"sosessyithurts" > wrote:
>
> the underlying problem abroad is immorality
>
> according to whos standard? well lets just use our forefathers
> standards
> thats good enough.

to me, it is, and it isn't. The puritans (which is what our oldest
"forefathers"
were for the most part) inspired some of the sickest sexual deviations
there are. As did the Victorians. How? By repressing normal sexuality
and making it forbidden and "dirty." While it was good for society for
people not to just breed indiscriminantly with men abandoning women and
women babies, etc., this type of repression is not a good thing in the long
run.When people come to associate sexual desire with the forbidden and
taboo, we get harmful perversions like pedophilia and sadomasochism.
Crimes like child abuse and rape. The message should not have been,
Marriage good! Sex bad! It should have been Marriage good! Sex
Wonderful! Try to keep sex within marriage!

Basic Christian principles, such as "the Golden Rule" and forgiveness,
humility, faithfulness to spouse, and being of service to others, are a
different thing and really have, in my view, shaped our society in good
ways. Before anyone screams at me, I acknowledge that many people
have perverted Christianity to serve their own agendas. I do not consider
discrimination against homosexuals to be true Christian behavior. In fact
I do not consider ANY hateful behavior to fall within the tenets of true
Christian behavior. That includes prohibiting birth control or attempting
to legislate whether or not women must carry pregnancies to term. But
that is another issue, or, really, a whole hornet's nest.

>
> im not getting on a soapbox, not at all... but we came this far based
> on good, as you say good management, I also want to ad.. good morality.

I see your point, but as a nation, we have a very bad moral track record.
The attempted genocide of Native Americans, slavery, oppressive practices
with regard to women's intellectual development and legal equality, the
complete rape of the land by the moguls of the 1800s, the incredible
fouling of air and water all for what was termed "progress," i.e. money
in the pockets of a few greedy rich ... the list goes on and on. These to
me are issues of morality that are far greater than those concerning who
or what we have sex with, and even what we consume. The industrialists
are responsible for millions of deaths--from many causes--cancer being
the one that comes most readily to mind. Ever look at a cancer map of
the US? Color coded to show the locations and number of occurances
of different types of cancer? For "some reason" the densest areas are
in the huge filthy cities, particularly in the northeast, which was of
course
the first settled area.

>
> immorality leads to a whole snorkel full of social ails
>
> for example... how does the local bar proffit america, it does not.
> it makes a bibber out of it's patrons, the bibber drives home but kills
> people on the way home (drunk driving)... he... goes home and slaps his
> wife around...
> he... does NOT go to work the next day cause his head feels like stone.
> so the bibber becomes a liability not an asset.
>
> so from a corporate standpoint the local bar (not even considering
> wether drunkeness is moral or not.. it's not the point) is a bad
> business idea.
>
> Seems to me we should trim the fat, plug up the holes
>
> how often is alcohol involved in violent crimes?
> Why should the gov't run their own liqour business... it's stupid
> The liquor business is one that shoots itself in the foot.
>
> I like having a beer or wine or shot of something... but I should be
> willing to forgo my freedom because this one or that one will not
> control they selves

Prohibition has been tried, and created more alcoholics than any other
social movement. Forbid it, and they will flock to it. Why is the state
running liquor stores in Virginia? Because during prohibition so many
people were making their own liquor, large quantities were so bad
they could kill. And many people were killed in mob violence and police
actions involving "bootlegging." It was a huge industry! And the state
figured, why not regulate it to keep it safe and make the money ourselves.

Prohibition then, creates more problems than it solves. But I agree with
you about the sad and terrible things addiction and overuse of alcohol
can do to families and society in general.

There is an excellent book entitled "Drug Control in a Free Society"
published in the 1990s that suggests that there is a human drive
toward altering our states of consciousness. Evidence? Since the
dawn of man, if you could ferment it, people did, and consumed
it for its effect on their central nervous system. Or smoke it, or
otherwise process it in order to produce an intoxicant. Are all
those people evil? Hell, no. The author argues that the thing to
do is to regulate and keep the practice safe, not to prohibit it.
Just food for thought.


> it's a phukin shame too
>
> i beg of you sir.. don't get me started

Please do not give Asshole Joe more respect than he is due.
You're a nicer person than he is, but still.

>
>[..]

> Im saying these things because it's not as simple as ONE MAN makingi a
> decision
> ie bush
>
> if the WHOLE has phuked it up.. then one man cannot fix it.

IT TAKES A VILLAGE, hahaha! Go, Hillary!

>[...]>
> if someone doesn't like this persons agenda, then they shouuld launch a
> campaign to over shadow the agenda.
>
> ah boo hoo! so sorry this one or that one doesn't like the way things
> are going.
>
> We all see.. in-justices every day, we all see nepotism every day.
>
> One soul can change a world forever. I believe this.
> It doesn't matter if the soul is black, white, red, yellow, protestant,
> catholic, heathen, reptilian or republican... one soul can make a
> difference
>
[...]

> I am for the morning after pill
> I am more for absitenance
> I am for cutting lose all the branches that do not produce fruit, or
> whos fruit is bad.
>

BARRY for PRESIDENT!

He can't spell but by God he can think. And THAT, Joespare you asshole, puts
him head and shoulders above Bush. Meanness is what puts you kneehigh to
Bush's asshole.