rick wrote:
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > rick wrote:
> >> "Dave" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > rick wrote:
> >> > [snip]
> >> >> >> How do I know? because I know the farmer that is
> >> >> >> raising
> >> >> >> them.
> >> >> >> I can drive by and see them in the fields anytime I
> >> >> >> like.
> >> >> >> I
> >> >> >> know
> >> >> >> how he raises them.
> >> >> >> Not really. Organic does not mean pesticide free dave.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > No but organic standards do impose restrictions on the
> >> >> > range
> >> >> > of chemicals that may be used and also on the
> >> >> > circumstances
> >> >> > under which they may be used. Also just because organic
> >> >> > does
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > mean *cide free and you don't know any farms who grow
> >> >> > *cide free veggies does not mean *cide free veggies do
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > exist.
> >> >> ====================
> >> >> I can assure you they are more rare than grass-fed beef and
> >> >> free-range eggs.
> >> >
> >> > Sure, you can get grass fed beef in my country, although a
> >> > portion
> >> > of this is almost certainly hay and sileage since our
> >> > climate
> >> > is not
> >> > really warm enough for high quality, fresh grass, year
> >> > round.
> >> > Also
> >> > there is no such thing as a grass fed label. You can not
> >> > walk
> >> > down
> >> > the meat aisle of any supermarket I am aware of and purchase
> >> > beef labelled as grass-fed. You have to purchase direct from
> >> > the farm.
> >> > I don't believe they are any easier to get hold of than
> >> > *cide
> >> > free
> >> > veggies.
> >> >
> >> >> Organic pesticides are not less toxic, and have fewer
> >> >> restrictions on them than synthetic ones.
> >> >
> >> > Who told you that?
> >>
> >> http://www.cgfi.org/materials/key_pu...oxic_Tools.pdf
> >
> > That site certainly provides food for thought although it is
> > worth
> > noting that, like most sources including many that I quote, the
> > CGFI does have an agenda. The claims made against organic
> > agriculture are worth looking into. In the meanwhile here is
> > another
> > quote, admittedly from a source with a very strong agenda.
> >
> > "The use of these pesticides is not widespread and they
> > are only applied to a narrow range of crops, mainly top
> > fruit and potatoes. Almost all other organic arable farming
> > in the UK has no need, and no possibility, of using pesticides.
> > No herbicides are permitted. They are used in small
> > quantities on Soil Association farms and accounted for
> > 0.4 per cent of total UK pesticide in 2003."
> > http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/848d689047cb466780256a6b00298980/ff83a83e9c9e75ea80256e3600609101!OpenDocument
> >
> > It occured to me that this statistic was meaningless without
> > reference to the per cent total of UK crop production that
> > organic production accounted for so I did a quick google and
> > found an article on the BBC website that said less than 3
> > per cent of agricultural production in the UK was organic.
> > The implication is that at least in the UK organic uses less
> > pesticides on average. It seems reasonable to suppose
> > that the organic movement is tainted by a prejudice against
> > the synthetic but my current impression remains favourable
> > overall, pending further research.
> ===============================
> Then you weren't reading for comprehension. Organic farms use
> more pesticides
> per operations than farmes that use synthetic ones. If all
> sythetics were eliminated
> the increase in pesticides used would be massive. In place of
> one or two sprays using
> amsll amounts per acre, you'd end up with 5 to 8 sprays of up to
> 10-20 times more
> pesticide amounts.

Although your site acknowledged that certain organic methods
reduced the needs for crops it dismissed them as not very
effective and proceeded to ignore them in favour of making
the simplistic assumption that in switching to organic farming
farmers would simply replace synthetic *cides with organic
cides. The statistics I found on the website of the Soil Association,
a certification body for organic farming in the UK, are at odds
with this analysis.

"They are used in small quantities on Soil Association farms
and accounted for 0.4 per cent of total UK pesticide in 2003"

Yes, my source has an agenda and should be read sceptically
but so does yours!