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Old 06-09-2006, 10:37 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.rural,,talk.politics.animals
pearl[_1_] pearl[_1_] is offline
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Default "collateral included deaths in organic rice production [faq]"

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:54:22 +0100, "pearl" wrote:

A few might hop in from the field margins.. same as they can hop out.

LOL. I mean: Why would they be in "the field margins", and how
would they get there?

Why wouldn't they? They like humid areas with still shallow pools.
Margins left untouched would provide permanent habitat for frogs.

yes, but diderot led me to believe that most of them were
tree frogs who could survive in the stalks until the harverster came

Where did all these frogs come from, after supposedly being
slaughtered year in, year out?

diderot was nice enough to exchange some emails with me,

I bet! - you're a ready sucker,

LOL! That coming from someone who believes there are
superior beings living in the center of the Earth is pretty
damn funny.

I've plenty of reason to believe that.

Like what?

I've posted a link to a well-researched site before, just for you.

I don't believe you, but would like to see you try.

I'm not giving it to you again.

You dis-believe without reason.

I have good reason. If it were true, I have good reason to believe
people in general would have learned about it because research
teams would have found the entrances, gone in, studied it, made
videos, and made money by presenting what they learned to the
public like they do with other things of interest.

That has happened.

You're the only person I've ever known of to think so. Do you
always believe that btw, or do you sometimes think they don't
exist like you sometimes think there are no frogs in rice fields?

You mean, like you believe in a biblical plague of frogs in rice fields.

There are many written accounts by explorers, researchers and others.

No video that I'm aware of, sorry, but I did link to an unusual photo.

You and others like you ridicule everything.

Not everything, but that's more than you can comprehend
obviously or you wouldn't have made the claim.

I know it from your previous abusive non-response.

and an unabashed propagandist.

and that was a question I asked him about. He said the water
they use to flood the fields comes from rivers and/or creeks
which have frogs etc living in them already. So they come from

Why would they move from their established habitat? Some frogs
live near rivers or creeks, but they don't actually live -in- the water
of moving rivers and creeks, nor do they spawn in moving water.
Why don't you do a little research?

I'll just ask you what you asked me: where do they come from?
IF you think they don't get killed when the fields dry, but still think
they "easily move on as the fields dry", they're still GONE. So again,
where do you think they come from?

I don't think that 'they' are there!

But you did last week. Why did you think so last week but not
this week, have you any idea?

I said that some might be there.

You emphatically stated that you "don't think that 'they' are there!"
Now you're amusingly trying to pretend differently.

'they', as in the hundreds of thousands alleged - "the green waterfall".

Not the hundreds of thousands you claim.

How many? How could you possibly have any clue? Present some
info from a reliable source to back up your absurd sounding claim.

I have backed up logical common sense with an email from a bona fide
organic rice-farmer. -You- have yet to support your fantastical claim.

You can't answer that one. At "best" all you can do is hurl insults
and sulk away from it.

You haven't answered the question.

Which one?

How all 'these' frogs got there in the first place. diderot lied to you.

The only thing to suggest that diderot lied is YOU, and you're insane.
YOU need to explain why frogs and tadpoles could not get into rice
fields when they are flooded with water from rives and/or creeks.

I have explained. Rivers and creeks - deep moving bodies of water - aren't
teeming with frogs! Not even in Texas. Frogs live in still, shallow pools.

And if his claims were true, a
seasonal wholesale slaughter of frogs would be well-documented.

Who would document it? Why?

Amphibian watchers, .. agricultural sites, .. ecological sites..

So you're saying there are no cds involved with any crop production,
and if there were it would be well documented and posted on
agricultural and ecological sites? Or are you trying to get us to believe
that's only true in the case of rice for some reason(s)?

Amphibians are in serious trouble, so it would be well-documented.
And yes, - if the mass carnage you'd like us to believe happens in
crop production was a fact, that too would be well-documented.

So you're saying that people should give no thought to cds involved
with any type of crop production? How about wood and paper production?
Construction of roads and building? Mining operations? Production of

Yes, it is documented, where or when it occurs. If such a major thing
as you are claiming happens, it would most certainly be documented.

If diderot exagerated, it was to make people aware of the
deaths caused by rice production.

diderot told wholesale porkies in order to try to blur the line
between deaths in crop production and in the livestock industry.

diderot told people about cds that you "aras" obviously
could not care less about, and in fact do NOT want people
to be aware of. Disgusting!!!

diderot told people lies about cds. And you swallowed it whole.

Animals are killed in rice production, and you disgustingly want
people to believe otherwise.

You claim they are, and without any evidence to substantiate those
outlandish claims, you disgustingly want people to believe it's fact.

As I said, I have seen grasshoppers etc hopping all over the
bush hog I've mowed with. If there were frogs as well they would
be doing the same. Rice harvesters being of different design
would allow for less hopping on the equipmet and make for more
going through it. I have presented pictures of frogs in rice fields:

"rice visitor" - one frog.

one frog. looks like the field's been cropped..

two frogs - could be anywhere.

"Frog in the Rice". - one frog.

This animal is even called a Rice Frog:

I don't see where it's called a "rice frog",
and he's sitting on a low branch.

so is this one:

I don't see where it's called a "rice frog",
and that's certainly not a rice field.

and this one:

I don't see where it's called a "rice frog",
and he's sitting on a massive rock.

This one is called a Rice Paddy Frog:

I don't see where it's called a "rice paddy frog",
and that's certainly not a rice field either.

You probably won't be able to see it here either since
you only see and believe what you want to, but it's here
none the less in case more honest people have any
interest in the subject:

I still don't see these alleged hundreds of thousands. Do you?

yet you absurdly, stupidly and either ignorantly or dishonestly
now claim that there are no frogs in rice production.

No. You absurdly, stupidly and either ignorantly or dishonestly
post pictures of individual frogs- most of which are clearly not
in rice fields, in attempted support of # hundreds of thousands.

__________________________________________________ _______
Fish, frogs, snails, insects, and other aquatic organisms that thrive in

"in conjuction" means 'joined to'. In the areas described below,
harvesting is manual, and therefore the wildlife can thrive as the
fields and surrounding areas will serve as an established habitat.

If you went in there with a mechanic harvester, yes, you'd likely
get your "green waterfall" - once. That's an ecosystem gone.

with rice are a source of animal protein and essential fatty
acids. In addition, various kinds of livestock are supported by rice-based
systems. Ducks feed on small fish, other aquatic organisms, and weeds
within the paddy fields, while buffaloes, cattle, sheep and goats graze on
rice straw as their main food source in rice-producing areas.
__________________________________________________ _______
Thousands of frogs which keep BPH under check were caught from
paddy fields
__________________________________________________ _______
As I type, I am listening to the din of the thousands of frogs that inhabit the
rice field right next to my home
__________________________________________________ _______
at night we were eaten alive by the millions of mosquitoes that bred in the
paddy fields directly opposite and all around the camp. At night too there
was a deafening orchestra of thousands upon thousands of frogs
__________________________________________________ _______
when we opened the window at night, we heard thousands of frogs croaking
their spring song from the rice fields nearby.
__________________________________________________ _______
During the late summer, you had to be careful where you stepped. Thousands
of frogs hopped around on the ground, a product of the monsoon season, and
the rice paddies that were everywhere. Patty hated to step on them, but
sometimes it just happened. The corridor and ready room floors were always a
mess due to frog guts from their boots.