On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 15:34:51 GMT, "Dick Adams" >
wrote:

>Anyway, "Dr. Bob" will no doubt
>rise to your occasion, at least to the extent of startermuckery.

No, I will leave that to the experts.

My comments are as follows:

1. Kneading: According to the bakers at King Arthur Flour, you should
do only two kneadings, the first for about 30 seconds - just enough to
mix the ingredients - and then let the dough rest for 20 minutes
(autolyse phase), then knead in a bread machine for 7 minutes. That's
it - no more kneading or, as you point out, you will "tear" the
gluten.

NB: To find this article I have to give you directions because KA
changes the URL to their web pages periodically. Start at
<www.kingarthurflour.com>. Click on "Online Classes" on the left
NavBar. Then click on "Breads from the hearth". Then click on
"Baguettes". Scroll down to the sections entitled "Mixing the dough"
and "Kneading the dough".

2. Testing: I have found that the drinking glass test works reasonably
well in determining the limit of slackness. Start from the
over-hydrated side and add small amounts of flour until a drinking
glass punched into the dough comes out with no dough sticking to it.

That would be about 70-80% hydration depending on how you correct for
humidity and other errors.

I find a dough made from 4 cups flour, 1 1/2 cups water and 1 tsp salt
is slack enough for sourdough yet firm enough to hold its shape for
the final rise. I include the flour and water from the starter in the
above amounts.

HTH