dh@. wrote:
> On 30 Aug 2006 01:12:03 -0700, "Rupert" > wrote:
>
> >
> >dh@. wrote:
> >> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:35:02 +0100, brother > wrote:
> >>
> >> >dh@. wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 22:13:25 +0100, brother > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>> __________________________________________________ __________
> >> >>>> From: diderot >
> >> >>>> Subject: collateral included deaths in organic rice production [faq]
> >> >>>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:21:44 EDT
> >> >>>> Newsgroups: alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animal s,rec.food.veg
> >> >>>> Message-ID: >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> This is seven year old uncorroborated hearsay
> >> >>
> >> >> It's first hand observation from a rice farmer.
> >> >
> >> >It's the intellectual equivalent of using the evidence from somebody you
> >> >met at a bar.
> >> >
> >> >He says he's driven a tractor, thousands of miles. - I can believe that!
> >> >
> >> >Then he says "We have organic as well as conventional farms". Ask
> >> >yourself; 'Who is he referring to when he says "we"?'For all I know he
> >> >could be referring to the population of Texas.
> >>
> >> "the facts, data, assumptions and conclusions, while developed
> >> on two organic rice farms (900 and 160 acres) and one 'conventional'
> >> rice farm of 1340 acres in colorado county, texas" - diderot
> >>
> >> If you think the "population of Texas" only has two organic rice
> >> farms and one conventional rice farm in the whole state, you're
> >> incredibly "naive" to say the very least, but for your sake (though
> >> none of the readers' sake) let's hope you're being deliberately
> >> dishonest about that stupid suggestion.
> >>
> >> >Do you REALLY think that there are more than 5 amphibians in every
> >> >square FOOT of rice?
> >>
> >> Paste the quote. I believe he was referring to eggs, tadpoles,
> >> and adults. There may be thousands of eggs in one square foot,
> >> and a hundred tadpoles in another...averaging out to 5 or more in
> >> the big picture.
> >>
> >
> >It's a pretty big assumption that ethical vegetarians have an ethical
> >problem with destroying an egg.
>
> LOL! As we can see by the replys, supposedly "ethical" vegetarians
> not only don't have an ethical problem with destroying eggs, tadpoles,
> frogs, snakes, lizards, and whatever else gets killed in rice production,
> but they are OPPOSED to anyone even pointing out that they are!
This is an evasion of the point.
Ethical vegetarians usually do think there is some sort of presumption
against killing sentient animals. You have no reason to think anyone
here is opposed to people pointing out that sentient animals are killed
in the course of rice production. Some people here think that Diderot's
account of the matter distorts the truth to some extent and are
responding accordingly.
I was simply pointing out that eggs are not and never have been
sentient. If it significantly affects the calculation to take eggs into
account, he should make explicit that he's doing so, which he didn't.
If you think that the "5 amphibians per square foot" figure can only be
justified by counting eggs, then you're basically admitting that the
figures are being inflated in a misleading way.