On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 15:47:48 +0000, Martin Willett
> wrote:

>Pete ‹(•¿•)› wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:16:05 +0000, Martin Willett
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Pete ‹(•¿•)› wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:00:18 +0000, Martin Willett
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pete ‹(•¿•)› wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:50:45 -0600, Alan Moorman >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 19:31:45 -0500, dh@. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>>>>>>>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>>>>>>>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>>>>>>>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>>>>>>>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>>>>>>>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>>>>>>>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>>>>>>>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>>>>>>>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>>>>>>>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>>>>>>>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·
>>>>>>> I'm not a vegetarian, but here are some thoughts:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most cattle, be they meat or milk sources, are NOT raised on
>>>>>>> grass. They are raised on grain which costs a LOT in terms
>>>>>>> of all the machinery used to plant, cultivate, and harvest
>>>>>>> them. Lots of petroleum burned.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not to mention all the pesticides and fertilizer which are
>>>>>>> sprayed on the grains to help them grow. Some of these are
>>>>>>> made from petroleum, and all that factories which burn lots
>>>>>>> of energy to make.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise for most other animals we eat -- chickens, pigs,
>>>>>>> etc. The amount of energy expended to feed and raise
>>>>>>> animals for meat is incredible, and unnecessary!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eating vegetarian food eliminates COMPLETELY the vast waste
>>>>>>> and expense involved in raising meat animals for human
>>>>>>> consumption.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still eat meat, but there are VERY good arguments for all
>>>>>>> of us eating vegetarian (only).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Makes sense.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>> So what would happen to the farmer growing the crop that feeds the
>>>>> animals?
>>>> He would need actually do some work for a change, but if he was
>>>> prepared to, he could go organic and feed all of us with veggie
>>>> produce.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You can't have it all ways you know. If feeding animals is less
>>> efficient than feeding us cattle food then what will happen to all the
>>> land that is currently "wasted" feeding cattle?
>>
>> It would still be used for making crops to make veggies, biofuels,
>> clothing etc
>>
>>> Where will the money
>>> come from to pay to use that land?
>>
>> Us, the public.
>
>You won't need as much land to grow food, you won't demand any more
>food, so you spend the money on DVDs or home furnishings or holidays
>instead, you won't go out of your way to ensure your money continues to
>be spent on agricultural products.
>
>>
>> Not sure what trip you're on. Life goes on but without the farmed
>> animals. This would actually enable the world to continue to be
>> sustainable for the foreseeable future, currently it ISNT!
>>
>>> The starving haven't got any money.
>>
>> What's that got to do with anything?
>
>Money is what determines what gets planted and harvested. Vegetarians
>are forever suggesting that somehow eating meat is stealing food from
>the mouths of the starving, it isn't. Or even not eating meat will
>magically reverse that process that isn't happening leading to the
>poor's food bowls magically filling up. The starving are not staring
>because people eat meat but because they haven't got any money, they
>will be just as poor if nobody eats meat.
>
>>
>>> What will happen to all the land that can only be used to grow grass?
>>> Will we abandon it or will we learn how to eat grass?
>>
>> Any land that is suitable for cattle, pigs etc, is suitable for
>> growing a crop. The hills that currently graze sheep (which no one
>> likes as it destroys the hills) will revert to natural havens for us
>> and wildlife.
>
>
>And the farmers will do what? Happily munch tofu burgers content that
>they are saving the planet?
>
>Sheep destroy hills? Does the National Park service know about this?
>
>>
>>> There are good arguments for eating less meat and only eating less
>>> intensively raised meat but there are not good practical health,
>>> economic or environmental reasons to stop eating all meat all together.
>>
>> We simply do not NEED to eat meat. That's a fact.
>
>You do not need most of what you own and most of what you do. Why don't
>you stop it at once because some people might think it's immoral.
>
>>
>>> The only reason to give up meat all together is to feel smug and
>>> superior, a feeling that can only be maintained if "the great fight" is
>>> never actually won. That is why vegetarians come up with such lame ideas
>>> trying to persuade other people to make the same decision they did but
>>> for different reasons.
>>
>> What an idiotic idea. Since when has looking after ourselves, and the
>> planet been some warped ego trip?
>
>Since you start to think like you are some sort of superhero saving the
>entire planet just because you choose something else for dinner.
>
>>
>> Really weird thoughts you're having.
>
>Original thinking is what I do. Nobody tells me what to think.

Though your name was Dutch! Your socks are slipping old chap.
--









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