Dave,

Couple of points:

If the previous poster is right and your dough is 67 percent and you're
using the bread flour you should get a rise. I use bread flour at 74 percent
hydration (water as percentage of flour) and get a rise. I think the
problem is in your rising times and starter and so you need to experiment. I
find it very hard to duplicate sourdough recipes since temperature/type of
starter vary from house to house.

1. Try using the starter once it's doubled in size and is frothy. Forget the
retard in the refrigerator for now. That cold air slows down the activity
and then it's got to get going again once you mix the dough.

2. Mix the dough and on the first rise cut your rising time until the dough
has just doubled in size. Don't let is rise so far that the surface gets
wavy like like flabby skin. The dough should be taught on this rise - it
should look like a surface that is tight from expansion - bakers talk about
the look and feel of a baby's bottom!

3. Try the baskets but if you want but again rising time is key. Try to
under-proof the loaf (less than full rise). You should then get oven spring
when you put it into the oven and get a blowout (a break in the crust) as
the yeast tries to expand. You can work back from there, increasing your
rising time to prevent a blow out but still getting the oven spring.

As an example, I'm using a very active sourdough I've been using for a few
years. It can double after feeding in 4 fours. The first rise takes only 2.5
hours, and the second rise 45 minutes to 1-1/4 hours and then it's into the
oven. If I let it go longer, the yeast activity dissipates and the bread
doesn't get an oven spring. But these times are far less than the recipe (3
hours first rise, 3 hours second rise). I sent the same starter to a friend
in Colorado, and he eventually found his ideal first rise took 6 hours! So
it really depends on the environment.



on 2/12/04 3:10 PM, Dave Bazell wrote:

> I have finally gotten my home made starter to work. It is nice and bubbly
> and frothy before I make the dough. I use King Arthur bread flour, but when
> I make the dough and let it rise, it tends to flatten out and spread,
> resulting in rather flat but good sourdough bread. I have tried adding more
> flour assuming that the dough is too wet, but that didn't seem to help. The
> basic recipe I follow is from Crust and Crumb for San Francisco Sourdough.
> It is reproduced below.
>
> Perhaps I am letting it rise too long? The bread has nice push when I put
> it in the oven, but it still ends up rather flat.
>
> I could be that the dough is too wet because it is not perfectly clear to me
> how wet the starter should be and how firm the firm starter should be.
>
> The recipie I follow:
>
> Firm starter:
>
> 2C barm starter (rather wet and bubbly and frothy, mmm....)
> 2C flour
>
> Mix ingredients. Let the firm starter rise for about 4 hours then let it
> sit overnight in the refrigerator.
>
> 2 C Firm starter
> 6 C Flour
> 1 T salt
> 1 1/4 t sugar
> 2 C cool water
>
> Roughly, I mix the ingredients, make sure dough passes the window pane test,
> and let rise for about 4 hours at room temperature. As the recipie says, it
> doesn't rise much up to now. Then I form into loaves, let rise another 4
> hours, during which the dough increases in size by about 50%, but tends to
> flatten. I then bake at 475F for about 5 minutes, turn temp down to 450 for
> another 20-30. But the damage is done before it gets into the oven.
>
> Thanks for any feedback,
>
> Dave
>
>