On 4/7/04 10:43 AM, "Dave Bazell" > wrote:

> Hi Kenneth,
>
>>> 2) trying to get more sour flavor. I think using more starter should
> help
>>> since it is sour. I also think longer fermentation should help since the
>>> sponge is pretty sour to the taste before I make the dough. Letting
> things
>>> sit longer should allow appropriate growth.
>>
>>
>> In my experience, the extent of sour in the final loaf related not to
>> the proportion of starter, but rather to the extent of the final
>> fermentation before the bake.
> OK, I have read that too. How long can I ferment? I can keep the dough in
> the fridge for several days probably. I will try that next. I can always
> punch down if it rises too much.
>
>> Also, the sour taste of the starter probably indicates that it has
>> fermented too long, that is, beyond the point at which it should have
>> been fed.
>>
> Hmm, that's interesting. I started this starter in early February and have
> not fed it since then. I just take some out and add flour and water. It
> does have a layer of hooch. It seems to work perfectly well though. A
> little starter and flour and water perks up great. I will try refreshing it
> a couple of times and then make some sponge and see what the results are
> like.
>>
>>>
>>
>> In my experience, increasing the hydration, and lowering the protein
>> level both increase the coarseness of the crumb (translating to
>> English "both increase the size of the holes.) Also, more kneading
>> leads to a finer crumb. In fact, for many of my "rustic" breads I do
>> not knead at all. I just mix the ingredients enough to assure that
>> there are no "pockets" of dry flour...
>>
> Great I will try less kneading.
>
>> HTH,
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>

Dave,

Kenneth has given good advice above. I think good sourdough boils down to
two essential principles...

1) Use FRESH starter
2) bake AGED dough

In addition to Kenneth's suggestions I would offer the following.

1) Refresh your starter, building to about 800 grams at 100 hydration.
2) Take 600 grams and construct a mini loaf, very wet, 80% hydration. Let
sit at room temp 2 hours then refrigerate. If you build it dryer it's hard
to incorporate in step 4.
3) Continue your normal build the next day after again refreshing your 200g.
remainder.
4) Combine the regular build with the aged mini-loaf, adjust to get overall
hydration to about 68%. Age this combined result one day in refrigerator.
5) Let come to room temp, shape, proof for 4 to 6 hours. NO LONGER. Bake
HOT. Minimum 450 degrees.

This is an old baker's trick to leverage acidity without impacting typical
fermentation PH ranges (which you need for the big holes). You also need
major heat for the big holes. Heat creates more gas more quickly.

Sort of like with water: simmering water = small bubbles. boiling water =
large bubbles.

Will





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