Samartha Deva > wrote in message >...
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> Ok I see what you mean. The pumpernickels from the store and driven by
> yeast are done with an industrial process and what they do is probably
> scald the flour/schrot to get it softened. That's an assumption.
>
> If you could name the brand of the bread you are talking about, I will
> go and look if I can find it at the store.
I threw away the wrapping, but I will post a followup when I buy
another loaf.
>
> My thinking at this point about the color is that it may depend a lot on
> the rye used. There appear to be color variations and the choices on rye
> varieties in US is to be happy to get _one_ decent grain and if you can
> get it, buy a 3 year supply because you may never get it again.
>
> > I am interested in how much water loss other people experience making
> > pumpernickel, and also how sour the dough gets prior to baking, i.e.
> > can you hear the CO2 escaping through the dough, is it a sharp whiff
> > when smelling it?
>
> The water loss/drying out is definitely an issue with this method, not
> to say _the_ issue to solve.
> Whatever opening there is in the dough enclosure, it will allow moisture
> to escape and with the long baking time, the loaf will dry out.
>
> What you could do it to close the oven vent holes to avoid steam loss. I
> do this with duct tape and it sure helps with baking bread - haven't
> done it with pumpernickels, though.
That is sopmething I may try out. No fire hazard?
>
> The fermentation and sourness is another issue.
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> On the "sketchy notes" page, you see that it's only 10 % starter of
> total dough. That's about 8.5 % starter flour (baker's %). Normally,
> with a 100 % rye bread, one would use something like 40/50 %. Now,
> that's done (the 10% with pumpernickel) to allow for the long
> baking/fermentation and avoid excessive sourness.

It might be even worse than that, if I remember right, the recipe
calls for 1050g starter for 18.2Kg dough,
>
> I am not sure, if you considered that with your recipe. Also, I used
> only 3 hours dough fermentation because of this issue.
>
> Another factor to influence acidity is how you grow your starter,
> although the portion is relatively small with this, but I never had to
> fiddle on that and with pumpernickel.
I have grown my starter at room temperature until now (15 - 18 degrees
in the winter, maybe up to 25 degree C in the summer), but I will
start growing the starter at 30 degree C, if I understood the FAQ's
correctly, this will give more lactic acid, and less vinegar.
>
> > I have tried using extra aluminum foil to retain more water, but I end
> > up with a "doughy" bread.
>
> Now, you seem to be successful with retaining moisture with your setup.
>
> About the "doghyness" - was it hardening after maybe 24 hours or did it
> remain doughy?
Some remained moist enough that there is lots of residue on the side
of the breadknife.
>
> Mine are totally soft and "doughy" in the inner parts, but this hardens
> after a while.
>
> The Pumpernickels I get from this process are not the almost black/dark
> one's you see sometimes sold in cans. That's another tinkering project.
> What I get is fairly dark - definitely darker as the darker "Rye-Ola
> Pumpernickel" (with molasses) from Rubschlager.
>
> Curious: with your aluminum foil - did you notice any corrosion?
I have used non-stick breadpans (non-stick applied to a breadpan is a
lie in class with "honest politician", and "peace after Sudetenland"),
and stainless steel breadpans, and I have never seen any corosion due
to the aluminum foil. The non-sticks though, have rust spots in the
bottom from prolonged contact with water where the coating has flaked
off. I have demoted the non sticks to water containers in the bottom
of the oven, and use stainless exclusively for baking. (The non-sticks
had a 5 years warrenty, I replaced them once, and calculated that with
my baking habits, I gould get about 10 replacements in a 5 year time
period, but it is too annoying.)
>
> Samartha

Jan