I don't have any recipes for baking bread with a microwave oven.
I think microwaves ovens are not interchangeable, so a recipe from
a book with one microwave in mind might not work on another.

So far, I've been improvising. I tried just mixing some flour, water
and baking soda and putting it right in the microwave. If I simply let
it cook for a couple of minutes at full power, it gets all hard and dried
out and looks somewhat burned. If I cook it at the lowest possible power,
it dries out much more slowly and never seems to burn but also never seems
to quite cook. To deal with that last problem, I've let it cook for 1 minute
at full power. I've tried making rolls and small loaves and have obtained
results that I'm not sorry about having eaten but which don't really
seem like bread. They are quite dense. I'm hoping to do better once I
can let the dough rise, but I really need to have some rational way to
think about using the microwave for this.

I might be able to get some a few from the manufacturer, and maybe they
will suffice, but it would be nice to be able to go beyond that.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

Allan,

Some of the older microwave cookbooks have recipes for baking bread in
the microwave. As you have discovered, the bread doesn't turn out all
that well. Your best bet is to bake in a microwave convection oven.
Yeast breads bake without burning on top.

You can "bake" quick breads such as muffins fairly well though. I have
a wonderful MW Morning Glory Muffin recipe that I've used a long time.
My family enjoys the muffins when I "bake" them.

Mary

Allan Adler > wrote in message >...
> I don't have any recipes for baking bread with a microwave oven.
> I think microwaves ovens are not interchangeable, so a recipe from
> a book with one microwave in mind might not work on another.
>snippage...

"Allan Adler" > wrote in message
...
>
> I don't have any recipes for baking bread with a microwave oven.
> I think microwaves ovens are not interchangeable, so a recipe from
> a book with one microwave in mind might not work on another.
>
> So far, I've been improvising. I tried just mixing some flour, water
> and baking soda and putting it right in the microwave. If I simply let
> it cook for a couple of minutes at full power, it gets all hard and dried
> out and looks somewhat burned. If I cook it at the lowest possible power,
> it dries out much more slowly and never seems to burn but also never seems
> to quite cook. To deal with that last problem, I've let it cook for 1
minute
> at full power. I've tried making rolls and small loaves and have obtained
> results that I'm not sorry about having eaten but which don't really
> seem like bread. They are quite dense. I'm hoping to do better once I
> can let the dough rise, but I really need to have some rational way to
> think about using the microwave for this.
>
> I might be able to get some a few from the manufacturer, and maybe they
> will suffice, but it would be nice to be able to go beyond that.

First of all, if you are mixing flour, water and baking soda you are not
making what most people would recognize as bread. It might be a quick bread
or a cracker or just nasty. Without any acid, the baking soda will not
produce CO2, so technically, you don't have any leavening. Bread (without
any qualifiers like quick bread or flat bread) is a yeast raised product,
not a chemically leavened product. I would recommend that you go to a
bookstore and get a cookbook on microwave cooking. Large bookstores have
sections labeled "appliance cooking." That's where you would find the book.
There will be a discussion about various ovens, power levels, etc. I would
also suggest that you get a basic text on cooking such as Julia Child's "The
way to Cook" or an equivalent text that has information on basic techniques.
Finally, I don't think that you will be able to get any decent bread from a
conventional microwave. Since there is no radiant heat, there is no
browning. Browning not only contributes to the appearance of the baked
good, but also to the flavor and texture. Newer microwaves combine radiant
heat with microwave energy and yield better results than pure microwave
cooking. I love my convection microwave, but even it doesn't do as good a
job on bread on the mix setting (microwave + convection heat) as on the
convection bake setting (convection only).

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Allan Adler wrote:

>
> I don't have any recipes for baking bread with a microwave oven.
> I think microwaves ovens are not interchangeable, so a recipe from
> a book with one microwave in mind might not work on another.
>
> So far, I've been improvising. I tried just mixing some flour, water
> and baking soda and putting it right in the microwave. If I simply let
> it cook for a couple of minutes at full power, it gets all hard and dried
> out and looks somewhat burned. If I cook it at the lowest possible power,
> it dries out much more slowly and never seems to burn but also never seems
> to quite cook. To deal with that last problem, I've let it cook for 1 minute
> at full power. I've tried making rolls and small loaves and have obtained
> results that I'm not sorry about having eaten but which don't really
> seem like bread. They are quite dense. I'm hoping to do better once I
> can let the dough rise, but I really need to have some rational way to
> think about using the microwave for this.
>
> I might be able to get some a few from the manufacturer, and maybe they
> will suffice, but it would be nice to be able to go beyond that.

I believe you'd have to look at the science behind conventional ovens and
microwave ovens. They bake things using different principles. The facts
that make bread possible in a conventional oven are just not present in a
microwave. You would have to develop a new way to make bread.

For example, you need microwave popcorn. You cannot use regular popcorn.
The popcorn is not different. The bag that microwave popcorn comes in
makes the difference. Also, you can get special trays for cooking things
in a microwave that normally don't cook well in a microwave.

Maybe you need to develop a system for making the bread in the microwave.
Don't change the recipe but change the way the bread bakes. Maybe you need
to change the recipe as well.

> Ignorantly,
> Allan Adler
>
>
> ************************************************** **************************
> * *
> * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
> * Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
> * in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
> * metropolitan area. *
> * *
> ************************************************** **************************
>

--
Send e-mail to: darrell at cs dot toronto dot edu
Don't send e-mail to

"Darrell Grainger" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, Allan Adler wrote:
>
> >
> > I don't have any recipes for baking bread with a microwave oven.
> > I think microwaves ovens are not interchangeable, so a recipe from
> > a book with one microwave in mind might not work on another.
> >
> > So far, I've been improvising. I tried just mixing some flour, water
> > and baking soda and putting it right in the microwave. If I simply let
> > it cook for a couple of minutes at full power, it gets all hard and
dried
> > out and looks somewhat burned. If I cook it at the lowest possible
power,
> > it dries out much more slowly and never seems to burn but also never
seems
> > to quite cook. To deal with that last problem, I've let it cook for 1
minute
> > at full power. I've tried making rolls and small loaves and have
obtained
> > results that I'm not sorry about having eaten but which don't really
> > seem like bread. They are quite dense. I'm hoping to do better once I
> > can let the dough rise, but I really need to have some rational way to
> > think about using the microwave for this.
> >
> > I might be able to get some a few from the manufacturer, and maybe they
> > will suffice, but it would be nice to be able to go beyond that.
>
> I believe you'd have to look at the science behind conventional ovens and
> microwave ovens. They bake things using different principles. The facts
> that make bread possible in a conventional oven are just not present in a
> microwave. You would have to develop a new way to make bread.
>
> For example, you need microwave popcorn. You cannot use regular popcorn.
> The popcorn is not different. The bag that microwave popcorn comes in
> makes the difference. Also, you can get special trays for cooking things
> in a microwave that normally don't cook well in a microwave.
>
> Maybe you need to develop a system for making the bread in the microwave.
> Don't change the recipe but change the way the bread bakes. Maybe you need
> to change the recipe as well.
>

Unless I misunderstood something, he need to learn how to make bread first.
You don't make bread from flour, water, and baking soda. So, he does need
to change the recipe and perhaps the mixing method in addition to learning
how to use (or avoid using) a microwave for baking.

"Vox Humana" > writes:

> Unless I misunderstood something, he need to learn how to make bread first.
> You don't make bread from flour, water, and baking soda. So, he does need
> to change the recipe and perhaps the mixing method in addition to learning
> how to use (or avoid using) a microwave for baking.

Actually, I do know how to make bread, even if I don't know the formal
definition. I've made bread for decades in conventional ovens. However,
since I was experimenting this time, I didn't think it was worth going to
the trouble of doing it right only to have the microwave possibly stomp
on it. So, I did something I considered minimally in the direction
of bread. It isn't that far off, since it isn't very different from
the batter I mix for making pancakes in a frying pan: I consider Indian
chappatis and the big Ethiopian pancakes to be varieties of bread. Also,
I since some of what I am getting this way is edible and not displeasing,
even if it is not actually bread and has some drawbacks such as high
density, it wasn't unreasonable to hope that some genre of baking could
emerge from these efforts. I still think that is possible and others
might want to experiment with it too. Given the crudeness of my improvised
recipes, I'm inclined to consider the results somewhat successful.

The stuff I was making was generally not the size of full loaves but
more the size of rolls. They were so dense that I usually only wanted
to eat one slice at a time. Even when nothing else was added to it,
it was good enough to dunk in soup. It was also ok for spreading
cream cheese and marmalade on. Once I tried adding raisins and cinnamon
to the recipe and the results were not bad.

I never heard of convection microwaves and am glad to have learned about
them here. How much do they cost, typically?

It's true that the surface of the "bread" is fairly pale and doesn't looked
baked. Maybe that can be corrected by brushing the surface with egg white
or sugar water. I also tried making the "bread" flatter in the microwave.
Next time, I'll try frying the flat "dough" in a frying pan instead and
see how that works out. The results might be better and there will be
no problem with browning it. I'm less optimistic about trying this with
rolls in a frying pan.

I'm less concerned with the appearance than with the density. In other posts,
I asked about making my own yeast and was kindly informed about making
sourdough. So, maybe when I can let the dough rise the results will be
less dense.

The reason I'm trying these experiments is that my kitchen is a little
afterthought with no oven. So, I'm trying to manage with the appliances
I have. If that fails, I'll consider getting a toaster oven or something
like that.

I called the manufacturer, GE, and was informed that they have a 126 page
cookbook for their microwaves for about 7 dollars plus S&H.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

"Allan Adler" > wrote in message
...
> "Vox Humana" > writes:
>
> > Unless I misunderstood something, he need to learn how to make bread
first.
> > You don't make bread from flour, water, and baking soda. So, he does
need
> > to change the recipe and perhaps the mixing method in addition to
learning
> > how to use (or avoid using) a microwave for baking.
>
> Actually, I do know how to make bread, even if I don't know the formal
> definition. I've made bread for decades in conventional ovens. However,
> since I was experimenting this time, I didn't think it was worth going to
> the trouble of doing it right only to have the microwave possibly stomp
> on it. So, I did something I considered minimally in the direction
> of bread. It isn't that far off, since it isn't very different from
> the batter I mix for making pancakes in a frying pan: I consider Indian
> chappatis and the big Ethiopian pancakes to be varieties of bread. Also,
> I since some of what I am getting this way is edible and not displeasing,
> even if it is not actually bread and has some drawbacks such as high
> density, it wasn't unreasonable to hope that some genre of baking could
> emerge from these efforts. I still think that is possible and others
> might want to experiment with it too. Given the crudeness of my improvised
> recipes, I'm inclined to consider the results somewhat successful.
>
> The stuff I was making was generally not the size of full loaves but
> more the size of rolls. They were so dense that I usually only wanted
> to eat one slice at a time. Even when nothing else was added to it,
> it was good enough to dunk in soup. It was also ok for spreading
> cream cheese and marmalade on. Once I tried adding raisins and cinnamon
> to the recipe and the results were not bad.
>
> I never heard of convection microwaves and am glad to have learned about
> them here. How much do they cost, typically?
>
> It's true that the surface of the "bread" is fairly pale and doesn't
looked
> baked. Maybe that can be corrected by brushing the surface with egg white
> or sugar water. I also tried making the "bread" flatter in the microwave.
> Next time, I'll try frying the flat "dough" in a frying pan instead and
> see how that works out. The results might be better and there will be
> no problem with browning it. I'm less optimistic about trying this with
> rolls in a frying pan.
>
> I'm less concerned with the appearance than with the density. In other
posts,
> I asked about making my own yeast and was kindly informed about making
> sourdough. So, maybe when I can let the dough rise the results will be
> less dense.
>
> The reason I'm trying these experiments is that my kitchen is a little
> afterthought with no oven. So, I'm trying to manage with the appliances
> I have. If that fails, I'll consider getting a toaster oven or something
> like that.
>
> I called the manufacturer, GE, and was informed that they have a 126 page
> cookbook for their microwaves for about 7 dollars plus S&H.


One of the basic rules of experimentation is to change only one variable at
a time. In this case you not only altered the recipe, making something that
would be a failure in a conventional oven, but you changed the type of oven
you used. I would go back to your standard bread recipe and bake half of it
in your standard oven and half of it in the microwave and compare the
difference. I looked at an old microwave cookbook that came with a
microwave that I once owned. They had a standard one pound (3.5 cups of
flour) bread recipe. The instructions said to bake for 13 to 16 minutes at
50% power. Bread is done when the internal temperature reaches between 200F
and 210F. You might want to get an instant read thermometer if you don't
already have one so you can check the internal temperature. You might look
at some of the links in this search for information and recipes
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...rowave+recipes

All things considered, by using the microwave, you are only going to reduce
the baking time by about 15 minutes and the final product will suffer. Of
course you will save the time it takes to pre-heat you oven. Since the
entire bread making process takes several hours, I don't the see the point
in skimping on the last 16 minutes and have your final product come out
compromised. However, if you do feel that it is advantageous to save a few
minutes, I would consider one of the convection microwaves. The convection
bake setting on my oven uses 10% microwave power and defaults to 325F
(although you can change the temperature.) No preheating is required and the
baking time is cut approximately in half. Not only will you get a better
product with less baking time, you can set the oven to proof the bread.
While most people agree that a long, cool fermentation results in better
bread, for people in a hurry, the proof setting on the oven will save time.

As for the convection microwave ovens, you can get an idea of the features
and prices he
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=...microwave+oven
I have a Sharp unit and I really love it.

Thanks for the suggestions.

"Vox Humana" > writes:

> I would go back to your standard bread recipe and bake half of it
> in your standard oven and half of it in the microwave and compare the
> difference.
[snip]
> All things considered, by using the microwave, you are only going to reduce
> the baking time by about 15 minutes and the final product will suffer. Of
> course you will save the time it takes to pre-heat you oven. Since the
> entire bread making process takes several hours, I don't the see the point
> in skimping on the last 16 minutes and have your final product come out
> compromised.

As I mentioned in my posting, I don't have an oven. That's why I started
experimenting with the microwave.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************

On 21 Apr 2004 23:24:38 -0400
Allan Adler > wrote:

> minimally in the direction of bread. It isn't that far off, since it
> isn't very different from the batter I mix for making pancakes in a
> frying pan: I consider Indian chappatis and the big Ethiopian pancakes
> to be varieties of bread. Also, I since some of what I am getting this


Technically they are both crepes.

Allan Adler > wrote in message >...

> Actually, I do know how to make bread, even if I don't know the formal
> definition. I've made bread for decades in conventional ovens. However,
> since I was experimenting this time, I didn't think it was worth going to
> the trouble of doing it right only to have the microwave possibly stomp
> on it. So, I did something I considered minimally in the direction
> of bread. It isn't that far off, since it isn't very different from
> the batter I mix for making pancakes in a frying pan: I consider Indian
> chappatis and the big Ethiopian pancakes to be varieties of bread. Also,
> I since some of what I am getting this way is edible and not displeasing,
> even if it is not actually bread and has some drawbacks such as high
> density, it wasn't unreasonable to hope that some genre of baking could
> emerge from these efforts. I still think that is possible and others
> might want to experiment with it too.

I used to sucessfully make speciality rice apple cakes in the zapper.
Made from powdered rice (no wheat), apple chunks, baking powder and
water. I dont think there was anything else in them. Water content was
critical, I would certainly add some fat if trying that recipe now.

These were 1 roll sized things, made serially. I tried bigger items
but a zapper really cant heat anything larger with sufficient
evenness.

I'm trying to remember the cook time, something like 2 minutes on
full, or thereabouts.


> The stuff I was making was generally not the size of full loaves but
> more the size of rolls. They were so dense that I usually only wanted
> to eat one slice at a time. Even when nothing else was added to it,
> it was good enough to dunk in soup. It was also ok for spreading
> cream cheese and marmalade on. Once I tried adding raisins and cinnamon
> to the recipe and the results were not bad.
>
> I never heard of convection microwaves and am glad to have learned about
> them here. How much do they cost, typically?

in UK, 100-150 new. I dont see them about second hand.

> It's true that the surface of the "bread" is fairly pale and doesn't looked
> baked. Maybe that can be corrected by brushing the surface with egg white
> or sugar water.

I made those in a plastic bowl with straight sides, it was perfect,
but you wont get any crusting in a nuke. Thats just a non starter. The
closest you can get is drying out plus brown dye, so keep it soft.

> I also tried making the "bread" flatter in the microwave.

IME a small ball like disc is the only shape that works. Even heating
is the issue, flat things dont work. The container needs straight up
sides, small plastic storage jars are just right.

> Next time, I'll try frying the flat "dough" in a frying pan instead and
> see how that works out. The results might be better and there will be
> no problem with browning it. I'm less optimistic about trying this with
> rolls in a frying pan.

Yes I think this would be much better. Drop scones, waffles, no
problem. To make life easier I'd consider frying one huge one and
cutting it up, maximum yield per work that way.

> I'm less concerned with the appearance than with the density. In other posts,
> I asked about making my own yeast and was kindly informed about making
> sourdough. So, maybe when I can let the dough rise the results will be
> less dense.
>
> The reason I'm trying these experiments is that my kitchen is a little
> afterthought with no oven. So, I'm trying to manage with the appliances
> I have. If that fails, I'll consider getting a toaster oven or something
> like that.

those things are total junk, trust me. Hopeless. A candle is more
useful. I had one once as an overflow oven and I couldnt get it to do
anything successfully.


> I called the manufacturer, GE, and was informed that they have a 126 page
> cookbook for their microwaves for about 7 dollars plus S&H.

you didnt find anything online? Might find nuke cookbooks in used book
stores too.


Finally theres one last option. If youve got a ring/hob you can put a
wire tray in a metal biscuit tin, sit it on the gas and youve got
yourself an oven. With trial you can find a heat setting that bakes
well. This was done more often in the early 20th century, with
paraffin cookers etc. Overdo the heat and your oven melts

If youre doing all this because of budget, dont make the wire tray
from copper wire, it reacts with the bread to form toxic green copper
compounds.

If you want to make it a proper calibrated oven, Mrs Beeton tells you
how to calibrate an oven with no temperature dial or thermometer. Its
a matter of how long a bit of flour takes to go brown. Then you can
use it for any book recipe.


Regards, NT

(N. Thornton) writes:

> I used to sucessfully make speciality rice apple cakes in the zapper.
> Made from powdered rice (no wheat), apple chunks, baking powder and
> water. I dont think there was anything else in them. Water content was
> critical, I would certainly add some fat if trying that recipe now.

Is "powdered rice" the same as rice flour?

It's good to know it will also work without fat, since I'm trying not
to use it in my cooking.

> These were 1 roll sized things, made serially. I tried bigger items
> but a zapper really cant heat anything larger with sufficient
> evenness.
> I'm trying to remember the cook time, something like 2 minutes on
> full, or thereabouts.

What was the wattage of the microwave and the power level you used?

> Finally theres one last option. If youve got a ring/hob you can put a
> wire tray in a metal biscuit tin, sit it on the gas and youve got
> yourself an oven. With trial you can find a heat setting that bakes
> well. This was done more often in the early 20th century, with
> paraffin cookers etc. Overdo the heat and your oven melts

I'm not sure I understand. First, I don't know what a ring/hob is.
It suggests to me something like the thing a wok rests on while you
are cooking with it. Second, I don't understand what a wire tray is.
I've never seen one.

If I were going to improvise an oven, and I've done so on occasion for
other purposes, I would just take a frying pan and the lid of a sauce
pan, put whatever I'm cooking in the frying pan and cover it with the
lid to hold the heat in. I can't let it get too hot because the plastic
handle of the lid will melt or burn. I considered that for making
bread or rolls but I think the dough would be in too direct thermal
contact with the flame. Maybe what you are saying about the wire screen
simply refers to a platform that the dough can sit on inside the "oven",
such as I described it, and such that the part it is actually sitting on
is a wire mesh, so that direct thermal conduction is minimized and instead
the hot air cooks the dough.

> If youre doing all this because of budget, dont make the wire tray
> from copper wire, it reacts with the bread to form toxic green copper
> compounds.

Thanks for pointing that out. I noticed from your other posting that you are
alert to the ways people can accidentally poison themselves while cooking.
Maybe someone should write a cookbook full of such recipes, entitled "The
Lucrezia Borgia Cookbook".

I once talked to a chemist who showed me an article on some culinary
benefits to beating eggs in a copper bowl. Something about Cu++.

I'm not planning to make my own wire platform, although I'm interested
in metal work (but only a beginner). Where does one purchase stuff like that?

I did make something using wire mesh for sifting sand for casting metal.
It used, I think, aluminum mesh, with holes about a half an inch
square or less, and nailed it to a wooden frame. I don't know if it would
be ok to use the same kind of mesh for supporting dough.

Ignorantly,
Allan Adler


************************************************** **************************
* *
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial *
* Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect *
* in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston *
* metropolitan area. *
* *
************************************************** **************************