Hello all, first off I want say thank you to everyone in here for being
a very helpful resource in the world of BBQ. After doing some research
in here and the BBQ FAQ's, I bought an electric charbroil water smoker
a few months ago. I've made some really good pulled pork on it. I'm
talking REALLY good pulled pork! ;-)

However, as for ribs, that's another story, and that's what I need help
with. I've done babyback ribs and I've done spare ribs, several times
each, and while they do taste very good, they are never as tender as
I'd like them to be. I'm cooking them at 220-230 degrees for 4 hours
typically. I've read in here that it's hard to overcook ribs and the
longer you cook them the more tender they get, so I tried leaving them
on 5 hours, and found no difference. I've also read that "tender" ribs
will be very floppy, and I have never had my ribs turn out floppy...
they're usually quite stiff.

Of course the first thing to look at here is my temperature. To be
sure I'm cooking "at" 220-230, I bought several analog grill
thermometers - the kind which are a round dial with a skinny metal
probe about 5 or 6 inches long. I've tested these using hot water and
they seem to measure the temperature primarily at the probe's tip. In
other words, the majority of the probe's length seems to have little
affect on the indicated temperature, and it measures mainly from the
probe's tip. So, I drilled holes around the perimeter of my smoker
right at the food level, and stuck the thermometer probes in. To me,
this appears a good way to measure the temperature at the food rack.
Am I doing this right?

So using the method I've described above, (I think) I am cooking my
ribs "at" 220-230 for 4+ hours and they never come out being "fall off
the bone" tender.

I have researched alt.food.barbecue and the FAQ's, and I can't really
find an answer that seems to work for me. I've tried water in the pan,
I've tried lava rocks in the pan. I've tried extending the cooking
time. None of that has worked for me.

So far, I always use the same rub and I always use store-bought vacuum
packaged ribs. I always use hickory wood chunks, and I always use the
upper food rack. I never mop, and I almost never open the lid and
peek.

Any suggestions? Should I maybe try meat from a butcher instead of the
franchise grocery stores? Or am I missing something else entirely?

Thanks in advance!

On 21-Jun-2005, "dakota2112" > wrote:

> Hello all, first off I want say thank you to everyone in here for being
> a very helpful resource in the world of BBQ. After doing some research
> in here and the BBQ FAQ's, I bought an electric charbroil water smoker
> a few months ago. I've made some really good pulled pork on it. I'm
> talking REALLY good pulled pork! ;-)
>
> However, as for ribs, that's another story, and that's what I need help
> with. I've done babyback ribs and I've done spare ribs, several times
> each, and while they do taste very good, they are never as tender as
> I'd like them to be. I'm cooking them at 220-230 degrees for 4 hours
> typically. I've read in here that it's hard to overcook ribs and the
> longer you cook them the more tender they get, so I tried leaving them
> on 5 hours, and found no difference. I've also read that "tender" ribs
> will be very floppy, and I have never had my ribs turn out floppy...
> they're usually quite stiff.
>
> Of course the first thing to look at here is my temperature. To be
> sure I'm cooking "at" 220-230, I bought several analog grill
> thermometers - the kind which are a round dial with a skinny metal
> probe about 5 or 6 inches long. I've tested these using hot water and
> they seem to measure the temperature primarily at the probe's tip. In
> other words, the majority of the probe's length seems to have little
> affect on the indicated temperature, and it measures mainly from the
> probe's tip. So, I drilled holes around the perimeter of my smoker
> right at the food level, and stuck the thermometer probes in. To me,
> this appears a good way to measure the temperature at the food rack.
> Am I doing this right?
>
> So using the method I've described above, (I think) I am cooking my
> ribs "at" 220-230 for 4+ hours and they never come out being "fall off
> the bone" tender.
>
> I have researched alt.food.barbecue and the FAQ's, and I can't really
> find an answer that seems to work for me. I've tried water in the pan,
> I've tried lava rocks in the pan. I've tried extending the cooking
> time. None of that has worked for me.
>
> So far, I always use the same rub and I always use store-bought vacuum
> packaged ribs. I always use hickory wood chunks, and I always use the
> upper food rack. I never mop, and I almost never open the lid and
> peek.
>
> Any suggestions? Should I maybe try meat from a butcher instead of the
> franchise grocery stores? Or am I missing something else entirely?
>
> Thanks in advance!

Dakota, the one element that makes ribs stiff is unconverted
collagen. The best test of when ribs are done is to bend the rack. If the
rack breaks somewhere in the middle when you bend it to 90° or so, it's
done. Otherwise, you might want to cook it some more.

There's no way to compare the time for one cook with another. Meat
varies a lot from one piece to the next. Nevermind that they are the same
size and came out of the same box. There can be an hour or more
difference in the cook time for two racks of ribs in the same cooker at the
same time.
--
The Brick® said that (Keep the shiny side up )

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On 21-Jun-2005, "dakota2112" > wrote:

> Hello all, first off I want say thank you to everyone in here for being
> a very helpful resource in the world of BBQ. After doing some research
> in here and the BBQ FAQ's, I bought an electric charbroil water smoker
> a few months ago. I've made some really good pulled pork on it. I'm
> talking REALLY good pulled pork! ;-)
>
> However, as for ribs, that's another story, and that's what I need help
> with. I've done babyback ribs and I've done spare ribs, several times
> each, and while they do taste very good, they are never as tender as
> I'd like them to be. I'm cooking them at 220-230 degrees for 4 hours
> typically. I've read in here that it's hard to overcook ribs and the
> longer you cook them the more tender they get, so I tried leaving them
> on 5 hours, and found no difference. I've also read that "tender" ribs
> will be very floppy, and I have never had my ribs turn out floppy...
> they're usually quite stiff.
>
> Of course the first thing to look at here is my temperature. To be
> sure I'm cooking "at" 220-230, I bought several analog grill
> thermometers - the kind which are a round dial with a skinny metal
> probe about 5 or 6 inches long. I've tested these using hot water and
> they seem to measure the temperature primarily at the probe's tip. In
> other words, the majority of the probe's length seems to have little
> affect on the indicated temperature, and it measures mainly from the
> probe's tip. So, I drilled holes around the perimeter of my smoker
> right at the food level, and stuck the thermometer probes in. To me,
> this appears a good way to measure the temperature at the food rack.
> Am I doing this right?
>
> So using the method I've described above, (I think) I am cooking my
> ribs "at" 220-230 for 4+ hours and they never come out being "fall off
> the bone" tender.
>
> I have researched alt.food.barbecue and the FAQ's, and I can't really
> find an answer that seems to work for me. I've tried water in the pan,
> I've tried lava rocks in the pan. I've tried extending the cooking
> time. None of that has worked for me.
>
> So far, I always use the same rub and I always use store-bought vacuum
> packaged ribs. I always use hickory wood chunks, and I always use the
> upper food rack. I never mop, and I almost never open the lid and
> peek.
>
> Any suggestions? Should I maybe try meat from a butcher instead of the
> franchise grocery stores? Or am I missing something else entirely?
>
> Thanks in advance!

Dakota, the one element that makes ribs stiff is unconverted
collagen. The best test of when ribs are done is to bend the rack. If the
rack breaks somewhere in the middle when you bend it to 90° or so, it's
done. Otherwise, you might want to cook it some more.

There's no way to compare the time for one cook with another. Meat
varies a lot from one piece to the next. Nevermind that they are the same
size and came out of the same box. There can be an hour or more
difference in the cook time for two racks of ribs in the same cooker at the
same time.
--
The Brick® said that (Keep the shiny side up )

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Although the meat "is done when it's done"...I find that a rack of
untrimmed spareribs will take 5 hours plus at 225....wait till they
start to crack apart when you pick up an end.

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Brick, thanks for the advice. I'll try letting them on longer next
time and doing the "bend test", even if it takes more than 5 hours. My
ribs also never seem to draw up on the bone very much, which I presume
is related to the collagen factor. I might also try getting my raw
meat from a different source just for kicks.

The reason I posed this question in the first place is, I recently took
a weekend road trip and ate at a BBQ house "where the locals eat" and I
was absolutely floored at how juicy and tender their ribs were. I
asked them their time & temp, and they said 225 for 3.5 hours. So I
said to myself "that's pretty much what I do, so what gives"!? ;-)

I think my problem has to do with the time needed to break the collagen
and perhaps the quality of the meat itself.

And I also have to question when I read or hear someone say they cook
at 225 for example, are they really measuring "at the food level" like
we're supposed to be doing, or are they looking at a lid thermometer
etc. For all I know, this BBQ house might really be cooking at a
temperature way different than 225.

I have the exact smoker you do. I made ribs last weekend and they took
about 7.5 to 8 hours. This was a whole rack of ribs, not baby's. And
honestly I think they could have gone another hour. They were some of the
best ribs I ever ate (for sure the best I ever made). But next time I may
go a little longer.
BTW, how long did the pulled pork take? I have a butt in the freezer just
waiting for the test.
Mark

Mark,

Wow, that's a long time for ribs! I'm wondering if I need to go longer
than 5 hours, even moreso now. It kind of defies common sense for me
though... I just can't grasp the notion that leaving these stiff ribs
on for more than 5 hours will somehow make them magically become juicy
and tender. Maybe I need to give it 6-7 hours and see what happens. I
also think I need to try getting my ribs from someplace besides the
franchise grocery store.

As for the pulled pork... I've done 7-pound butts a couple times, and
it took me close to 12 or 13 hours each time. Based on what I've read
in here, as well as my own experience, the goal is to get the meat's
internal temp up to at least 190. I usually smoke the butts at
220-230, but I found that to get that 190 internal temp, I had to crank
the smoker up to almost 250 for the final couple hours. The meat will
practically fall apart when it's ready to come off. Let it cool for a
half hour to an hour, and start pullin! (I'm getting hungry just
thinking about this ;-)

On 24-Jun-2005, "dakota2112" > wrote:

> Mark,
>
> Wow, that's a long time for ribs! I'm wondering if I need to go longer
> than 5 hours, even moreso now. It kind of defies common sense for me
> though... I just can't grasp the notion that leaving these stiff ribs
> on for more than 5 hours will somehow make them magically become juicy
> and tender. Maybe I need to give it 6-7 hours and see what happens. I
> also think I need to try getting my ribs from someplace besides the
> franchise grocery store.
>
> As for the pulled pork... I've done 7-pound butts a couple times, and
> it took me close to 12 or 13 hours each time. Based on what I've read
> in here, as well as my own experience, the goal is to get the meat's
> internal temp up to at least 190. I usually smoke the butts at
> 220-230, but I found that to get that 190 internal temp, I had to crank
> the smoker up to almost 250 for the final couple hours. The meat will
> practically fall apart when it's ready to come off. Let it cool for a
> half hour to an hour, and start pullin! (I'm getting hungry just
> thinking about this ;-)

You need to explore the idea of using more heat Mark. I did two racks
of spares last month and cooked a lot cooler then I usually do, ~220°.
I had a rib roast on at the same time and it was overdone at 2 hours.
The spares took a full six hours,but they were worth the wait.I normally
cook at 250° to 275°. I just wanted to see if my skill had improved
enough to run this cooker in the 220°/225° range if I wanted to.
--
The Brick® said that (Work harder; millions on welfare depend on you. )

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