I seem to go from not feeling it at all to feeling it a
>lot, more so even than when I'm drinking neat whisk{e}y.

Twice I've overdone it on the mead... having a quiet drink with a
mate... then a couple more come over and before you know it it's 11PM
and I've cleaned up a litre of mead. Then I wake up in front of the
wood heater, with the dog snuggled up to me

>Another consideration, that didn't occur to me until I emptied my
>first keg, is knowing when you're low. With bottles, it's pretty easy
>to see when you're down to a few bottles of brew. With a keg, about
>the best you can do (AFAIK) is check its weight to get a rough feel of
>how much is in there. A full keg is about 40 lbs (18kg) heavier than
>an empty, which is very light. Drawing a glass for a friend, only to
>have it start blowing CO2 halfway through, can disappoint.

I'd never thought of that problem, hmm.


>> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
>> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
>> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
>> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
>> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet As
>> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
>> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
>> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
>> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.
>
>I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. No need
>to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
>before the bakers'.

As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
or other wine yeast.

>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
>> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
>> brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
>> sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
>> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
>> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
>> purchasing much bigger stills.
>
>I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
>distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
>indicator. Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
>can't even find it. I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
>even though I had no intent to actually build a still. I like the
>design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
>Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
>enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs. Colorado now
>allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate" doctors
>ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could more easily
>(legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.

Indeed. If you're interested in distilling and/or making your own
still, there is a Yahoo group that's got a pretty good group of people
on there who know their stuff. Called 'new distillers'

Or maybe have a look at:
http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/ and http://homedistiller.org

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>Jonathan Wilson wrote:
>
>>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of
>>> course. Go into any home
>
>> I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for home production (as long as you dont sell it without a
>> license) yet its illegal to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume commercial operation and getting a
>> hard-to-get license (which is why you dont see small-scale distilling operations along the lines of the microbreweries
>> that are popping up)
>
>You do actually, there are in fact a number of them.

There's quite a few micro breweries here in Tassie and I'm even
contemplating joining their ranks at some point. We have all the
ingredients right here locally. If I do, it'll be mead and/or cider
and perry, or some combination thereof.
I'm in no hurry to jump into the deep end though.

>Why should those who prefer decent single malts have to pay a hell
>of a lot more tax than those who prefer commercial wine instead ?

Just an outdated tax... but being a tax, good luck trying to get it
repealed :\

On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:17:05 -0800 (PST), BruceS
> wrote:

>On Jan 26, 11:47*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:17:16 -0800 (PST), Brad >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:22:07 AM UTC+11, Jeßus wrote:
>> That's OK, but you need to be aware that freeze distillation doesn't
>> remove the methanol. Not necessarily a problem though, just so long as
>> you're aware of it and not aiming for maximum alcohol content.
>>
>> I was only thinking last night of freeze distilling some of my mead,
>> in order to make a mead liqueur, I'm only looking to make the alcohol
>> content around 20-25% so it should work well and methanol shouldn't be
>> an issue at that strength. I could use the pot still of course, but
>> I'm thinking I might get a better result with freeze distillation
>> (retaining more colour and flavour than the pot still, hopefully).
>
>I've thought about freeze-distilling, as it takes no extra equipment
>that would be suspicious. If you have cold enough weather, you should
>even be able to remove the methanol that way, though just thinking
>about the temperatures involved (-73C to -115C) makes my fingers
>ache.

We get regular -6ºC minimums during winter, which is cold enough,
thanks

> No matter what the total alcohol concentration, the ethanol/
>methanol ratio should be the same unless you've removed methanol
>during distillation, so I don't get your focus on strength.


Sorry, you worded it much better than I did, yeah, the ratio would be
the same.

>I would
>also expect mead (and beer) to have negligible methanol concentration
>since they don't use any fruit skin or other "woody" substances, but
>I've never researched that so I could be completely off base.

Same here, I haven't done any research into if in fact there would be
any methanol in mead, I would assume there would be little if any, but
I'd rather err on the side of caution in the meantime. Not that that
will stop my freeze distilling. I may even get around to freeze
distilling some mead this weekend, time permitting. I have two batches
of lager to start and then bottle the mead I racked the other day as
it is.

>Maybe I'll do that for my next mead batch. I could make it still, let
>it sit until the weather gets cold enough, freeze distill it to a half
>volume or so, then force carbonate some of the result in bottles while
>leaving the majority still in bottles.

Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
>> regulations.
>
>Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.
>
>I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.

Don't think it is "legal" in NZ but you can buy very, very good reflux
stills there, as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg)
"Lavender oil", Garlic oil!
All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey Rum
etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also very good
quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney clubs pubs
were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They only got
discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were not selling
"Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney and the AFP were
called in. No complaints from public
--
Petzl
Plonk is bad wine, Plink is bad Plonk

Jeßus wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> Jonathan Wilson wrote

>>>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a blind
>>>> eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home

>>> I have never understood why its legal to ferment alcohol for
>>> home production (as long as you dont sell it without a license)
>>> yet its illegal to distill alcohol without being a big high-volume
>>> commercial operation and getting a hard-to-get license (which
>>> is why you dont see small-scale distilling operations along the
>>> lines of the microbreweries that are popping up)

>> You do actually, there are in fact a number of them.

> There's quite a few micro breweries here in Tassie

Yeah, a couple of our major wine operations have got into microbrewing, most obviously with de Bortolis.

> and I'm even contemplating joining their ranks at some point.
> We have all the ingredients right here locally. If I do, it'll be
> mead and/or cider and perry, or some combination thereof.
> I'm in no hurry to jump into the deep end though.

>> Why should those who prefer decent single malts have to pay a hell
>> of a lot more tax than those who prefer commercial wine instead ?

> Just an outdated tax...

I thought it might have got rethought when we got our GST, but
they just carried on regardless with that aspect of the tax system.

Presumably with the same idea behind it as the immense tax on cigarettes.

> but being a tax, good luck trying to get it repealed :\

They have been trying to makes some changes with the way commercial wine is taxed.

Pretzl wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote

>>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for
>>> small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax regulations.

>> Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>> reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.

>> I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>> reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.

> Don't think it is "legal" in NZ

It is anyway. Check any of the distillation sites.

> but you can buy very, very good reflux stills there,

You can here too.

> as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg) "Lavender oil", Garlic oil!

There is no such requirement in NZ.

> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney

I just dont believe that.

> and the AFP were called in.

The AFP aint even the relevant authority.

> No complaints from public

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:54:44 +1100, Petzl > wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:
>
>>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
>>> regulations.
>>
>>Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>>reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.
>>
>>I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>>reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.
>
>Don't think it is "legal" in NZ

Distilling alcohol is most definitely is legal in N.Z, since 1996
IIRC.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:20:34 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney
>
>I just dont believe that.
>
>> and the AFP were called in.
>
>The AFP aint even the relevant authority.
>
>> No complaints from public

And you'd think something like that'd be splashed all over the news,
the media would jump onto something like that quick smart.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:20:34 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>> Don't think it is "legal" in NZ
>
>It is anyway. Check any of the distillation sites.
>
Long time since I were there. Seems the law has been changed and is
now legal.

>> but you can buy very, very good reflux stills there,
>
>You can here too.
>
>> as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg) "Lavender oil", Garlic oil!
>
>There is no such requirement in NZ.
>
>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney
>
>I just dont believe that.

It happened in the 80's would I lie to you?
>> and the AFP were called in.
>
>The AFP aint even the relevant authority.
>
Not sure it happened around 30 years ago.

>> No complaints from public
>

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:27:27 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:20:34 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:
>
>>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney
>>
>>I just dont believe that.
>>
>>> and the AFP were called in.
>>
>>The AFP aint even the relevant authority.
>>
>>> No complaints from public
>
>And you'd think something like that'd be splashed all over the news,
>the media would jump onto something like that quick smart.

Front page on the Telegraph but can't find it on google? Probably mid
1980's
--
Petzl
Plonk is bad wine, Plink is bad Plonk

On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 12:21:12 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 10:54:44 +1100, Petzl > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 09:37:42 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:
>>
>>>> If its because of tax, they could introduce new licenses for small shops and use that as a way of enforcing tax
>>>> regulations.
>>>
>>>Not really feasible. Its essentially impossible to
>>>reliably measure how much alcohol they have produced.
>>>
>>>I agree that it should be legal, but for some odd
>>>reason its only legal in NZ as far as I know.
>>
>>Don't think it is "legal" in NZ
>
>Distilling alcohol is most definitely is legal in N.Z, since 1996
>IIRC.
Yeah looked it up. Haven't been there for over 30 years but were
impressed at the quality of the spirits made
--
Petzl
Plonk is bad wine, Plink is bad Plonk

Pretzl wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote

>>> Don't think it is "legal" in NZ

>> It is anyway. Check any of the distillation sites.

> Long time since I were there. Seems the law has been changed and is now legal.

Its been legal there for a long time.

>>> but you can buy very, very good reflux stills there,

>> You can here too.

>>> as long as you intend to use it only for distilling (eg) "Lavender oil", Garlic oil!

>> There is no such requirement in NZ.

>>> All stills sold come with a recipe book on how to make Whiskey
>>> Rum etc, though. Most home brewers I met over make spirits also
>>> very good quality. In Campbelltown hills where I live many Sydney
>>> clubs pubs were buying spirits from our "Croatian" Hillbillies. They
>>> only got discovered because the legal suppliers noticed they were
>>> not selling "Johnny Walker" "Jim Beam" to whole areas of Sydney

>> I just dont believe that.

> It happened in the 80's

Dont believe that last was ever true anywhere.

> would I lie to you?

You could well be stupid enough to have bought that lie from someone else.

>>> and the AFP were called in.

>> The AFP aint even the relevant authority.

> Not sure

I am.

> it happened around 30 years ago.

They werent then either.

>>> No complaints from public

On Jan 27, 4:14*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 15:06:43 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Jan 25, 3:22*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:15:50 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >On Jan 23, 10:07*pm, "Rod Speed" > wrote:
> >> >> Jeßus wrote
> >> >> > I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
> >> >> > Started brewing mead last year and now it's my main drink (in winter, at least)...
> >> >> > just love the stuff. It can blow your head off if you're not careful though
>
> >> >I used to drink mead from a wine glass. *Recently, I started drinking
> >> >it from a beer glass. *Wow.
>
> >> I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses.
> >> It's insidious stuff though, you need to keep an eye on your
> >> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
> >> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.
>
> >Same here. *I seem to go from not feeling it at all to feeling it a
> >lot, more so even than when I'm drinking neat whisk{e}y.
>
> Twice I've overdone it on the mead... having a quiet drink with a
> mate... then a couple more come over and before you know it it's 11PM
> and I've cleaned up a litre of mead. Then I wake up in front of the
> wood heater, with the dog snuggled up to me
>
> >Another consideration, that didn't occur to me until I emptied my
> >first keg, is knowing when you're low. *With bottles, it's pretty easy
> >to see when you're down to a few bottles of brew. *With a keg, about
> >the best you can do (AFAIK) is check its weight to get a rough feel of
> >how much is in there. *A full keg is about 40 lbs (18kg) heavier than
> >an empty, which is very light. *Drawing a glass for a friend, only to
> >have it start blowing CO2 halfway through, can disappoint.
>
> I'd never thought of that problem, hmm.

One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and it
works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either way,
it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
something for a while.

> >> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
> >> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
> >> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
> >> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
> >> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet As
> >> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
> >> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
> >> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
> >> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.
>
> >I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. *No need
> >to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
> >before the bakers'.
>
> As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
> still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
> the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
> yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
> clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
> yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
> so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
> or other wine yeast.

That's part of the fun of brewing; it isn't entirely predictable or
reproducible for those of us that don't write down every detail. My
best batch of mead was a mistake, and I've never been able to come
close to it. Mine do clarify pretty well, once the carbonation has
slowed. In case you're not already doing it, it may help to rack it
every time it builds up a significant layer of sediment.

> >> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly turn a
> >> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any home
> >> brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc. openly for
> >> sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for oil extracts
> >> or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production. Max.
> >> allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
> >> purchasing much bigger stills.
>
> >I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
> >distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
> >indicator. *Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
> >can't even find it. *I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
> >even though I had no intent to actually build a still. *I like the
> >design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
> >Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
> >enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs. *Colorado now
> >allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate" doctors
> >ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could more easily
> >(legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.
>
> Indeed. If you're interested in distilling and/or making your own
> still, there is a Yahoo group that's got a pretty good group of people
> on there who know their stuff. Called 'new distillers'

Thanks, I'll look into that.

> Or maybe have a look at:http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/and *http://homedistiller.org

Or that.
Or both. I have a lot of free time these days.

On Jan 27, 4:33*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 07:17:05 -0800 (PST), BruceS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Jan 26, 11:47*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> >> On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:17:16 -0800 (PST), Brad >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Thursday, January 26, 2012 9:22:07 AM UTC+11, Jeßus wrote:
> >> That's OK, but you need to be aware that freeze distillation doesn't
> >> remove the methanol. Not necessarily a problem though, just so long as
> >> you're aware of it and not aiming for maximum alcohol content.
>
> >> I was only thinking last night of freeze distilling some of my mead,
> >> in order to make a mead liqueur, I'm only looking to make the alcohol
> >> content around 20-25% so it should work well and methanol shouldn't be
> >> an issue at that strength. I could use the pot still of course, but
> >> I'm thinking I might get a better result with freeze distillation
> >> (retaining more colour and flavour than the pot still, hopefully).
>
> >I've thought about freeze-distilling, as it takes no extra equipment
> >that would be suspicious. *If you have cold enough weather, you should
> >even be able to remove the methanol that way, though just thinking
> >about the temperatures involved (-73C to -115C) makes my fingers
> >ache.
>
> We get regular -6ºC minimums during winter, which is cold enough,
> thanks

Cold enough to separate water from alcohol, but not enough to separate
ethanol from methanol. I was just joking about "cold weather" doing
that.

> > No matter what the total alcohol concentration, the ethanol/
> >methanol ratio should be the same unless you've removed methanol
> >during distillation, so I don't get your focus on strength.
>
> Sorry, you worded it much better than I did, yeah, the ratio would be
> the same.
>
> >I would
> >also expect mead (and beer) to have negligible methanol concentration
> >since they don't use any fruit skin or other "woody" substances, but
> >I've never researched that so I could be completely off base.
>
> Same here, I haven't done any research into if in fact there would be
> any methanol in mead, I would assume there would be little if any, but
> I'd rather err on the side of caution in the meantime. Not that that
> will stop my freeze distilling. I may even get around to freeze
> distilling some mead this weekend, time permitting. I have two batches
> of lager to start and then bottle the mead I racked the other day as
> it is.
>
> >Maybe I'll do that for my next mead batch. *I could make it still, let
> >it sit until the weather gets cold enough, freeze distill it to a half
> >volume or so, then force carbonate some of the result in bottles while
> >leaving the majority still in bottles.
>
> Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.

I'll try to remember to post here when I do.

BruceS wrote
> Jeßus > wrote
>> BruceS > wrote
>>> Jeßus > wrote
>>>> BruceS > wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed > wrote
>>>>>> Jeßus wrote

>>>>>>> I just racked a batch of spiced mead this arvo.
>>>>>>> Started brewing mead last year and now it's my
>>>>>>> main drink (in winter, at least)... just love the stuff.
>>>>>>> It can blow your head off if you're not careful though

>>>>> I used to drink mead from a wine glass. Recently,
>>>>> I started drinking it from a beer glass. Wow.

>>>> I did similar actually. Started off using shot glasses, then
>>>> mid-sized glasses, then full size glasses. It's insidious stuff
>>>> though, you need to keep an eye on your
>>>> consumption, it seems to sneak up to you in a way that beer and
>>>> spirits don't. That's my experience at least.

>>> Same here. I seem to go from not feeling it at all to feeling it a
>>> lot, more so even than when I'm drinking neat whisk{e}y.

>> Twice I've overdone it on the mead... having a quiet drink with a
>> mate... then a couple more come over and before you know it it's 11PM
>> and I've cleaned up a litre of mead. Then I wake up in front of the
>> wood heater, with the dog snuggled up to me

>>> Another consideration, that didn't occur to me until I emptied my
>>> first keg, is knowing when you're low. With bottles, it's pretty
>>> easy to see when you're down to a few bottles of brew. With a keg,
>>> about the best you can do (AFAIK) is check its weight to get a
>>> rough feel of how much is in there. A full keg is about 40 lbs
>>> (18kg) heavier than an empty, which is very light. Drawing a glass
>>> for a friend, only to have it start blowing CO2 halfway through,
>>> can disappoint.

>> I'd never thought of that problem, hmm.

> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
> bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
> simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and it
> works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic bottle.

Dunno, I do about half of mine in plastic, Cooper's PETs.

The other half in glass 375ml bottles we call stubbys.

Mate of mine whose kids drink lots of softdrink uses those plastic bottles.

The PETs are easier to fill because they are twice the size but you cant
leave them in the plastic bottles as long, Coopers recommends no longer
than 3 months. I routinely drink some beer a year after its bottled because
some years I do the entire year's supply in just one mega brewing season.

The main think I dont like with plastic other than that is that you cant
wash them in the dishwasher. The stubbys are fine in the dishwasher.

I do have some traditional glass beer bottles, but I got them at yard/
garage sales and so far havent gotten around to cleaning them. They
dont do well in the dishwasher, it doesnt work that well with those
much bigger bottles.

> I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
> bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed.
> Either way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg
> is mainly about reducing hassle.

Yeah, certainly saves the bottling time which
is by far the most effort with a particular batch.

> I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
> and stop whining, but each one is different, so I
> still run out of something for a while.

And they need their own dedicated fridge/fridges with beer.

That adds to the cost considerably, and the running cost too.

>>>> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts -
>>>> both dry and sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20
>>>> just for the yeast. For my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast.
>>>> There was also an air leak in the lid, and possibly some wild
>>>> yeasts snuck in there as well... but all I know is, that remains
>>>> the best mead I've made yet As mentioned before, my next
>>>> batches will use champagne yeast, will be interesting to see
>>>> the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys and yeast, but
>>>> eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
>>>> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.

>>> I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well.
>>> No need to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for
>>>> the champagne long before the bakers'.

>> As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
>> still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
>> the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
>> yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
>> clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
>> yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
>> so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
>> or other wine yeast.

> That's part of the fun of brewing; it isn't entirely predictable or
> reproducible for those of us that don't write down every detail.
> My best batch of mead was a mistake, and I've never been
> able to come close to it.

Thats why I document things properly, including the temps.

That situation of not being about to duplicate one of the best
irritates the hell out of me.

> Mine do clarify pretty well, once the carbonation has slowed.
> In case you're not already doing it, it may help to rack it
> every time it builds up a significant layer of sediment.

>>>> Distilling alcohol is illegal here, but the authorities clearly> turn a
>>>> blind eye - unless you're mass-producing of course. Go into any
>>>> home brew shop here in Oz and you'll see stills, essences etc.
>>>> openly for sale. We are actually allowed to own and use a till for
>>>> oil extracts or water distillation... but NOT for alcohol production.
>>>> Max. allowable size is only 5L as well, although there is no trouble
>>>> purchasing much bigger stills.

>>> I'm not sure how seriously they take it here, but I haven't seen any
>>> distilling equipment at the brew shops, so that's probably a fair
>>> indicator. Years ago I bought a book on building stills, but now I
>>> can't even find it. I'm paranoid enough that I bought it with cash,
>>> even though I had no intent to actually build a still. I like the
>>> design with a vertical tube of marbles to improve efficiency.
>>> Authorities here can sometimes be breathtakingly absurd in their
>>> enforcement of laws related to recreational drugs. Colorado now
>>> allows "medical" marijuana, with shops having "compassionate"
>>> doctors ready to write nearly anyone a prescription, so I could
>>> more easily (legally) grow and use pot than run a pot still.

>> Indeed. If you're interested in distilling and/or making your own
>> still, there is a Yahoo group that's got a pretty good group of
>> people on there who know their stuff. Called 'new distillers'

> Thanks, I'll look into that.

>> Or maybe have a look at:http://www.taet.com.au/distillers.nsf/and
>> http://homedistiller.org

> Or that.
> Or both. I have a lot of free time these days.

On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 10:48:10 -0800 (PST), BruceS
> wrote:

Lost track of this thread, sorry...
<snip>

>One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
>bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
>simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and it
>works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
>bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
>bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either way,
>it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
>reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
>and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
>something for a while.

Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range of brews
to have available at any given time I would think

>> >> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
>> >> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast. For
>> >> my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an air leak in
>> >> the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there as well... but
>> >> all I know is, that remains the best mead I've made yet As
>> >> mentioned before, my next batches will use champagne yeast, will be
>> >> interesting to see the results. I'm still experimenting with honeys
>> >> and yeast, but eventually I'll settle on one or two combinations. I'm
>> >> hoping the cheaper yeasts work best, for obvious reasons.
>>
>> >I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. *No need
>> >to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne long
>> >before the bakers'.

Yep, it wasn't my long range plan to keep using these expensive
yeasts. I was just somewhat playing it 'safe' by using a so-called
proper yeast for a while, now it's time to start trying other types.

>> As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead is
>> still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the recipe to
>> the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the airlock and wild
>> yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months, the honey had
>> clarified completely, something I haven't achieved with any other
>> yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the batches I've done
>> so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will be either champagne
>> or other wine yeast.
>
>That's part of the fun of brewing; it isn't entirely predictable or
>reproducible for those of us that don't write down every detail. My
>best batch of mead was a mistake, and I've never been able to come
>close to it. Mine do clarify pretty well, once the carbonation has
>slowed. In case you're not already doing it, it may help to rack it
>every time it builds up a significant layer of sediment.

I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified
properly.

Jeßus wrote
> BruceS > wrote

> Lost track of this thread, sorry...
> <snip>

>> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
>> bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
>> simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and
>> it works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
>> bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
>> bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either
>> way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
>> reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
>> and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
>> something for a while.

> Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range
> of brews to have available at any given time I would think

I tend to drink a brew at a time except when visitors show up.

Mate of mine prefers much more variety than my approach, even on a particular day.

Dont think he ever has more than 4 different brews
on a particular day, but could well do in a week etc.

With fridges alone, thats a real problem.

>>>>> Most of my meads have used those wyeast mead yeasts - both dry and
>>>>> sweet. For a 30L batch, that costs me AUD$20 just for the yeast.
>>>>> For my first ever mead, I used bakers yeast. There was also an
>>>>> air leak in the lid, and possibly some wild yeasts snuck in there
>>>>> as well... but all I know is, that remains the best mead I've
>>>>> made yet As mentioned before, my next batches will use
>>>>> champagne yeast, will be interesting to see the results. I'm
>>>>> still experimenting with honeys and yeast, but eventually I'll
>>>>> settle on one or two combinations. I'm hoping the cheaper yeasts
>>>>> work best, for obvious reasons.

>>>> I think they'll work fine, and I hope you find that as well. No
>>>> need to spend so much on yeast, though I'd opt for the champagne
>>>> long before the bakers'.

> Yep, it wasn't my long range plan to keep using these expensive
> yeasts. I was just somewhat playing it 'safe' by using a so-called
> proper yeast for a while, now it's time to start trying other types.

>>> As would I, normally. All I know is the very first 5L batch of mead
>>> is still the best one I made, I used bakers yeast (followed the
>>> recipe to the letter). Mind you, there was a leak around the
>>> airlock and wild yeast may have gotten in. After only 2-3 months,
>>> the honey had clarified completely, something I haven't achieved
>>> with any other yeast. And it really does taste the best of all the
>>> batches I've done so far <shrug>. But yeah, next batch of mead will
>>> be either champagne or other wine yeast.

>> That's part of the fun of brewing; it isn't entirely predictable or
>> reproducible for those of us that don't write down every detail. My
>> best batch of mead was a mistake, and I've never been able to come
>> close to it. Mine do clarify pretty well, once the carbonation has
>> slowed. In case you're not already doing it, it may help to rack it
>> every time it builds up a significant layer of sediment.

> I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
> around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
> of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
> two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
> being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified properly.

What is your opinion on whats a desirable max temp in summer ?

On Jan 29, 11:51*am, BruceS > wrote:
> On Jan 27, 4:33*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
<snip>
> > Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.
>
> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.

Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. After
it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
a fairly homogenous mush. There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
the mead did originally. After being melted and consumed, they have
the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
expect of the original mead. What has this person done wrong?
Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
higher ethanol percentage?
EMWTK

BruceS wrote
> BruceS > wrote
>> Jeßus > wrote

>>> Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.

>> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.

> Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. After
> it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
> a fairly homogenous mush. There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
> On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
> the mead did originally. After being melted and consumed, they have
> the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
> expect of the original mead. What has this person done wrong?
> Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
> separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
> higher ethanol percentage?
> EMWTK

That whole process is much more complicated than it looks.

Zone refining shows that its not as simple as just freezing it once.

There's a reason that the commercial process is distiling, not freezing.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:33:18 -0800 (PST), BruceS >
wrote:

>On Jan 29, 11:51*am, BruceS > wrote:
>> On Jan 27, 4:33*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
><snip>
>> > Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.
>>
>> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.
>
>Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. After
>it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
>a fairly homogenous mush. There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
>On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
>the mead did originally. After being melted and consumed, they have
>the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
>expect of the original mead. What has this person done wrong?
>Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
>separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
>higher ethanol percentage?
>EMWTK

Based on my experience, I would say they've left it in the freezer for
too long. I found that approx. six hours nicely froze a good amount of
water, the ice did not appear to have much colour (if any) and was
easy to separate from the good stuff. When I left it in the freezer
overnight, I got the homogenous mush you speak of. My freezer temp is
somewhere around -20ºC, according to the thermometer.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 08:30:04 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>Jeßus wrote
>> BruceS > wrote
>
>> Lost track of this thread, sorry...
>> <snip>
>
>>> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a 1L
>>> bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I built a
>>> simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found, and
>>> it works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a plastic
>>> bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple champagne
>>> bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar needed. Either
>>> way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the keg is mainly about
>>> reducing hassle. I guess I should just be happy to have four kegs,
>>> and stop whining, but each one is different, so I still run out of
>>> something for a while.
>
>> Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range
>> of brews to have available at any given time I would think
>
>I tend to drink a brew at a time except when visitors show up.
>
>Mate of mine prefers much more variety than my approach, even on a particular day.

I get 2.5 cartons per batch (stubbies), I generally wait 2-3 months,
then drink 1 to 1.5 cartons of those cartons, then leave the other
carton to age for up to 18 months. I try to maintain the 'stockpile'
around 30 cartons of beer and cider at any given time.
I like to have two different beers, one type of cider and mead in the
fridge.

>> I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
>> around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
>> of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
>> two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
>> being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified properly.
>
>What is your opinion on whats a desirable max temp in summer ?

I don't have much of an opinion on that at this stage, not something
I've investigated... yet. However, I would say 28ºC is as high as many
yeasts can handle. Most of my brews sit around 24-26ºC, summer or
winter (in winter I use aquarium heaters).

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:53:50 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:

>On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:33:18 -0800 (PST), BruceS >
>wrote:
>
>>On Jan 29, 11:51*am, BruceS > wrote:
>>> On Jan 27, 4:33*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
>><snip>
>>> > Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.
>>>
>>> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.
>>
>>Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. After
>>it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
>>a fairly homogenous mush. There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
>>On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
>>the mead did originally. After being melted and consumed, they have
>>the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
>>expect of the original mead. What has this person done wrong?
>>Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
>>separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
>>higher ethanol percentage?
>>EMWTK
>
>Based on my experience, I would say they've left it in the freezer for
>too long. I found that approx. six hours nicely froze a good amount of
>water, the ice did not appear to have much colour (if any) and was
>easy to separate from the good stuff. When I left it in the freezer
>overnight, I got the homogenous mush you speak of. My freezer temp is
>somewhere around -20ºC, according to the thermometer.

I should also mention that I used a large rectangular plastic storage
container (food grade plastic of course), which meant that there was a
very large surface area for the liquid, which was probably only 2-3"
deep. This probably helped make the process a lot easier.

Jeßus wrote
> Rod Speed > wrote
>> Jeßus wrote
>>> BruceS > wrote

>>> Lost track of this thread, sorry...

>>>> One of my recent batches, I tried getting around it by filling a
>>>> 1L bottle with beer, and force-carbonating it in that bottle. I
>>>> built a simple cap & valve setup based on a YouTube video I found,
>>>> and it works OK. Still, it's a bit offputting to have beer in a
>>>> plastic bottle. I think next batch, I'll put beer in a couple
>>>> champagne bottles, and add the small amount of invert sugar
>>>> needed. Either way, it's a bit of extra hassle, when using the
>>>> keg is mainly about reducing hassle. I guess I should just be
>>>> happy to have four kegs, and stop whining, but each one is
>>>> different, so I still run out of something for a while.

>>> Pros and cons to all approaches, 4 kegs is a reasonable range
>>> of brews to have available at any given time I would think

>> I tend to drink a brew at a time except when visitors show up.

>> Mate of mine prefers much more variety than my approach, even on a particular day.

> I get 2.5 cartons per batch (stubbies),

Yeah, me too, 60 stubbys or 30 PETs.

> I generally wait 2-3 months,

I always wait at least that long, sometime much longer
because I brew at most once or twice a year.

Just once this year because it stayed warm and cool enough for longer than usual.

I prefer not to heat or cool while brewing.

> then drink 1 to 1.5 cartons of those cartons, then
> leave the other carton to age for up to 18 months.

I dont need to split the brew like that because of the way I brew.

> I try to maintain the 'stockpile' around 30 cartons of beer and cider at any given time.

I dont try to ensure I always have that as a minimum.

And I dont bother with cider anymore, I prefer the beer.

> I like to have two different beers, one
> type of cider and mead in the fridge.

I normally have more than a couple of beer brews because
some of the visitors prefer more than one beer brew in a session.

>>> I do rack, but only once before it gets used or bottled (generally
>>> around 3 months). Only now I'm starting to build a bit of a stockpile
>>> of mead, meaning that future batches should get to age for a year or
>>> two before use. That should help a lot when it comes to sediment,
>>> being able to rack it more than once and after it has clarified properly.

>> What is your opinion on whats a desirable max temp in summer ?

> I don't have much of an opinion on that at this stage,
> not something I've investigated... yet. However, I
> would say 28ºC is as high as many yeasts can handle.

In that case I cant do it thru the summer.

> Most of my brews sit around 24-26ºC,

Yeah, thats what I mostly brew at. The main exception is the
Coopers European Lager which prefers 21. Its a bit tricky temp
wise because I prefer not to heat or cool and we can swing from
too hot to too cold and the reverse in just a week some years.

> summer or winter (in winter I use aquarium heaters).

I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.
I normally run 3 fermenters at a time now, tho I
obvously wouldnt with a trial mead that can be in
the fermenter for 6-12 months. I'd use the Tooheys
fermenter that I dont use for beer anymore, because
its just a bit too small and you can get quite a bit of
the early fermentation coming out the airlock with
particularly the Cooper's yeasts.

Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.

On Feb 7, 7:15*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:53:50 +1100, Jeßus > wrote:
> >On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:33:18 -0800 (PST), BruceS >
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Jan 29, 11:51*am, BruceS > wrote:
> >>> On Jan 27, 4:33*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> >><snip>
> >>> > Please do this, I'd love to hear back about your experiences.
>
> >>> I'll try to remember to post here when I do.
>
> >>Hypothetically, imagine a person put some mead in the freezer. *After
> >>it got down to about 22F (-5.5C), the whole thing (about 3L) turns to
> >>a fairly homogenous mush. *There's some ice crystals, but no chunks.
> >>On removal, the ice crystals have a decidedly yellow color, just like
> >>the mead did originally. *After being melted and consumed, they have
> >>the same flavor and seem to have about the same effect as one would
> >>expect of the original mead. *What has this person done wrong?
> >>Shouldn't the water portion (with a very small ethanol concentration)
> >>separate out and freeze, leaving the remaining portion with a much
> >>higher ethanol percentage?
> >>EMWTK
>
> >Based on my experience, I would say they've left it in the freezer for
> >too long. I found that approx. six hours nicely froze a good amount of
> >water, the ice did not appear to have much colour (if any) and was
> >easy to separate from the good stuff. When I left it in the freezer
> >overnight, I got the homogenous mush you speak of. My freezer temp is
> >somewhere around -20ºC, according to the thermometer.
>
> I should also mention that I used a large rectangular plastic storage
> container (food grade plastic of course), which meant that there was a
> very large surface area for the liquid, which was probably only 2-3"
> deep. This probably helped make the process a lot easier.

This was a round plastic container, not tall, just big around. At no
time did it seem to make hard ice chunks, just slowly went from cold
liquid to colder slush. I'm starting to wonder if my friendly local
distillery would be willing to distill a small batch of mead.

No experiment is a failure. Some confirm the experimenter's
expectations, which is ok. Others challenge those, leading to new
assumptions, new expectations, and new knowledge, which is better.

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:28:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> wrote:

>I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.

I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday, I think I might go to
heating mats... the aquarium heaters are fragile and make cleaning
quite a bit harder.

>Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
>The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
>accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.

Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a couple of
months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even thought about the fact
that it's not transparent, I still havent used it (obviously). Come
apple season time, I will though.

Bought two 34L glass carboys the other day and as I type this I'm
re-racking two batches of mead into those. Then I'll rack the two
batches of Cascade lager, let it resettle and bottle 'em tomorrow.
And start two more batches of Cascade pale ale...

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 06:58:39 -0800 (PST), BruceS >
wrote:

>This was a round plastic container, not tall, just big around. At no
>time did it seem to make hard ice chunks, just slowly went from cold
>liquid to colder slush. I'm starting to wonder if my friendly local
>distillery would be willing to distill a small batch of mead.

Worth a try, I wish I had a local distillery to go to. Well, there are
a couple but a bit of a drive.

>No experiment is a failure. Some confirm the experimenter's
>expectations, which is ok. Others challenge those, leading to new
>assumptions, new expectations, and new knowledge, which is better.

Exactly. It's all a learning process.

On Feb 12, 6:32*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:28:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>
> > wrote:
> >I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.
>
> I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday, I think I might go to
> heating mats... the aquarium heaters are fragile and make cleaning
> quite a bit harder.
>
> >Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
> >The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
> >accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.
>
> Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a couple of
> months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even thought about the fact
> that it's not transparent, I still havent used it (obviously). Come
> apple season time, I will though.

Here's a thought: drill two holes in the can, one near the top and one
near the bottom. Cut a length of clear plastic pipe about as long as
the distance between the holes. Attach right-angle fittings (aka
"elbows") to each end of the tube, and seal onto the can. If you can
picture this, it would be a sort of "window" into the can, letting you
see the level. It would be a bit of a hassle, but not too bad and not
too expensive. It may also make cleaning a bit harder. I don't know
if it's worth it, but I may try this with a korny keg. For that, I'd
also have to be sure the whole thing could handle pressure, up to
maybe 50psi to be safe.

BruceS wrote
> Jeßus > wrote
>> Rod Speed > wrote

>>> I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.

>> I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday,
>> I think I might go to heating mats... the aquarium
>> heaters are fragile and make cleaning quite a bit harder.

>>> Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
>>> The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
>>> accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.

>> Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a
>> couple of months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even
>> thought about the fact that it's not transparent, I still havent
>> used it (obviously). Come apple season time, I will though.

> Here's a thought: drill two holes in the can, one near the top
> and one near the bottom. Cut a length of clear plastic pipe
> about as long as the distance between the holes. Attach
> right-angle fittings (aka "elbows") to each end of the tube,
> and seal onto the can. If you can picture this, it would be
> a sort of "window" into the can, letting you see the level.

Lot easier to just use a dip stick at the only time it matters, when filling
the barrel with water when making up the initial mix of the wort and water.

> It would be a bit of a hassle, but not too bad and not too expensive.

A dip stick is even less expensive and much less hassle.

> It may also make cleaning a bit harder. I don't know
> if it's worth it, but I may try this with a korny keg. For
> that, I'd also have to be sure the whole thing could
> handle pressure, up to maybe 50psi to be safe.

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:37:49 -0800 (PST), BruceS
> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 6:32*pm, Jeßus > wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:28:26 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >I do have a heater belt but only for one fermenter.
>>
>> I broke one of my aquarium heaters yeasterday, I think I might go to
>> heating mats... the aquarium heaters are fragile and make cleaning
>> quite a bit harder.
>>
>> >Or the massive great black on I got for free at a garage sale.
>> >The problem with that one is that you can see the water level
>> >accurately when you fill it so have to use a dip stick etc.
>>
>> Heh, I also got the same type of drum from garage sales a couple of
>> months ago, must be a good 40L. I'd never even thought about the fact
>> that it's not transparent, I still havent used it (obviously). Come
>> apple season time, I will though.
>
>Here's a thought: drill two holes in the can, one near the top and one
>near the bottom. Cut a length of clear plastic pipe about as long as
>the distance between the holes. Attach right-angle fittings (aka
>"elbows") to each end of the tube, and seal onto the can. If you can
>picture this, it would be a sort of "window" into the can, letting you
>see the level. It would be a bit of a hassle, but not too bad and not
>too expensive. It may also make cleaning a bit harder.

That would work, but as you say the cleaning would be tedious when the
krausen dries on it... I reckon I'll just get used to it after a
couple of uses.